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Gentrification hits Dudley Square: 25-story residential/office tower proposed, with no affordable units in it

The Bay State Banner reports on developer Ken Guscott's plans for a building that would have commercial space on the first nine floors, apartments on floors above that and condos higher up, on land he owns across from the Dudley T stop.

Under the proposal, Guscott would not include city-mandated affordable housing units in the tower but would instead build them someplace else.

The tower would be six stories higher than Roxbury's current tallest residential structure - the Walnut Park senior housing building in Egleston Square (the round building).

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Comments

It seems like developers tend to get screamed at not doing enough of just about everything. If they opened with the city mandated levels, people would be screaming for more.

Looks like the developer is setting themselves up to allow for concessions, appease neighborhood demands, and perhaps make a few politicians look good.

Or maybe just some wishful thinking...

\o/

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At Ashmont. Does anyone know if that other complex, TOD2, ever got off the ground at Ashmont? I couldn't tell if it was serious or just a ploy by Trinity to try and push the Carruth sales by proposing an even more expensive building next door.

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Ashmont Tire is on track.

Good for Guscott in calling the city's bluff on the affordable units here. There is enough affordable units in and around Dudley to make Emma Goldman blush. More market rate makes more affordable for everyone.

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Is that the one replacing Ashmont Tire?

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Carruth condos are all sold. In fact, some have re-sold in the past year for higher prices than originally asked. The rental units have a waiting list.

Not sure what you're talking about.

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Except there is no housing being removed, destroyed or redeveloped. I get that new construction can spur "revitalization" but no one will be losing their apartment here. Housing is being added. The future is yet to be played out for the neighborhood. Economics 101.

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Given that it would go on a commercial block and all.

I was thinking more of what it will do to rents in the surrounding area but especially the symbolism of a 25-story tower with no affordable units in a neighborhood where the existing residents who have put up with the way things were for decades now have to worry about being gentrified out.

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adamg, existing residents have had to "put up with" five--count 'em, oops--seven housing projects in this neighborhood, listed in increasing distance from Dudley Square: Orchard Park, Whittier Street, Mission Hill Extension and Mission Hill Main (no redeveloped), Academy Homes I & II, and Bromley-Heath.

We can all benefit from mid-range apartments, especially when they are close to the Ridiculous Silver Line. The greater focus should be on the pricing for the condominiums on the upper floors. Will these be affordable to the middle class?

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Alice Taylor ...

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Roxbury is already home to a huge percentage of the city's stock of subsidized affordable housing and many of the residents here don't want more. There's a real demand for non luxury market rate housing so that the actual middle class has somewhere to live, and that's the market this tower is targeting.

With rents for 2 beds projected at about $2k a month, people can actually envision themselves living there. Everyone knows that development is coming to the area, but this is development that seems to have been done with the existing residents in mind.

It also doesn't hurt that this is a minority developer with a strong knowledge of the local scene. I don't know this guy, but people who do know him (the vocal neighbors who can make or break a project) seem to be generally on board with the proposal.

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"Hey honey I was thinking about moving to Dudley Square, they just put up a new apartment building".....shit no one says....

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"Hey honey I was thinking about moving to Broadway, right across from Whitey's old bar, they just put up a new apartment building".....shit no one says....

"Hey honey I was thinking about moving across the street from that old pier where Anthony's is, they just put up a new apartment building".....shit no one says....

"Hey honey I was thinking about moving to Washington Street in the South End, they just put up a new apartment building".....shit no one says....

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In none of those neighborhoods did anyone just plunk down a 25-story tower. That's not how gentrification works and it's certainly not how it worked in any of the above-mentioned neighborhoods. This one just sounds weird to me--if your goal is neighborhood transformation/domination, what good does one commercial/apartment tower do when it's surrounded by an unchanged Dudley? And yes, I know that there have been some changes but I'm not seeing the slow creep of condos and "loft" buildings or even the old school pattern of artists/gays and THEN condos and faux lofts. I may be off base but I just don't see it happening.

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Good heavens, where have you been in the last 30 years???

This is going to be fairly near the medical area. You can very easily get from there to many areas of the city.

Market rate will be most affordable for people being pushed out of other areas.

