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New Year's Eve ended early for several hundred people at Stuart Street club
By adamg on Sat, 01/01/2011 - 7:27pm
Boston Police report it took officers and fire inspectors more than an hour to evacuate Rise, a private club at 306 Stuart St. late last night after detectives and fire inspectors found serious overcrowding, fire hazards and possible underage drinking.
Police say a DJ initially refused to stop playing music after police decided to shut the place down and that one of the club's owners vowed to a detective, "I will have your job by Monday."
Police say they initially were drawn to the club by a series of un-permitted barriers the club had put on Stuart Street for crowd control, which they said made it difficult for other people to navigate the street. Once inside, however, they counted roughly 800 patrons in a club licensed for only 292:
While inside the club, detectives observed upwards of fifty patrons who were underage and appeared to be under the influence of alcohol. Moreover, officers observed several nip bottles of alcohol strewn throughout the club. A check of the club’s permits showed a Boston Fire Department Permit and an Inspectional Certificate both to be expired. Consequently, the Fire Permit was seized on the scene.
In addition to the above, Boston Fire officials, while inspecting the location, observed several fire hazards including exposed wires, exposed outlets and flammable decorations hanging from ceilings throughout the club.
The next step for the club are appearances before the Mayor's Office of Consumer Affairs and the Boston Licensing Board, which have the power to suspend its licenses.
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Comments
Rise doesn't actually have an
Rise doesn't actually have an alcohol license. One of the reasons Rise can operate after 2am (it's an after-hours club) is that it's members-only and doesn't serve alcohol.
Thanks for the clarification
They still need to answer for the police/fire citations, which typically go to hearings before the two licensing boards.
The police are liars
That club cannot hold 800 people even if it tried. If you've ever been to it you would know this is the fact. When this club opened in 1998, the police staged a "raid" and subsequently one officer claimed that he had been cornered by shirtless men who tried to use a plastic penis on the officers. The club owners initiated a lawsuit and Internal Affairs investigated. In the end, the police refused to stand by the allegation.
Rise has quietly and safely operated since, but obviously the police still feel they can lie with impunity about it.
"That club cannot hold 800
"That club cannot hold 800 people even if it tried. If you've ever been to it you would know this is the fact." AGREE!!!
i agree. i have been to the
i agree. i have been to the events that this group hosts in the past, when it has been fairly crowded, and know for a fact there was no where near 800. in fact, the number even seemed less than i normally expect. i would venture to guess that (indoors) there was not much more than 200 at most. also, judging by the reporting it sounds like they just gave a random number, since it last time i checked it takes awhile to count out 800 people.
Did the BPD use overcapacity as an excuse to 86 the party?
I'm curious why the BPD has the authority to "shut it down" when the issue they cite is "the club appeared to be dangerously overcrowded." Are they not accountable for making an accurate estimate if they're going to use the estimate as a basis for interfering with a private party held in a place authorized to have private parties?
I see from other comments that no one is buying their estimate as an accurate assessment. Their use of authority in this situation seems to be based on an arbitrary "fact" and that, at the very least, makes them unaccountable for their use of law enforcement authority. In other words, if they were challenged in a court of law on the factual basis for their estimate (which they use as a reason to evacuate the private club) they would lose and be discredited. It doesn't matter though because they are not accountable like you and me.
In this case no one died, people had their good times (pursuit of happiness) curtailed by the government but the story is the same. The BPD will not be held accountable for its use of authority under any circumstance so fuck you.
BPD clearly has the authority to tell the manager to comply with the capacity limit and cite the private club with a ticket. That would be the reasonable approach.
If, after the BPDs request, the manager failed to bring attendance to authorized capacity at or below the limit (as opposed to over capacity) then the police have a valid authority to demand everyone leave. That would be the reasonable approach.
If the club permits underage people, then the police have no business bothering them unless they see them violate the law.
As I read through the "BPDnews.com PRIVATE DOWNTOWN CLUB CITED FOR OVERCROWDING" it's pretty clear they set out to shut it down, not seek compliance with the building code.
What's ironic about the BPD complaint about "series of barriers that had, without consent or proper permission, been set up on the sidewalk" is that the police use it as a complaint against club management but who can argue it wasn't a responsible thing for the club to do to keep the crowd waiting in lines? Do you get the idea that you can't win with these guys no matter what you try to do?
The BPD sees the people in the city as a annoyance who make their shifts more work than ought to be necessary.
One would think
That the city could just systematically print out a list of all premises with expired permits as they expired, and systematically issue orders to get new inspections or be ordered closed within a certain period of time.
Naw. Too many "fraternal organizations" would be in a bind then. That would be way too systematic for Boston - gotta single someone out.
Instead we use law enforcement for building code and fire permit
issues. A big waste of money.
Did all these guys in BPD (who got dressed up in their uniforms on New Years Eve like they were going to invade Poland) get time and a half or double time?
As long as there are people like you around..
The Police have some serious job security. People that live in La La land are often more dangerous than the gangbangers or armed robbers.
They get time and a half though, and they don't have a choice. They are forced to work.
suck my
dick pete
Everyone knows
It is a felony to be 18, 19, or 20 - punishable by death in some circumstances!
Unless you are a cop's kid drinking in the woods every weekend. That's what you are supposed to be doing!
Forget the overcrowding for a second
The club also, allegedly, had expired permits and "exposed wires, exposed outlets and flammable decorations hanging from ceilings throughout the club."
Now add back in the overcrowding AND all the empty nips bottles. Even if it wasn't 800 people, even if it was only 400 people, what would have happened if a fire broke out - especially with the cattle barriers out front?
Flammable fucking decorations hanging from the ceiling? Are you kidding me? There's a reason police and fire enforcement people in Boston are sensitive to this sort of thing - located just two blocks away.
the BFD
didn't order the club cleared the BPD did. In fact the BPD arrived after the club was cleared or so says someone below. To me, it's pretty clear from the BPDnews that starting with the sidewalk barriers, which they report about as if they pose a significant and unmanageable risk/danger (when they are arguably a good idea not a bad one) that BPD went in looking to shut it down as opposed to asking the manager to comply.
