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Pressley: Kid in Roslindale incident should have shut up, but officer should have walked away
By adamg on Wed, 08/26/2015 - 6:44pm
At-large City Councilor Ayanna Pressley met today with Police Commissioner William Evans and Superintendent-in-Chief William Gross about that incident on Washington Street in Roslindale. She issued a statement:
It’s hard for me to imagine a circumstance where it would be appropriate for a law enforcement officer to have his or her hands around an individual’s neck. This incident was ugly. I wish the young man had not used such provoking language. I wish the officer had walked away. But during escalating situations, it’s critical that calmer heads prevail and protocols are followed. It was confirmed during our meeting with Commissioner Evans and Chief Gross at BPD today, that placing hands around the neck of an individual is not part of protocol. This incident is under investigation, as it should be, and at minimum provides an opportunity for training in de-escalation and use of physical force policies and procedures.
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Comments
Well.. not voting for her
Well.. not voting for her again.
If this is your deal breaker...
...somehow, anonymous, I doubt you were going to vote for her anyway.
never understood the blow to "anons" here
What's the difference between someone who hides anonymously behind a registered username versus someone who hides behind the default name?
Humans crave status.
And the divide between 'registered' and 'not registered' helps some scrape a bit more status out of the jar.
I had an account. There isn't any constraint for me to just look it up and request a new password but I had an epiphany.
I'd rather make useful arguments and contributions that stand on their own merit rather than my status in the Uhub pecking order of 'registereds'.
I like giving Adam veto power. The main reason I participate is due to his quality as a news gatherer. The commentariat is something of a horror with a few genuinely nice and sagacious people like Mr. Kerpan or cybah. Bob LePonge is a great resource on conservation law issues.
But too many regulars are mainly in a rush to score points without contributing much substance and style gets old fast.
Branding
It's useful to be able to tell one "anonymous" (pseudonymous) poster from another. Seeing a chain of half a dozen (or maybe more or maybe less) anons arguing with each other gives one a headache...
There is more context when
There is more context when registered users post ... one can associate them with their previous posts. There's a little more accountability.
Stil trying to figure this one out
If a person calls somebody a fag to their face, it can be considered a civil rights violation. But if a person calls a cop a pig and an n... to their face, it's considered protected speech.
Just one more episode in the bizarre land that our society has become, I guess.
Yep
For better or worse, police officers are expected to show a lot of restraint. People who can't deal with that perhaps should be going into a different line of work.
Your initial post on this
Your initial post on this "incident" seemed to be very much on the police side, and now you've appeared to completely have flip flopped..
For someone who spends all day long listening to the BPD scanner, hearing what they have to contend with day in and day out, you sure do seem to loathe them a lot.
And you're just HEARING what they're responding to. They're actually out there picking up the bullets, seeing the bodies shot, fighting the violent suspects, getting hurt, spit and shit on at every turn. Remember that next time you're listening to them.
I think you're reading too much into what I wrote
I still think the police in the video showed a tremendous amount of restraint. And I think they had a legitimate reason to arrest that first kid, if for no other reason than he was blocking traffic. And the jerk yelling "Somebody's gonna get shot!" really is akin to somebody yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
That the officers generally showed restraint is a good thing, and speaks highly of the training Boston officers receive.
It's also indicative of what I said just above: Police, who carry guns and nightsticks and the like need to show a lot more restraint than anybody else (even T drivers), even at the cost of being yelled at in close proximity. Like it or not, disrespectful as it may be, the First Amendment DOES give people the right to express themselves right in their faces.
Somebody who has trouble coping with that, yes, does need to find a different line of work, or perhaps employment with another police force that is not quite as scrupulous about remembering the Constitution remains in effect in this country.
That said,
"a lot more restraint" does not equal unlimited restraint. This cop did the kid a favor. Letting your mouth write a check your body can't cash occasionally proves fatal in that neighborhood. Good life lesson.
Please answer Adam: Do you
Please answer Adam: Do you honestly think you could do that job, much less make a career of it?
It's one thing to listen to a scanner nightly and tweet about it in the safety of your living room, and then wake up the next morning to give your two cents about what went down.