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another friendly chit-chat with you about boston, race, and gentrification with you...I'll just say that I've been in Boston for well over thirty years, have spent plenty of time passing through Dudley, then and now, and I live about a three-minute bus ride away. I'm aware of the changes there and elsewhere, but again--I don't believe well-off white people (or well-off blacks people) aren't moving to Dudley because of the lack of stylish housing stock. There are still no resources there to attract someone who wants to live in a fancy tower. The gentrification of the South End, for example, has happened literally over the course of my lifetime--no one just put up a huge loft building on Shawmut Ave and shouted "hey--it's near the medical center!!" and watched the yuppies roll in. Which isn't going to say it won't happen here but this tower won't be the deciding factor.

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I have been traveling thru Dudley for nearly 25 years now and the change is palpable. Very positive for the most part: re-investment is a good thing but displacement is also inevitable. Unfortunately, I think one can expect to see the trickle down effect of the south end "revitalization" make it to Dudley; residents there are bracing for it, Byron Rushing just gave a community talk on it. IMHO, The South End has become a lot less interesting to me and has lost some of its funkiness; the physical neighborhood has benefited from the infusion of wealth but it doesn't mean there wasn't a human and cultural cost to this. It's what it is.

Back in the 70's, when the general diagram in the states was wealth=suburbs and poverty=cities, people predicted that the inverse would eventually occur to be reflect a pattern more common in so-called developing countries: greater wealth in the cities, poverty in the outside ring. It has been slowly occurring in Boston if you take the long view: west end, south end, parts of southie, bay village, JP, Rozzie, etc. Folks move to less expensive ring towns: Lowell, Lawrence, Randolph, Brockton, etc. Of course this is simplistic but the diagram seems to hold and support my observations over the last 30-35 years. It's what it is.

The south end still has tent city, mandella, methunion manor, and villa victoria, the south end, and perhaps others I am forgetting...maybe that's the model: build in subsidies so that affordable units can remain in areas subject to tremendous development pressures. Roxbury has been doing this already through the BHA (Whitter and OP ), with CDC's such as Nuestra Comunidad and Madison Park, and with private developers (POAH, Trinity). Maybe this is enough and makes it possible for other developers to build upscale units in other parts so that it truly is a mixed-income neighborbood, rater than a series of mixed-incomes buildings.

my 2c

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I am NOT saying that Dudley hasn't changed in the last twenty-five years--has anyplace in Boston not changed in that time?--I'm saying that if you plunk a 25-story tower down in the middle of the neighborhood as it is now, without any other local improvements then I just don't see how it's going to "gentrify" the neighborhood in the sense of bringing in a rush of outsiders. There have always been middle-class people in Roxbury and I think it'd be great, frankly, to see Dudley become a safer, more lively, more robust center of black arts, culture, and entertainment in Boston. It has a stronger cultural core in many ways than the South End ever did--the SE was more of a melting pot, more diverse and less unified (I'm surprised to read that you think it's only lost "some" of its funkiness because it seems to me it's been pretty well stamped out). And this project seems to be borne out of and supported by the existing community so I think there are some new precedents here. I'll be interested in following this story.

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it's still kinda funky down here (thank God for Pine Street Inn)!

I'll buy ya lunch!

Also, one building will do diddly to change a neighborhood one way or another; the long view is that the 25-story building could be one 250 foot domino. Time will tell but Dudley seems to be in developer's sights.

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I don't think of it as funk! Not anymore anyway. I've known a handful of people who lived on Thayer Street in cold-water lofts (back in their artist/musician youths) who had very fond memories of it (I seem to remember stories of Ray Flynn getting quietly sozzled after hours at JJ Foley's) but I imagine that those lofts are exclusively for zillionaires these days. I'll grant you--if I were looking to pawn anything, that's still where I'd head.

That area is still kind of nicely mixed in some ways. Myers and Chang, the big Chinese supermarket, Pine Street, the burrito place, the little league games and poofy dog park in Peter's Park...it's still got some grit. It's the last place I remember watching guys throwing dice, though that was a while back. But unless you're in public housing, or one of the aforementioned zillionaires, you can't afford to live there. No idea of the prices at Ink Block but I'm guessing they're not anything I could ever afford.