"or so says someone below"
What about the guy who said there were 700-900 people there with a lot of alcohol and drugs? Should we believe that guy and call up the DEA?
Ask the manager to comply? Do you think they called in the swat team and dropped through without telling anyone?
No building inspectors are working during this time and the police have the authority to enforce any of these fire, building, sanitation or whatever other violations were going on there.
Standard procedure
Rise wasn't singled out for this treatment.
Whenever police find what they consider a violation outside (in this case, the barriers, in other cases, it can be something as simple as people milling about or more severe, such as fistfights out front), they go inside to do a "licensed premises inspection."
You'll also notice the BPDNews account specifically mentions detectives. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were from the BPD's license-inspection unit (which may have a different name; my mind is going), which specializes in violations of liquor and entertainment license issues, and which typically has detectives out on nights with potential for problems, such as Friday/Saturdays and New Year's Eve.
Umm...
You are swallowing that post on BPDNews hook line and sinker. You do realize that is how the BPD gets their version out? If you are willign to concede the 800 person number is an exagerration, then we must also wait before taking anything in that BPD post as serious as well.
Exposed wires are not a fire hazard, every business and club has them. Wires run to computers, speakers etc. The police are simply trying to paint a very bad portrait of a club the had no business disrupting. Further, it is the purview of the Fire Department, not the BPD to investigate fire safety and we've yet to see anything come from the FD. Whatever the case I wouldn't trust the statement on BPD news as anything close to reality.
If the Coconut Grove fire and the Station Night Club fire down
in Warwick, RI six years ago, and the Hotel Vendome fire, back in the late 1970's, all of which killed upward of a hundred people are any indication, maybe the inspectors and police learned an important lesson from those catastrophes and cracked down somewhat on overcrowding, as well as underage drinking, which is another issue, which is a good thing. If the Rise Club doesn't have sprinklers, it's not complying with the safety requirements to have them. Had the Coconut Grove and the Station Nightclub down in Warwick, RI had sprinklers, lives would've been saved.
Thanks Miki!
:o)
RISE has sprinklers
The owners installed them after the Station fire, and they did it even before the new sprinkler law went into effect!
Who said anything about no
Who said anything about no sprinklers? Why are you saying such idiotic things?
Bizarro World
Because sprinklers automatically make everything okay - even when highly flammable foam on the ceiling spreads a fire in an overcrowded room when everybody tries to exit through the door they came in, silly.
Um, maybe not.
(Simulation data suggest that people would have had more time to escape the Station night club fire had the place had sprinklers, but possibly not enough time to get all 300 people out because of the width of the door they chose to head to. The overcrowded Coconut Grove lacked working exits and had a revolving door at the front, in addition to using a flammable refrigerant and flammable decorations.)
Check your data
SwirlyGrrl, you seem to have access to all sorts of data and information.
Perhaps you can confirm my belief that there have been no US fatalities in buildings equipped with sprinklers. Property damage, yes, but no fatalities.
As you point out, all other things being equal, the point of sprinklers is to give folk time to exit a building. It does not grant a magical get-out-of-jail card to knuckleheads.
Likely true
However, most places that bother to put in sprinklers don't use sound-insulating foam with the fuel loading of napalm as a building material.
No, SwirlyGrrl, I never applied that sprinklers
make safety/building code violations OK. I do think that they can and do save lives, and give people a better chance to escape being incinerated in a toxic burning building.
You're wrong about the Vendome fire
It was a terrible tragedy because it killed nine firefighters after they had put out the fire. But it did not kill "upward of a hundred people" like the other two fires you listed. Not even close.
I stand corrected regarding the Hotel Vendome fire, Ron.
:)
Everywhere had a line last
Everywhere had a line last night, and it's doubtful the cops went and investigated all of them. It took so long to evacuate because everyone was allowed to claim their things from coat check before waiting... clearly nobody was going to leave without their stuff, since there wasn't actually a fire or anything. If not, it wouldn't have taken over an hour to evacuate.
Anyway, the club doesn't serve alcohol, and even though the bouncers are the the toughest I've seen, people are still gonna get away with sneaking nips in. "Possible underage drinking" happens everywhere. We can't let these slobs ruin it for everyone! I always come to Rise, seeing it as a safe place to party- no bar, no drinks, none of that. It's a private establishment to dance, enjoy the music, and have a good time with others who go for the same reasons (drinking not being one of them).
Boston PD: Waste of tax
Boston PD: Waste of tax dollars? I think so. I'm sure you might feel that way after reading this.
Why would we want to spend our hard earned tax dollars on sending 40+ police officers to raid a club that doesn't even serve alcohol?
The answer is - WE DON'T!
And on top of that, RISE was operating what was probably the SAFEST 18+ New Years Eve event in all of Boston with over 30 hired security and event staff on duty.
How many kids are drinking in houses, college dorms, etc. that might not even be 18+ and certainly don't have the supervision of 30+ security staff present. How many kids have gotten drunk or high and jumped off of rooftops in Allston alone? ha... and they are worried about RISE on NYE - give me a break.
As someone mentioned, RISE couldn't fit 600 at once if it tried, let alone 800! I, like many others (our 800 witnesses ;), observed the RISE staff STRICTLY controlling a line outside and NOT letting people into their club throughout the night even when the club was starting to look empty on the 2nd floor and definitely room for twice as many on the 3rd floor - just to obey the laws of Boston.
Then why did Boston PD attempt to RAID this club?
Rumors got out about how fun and crazy the 18+ parties have been and Boston PD was convinced that having this much fun or attention without drugs or alcohol was impossible. Boston PD being sued by RISE for their last blunder, RISE's growing popularity and the PD's latest failed attempts to have the club shut down are all the reasons why the our "city's finest" collaborated and thought NYE would be the perfect time to shut RISE down once and for all.
