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Citizen complaint of the day: Cat cafes, maybe, but Boston doesn't need dog cafes
By adamg on Fri, 11/04/2016 - 7:28pm
A concerned citizen doesn't want any hair of the dog and files a complaint about a South End Starbucks:
Third time in 10 days I have seen a dog in this Starbucks at 627 Tremont in the south end. Management is oblivious. These are not service dogs.
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Comments
I'll take dogs over people
I'll take dogs over people any day of the week.
I'll take a well-trained dog and conscientious owner
Any day as well. Unfortunately, they're both like unicorns these days. It honestly would not surprise me in the least to see a Boston dog owner not think twice about the "baby" shitting or pissing in a restaurant.
Too many I see have no shame nor scruples. Completely self-absorbed douches.
Internet Fantasy argument
You phrase this as something you presume will happen , but has it? It would be nice if you could tie up your dog outside but as I can actually document the dogs get stolen.
The more remarkable thing is that this person clearly has not approached the management and ask them to put the dog out. Is that what 311 is for? people that don't have the guts to complain to a Starbucks manager?
It's funny that everyone keeps quoting Germany here because in Germany people leave their babies sleeping in strollers outside of restaurants and coffee shops because you know it's safe there
Logical Fallacy
"Dog outside --> might get stolen" does not automatically lead to the conclusion "must bring dog inside." Otherwise, the same argument would hold true for your brand new refrigerator, your car, or your friend's rhinoceros. None of those belong in a food-service establishment, and neither do non-service dogs.
Nope, I don't believe I said the dog must go inside.
I was fondly remembering a time when you leave your dog outside a shop and grab a coffee or perform some other random errand without getting your dog stolen.
Lojack
If your dog is so expensive that you worry about getting it stolen, you should put a gps tracker on it.
Every dog
is expensive. Adoption from a rescue can cost from $250-$550. Routine yearly check-ups and shots, food, any special care are even more expensive. Owners love their dogs. Having a dog stolen is horrible for everyone whether it's a mixed breed or a purebred. I would be afraid to leave my dog tied up outside a store--but I don't take him into the store either if it is not allowed.
I have seen ads for GPS. They seem to be devices that attach to a dog's collar. Useful if your dog runs out of the yard but I assume a thief would just detach the collar rendering it useless.
Retrieva
Locks on.
Some dogs are more expensive than others. Mutts just cost "adoption" fees and maintenance. Purebred and Designer dogs can cost in the thousands. I expect theft is a bigger problem with expensive dogs that can be resold than with mutts.
Simple answer
Go get coffee, then go back and get the dog. Walk dog while drinking coffee. Charbuks isn't cool enough to drink for a half hour anyway.
I work in a hospital. The
I work in a hospital. The number of "service dogs" I've seen shitting on the floor at various places around our building is depressingly more than zero. More than five, even. In addition to these things running around, jumping, barking... people are sick, why expose them to that many more germs because you refuse to leave your dog at home....
German restaurants & cafes allow dogs
Germany, where restaurants are clean and orderly, has no problem allowing customers to bring their dogs.
You really think that a dog owner standing in line to get a beverage for three minutes is going to cause dog hair to jump into your coffee?
Which STARBUCKS in the South End? I want to go there and tip the help.
Americans < Germans
Regarding being clean, orderly or following rules.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say I doubt there's dog shit on every sidewalk and ballpark in Germany.
You need to get off the Internets & travel more
No, actually, *never* seen dog poo in a park or on the sidewalks of Germany.
while you're on the internet
consider learning how to read
German dogs are better readers, too
Scroll back to the top of the page. No, wait, you went too far! Slowly, scroll down past the logo and the big ad, past the headline, ease on down past the photo and look. See that gray box in the post? Look in there. You won't be disappointed.
"Which STARBUCKS in the South End?"
Perhaps the one at 627 Tremont. Seeing as that's what the 311 complaint states in the original post and all.
Adorable!
( reminder: my "Universal Comment" has more than one meaning )
I'm with concerned citizen on this one
Health regs are clear. Follow them.
I don't see a problem with
I don't see a problem with this, the dog and owner are not sitting down, they are just waiting in line for coffee. If someone wants a coffee and have a dog on leash what should they do??
