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Once again, mayor wants Starbucks to leave a Boston neighborhood alone; will it listen to him this time?
By adamg on Fri, 07/06/2018 - 9:37pm
NorthEndWaterfront.com reports Mayor Walsh is asking Starbucks to withdraw its proposal for a Venti-sized Frappuccino joint at Cross and Hanover streets as an affront to the North End's culture and history.
If Starbucks listens to the mayor, it will be for the first time.
In 2016, Walsh opposed a similarly controversial Starbucks at L Street and East Broadway in South Boston, although more because City Point already had a number of places to get coffee. Starbucks ignored the mayor and, after the licensing board rejected the proposal, applied again and won and now sells coffee two doors down from the local Dunkin' Donuts.
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Comments
Hmm
Help me understand the outcry for this?
I get it.. Starbucks. big evil company that will put local places out of business.. but will it? Only if you let it. Don't like it, don't patronize it. Sure the tourists will, their loss really. But remember, people like chains for consistency and familiarity.
I looked at this location on a map. Its abuts a park and then the green way.I don't usually think of this as the North End until I go down Hanover. There's also a Peet's on the corner of Salem and that essentially Starbucks light. And I won't talk about the other chains on Salem and Hanover.
And not for nothing.. its replacing a bank?? Not like its replacing housing or an existing local tenant.
Performative nonsense
I mean, if this is the game plan then yes, the mayor SHOULD stop the taco bell from opening on American Legion or the Burger King in Uphams, etc...
Now, I don't think any of those things should be stopped but if Walsh wants to start caving to public pressure for dubious reasons, he can't defend one over the other.
Guys, I don't think we've got a very good mayor anymore.
An Interesting perspective
Quoting... "...but if Walsh wants to start caving to public pressure for dubious reasons, he can't defend one over the other. "
This can be taken 2 ways. Caving, or maybe listening to the will of the people who live in that community, as is expected of elected officials that are supposed to represent them, not necessarily big corporations.
I'm no fan of Walsh or Starbucks, but at least he seems to be listening.
Also.. something to consider here... according to past press, the last time a large chain tried to go in there and the neighborhood didn't want it, the developer was getting their windows broken overnight every few days. Eventually they got the message and pulled out.
Space savers? Kid's play.
Maybe someone clued-in Walsh that this was what was coming next, and they do not have the staffing to park a cop there 24/7.
So you can look at this as capitulating, or making a decision that prevented further unrest.
No winners here either.
Hmm
I think this is nothing more than pandering for votes. It makes no other sense. Especially when there's another coffee place a 1/2 block away and chains all in the North End. You kinda lose your argument right there.. you want no chains, lobby to close them all. Not just the ones you don't like. (and good luck on doing that!)
And I wanted to add one thing to my post... survival of the fittest does matter. Remember when the Purple Shamrock on Union St was closed to make way for a Chick-Fil-A. People were up in arms about it. CFA pulled their store and a Panera opened up. It closed 2 years later for lack of customers, and it's walking distance to the biggest tourist destination in the city.. Fanueil Hall and Quincy Market!
...anymore?
.
We need a mayor like Menino
I’d write more, but I to stop at the Brooks Pharmacy in Roslindale Square on my way to the Chick Fil-A down by City Hall.
Exactly, property faces the
Exactly, property faces the Greenway, to think about it.
I have been going into Peet’s coffee for quite sometime now and I usually see people walking over from different directions from the haymarket T stop and everyday locals coming in,
I rarely see tourists coming in, and you can tell who’s a tourist and who is not.
People may not like an Italian cappuccino or an espresso or stand in line for a half hour for an overpriced cannoli, so the alternative is a Starbucks, the 1950’s glory days of the North End are over, And who made up this “Rule” that a chain like Starbucks can’t set up shop in the North End. What happened to Free enterprise!!! Nitwits..
This Could end up being a lawsuit against the city of Boston.
Here's a clue, people outside
Here's a clue, people outside Boston and Massachusetts view Dunkin Donuts as a big evil company.
So?
I mean, outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Out side of a dog a book is man's best friend ...
... inside of a dog it's too hard to read.
Hitting the ball you teed up for me
Inside of a dog it's too dark to read
Big business will hollow out
Big business will hollow out America if we let it.
Long term impact
This is exactly what I’ve done with them since the BS they pulled with La Boulange-I went from a gold card member to not having set foot in one in just over 3 years. I also refuse to set foot in the Dunkin that replaced Cucchiello’s in Eastie.