The Boston PD had a plan to bust this place and they were so upset when they entered the club and saw there was no reason to be there, that they had to INVENT reasons to be there - like antagonizing patrons, swearing and yelling at anyone that wasn't a police officer, scouring the entire venue only to come up with a couple of kids that "MAY" have had a drink (on NYE lol) and "a few nips". I've never seen anything like it... In this day and age, I would consider finding a few nips and a few kids smelling like alcohol a HUGE win for Boston and it's community at an 18+ venue!
Also, city of Boston - wake up! If there is overcrowding for basically the only 18+ nightclub operating on NYE, does that tell you something? Let's give our 18+ crowd more options! HELLO! - Boston area has more colleges than any other city in the world - and they leave it up to RISE to be the only 18+ functioning venue on NYE for a dance party? some things need to change for this "COLLEGE TOWN".
After Boston Police checked every refrigerator and found only water, checked the coat check and found only coats, and found 1 floor of the 2 floor club half empty - I felt embarrassed to be living in a city of completely incompetent POLICE.
If anything, the Boston PD should probably write an apology letter to RISE and all of the MAYBE 300 patrons in the club and the other 100 waiting outside in line for ruining their first day of 2011. Also, if any of you that read this are eligible to vote when you do vote, we clearly don't need as many officers on duty for "raids" as we are currently paying for - especially with the "RAID ATTEMPT" on RISE an 18+ club that doesn't even serve alcohol LOLLLLLL - so let's keep that in mind.
Boston PD = The Jealous Nanny?
You've said it! Agree 100%.
You've said it! Agree 100%. There was extra space to walk around in there the entire night, no way was it overcrowded. As everyone was leaving, countless cops were standing around doing absolutely nothing. And especially your point about having so much fun without serving alcohol- I always go to Rise sober, and not once have I had a bad time. It's always such a great environment, and the regulars there would agree.
I'm certainly no apologist for the BPD...but
given that the murder rate was sky high in this town last year, I would think they have a little more on their minds than spoiling the fun of some club that will come and go in a few years, like dozens before it. I would think the city inspectors who like a little grease with their coffee would care more about some place for terminal hipsters to jump around than the BPD.
Also; "Rumors got out about how fun and crazy the 18+ parties have been and Boston PD was convinced that having this much fun or attention without drugs or alcohol was impossible."?
George Regan...is that you? You minx.Only you could write something that stupid.
Actually the murder rate was
Actually the murder rate was slightly higher then the year before, and nowhere near the all time high. The number of violent crimes involving handguns stayed relatively the same.
So in other words people shooting guns got a little luckier this year, while victims got a little unluckier.
But those are facts provided from data, and it's much easier to make shit up.
REPLY in response to Boston PD: Waste of tax
I would also have to agree! I am a regular that goes to Club Rise all the time. The members that run the club are well aware of how many people are in the club hence why they have barriers outside. Even in past events that I've gone to they would stop the crowd outside until alot of people would leave from inside that were going home. I myself and many other witnesses saw police officers starting arguments with people who lost there "coat ticket" (so that they could get there things and then leave) Also when it comes to evacuating the building did not take over an hour . And about over 800 people ? I was on the 3rd floor and the place was half empty. So that number is completely false. Of course the Boston PD wanted to "raid attack" Rise because has always been a safe environment for the "college students" in Boston. Rise doesn't even serve alcohol to begin with so that's was completely uncalled for. The majority of the crowd was even "under the influence" to begin with. You don't have to be intoxicated to have a good time at Rise. The security at Rise is well aware of everything going on.
How was it the safest party?
With expired fire permits?
What a bunch of cry babies. I'm sure the Sgt. in charge is worried about the club owner taking his job by Monday!
What is their problem?
Sounds like witnesses are lining up to point to vogonic misconduct here.
Why would the cops not like an 18+ venue? Did they fail in attempts to extort overtime shifts working security and not have a liquor license to fall back on? Is it the automatic assumption that being a young person having fun is a crime - at least a young person socializing and not hanging out in somebody's basement drinking like they did?
Sounds like it isn't the 18 year olds that really need to grow up. It isn't "whining" to demand that you be treated with the respect due to you as a citizen legally conducting your own affairs.
"Witnesses?"
Sounds more like a club owner is lining up email addresses to allege misconduct.
From what I read, 18+ wasn't the issue. It was a huge crowd with illegal barriers on a sidewalk already narrowed by snow in front of a club that hadn't been checked by a fire inspector. Shutting that down suits me fine.
Seriously, Swrrly, you aren't falling for this guy's bs are you?
I forgot you were there and you know everything.
How do you even know it was the cops who initiated the whole investigation? Do you know what cops even care about? I'm sure A-4 hired extra people on overtime on New Years Eve because they wanted to harrass some 19 year olds that were just being safe as possible. Ever seen any of the drug and gang unit reports on who goes to underage clubs and what they find there and what they hear from parents whose kids they don't want to go there? Or are you just going on what some whiny kids say on the internet?
Gimme a break.
Persistent patterns don't alarm you
Given adequate testimony by eye witnesses, it really doesn't alarm you that every time the BPD gets active in force there are persistent and troubling accounts of unprofessional conduct?
One doesn't need to be there to put all the testimony together - both with this incident, and others - that the BPD needs a bit of training in contact with the public?
Swirrly
accounts of unprofessional conduct? You mean the 4 anonomous bloggers on UHUB who might be the same person? Do you also know that there were hundreds of other arrests over the last weekend all over eastern massachusetts that did not result in accusations of unprofessional conduct er.... I mean anonymous internet whines?
And it is clear to me that you have no idea what adequate testimony by eye witnesses reall is. It is like going up and asking anyone who gets arrested if they committed the crime or not. Of course they are going to say they didn't do it. The sad part is, people like you believe them.
Stop basing your opinions on what you read on the internet and again, gimme a break.
Well, if it's impossible to
Well, if it's impossible to physically put 800 people in the building, and BPD states that was whats going on, that's going to raise some eyebrows and puts into question the rest of the report. Police are not supposed to exaggerate, or lie as public servants.