It's another to work every single night on the front lines in Roxbury or Mattapan, going from Domestic Violence to Shots Fired to Homicides, many of which involve young males.. Eventually it would take a toll on you too, it would HAVE TO, unless you were engineered by Cyberdyne Systems.
Maybe this cop did 20 hard years in a hard District, seeing the worst of humanity on a nightly basis. Maybe he's earned our respect, and especially deserves the respect of some punk 19-year-old that apparently has a huge problem keeping his trap shut.
No, I couldn't do that job
And I'm glad there are people who can - and who can meet the higher expectations we have of them.
Remember they sign up and
Remember they sign up and take a test to have that job. And Adam is right they need to have more control than anyone else. It's part of the job. They are civil servants and some have forgotten that. They need more and better training. I personally feel that police officers should have to be in therapy on a regular basis (remember that domestic violence amongst cops is staggering). Our training has to change, beat cops should be back in the neighborhoods getting to know the ppl that live there and cops (again, not all) need to get off their "holier than thou" attitude and realize that the citizens that pay their paychecks have rights too.
Yes, they see horrible things every day & I wouldn't want that job in a million years and I appreciate what they do but that still does not give them the right to be above their own laws. Are all cops bad? Of course not! The majority of police are good and do a great job. But they are human which means there are going to be shitbums in their ranks.. And this is where the blue line has to be broken. Why would you want to knowingly work with a bad cop? Why would you not rally to get them removed?
Now should the kid have been acting like that? Heck no. Should the cop have put his hands around his neck? No. But the kid was still able to scream so he clearly wasn't choking him. It comes down to everyone have mutual respect for each other.
This country feeds off violence; we accept that it is just an every day thing and we go about our business hoping it doesn't happen to us. You see a nipple on TV and the country goes nuts but you buy your kids Grand Theft Auto and the like and do it without a second thought. You see 20+ children get shot at school, innocent ppl at church getting killed, TV anchors dying, politicians getting shot and the biggest voice is from the folks that say "DONT TAKE MY GUNS AWAY". What is wrong with that picture? What does that say about us as a country?
I think you will see laws change on this one...........
It has been a recent trend for people to whip out their phone and get as close as possible to others (cops, celebrities, people who they want to "shock") and get a reaction out of them. As William Evans had said recently, there should be an actual space distance where people can invade someone elses space. And this shouldn't be for just cops either. I think people have a right not to be bothered by someone with a camera 1-3 feet from their face or in front of them as they are walking.
Ever have something whipped out near your face when you don't expect it? You can't simply say your reaction should be "calm" just because your a police officer. That isn't to say cops have the right to chase you down and beat you, or even come after you if you are a safe distance away, but I think human beings have the right not to have someone come up near your face for any reason, no matter who you are or what your doing. Reacting to something in your face is a natural defensive instinct that even cops can't simply be "trained" to react to.
(This doesn't excuse all the cases of people filming cops in public places and getting charged for it).
Are you comparing calling a
Are you comparing calling a gay person a fag, to calling a police officer a pig? I really need to stay away from UHub comments.
Yeah because people are
Yeah because people are really born a cop. Right. Totally equivalent.
First Amendment 101
To be clear, calling anyone a slur is protected speech. Your comparison doesn't hold up. Of course people can still call you an asshole and treat you as such, but the speech is free.
Walked away?
How about some drunk southie townie starts yelling obscenities at her - would she want the cop to walk away? First jackson's gangbanger paycheck and now this - who in the world votes for those clowns?
I do
Me.
Setting your personal bar
Perhaps if she were to call police after being verbally abused with racial slurs and sexual threats, they should remind her she thinks that's ok.
Nope
No verbal abuse related to her race or gender, only her career choice. That's free speech, right? Or does that only apply to cops, not sleazy-ass politicians or bleeding heart bloggers?
Different standards
I believe that if an agitated young man came up and screamed "fuck you, pig, fuck you nigger bitch, suck my dick, nigger," in Ayanna Pressley's face, as the individual in question did in the video to a policeman, that would constitute a public disturbance as well as a threat to her safety sufficient to justify a request for protection.
I believe that she should then be able to ask someone, e.g. police, to remove that person from her face, and perhaps even that that person should be arrested if he carries on at length in that fashion in the middle of the street.