I see where both sides are coming from, but the latter example above is what worries me. As pointed out below, there’s already a Starbucks on Lewis Wharf and in Faneuil Hall (they’re actually building a brand new one and you’d be able to SEE the one in question here from it), plus the one in the Marriott on Long Wharf. Aside from wondering why we need another, my concern is more what it will do to rents and other costs of doing business for current and potential future business owners in city.
Just like rents and property taxes in “old” buildings skyrocket just for being near these new fauxury monstrosities going up everywhere, so will the cost of doing business. I know not every North End restaurant is family run, or worth keeping around on quality alone, but I wonder how many we could lose down the road as owners move on and the next generation of their families, or new ones, can’t take over. It’s a slippery slope that doesn’t necessarily mean much in the short term, but can change the face of Boston in the long term. Not always a bad thing, but an area like the North End should probably not be on the receiving end of this. Starbucks alone won’t do it, but can certainly open the proverbial flood gates.
Dunkin Donuts in East Boston
" I also refuse to set foot in the Dunkin that replaced Cucchiello’s in Eastie."
You needn't have bothered. I walk and/or take the bus by that place at least 2-3 times a day, sometimes more, and it is consistently empty. I have never seen a Dunkin Donuts so deserted at all times, including the morning. Its so empty that the people who work there sit at the tables for something to do. Very strange. Even the high school kids across the street don't touch it.
Frankly, I don't see what's so great about Starbucks.
They're all over the Boston area, as it is. The North End doesn't need a Starbucks, since it's got so many great cafes, restaurants, and stores of its own. Although I'm not a North End Resident, I commend the people in the North End for fighting against it.
Who are you...
to decide what businesses are "needed" and what aren't?
This guy didn't vote for Walsh
He is doing what we need more pols to do though, and that's side with their constituents. The North End meeting was packed with residents opposed to the business. There is no doubt in my mind that there was also a very noticeable letter campaign, all delivered to city hall via carrier or email, that expressed opposition. So Walsh sided with the larger group who didn't want the Starbucks. This is a move more pols need to make, and I'm happy he sided with the North End residents.
Anyone who really wants a Starbucks treat can cross the street to Faneuil Hall.
There's a Starbucks at another edge of the North End
on Lewis Wharf. Possibly a less touristed area, and maybe even disavowed by the North End as actually being Waterfront instead.
That doesn't mean there must
That doesn't mean there must be another one in the area.
I’d rather ...
... he tell Millennium to get out of Winthrop Square.
And just leave a hole in
And just leave a hole in downtown and lose out on $150 million for the city?
That was the playbook for
That was the playbook for Filene's at Downtown Crossing
Different company
That was Vornado, which pretty much proved every obnoxious Nooyawk stereotype you could think of. Millennium was the company that came in and actually built something there.
Not that it has anything to do with this entire discussion, but just setting the record straight.
How many people have been
How many people have been shot in this city this week?
How many T shutdowns / fuck-ups have there been this week?
What a dopey loser this mayor is.
Yes! Because the mayor can
Yes! Because the mayor can only do one thing at a time.
Exactly
I mean, there are plenty of reasons to criticize the mayor on issues like violence (Marty, you held a press conference to talk about how you're going to protect the Esplanade; where was your press conference on protecting Roxbury?), but, please, the man's not an idiot and over the course of a week, he is perfectly capable of dealing with more than one issue - just like the rest of us.
Wish he cared more or a little bit
For a mayor who ran on such a union platform I wish he cared more about the roughly 1200 people locked out of their job instead of a potential Starbucks. But that’s what happens when one of your biggest donors provides SCAB labor when a greedy corporation locks out the workers who keep the company running. National Greed profits over public safety.
Free
Free enterprise free trade, so the mayor is sticking his unhelpful hand in Starbucks pockets. If the north end came out of the Stone Age they would be able to compete in the new world. Build it.
"Out of the Stone Age" you say?
I'm going to make a presumptuous comment: maybe what you seemingly have deemed the "stone age" is really a "cherished neighborhood" to the residents there.
What is this "compete in the new world" crap you're talking about? Most of this country is a damn mess, partially attributed to corruption, wasting time finger pointing about what political gang you're affiliated with, and focusing on saying the right things than actually putting resources toward them coming to fruition. Who the f*** wants to "compete" with that?