Finding out that the owner also currently has a lawsuit pending against improper actions from the BPD adds to it. He got his, didn't he!
Then there's the fact that BPD didn't go in during the day, and shutter the doors. Why wait until late into the night, with the place packed, and use 40 officers to kick everyone out? Especially when it could have been done with 3 before the place even opened.
Something doesn't smell right about it.
Another question, would they ever do such a thing to say House of Blues? Every violation put up against them has resulted in a citation, and dealt with later at meetings.
Sorry, Pete
Sorry, Pete.
I usually value your contributions on this forum, but this is bullshit. Pretty sure that we can't just let the BPD go around making numbers and facts up on their police reports.
2 things Marc
1. You and I haven't seen the poice report.
2. We are not sure the BPD used these numbers as "facts" that would hold up in a court of law. Not having a fire permit would be a fact, gussing the amount of people in the club would be a guess and it would be indicated that way in the police report. How else could you figure that out?
1 Thing Pete
The club already won an injunction against the BPD for inappropriate harassment and has a lawsuit pending.
Different story
That was for shutting off music when there was no complaints. Kind of a different situation.
"inappropriate harassment"
Sounds like this is more of the same.
Different story
That was for shutting off music when there was no complaints. Kind of a different situation.
I assume the Boston Police Spokeperson
does not invent facts for the press release but culls them from the incident report and/or asks the officers. (Just how long would a professional spokesperson be paid to write press release statements with incorrect citations of fact to the public which are used by the press? press releases "press" get it? )
Anything that appears in the Boston police Spokesperson's press release is expressly released to communicate facts about the incident to the public.
Claiming that the incident report is the only record and not the press release is a fallacy and a lame excuse.
Press Release as Factual Record
Anonymous, this has to be the dumbest thing you've ever typed. I know your head is spinning off your shoulders right now with rhetorical questions and question-begging logical fallacies, but -- seriously, man. Pull it together.
you're probably right
the spokesperson makes up a whole new story
guessing the population in a club would not be a fact.
Just like guessing someones age wouldn't be.
The point about the report is that we don't know who wrote it, who approved it, who contributed to it, etc.
The person who wrote the report could have said "after conferring with several other officers, we came to the conclusion that the club was over populated. We estimated over 800 people."
etc, etc.
And again, I'm not saying the police did or didn't make something up. I'm just saying police reports usually clarify more about the facts of an investigation than a blurb written by an intern would. I know that is all we have to go on right now, but I'm not going to condem the owner of the club or the officer who wrote the report from what I read in a press release.
evacuated "dangerously overcrowded" 800+ patrons
They used police authority based on their assessment the place was "dangerously overcrowded" with "in excess of approximately 800 patrons." If it can be shown those assessments were not true but pretense, or could be considered unreasonable by a reasonable person, the officers may have a problem.
Upon entering the establishment, detectives promptly noted that the club appeared to be dangerously overcrowded. Of greatest concern was the potential for harm in the event of a fire emergency. Given the fact that the establishment was clearly overcrowded, it was determined that the chance of safely evacuating such a location in the event of a fire emergency would be severely hampered and hindered. Officers estimated a crowd in excess of approximately 800 patrons.
guessing
How many marbles in the jar?
Nope
There were definitely not 800 people inside
Observing
Someone explain to me how an observation can decide if someone is 21+ or not. Do cops have the ability to look at people and guess ages? Because if so, that's incredible.
And considering the club is 18+, because they do not serve alcohol, why does it matter if those attending were 19, 23 or 35?
I'll say!
I've been legally drinking for a decade and I often get mistaken for being underage.
yea and
somtimes a guy i bet/
Ahh... a new year! A new set of Billings' posts!
A whole new year of ignorant, bigoted comments from our resident guy who is too stupid for either the Herald, Free Republic, or Stormfront forums. You stay classy, Billings, every forum needs someone like you, you poltroon!
Why is that an insult?
Is there something wrong with being male or something? You aren't one of those misandrists are you Billings?
My grandmother used to take her brother's clothes and go into town after school in overalls and boots. Being mistaken for a guy was the whole point!
And, yes, I really wonder about that "twenty one o-vision" these cops claim to have. Especially when my old enough to drink is old enough to drink and then some and I still sometimes get carded.
How the cops usually ID the young'uns
Simply eyeballing them isn't enough to make any sort of legal case, so they ask them for IDs. And in many cases, that isn't enough, either, since the IDs turn out to be faked/borrowed, so the police keep asking questions until the kiddies admit their ages.
I obviously wasn't at Rise on NYE, so I have no idea what the cops actually did that night, but the above is what they typically report doing at the licensing-board hearings I attend.
You missed half the equation
This is a dry club. They don't serve alcohol.
Thus the age of the patrons is completely irrelevant - they have to be IN POSSESSION OF ALCOHOL in order to violate any laws (since it is a dry club that does not serve or permit alcohol to be consumed).
Being there and being under 21 isn't a crime - it is an 18+ club. Neither is being over 21 and going there after having a couple of drinks somewhere else.
True, but ...
Clubs also have an obligation under city regulations and state law to keep things under control on their premises (and on the sidewalks directly surrounding their premises). If police are finding lots of empty nips and lots of apparently inebriated under-20-somethings, that's enough for a citation. What punishment, if any, goes with the citation is then up to whichever licensing board handles the infraction (or both of them; Boston having a truly wonderful and incredibly efficient holdover from the early 1900s that often requires two sets of hearings on the same incidents).
say and do means
nothing more than your audience requires. A couple of weeks ago my 17 year-old was surrounded by four undercover cops at Ashmont station as he stood alone on the platform. He had a can of 4 Loko in his back pocket which they took, while proceeding to pat him down without any reason; once they discovered he had no gun (responding to a report of a white kid with a gun they determined he did not hold) handed him back the can, saying "this will be illegal soon."