Apparently you and she disagree with that idea, and believe that it's all well and good that someone should do such a thing without any consequence. I don't believe that your stance increases public safety or civility. I very much hope that nobody every does that to Ms. Pressley, but it appears that she is requesting the police not to intervene if it were to happen.
We would have to increase the
We would have to increase the police force by 10x if they were going to respond to sexual harassment and racist name calling. I assure you that as a woman of color she has probably been subject to both many many times and has indeed walked away
Drunk Southie townie?????
Drunk Southie townie????? Where do you get off? I bet you don't even know anybody from South Boston. Keep Southie out of this.
How about some drunk
Suburbanite, business executive, college professor, hipster, college 'kid' (male and female), .... why a 'townie', or someone raised in 'southie'? How about a drunk and disorderly 'townie' from Roxbury or, say, or a son or daughter of college professors from Brookline or Newton? Maybe a drunk, obnoxious prep school 'kid', of which there are more than a few.
Yup,
just look the other way. Adults in this man child's life, who should know better, have enabled his un-civilized behavior his entire life; it's the main reason he and others like him are the way they are.
The councilor needs to re-think her priorities and look at the big picture, not pander. The cops are forced to act as substitute authority figures and social workers, which is a sad state of affairs. Don't hate the messenger.
I support police
I support police
Police officer is not a good
Police officer is not a good fit for a thin-skinned person. Part of any officer's training should be turning the other cheek when someone calls you a "pig" on the street.
That's nice, only he did a little worse than call him a pig.
right?
Uh...
I thought he was arrested for disorderly conduct after he blocked traffic? Meaning his words had no impact on the cops. His actions did.
And +1,000 to whoever above said shame on the adults in his life. This dude (he's 18, not a kid) is an embarrassment.
Great response
The focus of this should remain on the original incident (drug arrest), the bystander's actions (yelling) and the officer's response (over-reacting, most-likely), but I appreciate Councilor Pressley's comments and reaction.
I was just thinking today how I'd phrase a response. I think I'd point out that, as I mention above, there was a potential crime being committed (drug deal) and the police were apparently acting appropriately, which is greatly appreciated. I'd also point out, as she did, that in heated situations, police officers need to exercise calm and measured responses.
And, to the guy who yelled at the police officer, I'd also add the advice my father gave me: "Don't piss off two people: the woman drawing your blood and the guy holding a gun."
Also, "Choose your battles."
Well put, John. I thought her
Well put, John. I thought her comments were a pretty good take on the situation, at least as far as we know what happened from the recording.
Also, adding to your dad's advice, never piss off the waiter before your food is in front of you.
Yes, that's what he said
Yesss! The waiter thing is probably what my father said, but after 1,000 needles in my life I probably made that one up in my head!
I'm not a big Pressley fan
But she did do a good job distilling the whole incident down to two sides that could have behaved better. Of course, my feeling is that the arrest was probably warranted, but grabbing the kid's throat seemed overkill- just grab the shoulder and put him down that way.
I'm not saying I'm going to start voting for her, but who knows down the road.
fact is
In any situation, an officer of the law needs to be the better person
what would have happened....
ten or twenty years ago (before all the cameras) the kid would have been punched in the face by one of the cops. then they would have driven away and it would have been over. I know, I know, it is part of the problem of cops not being trusted blah blah blah. people act like assholes now because the camera is on (WORLDSTARHIPHOP!!!!).
somethings should be settled off camera. not saying cops should be driving around looking to beat kids up but if this kid said that shit to a cop 20 yrs ago he would have been dealt with on the spot and it would be a non issue.
...wait, what?
So...ten or twenty years ago, the cops would have punched the kid out over namecalling. And you say that people act like assholes NOW?
just telling u how it was
without the safety provided by all those cameras, do you think that kid would have acted that way ? no way.
Well, he is pretty correct.
Well, he is pretty correct. And, yeah, the kid would have been knocked out for being an asshole pure and simple, and probably wouldn't have done that cause they would know that is what was going to happen. So, yeah, as there are more and more cameras, there are more assholes trying to do shit they now think they can get away with for their 5 minutes of fame. As for the cops - well, they have always been assholes, so its not like there is a net gain over the years :)
Rev. Rivers
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/25/police-commissioner-evans-d... - good quote the from our resident Rev Racecard McShakedown, I'm actually starting to have a decent deal of respect for that guy.