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lots of nantucket red shorts and poofy dogs on Tremont; can i change to "most" of its funkiness?

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1. Market rate does not mean luxury housing. It means "market rate", which is to say "market rate for the location". "tower" does not equal luxury, either.

2. I think you seriously underestimate the extreme price pressure in the market, including Roxbury. Including Dudley Square. It isn't "rich yuppies" who will move to a development like this - it will be a mixture of people seeking decent modern housing at a reasonable (so far as the area goes) rent and people who will want the relative convenience of being near their jobs.

I find it strange how many people equate "market rate" with "luxury sky high rents". Yes, rents are sky high in general. No, they will not be sky high here, necessarily (or relative to the surrounding neighborhood or the city in general). That very well may be the selling point of the development. Plenty of my son's friends from different cultures live in mid-priced tower apartments in otherwise marginal areas because their families lived in these kinds of places before they came to the US.

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"Honey, let's move to X now that gangbangers have been replaced with artists, hipsters and fabulous gay boys" - shit everyone says.

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So you assume only white people can afford these units.

Not to mention 9 floors of office space have to be filled with employees.

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So you assume that I assume there are no black people who can afford market-rate rents? I was thinking about the effect of dropping a tower with high rents into a low-rent area. Race doesn't play into it.

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most of the people I know who can afford market rate rents would not choose to live in Dudley Square..

Of the people I've met over the years, inner city minorities were just as scrupulous about selecting a safe place to raise their children as Wellesley housewives. That many of them could not live in such well-to-do neighborhoods had very little to do with lack of desire or effort.

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SERIOUSLY? What, no hashtag? Thank you for proving the old saying does not apply to me, since you're the one making ass-umptions, moron.

I'll bet money you've never even been to Dudley, and if you have I'll bet those power windows and locks get a nice workout.

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Can anyone tell me what is considered affordable housing in this state because I have been looking for a new place and frankly the rents are pretty much nuts in this state !! It so bad Im probably gonna have to move to NH

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It's just beyond the high water mark of speculation and rentier wealth confiscation that is choking the working and middle class here.

I was in a 4br there with three roommates from UNH and we each paid 350 a month. But there was plenty of inventory in that range and still is.

I was there two years ago but returned to my free place in Cambridge.

The spectacle of realtor leeches flocking here each time Adam hoists another post about some wealth confiscation monstrosity to fatten speculators, hardhats and commission chasers has to be one of the more lively Uhub entertainment features.

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It what world is Dover, NH anywhere comparable to the city of Boston and the Greater Boston area? "Wealth confiscation"? What are you talking about? Lets say you plunk down the change to buy a three family in a decent neighborhood. Lets say its $600k, which means it will need some work (in Roslindale they go much higher than that and still need work). Being conservative, lets say $50k a floor. Now your total price is at about $750k. Your mortgage + insurance + property tax + water + etc is going to be around $5k (maybe less or more depending on owner occupied vs not, down payment size, etc). Break even thats ~1667 a month for each floor. This doesn't include putting money towards an emergency fund for the building or anything else. At 2k a month per floor, you only see about $1k of "profit", and any smart person would put that in an account specifically for the house in case the roof goes, maintenance, cleaning/painting/etc between tenants. So, in all honestly, at 2k you are maybe breaking even. Also note that these are rose colored glasses - triple deckers are going for a premium in good areas (500k is probably closer in price to Dorchester) making all of these costs even more.

Don't even get started on the cost of new construction and what rents need to be to even break even - its absurd. But - how again is this "wealth confiscation" ? Rents are generally determined at a baseline by the cost of the investment property to break even, and then anything over that is the (small, if any) profit the landlord might make for their very large investment of their capital.

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It's tied in by Amtrak and comparable to drives people commonly make in other metro areas.

If you don't have to be in Boston every day it's a value and it's close to the work found in the Merrimack Valley and coastal Essex county. The Downeaster ride is fun.

A one br up there is probably available at $600 a month and easily available at $1000.

So you have a range comparison of $7,200 to 12k a year versus $24,000 for a dubious dump here owned by someone who figured double money is risky. I bet there are people who would rather keep that extra 12k plus.