They never asked for an ID, nor considered where he had obtained the beverage, but lost the opportunity to seize his fake ID (parents on that) or discover what local liquor store provided him with the alcohol.
The police behave differently depending on the situation--had this occurred in West Roxbury, or your other westerly neighborhoods, my guess is they would have asked for ID, but in Dorchester the absence of a firearm is enough to allow you to proceed as usual.
Sadly there is a different type of policing inside the hot-spots labeled by the department, and I think you should consider the variability of police response beyond what you hear at the licensing board, or anywhere else for that matter. I don't know about Rise and underage drinking, but it is easy for me to imagine the BPD targeting one spot instead of another in its quest to demonstrate compliance without due diligence.
Here is the problem with people
You say he was padded down for no reason but then you say they were responding to someone with a gun?
I don't get it.
yep, my truth and where do you live?
I know how you rise to the occasion around police issues...perhaps it is hard for you to consider the facts of the urban life of teenagers in this city circa 2011. Or in certain parts of the city.
My son is a Boston Latin senior,(780 math/720 English SAT, in case that type of data matters), plays the cello in the orchestra, volunteers his time and does not carry a gun. Ever. But we have lived in Dorchester through the entirety of our kids rise through Boston public schools K-12 (first kid graduated '07 BLS) and remain residents of this city if on the wrong side of the avenue (as is expressed to us by every officer who has ever responded to issues in our neighborhood--common refrain "you know where you live, right?").
Are you questioning the fact that a random call was placed and my son happened to be in the area and then was randomly searched by officers?
My point is that BPD carries its weight in light of, as one might suggest, the lowest hanging fruit--and whether that is my child at a train station or patrons of a club--both are subjectively being scrutinized by the desire to close the call, valid or not.
You don't know criminal procedure then.
When a call goes out for a white male for a gun, and police see a white or hispanic male under the age in the same area, they can frisk that person as long as they can articulate some facts and circumstances which may lead them to believe that this person may have a gun or had a gun. Random calls for guns happen all the time, but a "random" search would be somewhere where there wasn't a call for a gun.
The difference between your son and the club is that as far as we know, someone actually called the police in the case of your son for what could have been a very dangerous crime.
And did you say your son had a fake ID?
Heard the guy got suspended
Heard the guy got suspended dont know the particulars.
The BPD should be ashamed.
What they've written on their site is so full of untruths and half truths its astonishing. It's practically slanderous. There were no more than a couple of hundred people in the club.
The police DID NOT call the fire department in until the club was evacuated and when the FD arrived they were unable to do a count of their own because it was too late to do so. Not a accident I am sure. The BPD did not want the FD there to confirm because the BPD is lying and intended to lie.
What I found disturbing is that the Sgt in charge was screaming at the patrons that they weren't "Wearing enough cloths". Are they the vice squad now? The whole incident was shameful.
Thanks
interesting.
I was there.
Probably about 700-900 people there. Lots of alchohol and a good amount of drug use. Good time.
lol
yeah you were the girl not wearing enough clothes right?
Either you cant count or your
Either you cant count or your werent there.
"I was there." LOL
"I was there." LOL
HOW MANY PRIVATE CLUBS ARE THERE
The burning question is how many after hour private clubs are there,who regulates them, and who do they pay off,
How do teenagers get access to a private club that you have to be a member of.
This wasn't even a regular
This wasn't even a regular rise after hours event. This was an 18+ (but almost entirely under 21) event thrown by the same guy who was arrested a few years ago for his illegal all-ages all-night ice cream shop party. [http://www.universalhub.com/node/23578]
Rise is the only club of its type in Boston and has made the risky move of departing from its historically successful members only afterhours (1-6am) style events that tend to attract a 21+ crowd to offering 9pm-1am open to all events that target an 18+ crowd.
Dr. Samuel Johnson's right about Olson Johnson being right!
The anon (not verified)'s are right!! IS this the beginning of the police state here? Will they have to go all Stonewall on the cretins that populate the BPD? This just screams out as a new cause for the tea party! Who will speak for the speed, x, and coke dealers that just need to feed their kids? Who will speak for the club owners that think it's alright to up the cover to $50.00 on Pride weekend?
CLUB KIDS!! TAKE TO THE STREETS!! (when you wake up, of course, and after breakfast and a couple of Djarum's).
Also, anon (not verified), you might want change your writing style when you come into this forum trying to be 3 different people offering a full throated (pun intended)defense of a stupid shithole like Rise.
800??
These cops do have balls. It would definitely take guts to suggest that there were 800 people in that club Friday night. There is no way the place would fit over 300 people between the two floors and one of those two floors was over half empty. I was chilling with my girlfriend on the nearly empty floor, having a fine, peaceful time as were all others around us. All of a sudden the music disappears and the place is being evacuated as though someone had just been murdered. It's a good thing they let all those 18-20 year olds out on to the street, though. I mean, Rise doesn't serve alcohol so where in the world were they going to find it? It was better for those young people to be running around the street on NYE. Thumbs up, Boston PD!! All people running meth labs can sleep soundly knowing you're too busy busting up harmless parties to bother with them.
crowd estimates
last time I read a story about an event at the common (think it was the hemp fest?)it clearly stated that the BPD doesn't do crowd estimates anymore...unless it suits them!
Fire regulations
There's a difference between doing a count of some amorphous crowd on the Common and figuring out whether a club has more people in it than allowed under its occupancy permit. I'm sure you can figure out what that is.
Interview with a co-owner
I talked to Darrin Morda, who co-owns Rise, tonight. He paints a rather different picture of what happened.
That's nice that you actually
That's nice that you actually talked to the other side, because I was incredibly disappointed to read you write:
"Flammable fucking decorations hanging from the ceiling? Are you kidding me? There's a reason police and fire enforcement people in Boston are sensitive to this sort of thing - located just two blocks away."
It's a shame you so quickly took the account of one side as the gospel. Especially when that one side has every incentive to lie.
Successful raid on dangerous location = overtime pay approved.
A police force that sits around not looking for reasons to justify their job is a police force that gets a lower budget.