Councilor Pressley, like any political opportunist, wants
to take advantage of this situation. If I'm a voter or if I'm a resident dealing with punks like this kid on a regular basis I'd want to know why she sides with the trouble making punk. The Councilor fails to recognize that the strategy of abandoning law and order because it might upset someone only leads to chaos. A similar decision was ordered in Baltimore a few months ago and trouble makers took advantage of it. If that kid knew he could do what he did with impunity then good luck to you Boston. But then again if that happened chameleon Pressley would be there to blame the police for not doing their job.
Respect
Whatever happened for respect for police? Yes, some cops do not deserve our respect because they are not good cops. We have a process for this. A citizen can make a complaint, a cop gets enough complaints and they eventually get fired.
Seriously, hands on the "troublemakers's" throat?
I had heard the cops do that to avoid being bitten.
Does anyone truly think the young man was hurt by this? Not a chance.
Let's stop calling the arrestee a kid. He is 18. Old enough to vote or protect our country in the armed forces. Scary thought would you want this man in the military?
That process has been broken for a while.
That process you speak of isn't very reliable. Did you miss the whole thing with the medford cop who had a history of bad behavior but was still around to bully the poor guy who went the wrong way in a confusing rotary late at night? That seems to be a common thread in cases like this. Citizens complain, cops "investigate" themselves, find themselves innocent. It's only the video evidence that seems to get any action.
The incident with LeBert
The incident with LeBert/Medford, I believe, is having its hearing tomorrow, 8/28. I'm hoping they come to a sensible solution to that one when they bring forth the news, but your synopsis hasn't come to fruition, yet.
Per my reading of her quote,
Per my reading of her quote, she blamed both.
Thus the
chameleon reference.
Because...
...it's inconceivable to you that both sides could be partly to blame for the situation? It has to be all one or the other?
In this case
yes.
Kid will likely be dead soon
Interesting when people like this "kid" get shot and killed, outside observers always say "we need to do more." What would you suggest for someone like this? If he interacts with police in this unrestrained, profane manner, he must have been a pleasure to have in class in the BPS. Pressley and Jackson should learn from Rev. Rivers who said, "Frankly, if that kid had been my son I would have slapped him myself for cursing at a cop."
Sad, but if he is that aggressive and defiant toward real authority figures, no doubt he'll soon cross the line with gang authority figures too. The phone camera won't help him then. Much like AP, CNN etc. pre-write obits for at-risk celebrities, maybe they can start one for this, "loving father, emerging rap star, turning his life around."
Lastly, credit to the police officer who used "as much force as necessary to affect the arrest, but nothing more." That's always been the accepted standard in court. The prisoner refused to willingly enter the caged back seat of the police cruiser and was assisted by the officer placing light downward pressure on the brachial plexus not the throat. Good all day in court.
I worked with some of these kids
but much younger. 5-8 years old.
What should be done is these kids need to be taught appropriate social and behavioral skills in early elementary. A huge number of them have no idea how to interact with authority figures or express negative emotion without completely losing it. A lot of people brush it off as "kids will be kids" and do nothing, but I assure you, that behavior stops being cute pretty quick.
Example: We were breaking kids into 2 groups, when suddenly an 8 year old boy started tantruming, shouting "No no no!" crying, jumping up and down, flailing his limbs, hitting the wall, screaming, and refusing to go to his group. We put him in time out to cool down.
After he calmed down, I asked him why he was in time out. He said, "Because YOU put me in the wrong group!" I told him that I was sorry that we made a mistake, but that throwing a tantrum is not the way to get attention from an adult. I said, "You can just say, Excuse me but I usually go with the other group, and I'll go look on the list and double-check and make sure you're in the right group."
Kid looked at me like I had six heads; clearly, he'd never been taught how to properly advocate for himself without being rude and tantruming!
The kid was mouthing off but
Its okay for a cop to walk up into your personal space and stick a phone in your face. I see cops on and off duty mouth off and become the instigator. I wonder if they charged him with resisting arrest in which he didn't but he certainly did not go quietly!