Not a huge challenge, you
Not a huge challenge, you bring the dog home and go get a coffee. I have a dog, I love my dog but some places don't allow my dog so I don't bring him there. Why is this difficult to understand.
They should bring the dog
They should bring the dog home then go back and get their coffee.
I've seen dog owners tie the
I've seen dog owners tie the dog to a parking meter or something outside while they run inside.
They are summarily ignored in all food establishments lately
I've seen them in Whole Foods in Fenway, Star Market in the Back Bay. Nobody gives a shit about the rules (with the possible exception of the dog, who may literally give a shit in the middle of the aisle).
This is because of the ADA law
It is not legal to ask someone to show documentation that their dog is a service dog. So if you say, "Excuse me sir/ma'am, but unfortunately dogs are not allowed in our facility as it is a violation of the health code," the person can lie and say it's a service dog, and there is nothing the business owner can do after that.
So rather than have this same pointless conversation to the same pointless end every time, they just wait until a dog is behaving in an aggressive or unclean manner before they say anything.
And might I add, I often see small germy children in stores sitting their pooey diaper butts where people eat (tables), having bathroom accidents, spitting up, vomiting, dripping snot, and rubbing their mysteriously sticky hands through food merchandise bins (bulk bins at Whole Foods) without a care in the world. I would rather sit next to a dog.
I hear that
And lots of people get a note from their therapist saying they really need their companion dog (which is NOT the same thing as a service dog) so what's the point.
I'd rather see dogs than most kids too....and you have made a good point as to why I *never* get anything from a bulk bin or a salad bar.
i only leave the house with my companion rats
this is why i moved to allston
"Lots of people?"
There is much confusion regarding the various legal designations of these animals. Ralph, you are quite right that an animal with a note from a therapist is not a Service Animal. Service Animals are highly trained and documented to perform specific necessary tasks for their owners. Their training and their utility opens even restaurant doors to them. But please do not trivialize Emotional Support Animals. That note from a therapist will only work if the owner has a documented disability, and even then the ESA may not be brought into restaurants and such. The only privileges for ESAs relate to housing accommodations and air travel. Anyone who claims they are allowed to take their ESA anywhere they please is wrong and probably lying about the animal's status as an ESA. And a therapy animal is an entirely separate designation. The owner of a therapy dog need not be disabled- their purpose is to periodically volunteer to visit limited areas of nursing homes or hospitals. The owner of a therapy animal receives no special housing privileges and certainly cannot take the animal into food-serving establishments. But my point is that, while some posers will throw these terms around because they don't want to be hassled for bringing their companion animals to inappropriate places, these are formal legal designations with very specific rights and limitations.
So then go through the rigmarole every time
Let the dog owner lie about being disabled. My hunch: most won't. The owner will quietly apologize, walk out and wrap the leash around a tree or pole, and come back in to get their coffee. Next time the owner will tie the dog up outside.
It would reduce most violations, and it would allow the owner to state to the health inspector that the employee took appropriate action.
This ain't hard. A few health inspector tickets and you can bet word will get around shops, and far fewer dogs would be in food service establishments in violation of the law.
Two questions
1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and
2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
Babies are people too.
But you wouldn't let your kid shit and piss in the middle of the sidewalk or on the neighbors front lawn or at the park but dog owners do all the time...the evidence is everywhere!
A few months back I watched a
A few months back I watched a Whole Foods employee in a panic rushing to get a customer with a pug out of the store in Lynnfield. The customer had the dog in the shopping carriage with fresh produce. The wife took the pug out of the store and the husband continued shopping. Personally I don't care if I see a well-behaved non-service dog in a Starbucks... in a grocery store in a shopping carriage, well that's a different story.
Clear and, at least in this
Clear and, at least in this case, completely pointless.
But there's
Nothing wrong with the homeless guy completely balls out , bareassed taking a sink bath in the 'Bucks i was just recently in .
I guess not if no one
I guess not if no one complained.
In the Hillary totalitarian society free choice no longer exists
Oh wait. The election is not over; Hillary is not the President, First Citizen, Tsar, Czar, Emperor of the Universe, King, Queen and Ultimate Nanny. Therefore the complainer still has the free choice to A) complain to the store manager or B) just not buy at that store.