Coconut Grove - HOW DESPERATE to bring that up?
Are some of your clowns serious in bringing up the Coconut Grove? Talk about outdated, moronic scare tactics. Might as well mention Nazi Germany and Polio while you are at it….LOL
As for Pete Nice….open your mouth and take the BPD report – hook, line and sinker…what a maroon.
a) there is NO WAY you could fit 400 people in RISE – let alone 800. If that is part of a report that the police claim to “stand by 100%” – the rest of their statements are null and void. Just like if you find 100 pound of weed in an ILLEGAL search….ALL OF IT becomes inadmissible. Period.
b) The distance from the club to the corner of “Arlington and Columbus” is no more than 200 feet. If that is their measure of a massive line, they should get out their ruler and go back to remedial math class. It would take less than 100 people to take up that space. Yet another “on the record” statement that shows how stupid the BPD is.
c) For argument sake, lets assume the line was longer than that (although it is not physically possible) but lets give the meat heads at the BPD and Pete Nice (lol) the benefit of the doubt.
If a club owner had a massive line at 11:40 on NYE – that alone actually show RESTRAINT in their entrance policy. I mean think about it for a second – wouldn’t a club owner that was intent on over packing their club would allow paying customers to miss the ball drop by keeping them lined up in the cold?
Answer: Only a club owner that has the comfort and safety of his patrons in mind.
BPD is ALL WET here. They have had it out for Rise from the beginning..and this was another chance to shake them down. Sad thing is that RISE will win this hearing and win in court and NO NEWSPAPERS will bother to cover that….so score one for soiling their reputation with the corrupt BPD.
right down the center too
Maybe Bay Windows and The Globe or the Tea Party Newsletter won't but Adam will if you give him a heads-up, right down the center too with respect for facts.
Hey, CLUB KID!!
Calling posters names for expressing opinions based on experience is no way to win people over on your points. As someone who has seen the business end of both a billy bat and a Yellow Pages, courtesy of the BPD, I have no love and am not always quick to defend them.
HOWEVER..let's face facts here. The club owner has stated publicly that there was maybe 300 people in the club, yet capacity is 292, that's OVERCROWDING, no? If there was fire in the club that night, can you honestly say that there would not have been fatalities?
Also, let's face another fact that seems to be overlooked in all this. We're talking about an after hours joint here,not the YMCA. An after hours joint that any cab driver, limo driver, cop and party animal knows is a marketplace for whatever drug suits your fancy that night; coke, meth, X, weed, and even Viagra. Are you honestly going to tell me the owner of the club has no idea this shit goes on? Please.
So an asshole cop was having a bad night, and he took it out on RISE, get over it and move on. You really think any serious repercussions are going to happen to the asshole cop? Doubtful. Should the club just shut up and leave it alone? Definitely. Unless they want ISD and the BPD and BFD up their ass every weekend.And that's just the way it is in our fair city.
300 on a 292 license....GIVE ME A BREAK...LOL
8 people over capacity is overcrowding? Under what ROCK do you live dvdoff? You dont think EVERY BAR in Boston puts a few extra people in their establishment on NYE?
300 in RISE is nothing. They have 3 or 4 exits - sprinklers - and YES 10+ door staff with counter (but nice suggestion dolt)
As for what does or does not happen in any establishment in the city - the only thing any owner is responsible for is reasonable enforcement. There are drugs being done ins EVERY establishment in the city...makes no difference what time they do or do not open. Get your head out of the sand.
Maybe you should read up on Rise before you open your mouth and make yourself sound FOOLISH. Rise already took the city of Boston to court on numerous occasions, and beat them every time. Same thing will happen again here.
People like you with your outdated, prejudiced, ignorant opinons are the exact reason Boston nightlife is a joke and Boston get very few conventions and other world class events. Adults dont want to be told to go to bed at 1:45 - and so will continue to spend their dollars in NYC, Chicago etc.
2 fans!
I read up on Rise on some review sites. Here are some quotes just from Yelp. F'n hilarious. I do have to admit that people like this need a place to go and for all intents and purposes the club seems to do a good job.
one two three four
1. no links.
2. taking punitive action against the club managers is not justified by illegal drug use by patrons, under the law.
3. no one was arrested for violating the law, not one person. instead the Boston police closed the place at 11:40PM New Years Eve for code violations.
4. If its true the club had been approached in advance by the BPD to inquire if they wanted to hire a rent-a-cop and they declined, then this raid shapes up like retribution, using law enforcement authority for payback for declining to hire a moonlighting/overtime BPD officer, also called pay to play; also called illegal corruption.
Ahh...youth!
First of all, please cite all of the times Rise has taken the city to court and prevailed. I'd be curious to see how many times this has allegedly happened.
Also, I have spent more nights than I care to admit sitting in front of Rise waiting for clients. My comments are based more on their accounts than personal experience. So I don't have to read up on the place.I have listed my experience with previous after hours joints in previous posts.
We are not talking about EVERY other establishment, we're talking about Rise here, and what goes on there. Also, who do I see to score Ecstasy from at Morton's? How about H? Can I score some at L'Espalier? Who do I see for meth at the Fours? Following your flawed logic, these are establishments in this city and as you say EVERY establishment has drugs available in the bathrooms,no? And who decides what "reasonable enforcement" is, you? Drug dealers go to places like Rise because that's where the customers are.
Also, 300 at Rise is not "nothing", it's capacity. And your flawed logic says that as long as everyone else does it on NYE, then it's alright for Rise to do it, right? Please also cite how I am prejudiced? Where were the racist sentiments in any of my posts?
Also, as someone who is in the travel business here, I can cite meetings and conventions that take place here all the time, can you? What's your travel background? How many medical, financial and philanthropic conventions does this city get in a year? Please cite by group and convention center, if you would.
And to your final point, adults don't want to be told when to go to bed. Kids get hopped up all night on speed or X, jump around to the throbbing beats of whatever the hot DJ is at the moment,touch each other in the most annoying ways possible, throw up in the alley, then go home and go to bed at 6 AM. Guess which one I am?