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At best, it is part of the metro area. The best point of reference is that it is a suburb of Portsmouth NH. If you want to mention the Downeaster, Portland and Brunswick qualify as "suburbs."

Any savings in rent would be made up for in transportation costs. If you truly want cheap and commutable, try Brockton and Lowell. Maybe Worcester, but I have too much respect for Massachusetts' second city to call it a suburb. It has suburbs of its own!

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If you live in Dover, NH and commute to Massachusetts, you end up paying MA income taxes and NH property taxes (as an owner or through your rent as a renter) and NH excise taxes and any number of fees, too.

Also, one look at the Amtrak schedule and you will quickly see how it does not work for commuters to Boston.

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I have an acquaintance who teaches at Berklee and commutes from Newmarket.

In metro New York, there are people who commute from New Hope PA, which is further, or the middle of Long Island. I remember people commuting to Metro Seattle from Tacoma or Everett, similar distances.

Much turns on your sense of space and distance and eastern MA has a cramped outlook for these things. It's just 60 miles away.

The base cost of property up there is so much lower than Boston that the tax difference is moot. (It might be applicable to Portsmouth, which is more expensive).

There are also interesting dodges on income tax. A number of corporations like Comcast will make NH their main location due to tax advantages.

The Downeaster isn't a bad ride and works for a basic commute, if you have the right kind of job. I used to take the morning Downeaster and there were commuters boarding at Dover and the other stops between it and Haverhill.

At the end of the day, be right. If it's too far for you, that's all that matters.In 2013, when I was last there, Trulia had multi family inventory in the 70k to 150 k range.There wasn't a lot, but it existed.

If I didn't live in Cambridge for free, I'd go back there or Fitchburg. I have several friends who commute here from there.

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My immediate reaction to "affordable housing" is also usually to mean "a healthy housing market" whereby there are a range of options for various income levels but it seems up here the phrase is only used to specifically refer to subsidized housing, not the wider sense that would cover the middle class too.

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in the early 90s i lived on williams st in what was then a building of artist lofts. the building was not even half full. and the neighborhood was, as most imagine, extremely dicey. and with a strip club across the street... truckers parked in back of the building to be with the hookers they picked up from in front of the building.

last year, when i was displaced out of my affordable cambridge apartment by another fabulous developer improving all of our lives , no doubt, by rendering us homeless and all housing unaffordable to the working class, i was wondering if williams st was still lofts. no dice- what it was were condos now going for half a million being sold by brokers trying to call the area ' the south end'. snort!

so pretty much most have no frigging clue what has been going on at dudley square. but, thanks for playing.

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you have to find the place where the truckers and hookers go NOW, that's full of big empty industrial buildings. For better or worse that's not going to be in boston but in some little city outside Boston. But realistically, things change. There is literally not a place I lived in between the time I was born and my late twenties where I could afford to live now--every neighborhood has undergone a massive shift in price, as well as a lot of "improvements" some of which are great, others less so.

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the violent crime problem hasn't been fixed.

Yes, I know the area VERY WELL, and I'm not sitting in a 'rich' suburb. Some of Boston's most dangerous neighborhoods are in Roxbury. I suppose they'll find some people foolish enough to buy a condo there, or pay market rate to rent, just like they do in parts of the south end.

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I'm sure they'll come up with some fancy name like "Innovation District", SOWA, or FIDI and market them to out of staters coming to Boston to start a new career.

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I'm 100% in favor of development plans that bring middle-class housing to the city, but I do have to wonder if the developer here is overestimating how many people want to live in expensive apartments in Dudley Square. The closest analog I can come up with is 225 Centre Street, the large building that went up next to the Jackson Square T stop a few years ago. It's in a similarly questionable neighborhood--the Southwest Corridor is right there, yes, and you can literally throw a rock and hit an Orange Line stop, but it also abuts Bromley-Heath. The ground floor is commercial space, and has been sitting vacant with a "For Lease" sign in the window since the day the ribbon was cut. I don't know what the residential occupancy rate is, but I have to wonder how many people are willing to pay $2250/month for a 2-bedroom where you're guaranteed to hear gunshots once or twice a month.

