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The doctor's sons came over for Thanksgiving; yes, it turned out to be a mistake

Dr. Robin Schoenthaler writes she had her two sons got together for a shortened Thanksgiving - she's a cancer doctor, they both were living hermit's lives and they kept the windows open and a fan going, and stayed masked when not taking a bite as they sat in two rooms, ten feet apart.

She reports she was taking a stroll through John Paul II Park in Dorchester the Saturday after when one son started texting her: He felt awful he'd lost his senses of taste and smell and he got a Covid-19 test that came back positive.


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Comments

Hi Adam,

The link doesn't appear to be working...it says link was removed. I found it on FB at https://www.facebook.com/robin.schoenthaler.5/posts/10158342830891785.

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Text if that link doesn't work either:

Hi, I'm back as Robin-Schoenthaler-the-Boston-cancer-doctor-who-writes-about-Covid.
(And it’s okay with me if you want to share.)
Today I’m going to talk about vaccines and tell a cautionary tale about holiday gatherings.
As we proceed through the start of these dark days of huge increases in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, a thrill of hope has appeared in the form of vaccines.
So far, the news about the vaccines’ effectiveness is all good but most of the information we’ve gotten has come from press releases. Fortunately, the real data — mountains of data, thousands of pages of data — has been released to FDA scientists and analysts. On Thursday December 10, 2020 — this week! — the FDA’s main advisory committee will meet to review all this data and discuss granting an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to Pfizer’s Covid vaccine. You can watch it on YouTube!
On December 17 that same committee will meet to discuss the Moderna vaccine data, and AstraZeneca’s vaccine may well be discussed shortly thereafter. We need all the vaccines we can get so this is awesome, really nothing short of miraculous.
In the meantime, a committee of scientists, patients and ethicists called the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has been meeting for months to figure out the order of distribution (aka who should be first in line to get vaccines).

Should it go first to frontline health care workers; older or compromised people in nursing homes and the people who work there; or teachers, bus drivers, meat-packing employees — who? (For now, top priority goes to health care workers and long-term-care residents.)
And while all that is going on, millions of doses of vaccines have already been made — and companies have been working on the syringes, refrigerator boxes, labels, and all the other vaccine accessories we need as well.

The states and the hospitals have known this day was coming, and now it’s almost here. As soon as a vaccine gets their EUA, vaccines will roll out of the manufacturing plants and head our way.

So it’s possible — maybe even probable — that some people will be getting vaccines in their arms the week after next. It’s even possible that, some months later, anybody who wants a Covid vaccine will be able to get one.

But it’s going to take a lot of time and a huge organizational platform. And there will be at least eight billion news stories and Facebook posts about manufacturing glitches and long lines and side effects and conspiracy theories etc etc in the interim.

Speaking of side effects, the short-term side effects of the vaccines have been entirely as expected: sore arms for many, and for some people a day or so of fatigue, body aches, even fever.

These side effects remind me a lot of what we see with the Shingrix (shingles) vaccine — most people do fine but some people definitely have a lousy day. The good news is these kinds of “whole body symptoms” (fever, fatigue, achiness) are showing you your immune system is being activated, which is a good thing.

As for long-term side effects, the researchers have been watching the trial patients for an average of two months after the second shot and so far no ill effects have been observed after the first day or two. Now, watching 70,000 people (Pfizer and Moderna total) is awesome but the important thing will be watching the first three million people, too. And then the next ten million after that.

But we clearly have a light at the end of our tunnel. A long, winding, complicated, eight-billion-Facebook-posts-and-news-articles tunnel, but a light just the same.

Now, I am going to tell you a personal story about my family’s Thanksgiving.
My young adult sons (Kenzie, 24 and Cooper, 21) live nearby and have been wonderfully Covid-conscious from the start of the pandemic. Both kids work and study from their apartments, both have small pods, both have excellent Covid hygiene (particularly with me and anyone who falls into a high-risk group), and both stayed mostly bubbled at home the last two weeks before Thanksgiving.

Because of this, we agreed to have a science-based "as safe as we can make it" Thanksgiving following all the techniques I wrote about in my previous posts. We kept it small, we kept it short, we kept the kitchen-cooking time to a minimum, we kept the windows open and the fans on, we ate dinner in two adjacent rooms with each of us seated about ten feet from each other, and we stayed masked the entire time except when actively putting food in our mouths (I.e., we were masked between servings or when chatting during the meal).

It all went perfectly.