Meanwhile why are Americans so septic? We need more nudity in parks (see Germans), less paranoia about germs and more sense.
Wait - this is a Presidential election where a candidate can reduce women to their genitalia, imply that he is more qualified than another candidate because his "finger" is larger and yet still have a hair's chance of winning the election.
How did so much of the United States devolve into Biblical stupidity and paranoia?
Why are
You bringing religion into this? Hater. There is great wisdom in the good book. Try reading proverbs.
First time for everything
I've never been called a hater. Granted I've had plenty of reasons to hate when hearing the lies (often Biblically based) from people such as Anita Bryant, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Yet even these folks who vie for scum of the Earth I can't hate.
I'm not sure if I can hate. I've seen hate in action. It eats a person. It is a ghostly parasite that chews at their soul for their entire life until either they diminish to nothing or worse that hate turns into rage and violence. I choose to not sacrifice myself on the altar of another person's hatred.
As for the use of the term Biblical I use it as an adjective: an adjective commonly used. Perhaps if I had not capitalized then offense would not be taken? On the other hand so what if I use the adjective? The Hebrew and Christian texts are not the property of anyone. There is good in these texts. But there is also what we would call evil: the stories of genocide when the early Hebrews are told the the divinity to kill everything living whether it's the Canaanites or some other tribe that the divinity disliked. Whether these are true stories of course doesn't matter. They are part of the text.
Paul - in his infinite wisdom - doesn't let the Christian text go on as being candy and sweetness, especially where homosexual relations are concerned.
But I don't take any of the texts literally. Others do and I don't object to their literal interpretation so long as they respect my rights as a human being. I offer the same to others - to not interfere with their rights as a human being. But if others want to censor my language then I will gladly defend my right to free - and peaceful - speech.
If using the term Biblical as an adjective is somehow not included as free and peaceful speech then I would like to know how that is.
As for the Good Book I find the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and even the Federalist Papers (and a few others not as famous) to be just as significant and deserving of being called Good Books. For me they rank with texts formed thousands of years ago, much fictional and mythic, told in cultures considerably different from ours, where slavery was perfectly fine, where women were chattle and where violence was okay in the name of God.
Your first post had plenty of negativity
if the shoe fits, you can't acquit.
The existence
of pets in stores and restaurants cause a huge problem for people who use ACTUAL service dogs!
Agree
On regular dogs and service dogs, I don't want fur
Flying around while I'm eating my croissant and coffee. So unsanitary.
When....
When the new Letter Grading System comes into play. And a business gets a bad grade related to a violation of Pets on Premises. Will people know, and understand that it was just a pet owner who didn't observe the rules? Or will most see the Grade and continue on by... Food for thought.....
Nah, they just get a D
For dog! Who's a good boy? Who is he?
Slippery slope
Whatever happened to signs reading, "shirts and shoes required, animals and bare feet not allowed" in stores and restaurants? I like most dogs and have owned a couple but wait until the first person is bitten in Starbucks. Bring on the lawyers. What if there is a customer accompanied by an "aggressive breed" just ahead of you in the slow Starbucks line? Is one to hope for the best? Get them out of there, heavy fines for dog owners who bring them in and stores/restaurants that allow it.
People can be "animals," pets are always animals!
Enough with the equivalency!
This used to be clearly understood:
Babies are HUMAN and have entitlements DOGS do not. Homeless people are HUMAN and have the rights and should have much more empathy towards them.
I've seen uncivil parents change diapers on restaurant tables. It's uncooth and obnoxious and and surely violating a health code but it has nothing to do with an ANIMAL on the premises.
Homeless people have their own challenges but they are PEOPLE!
Enough!
Smarten the fuck up and clean up after your dog and treat it like the PET, not BABY, that it is.
Don't be a scumbag claiming service animal. I'm exhausted after 12 hours shifts every day. I don't pull a douche move and claim something untrue to get a T seat.
Common decency ain't that common.
Sad commentary on our society.
Well Technically, Humans Are Animals Too
2 things
1. why am i the only one that wonders why this person is using 311 and not asking for the manager? The people behind the counter might not even see this dog. its a busy starbucks.
2. Mobile ordering. If you use your phone to order and pay, you only have to enter the store for 30 seconds. There are couple Dunks that even have street windows.