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It does seem kind of...undersubscribed. The rents are bananas and the building itself just seems pretty cut off. You're not in "vibrant" Hyde Square--you're basically sandwiched between two huge, not great housing projects and a bus depot/T stop, oh, and two busy roads. I can't see the advantages.

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This article from 18 months ago suggests there is enough demand to allow them to jack up rents slightly.

http://boston.curbed.com/archives/2014/01/225-cent...

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FWIW: 225 is only the first piece of a "revitalized" Jackson Sq....as the first piece, it was definitely going to lag behind in terms of fit up and occupancy. There is a second piece being built across Columbus, a third one ready to be built (pending gap financing) behind the brewery, and ongoing deign of a parcel across Centre Street. No doubt Bromley and Academy are poisoned by a number of bad actors and make this area difficult for development. I think it is likely that BH will eventually be privately managed as housing authorities get phased out in the next 25 years (according to some estimates).

Not many advantages yet but the expectation is that this could be a major node (access to hospitals, etc) as gentrification moves down Centre St from Hyde Sq.

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buy's at Dudley I'll believe its gentrification.

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Adam, love you, but this headline is a bit misleading. This doesn't appear to be a luxury building - it's middle-class housing. That's something really needed in Dudley not only so people can stay in the area but also especially to support and enhance the commercial sector there. You wouldn't see the local elected officials supporting this otherwise and they know the community best.

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A building with units that sell at 50% market value would still be 50% overpriced. Thus ANY unit that is "market value" might as well be called "luxury". Nobody who is "middle class" is going to be able to readily afford units that are $300K+, and possible much much more than that.

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That'll get you a dump of an apartment in Brighton, try $600k or more if you want anything resembling "middle class" housing.

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..for less than that.

$75/mo commuter rail to So Station in 25 minutes (on a clear, sunny, above 60 degrees work day)

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Not being snarky at all--Hyde Park is a big gap for me, partly because it's hard to get to without a car and I've just never heard of any big destination/reason to go. I think I've been there twice in my life. Is there a center the way there is in JP/Rozzie/West Rox or do you really have to drive/commuter rail or bud to get anywhere of interest?

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Cleary Square and Logan Square are on top of each other, making for a decent center. Shaws or Star Market or whatever are a short walk from Cleary Square, and Stop & Shop is a little hike from Fairmont Station, but perhaps twice the distance from Jackson Square to Hyde Square in JP. I cannot judge the distance to Price Rite, but it can't be too far. There are a few restaurants, and of course Ron's Gourmet Ice Cream and Twentieth Century Bowling in the thick of it all.

Most would not settle Hyde Park car free, but you'd be driving less than if you moved to Woburn or Lynn.

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....but you also make "destination" sound like it's gotta be hipster(JP), gentrified(Roz), or whitish middle class (WR)....HP is a very interesting neighborhood...from what I have observed in my travels, it is probably the most integrated neighborhoods in Boston and on a house by house basis, not street by street, as you might find elsewhere. It is struggling commercially, in sort of the way Rozzie Sq was in the 80's, since a lot of folks don't see it as a destination(!) but it has tons of potential. Some stable diverse restaurants are doing ok; there is a folk jam at a bar on Thursday's once a month, and the best YMCA in the city with a daylit pool, best zumba, and Sokalicious on Sunday mornings. Also 3rd best ice-cream in the world (per Nat'l Geographic) at Ron's Bowling. It is a gateway neighborhood for lots of immigrants from Africa and the carribean and some data have suggested that HP is about 65% non-white. It is a neighborhood in transition and all that entails. It is also close to beautiful urban wilds and reservation land (Blue Hills and Stone Book and Fowl Meadow), the end of the Neponset River bikeway to the ocean, and the Neponset is navigable by canoe. After living in JP, Roz, Dot, and A-B, we never thought we would live in HP for the same reasons you mentioned. Always passed thru it on the way to the Blue Hills. Got priced out of other neighborhoods or didn't accept the over-rated value of the high rents in so-called "destination" neighborhoods; now happy to be here: 35 min bike commute downtown; 25 min commuter rail; 45 min car commute! Best kept secret in Boston; I guess it's just a different kind of destination.