You sat in a limo outside of
You sat in a limo outside of Rise, so you think you are qualified to speak about what happens inside?
Yeah – I sat in the club seats at the Celtics game last night, so CLEARLY I know all there is to know about how to play in the NBA.
WHAT A MORON.
Well, person who has no argument...
Are you going to tell me that there are no drug sales at ALL in Rise?
Address that point before you start calling people names.
Your arguments and name calling , as foolish as they may be, seem to come from a little kid who fears that the playground is going to be shutdown..so where and the rest of my little club kidders going to go now? Boo fucking hoo.
We're not talking about the local malt shop that's been there for 50 years being shut down. Also, the owner does not impress me as "Pop", the beloved owner of the malt shop, who has always looked out for the kids. We're talking about a place that kids can go to dance and roll. Where they pay a yearly fee for the privilege or $20.00 at the door and there isn't even a fucking band! Just whatever the hot DJ is at the moment, playing recorded music! As much as you spoiled little babies whine about the bad old BPD and how they are nothing but a bunch of buzzkillers, let's see you put on a gun everyday and go out with the knowledge that this could be your last day on Earth. No, you're too busy stealing music on BitTorrent and worrying about how you can convince your parents that you really, really need money for new ink.
The Malt Shop? Talk about a dinosaur...lol
There are people in EVERY BAR and CLUB in the city sneaking in drugs. Hell, there are people on every T train - at every Red Sox game - in every college classroom - and every workplace doing something they should not be doing. Are you seriously trying to base some kind of point on a luscious point like that?
Rise is NOT going to be shut down. Not even close. They are going to be open next weekend, and when their day in court comes they will once again make the Boston Police look foolish and win their case.
Meanwhile you can be sure to head to bed by 11 on a weekend night, like you usually do after spending the night talking about topical subjects like the Coconut Grove, the Naked-I Lounge, and what Governor Ed King is going to do during the forthcoming Tall Ships / Bicentennial celebration.
Way to keep your finger on the pulse of the city DVDOFF...LMAO.
Hey I have a fan!
I still haven't read the report either, I assume my bizzaro twin hasn't either (although I'm not surprised people think new blurbs done by the news staff makes a legal report.)
If the club owner had the comfort and safety of his patrons in mind, why not hire a detail cop and have him stand at the door? Or how about have some fire permits? Or how about someone stand at the front with a counter like most bars do on New Years or on busy Saturday nights?
But I have a random question. If this place is a private club, and the owner says it had about 300 people in it (with a capacity of 300+/-. Why would there even be a line? Did you invite more then the capacity? How does that even work?
And if the BPD had it in for RISE from the beginning, why did it take them 12 years to take some sort of action, and action that wasn't even that serious (a few code violations). You can bet if the police wanted to, they would have had some undercover cops go in there and you could easily have 2 to 3 drug arrests a night, and probably unlimited alcohol arrests. The fact is the cops turned a blind eye to this place (which probably wasn't even that bad) for 12 years.
And how can RISE win a hearing when the owner said they had 300 people there with an expired fire permit?
Most of the whiners here probably aren't old enough to
remember the Astor Theater. Class? Anyone? It was a moviehouse on Tremont that showed some of the greatest movies ever. When it closed, they turned it into an after hours joint, It was wild! The only place I've ever been shot at in my life!
Well, kids, the BPD didn't like what was going on there and they had the place closed down toot suite, if I recall correctly. So all of you who feel victimized by the BPD and think they have it out for this poor little club that only wants provide a safe environment for college kids to roll til dawn, remember the Astor Theater. And remember, RISE has been open for 12 years, and as Pete says, if the BPD really wanted it gone it would be gone. Ask George Black. Ask Jason Kravetz.
This is all about Keeler and his history. Not the BPD at large.
What happened here was that a bad cop initiated an action against the club and then he was dishonest about it. He was dishonest because he had to be in order to justify his actions. All you ahve to do is look at his record and it all makes sense.
Frankly at this point I'm more interested in a conversation about how Keeler still has a job. Theft, Groping Women, False Records? This means that we can not take Keeler at his word and he's not qualified to be in situations like this. He shouldn't be on the force.
Why does Keeler have a job at the BPD?
good question!
Davis implemented a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for testilying on incident reports. Time to enforce it.
I remember the Astor Theatre
but never went into it. It showed mostly horror and exploitation movies while I was in college in the 1970s. By the time I returned here in 1984 it had been demolished. Loews Boston Common theatre and one of the Ritz-Carlton towers is on the site now.
CinemaTreasures has a page about the Astor.
What was it like as an 'after hours joint'? Did you really get shot there? Who are George Black and Jason Kravetz?
For a short while, some enterprising club owners thought
it would be a bright idea to use the decaying theater into an after hours joint. It ended up being a place where the worst of the worst from every project in the city went to get lit up on angel dust or whatever was available at the time. One of the 2 or 3 times I went there, some deal went bad and some kid whipped out a gun and just started shooting. I had to dive behind a couch until it was safe to come out. Nobody got hit, but it was one of the reasons the BPD shut the place down.
George Black owned a club called 9 Lansdowne at that address. He made the mistake of pissing off both the cops and the Lyons brothers at the time and all of a sudden no more 9 Lansdowne and George Black allegedly skipped town before the bent noses got to him.
Jason Kravetz owned a club on Clarendon St at the site of the old Hard Rock, called Jason's. At the time it was the glitziest club in town. Problem was, the story went, that the Jason who really owned the joint was Jason Angiulo, son of the local Don. The one day, the Angiulos go to jail and then no more Jason's.
Bottom line, you piss off the cops in this town, they will make it their mission to make your life miserable, and 9 times out of 10, there isn't a thing you can do about it.
Your point is?
I'm still trying to figure out how anything you said here has anything to do with Rise, how it is operated, etc.