I'd rather be part of a neighborhood that cherishes where they live, their history & about who and what they interact with on a regular basis...not one that gets to see carbon copy overpriced luxury residences pop up like a bad game of SimCity, with no-soul chains that care only about the bottom line, rather than having any kind of positive long-term contribution to the community.
Granted, this is all just one opinion from an "outsider", but I fail to see what the North End is supposedly missing out on, especially when I feel that way about my neighborhood when I think of the North End.
What is a local Dunkin'
What is a local Dunkin' Donuts?
It's the Dunkin' Donuts that's two doors down
You know, the local one that's right there.
This isn’t a strip joint, pot
This isn’t a strip joint, pot shop or methadone clinic we are talking about, it is a coffee shop. Please get over yourselves Mr Mayor and residents of the North End.
If and when I go to Starbucks
I order a “small” not a “tall”. If they don’t “correct” me I give them a fiver.
their jargon is weird
A twelve-ounce drink is not what I'd call a "small," and if I ordered a "small" drink I would hope they'd ask whether I meant a "tall" or whether I meant an actual small drink. Starbucks took that "short" eight-ounce drink off the menu boards a long time ago, but the staff not only know what you mean, the eight-ounce drink cups are right next to the twelve-, sixteen-, and twenty-ounce ones.
This is part of why I like local mini-chain Darwin's: ask for a small cup of tea or coffee there, and you'll get eight ounces, not the twelve or larger a lot of places call a "small." If I don't know a shop, I ask them to tell me their sizes, or just order "a twelve-ounce cup of tea, please" and let them tell me if that's not an available size. (Also, "regular" is meaningless. *shakes the cane she hasn't yet bought, and orders everyone off her nonexistent lawn.*
Good for the Mayor
When Tommy Menino blocked chick-fil-a or whatever it is called because the owner of the company made hurtful comments about the gay community everyone applauded as they should have. The North End is Boston's treasure and need to be preserved or face extinction as many "Little Italy" neighborhoods in the rest of the country are on the brink of destruction.
Starbucks rules
I am formally flip-flopping on my position regarding the suckiness of Starbucks. I now not only recognize their right to exist, I am now a patron.
Coddah has discovered dating. You all may have noticed that I have no time to post anymore and when I do post I use stupid words like "magical" and "nice". Starbucks is awesome, almost magical, in that you can order a five dollar orange juice, manspread on the chairs outside, and pick up a woman in a matter of minutes. I have even lightened up on the social justice warrior chicks. I have learned they all dig the aggressive male thing....most times right in front of their castrated life partner beta.
I am not much of a coffee drinker but I dated a girl back in May who temporarily got me hooked on Dunks Giant 12 and 12. Y'all are lucky I never posted much during that caffeine-fueled, sugar-boosted period.
Rock on, Starbucks. I may eventually snap out of it and want to kick my own ass, but for now, I think the instant cred is nice.
Follow the money on Starbucks opposition
Since when has a Mayor been concerned about a taxpaying national franchise with liberal "values" renting a vacant storefront in the city? Twice now Marty Walsh has opposed Starbucks. Is that really his role or is there more to it? Is the US Attorney watching? Follow the money.
At least Menino was being politically savvy in opposing Chik-Fil-A and Walmart who were perceived as conservative. Very wrong of Menino but I admired some of his political smarts, like packing every city department with former reporters as spokesmen.
The Walsh opposition to Starbucks needs more explanation. No doubt the Mayor's office is emboldened by the bizarre decision of a federal judge on Walsh's administration bullying the non-union TV crew.
Just wait...
Marty will take on Harley Davidson next...
Walsh opposes this Starbucks because
It won't benefit the building trade unions.
Is this really a ploy...
To enable those who make visits to the local mom & pop establishments in order to collect their monthly “tribute” payments on a stable revenue path? I doubt Starbucks would play ball in that regard. Could be I’ve been reading too many Boston mobster books as of late....
Looks like the neighborhood won
WCVB reporting the developer pulled the plan.
That's how it's supposed to work right?
The locals won. They block a store they don't want and there's plenty of other places for people who want coffee nearby. Life goes on.
Locals?
No they didn't, the locals got priced out and moved
Many of the locals sold and
Many of the locals sold and it's the newer people getting priced out.
PATRONIZE CAFFÉ VITTORIA
Thank you.
if you want sprawl go to the
if you want sprawl go to the suburbs