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That is not at all what I meant. Come on--can you read a little more closely and give me the benefit of the doubt just once in a while? I mean a dense, busy, pedestrian-friendly center where you can reasonably expect to find groceries, a pharmacy, restaurants, a hardware store, and other spots of interest, whether you want coffee or ice cream or whatever. It has nothing to do with hipsters or whiteness (honestly--how many "hipster" businesses exist on Centre St in JP unless you're counting our two awesome thrift shops?) For the car-less, having some kind of dense neighborhood center where I can knock off multiple items on my Saturday morning to-do list or get a few hard-to-find things (thank you, Bob's Pita, for example) is a priority. Dudley, to go back to the original topic, is a "destination" by that definition though I still think it could some boosting. But my question was just out of curiosity and expressed--I thought--pretty neutrally. I've lived here my whole life but I don't claim to be familiar with every neighborhood in the city. Does anyone?

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...and of course it's no prerequisite to know every neighborhood in a city, just to live in that city. I guess it's just an interest of mine. No offense meant. You seem to know a fair amount about other neighborhoods but like a lot of folks, HP is a nether-region...and you can get he-ah from they-uh without a car.

And JP and Rozzie were not the same destinations back in the day that we enjoy now. When I worked for the city some years back in neighborhood development (early 90s), Rozzie Sq was a sad little place and Sophia and the grocery store were a twinkle in someone's eye. Time's change and they are for Dudley and will for HP at some point.

I lived in JP before it was as it is, and lived in Rozzie before its renaissance...maybe I'll stick around an actually experience some healthy and hopefully positive development in HP.

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really truly. I'm eager to check out HP more. And yes--cities and neighborhoods fascinate me endlessly as you can see. But it is just funny the well-worn paths you tend to follow, even when you've lived in a city for a long time. Friends, relatives, work, food, church, your kids' friends--did I mention food?--all seem to have been the major factors in where I've ended up spending the most time. The first journeys I ever made to JP were to go to George's for discount shoes and to JP Licks which was so exotic back then. And a quest for Fornax bread was probably the first thing that ever took me to Roslindale Square.

So--we'll get over there one of these days! And yes--it sounds as if you should stick around.

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And have a steel trap memory, the Logan Square Tree Lighting after Thanksgiving is a great time. They block off River Street for the afternoon and turn it into a block party of sorts. You really get to see Hyde Park in it's urban-suburban glory.

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Rich people need more housing in Boston too...

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They're going to plunk this thing where Citizens Bank is? My first reaction was to bust a gut laughing. I go through Dudley every day (which I hate) and I would never pay $2,000/month (which is almost twice the "market rent" I pay now, just up the street) to live there. But I do see a lot of....let's call them non-natives - people who clearly didn't grow up in the area, as I've been there for decades and they're pretty noticeable....all over Dudley, Washington St., Walnut Ave., etc. now. I suspect they'll have people willing to fill those apartments.

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Talked about it last night and we agree, we'd consider moving there if new housing was built, even if it's not 25-stories.

So, yeah, white professionals coming into an historically-black community.

I doubt the prices will be as low as the developer says - either he's not done the math on the cost of building or he's just trying to garner more support - but even if a two-bedroom was $3,000, it would be a bargain compared to the competition, and a more-central location than other options.

I'm more skeptical he can find as many businesses to fill the office space as he says. Moving the school committee is one thing; getting businesses to move and face issues of traffic and limited neighborhood shops and restaurants, would be difficult.

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Doubt it - no one in their right mind would pay $2000/month, let alone $3000, to live in one of the most dangerous parts of Boston. There's plenty of safer places in the same price range that are just as convenient to downtown. You might not have granite countertops, but that's a small price to pay for not having to deal with flying bullets.

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Things change.

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Well then, care to spearhead that change? Or would you rather wait for the gays, the hippies and the artists to do their part first?

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I like my little house on our little piece of land. But just because I don't want to move doesn't mean others don't. The history of American cities shows that.

And that's aside from the fact that you're just trolling around now, because if you'd read the original post, wayyy up there at the top of the page, you'd see I wasn't arguing for the SoWa-ization of Dudley Square.

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The most dangerous parts of Boston are now safer than some of the safest parts of Boston were in the 1980s.

Think about that for a minute.

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...I feel safer in Rox than some other parts of the city (nameless)

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