Comparing Rise to some storied crack den 30 years ago is a pretty specious leap of illogic. So is your contention that police harassment of a legal business is acceptable because, well, because you think they should be able to do so.
Well...
The owners and patrons of RISE are claiming that they are victims here. The cops seem to be lying in their assessment of the crowd size here. My point is that both sides are assholes and guess which side is going to win?
My point, my dear Swirly, is that while RISE seems to be a well run club, the owners are not exactly paragons of virtue. As I pointed out earlier, we are still talking about a place that is as much of a drug supermarket as the old Astor was, it's just that as long as people are not shooting each other in the place, it's pretty much gotten a pass from the cops. The same cops, who, as Pete pointed out, could shut this place down in 10 minutes with a few properly placed undercover drug officers picking up some X in the men's room. Activities that the owners and the staff surely ignore as long as it's done discreetly.
The point is, and the examples I cited just go to show, if you own a club in this town and you want to piss off the cops here, you won't have a club here for long. And your contention that I am saying that it's alright for the cops to harass a legal business is ludicrous. RISE is not a sub shop or a clothing store, it's an after hours joint and anyone who has ever been to one knows what goes on in there, legally and illegally.
"My point is that both sides are assholes "
that would make 3 assholes (yes YOU).
What do you think it took last time to have a court decide in favor of the club owners? A good case. So the BPD has a bad case.
How you decide the club owners are assholes based on Jason Kravit's club is cognitive dissonance.
Never in my life have I seen
people so quick to leap to the defense of a nightclub.Did I say the clubowners have no case? No. Did I say that the clubowners are not the civic minded individuals that their defenders seem to think that they are? Yes.
I cited Jason Kravetz as an example of a clubowner who pissed off the cops and it was just one of the reasons that his place closed. Where did you see me call him an asshole? And my use of the term asshole in referring to the owners of Rise was based on the fact that I feel you don't charge a $20.00 cover 51 weekends of the year and then jack it up to $50.00 on Pride weekend. Only an asshole would bite one of the hands that feeds you.
Don't you worry little club kids, if Rise goes away, there will sure enough be another shithole to take it's place.
Pretty much the only thing I agree with you on is that I am an asshole. I've never denied that.
I remember Jasons..
Closed right about the time I was able to go there. Then there was Narcissus which wasn't a bad stop after a few cold ones at the Rat.
Are there any good dive bars anymore in Boston? Even the Allston ones seem to have cleaned up their act and put up 3K 50 inch TVs all over.
Ron, thanks so much for the link!!!
I had never seen that site before! What a treat! A special thanks for the shout out to Justin Freed. He was good friends with my Dad. Some of my favorite childhood memories were at his theaters, especially the Park Square, where my Dad took us to see our first Marx Bros movies. It was a great time to be a movie fan here. Between the Orson Welles, the Central Sq., the 2 Freed theaters and every one of the Sack cinemas, you never wanted for a great place to see a film. I still remember seeing "Yellow Submarine" at the Gary like it was yesterday!
"why not hire a detail cop"
lol. I guess you're getting right to the point. Someone wants a little payola.
Would have saved the club a lot of money too.
nn
I think there is a word for this
Extortion.
Fine then.
Hire a reputable security guard with a counter. If I owned a club that is bringing in tens of thousands of dollars on a busy night, I'd want some offical coverage. 4 hour detail is going to cost you $120 bucks. You could have let in 305 people then.
"reputable security guard" = BPD EXTORTION
because keeping track of the number of people that pass through the door takes a "reputable security guard" LOL ... some BPD officer and 1.5 or double time.
Is this about flag details?
Before you claim it takes someone other than who was there, you should make the case.
These bouncers have to be good.
And I bet they are good at a bar like this. And yea, you should have someone with a clicker counting how many people you have in the club. They have been doing that since I was 21. Bars do it today because they never know when a fire marshall or inspector is going to come by and count themselves.
And I think if they did hire a detail cop, none of this would have happened, unless the supervisor in charge wanted to reprimand the cop as well (which has happened).
All i have to say is people
All i have to say is people need to mind their own fucking business. Do you really have nothing better to do then complain about what others do with their free time. Going to a club is not some sub-human thing to do and they are not set up like an all you can eat drug buffet. You can find more drug and alcohol use at high schools all over the country then inside a club. I hate when people use the phrase "Club Kids" it makes me want to call you an Ignorant Hick. You go to concerts to see your favorite artists play the music you love. Thats exactly what we do, we just get to do it every weekend. Same exact thing only on a smaller scale with differnt music.
The security there are amazing. Some of the best ive seen at any club and yes ive been to quite a few places.
As for the BPD's original estimate of 942 people.....then 800 people. Of that 800, 500 of them reportedly on the first floor crammed into 1,000 square feet of space. Thats 2 square feet per person. IMPOSSIBLE. Thats probably why there was no head count taken as the patrons left and why the fire department was called after.
Someone explain to me why that many officers where needed to break up a non-alcoholic, non-agressive party? Wouldnt it have been smarter to use thoese same officers available for DUI Check Points; or on hand at one of the many Alcoholic 21+ parties that have reputations of having a violent agressive drunk crowds?
if someone even thinks about posting a reply to bitch about grammer or spelling or anything of that sort.....your a mess.
You spelled grammar wrong.
I have to admit I'd be there if I were a 19 year old today. I remember being 15 and going downtown walking around like a boob looking for something to do freezing my ass off.
Although now that I think of it, there were more places back in the day that were 18+ but only those over 21 could drink with a florescent bracelet. And I'd always be the one caught by the bouncer drinking without a dam bracelet on.
Rise will NOT BE CITED afterall...
What you got to say now Pete and Devildog :)
Cool - link?
Do you have a link to this encouraging news?
http://newsflash.bigshotmag.c
http://newsflash.bigshotmag.com/news/12315/
Incorrect
That's based on a Herald story which became outdated only a few hours after it went to press when the Fire Department decided to cite Rise for overcrowding after all.
What do I have to say?
nanny-nanny-boo-boo.