Carpundit proves a picture is worth a thousand words with a photo showing the ultimate value of our unique police detail system.
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Carpundit proves a picture is worth a thousand words with a photo showing the ultimate value of our unique police detail system.
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Comments
C'mon, guys, wouldn't you rather be fighting crime?
By Dan Farnkoff
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 9:19pm
The sad part is Menino, for all his bluster about budget drains and the like, seems completely disinclined to doing anything about this particular hole in the dike. Sam Yoon once again sounds more reasonable than the other councillors and the mayor himself.
conjecture
By Anonymous
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 12:22am
Menino owes the police union because they gave him their vote in a block. He wouldn't mind if the cops lose the franchise (it would be found money) but he's not putting his neck out there.
There are two ways to go about it: Pass a law that opens the job up to others, or pass a law that says the police get paid a flat rate $30 /hour.
Have the effective date one year hence so cops can make arrangements to obtain lost income elsewhere. It only fair.
In my town yesterday I was
By ShadyMilkMan
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 9:49am
In my town yesterday I was driving to work and saw a police detail responding to a distressed motorist, and have seen them help people in the past.
Most towns would have to hire outside companies to staff the flag positions, which means you would have to pay the flagger and the administrative costs for the company. That gets expensive fast and minimizes your savings. Boston on the other hand is big enough that it could house its own flagger department of people making half or a third of what uniform officers make and it could make alot of fiscal sense. They would never do it because the unions are too strong, but its possible.
What on earth are you talking about?
By rsybuchanan
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 1:56pm
Most towns would have to hire outside companies to staff the flag positions
Maybe you've never lived anywhere else, but in every other locale in which I've lived, the company who is doing the work pays for the flaggers. The town isn't out a single cent.
Doesnt you city do any of
By ShadyMilkMan
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:09pm
Doesnt you city do any of its own construction work?
City flaggers would cost more!
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:12pm
Given the dollars-paid-per-unit-competence level that I've seen, contracting with an outside company would be a lot cheaper and probably more professional than the kind of paycheck and benefits that characterize the usual patronage situation.
When you hire a contractor
By ShadyMilkMan
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:14pm
When you hire a contractor you have to pay more then what the worker is making. Ive seen numbers in the 30 dollar per hour range. I cant say if thats true, but those are the numbers Ive seen.
Benefits
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:00pm
Are there part-time ad-hoc city and town jobs? Ever? Or would a on-staff flagger be a full time position regardless of need?
The per-hour chargeback for a single project is still probably less than a city or town would have to pay some well-connected pothead or dullard to sit in the DPW yard most of the time. Oh, and what happens when you need more flaggers than you have? Does construction stop? Do you hire six of them to keep the office warm in the winter months, because you need that many in July?
With the contractor package, you get as many as you need when you need them, too. Then they go somewhere else with their crew when you don't need them.
Im in the camp that believes
By ShadyMilkMan
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:12pm
Im in the camp that believes police should be reserved for big jobs, or jobs near main streets. Id be ok with allowing contractors for smaller jobs, as long as we pay less per hour for services then hiring a cop, and even just putting up som orange barrells at other places.
To answer your question if you check the city job boards on a regular basis you will see that both Salem and Cambridge have summer positions that range from part time to full time for summer jobs. In Salem its all about tourism and in Cambridge its mostly people working with kids. Many cities and towns also have part time employees who work in their planning and dpw departments, and some even job share things like recycle coordinators so one person works for 3 cities. Somerville has a tobacco enforcement coordinator who they farm out to other cities that works about 20 hours a week as well.
Update:
http://www.somervillema.gov/jobs.cfm
Looks like Somerville is advertising for 3 part timers as we speak, half of their current career postings.
Why are flaggers needed at all?
By Ron Newman
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:19pm
I'd rather just repeal the law that requires any kind of flagger, whether civilian or police.
Exactly
By Michael
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:20pm
How much does an orange barrel cost? Nobody seems to ram them intentionally, and they can be used again and again in all kinds of weather.
Been down Somerville Ave. Lately?
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:58pm
The construction narrows the road to one lane each way for about a 3/4 mile or so stretch. Traffic from one direction goes through in a batch, then traffic from the other direction. This requires people with radios to communicate and stop and hold traffic.
That's nothing - I've seen this done on a ten mile stretch of US 26 out west.
Would you trust cars to just take turns using half the road in a half-mile to a mile stretch of roadway? Or do they just play chicken because there was a remote place that did that once and the drivers just negotiated with each other successfully?
Whenever you have cars from one side of the road crossing into oncoming traffic, somebody needs to lead the way. It would be nice sometimes if the cop who is sitting there would actually do just that - his or her job - all the time, but a flagger will do.
Point taken
By Ron Newman
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:14pm
but most construction projects aren't like that one.
As needed based on assessment of conditions
By stephencaldwell
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:14pm
Jobs on roads that almost never see traffic, or alleys, or private ways get cones or barrels. Somewhat busier roads, get civilians, daytime construction on storrow drive get police.
A simple criterion
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:22pm
Does traffic have to be stopped so machinery can move around/in/out of a site?
Does traffic have to be stopped in one direction or multiple directions so that traffic from other directions can move?
In other words, is there a need for a responsive human signalling system to sort things out in an orderly fashion (such as the Somerville Ave situation)? Is this a temporary situation where an actual signal would be silly? Then you need a flagger.
I seem to remember the cops suing a municipality that had a bridge down to one lane and put in traffic signals at either end ... was that in MA?
Traffic lights controlling one-lane bridge
By Ron Newman
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:26pm
I know I've seen that within the last year or two somewhere while riding my bike. Maybe Concord or some town near it?
Temporary signals.
By stephencaldwell
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 3:53pm
I saw a bunch of them in England when I was there last year. They were used at road construction sites where traffic had to use one lane.
Example photo of Temporary Traffic Signal
What happens at night?
By Ron Newman
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 4:02pm
In that photo, it looks like a solar panel powers the traffic light.
uninterrupted power system
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 4:04pm
Batteries and a UPS.
The same thing that happens
By stephencaldwell
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 4:05pm
The same thing that happens to those solar powered signs on the side of the highway.
It kills me
By anon-a-mouse
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 11:44am
Last year, BWSC was excavating a water line in the driveway of 163 Chestnut Hill Avenue and there was a police detail there sitting in his car doing nothing. The friggin excavation was entirely in a private driveway. The maddness needs to end.
cops are WORKING those details hard today
By bostnkid
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 2:43pm
ive been through about ten active construction sites with cops working the details today. i have never seen so much help from the cops. they are actually out of their cars! they are actually directing traffic around the workers! its crazy! maybe if these guys spent more time working the details instead of sitting in their cars memorizing the herald nobody would be bitching so much.
Funny
By anon-a-mouse
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 6:43pm
The detail on High Street working for either the 150 Federal or the 99 High St project at about 1230 today was just chit-chatting it up with a firefighter while I nearly got run down by a car while trying to cross the street.
He obviously didn't get the memo:
By Dan Farnkoff
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 11:22pm
"Work 'em hard until this shit blows over."