But then, on Saturday morning while I was walking with a friend at the Pope John Paul Park south of Boston, Kenzie texted me saying, ”Sooooo I have bad news.” Half a minute later he sent a second text that read, “I feel horrible.”

I knew instantly what it was — he was sick with Covid. Which meant he had been contagious at Thanksgiving.

It was probably the most terrible moment I’ve ever had as a parent. I bent over on the walkway and I just could not stand up.

All I could think was “Why oh why didn’t we just skip Thanksgiving this year? Why? And now it is too late to stop whatever tsunami is coming our way."

The rest of Kenzie’s texts confirmed my fears: he was sick with a fever and body aches and a headache and he lost his sense of smell and taste and he tested Covid-positive later that day.

It was a very bad day.

This is exactly how Covid spreads: a person, like my beloved son, can have Covid and have no symptoms at all, not a single clue, for several days before getting sick. A person can be contagious, like my beloved son, on Thanksgiving Day and then not get any symptoms at all until Saturday, while his mom is walking in a park.

This is exactly why we were so meticulously careful about our Thanksgiving. We knew it was possible one of us could be that asymptomatic contagious person. Not likely, not even probable. Kenzie had and has no sick contacts. He had only shopped, carefully, at a couple of large stores. All of us had been mostly at home for the previous two weeks.

We had no reason at all to think any of us had already caught Covid, but we couldn’t be sure. So we followed the science and opened the windows and turned on the fans and sat far from each other and masked up pretty much every moment we didn’t have a fork in our mouths.

And as it turned out, the science worked. Coop and I have remained Covid-negative. And asymptomatic. And NEGATIVE. And Kenzie had a rough week but is getting better.

We’re all getting better.

The science worked.

But was it worth it? Was gathering my little family together for some pumpkin pie and whatnot worth it? Was it worth it to have Kenzie feeling what he called “Defcon One Guilt” about potentially exposing us? Was it worth the discomfort of having to tell his contacts they needed to be tested and then go into ten days of quarantine?

Was it worth all the 4:00 am awakenings, the test-result anxiety, the constant texting each other checking on symptoms while living through that first week of absolute uncertainty about how things were going to turn out?

Am I ever going to hold another Thanksgiving in the middle of a global pandemic? Or Christmas?

Absolutely not. No possible way. Not a bit. Not a chance.

And I’m never going back to that Pope John Paul Park place again.
#cancelChristmas #haltHanukkah #wearthemask

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So many hedging words. Mostly, pretty much, etc. If there's anything to learn here, it's that not quarantining means not having quarantined. Mask or not. Hand sanitizer or not. Hand washing or not. Distancing or not. If you're going to stores, interacting with your friends, you're increasing your risk.

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I really wish we could agree to a moratorium on anecdotal covid news. I don't care if it's disseminated by team "FREAK OUT, EVERYBODY!" or by the Trumpian flat eathers. It's about as helpful to the public health discussion as pondering yesterday's weather is to our understanding of global warming.

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So I get your point, but in this case, this is a doctor who has been posting weekly, encouraging people to take COVID seriously and be safe. She shares medical advice--like last week's post was what medicines and health tools to put in your COVID treatment kit. She is re-posted all over my FB feed. And her anecdotal thoughts are usually based on what she is seeing as a doctor right now in Boston.

She has been a strong advocate for not traveling for Thanksgiving, not meeting up indoors, and always wearing a mask. So her story--that they tried to have a safe indoor Thanksgiving, with ventilation and masks and distancing with her immediate family (who quarantined beforehand) and someone had Covid unbeknownst to them with no symptoms--it strikes a cord. And underlines how you can think you're doing everything right and still putting people in danger.

I just don't think it's the same thing as you are arguing against, even though I do agree that anecdotal COVID stories can be annoying!

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Because if she was so concerned about COVID she would have listened to her colleagues and not hosted a Thanksgiving dinner.

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It does strike a cord, doesn't it?

Doc doesn't think the rules she preaches to others also apply to her family and that her medical background somehow gives her the power to beat COVID with open windows and a table fan.

She seems way out in the ozone and has completely lost the plot.

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How is this relevant to the question of whether this supposed doctor is to be trusted or whether the Thanksgiving story is true? Facebook is a cesspool of lies and misinformation "posted all over" facebook feeds.

There may be reasons to trust or believe this person, but presence on facebook is not one of them.

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But, How could it be possible? If your son was being so careful and staying away from people "living a hermit life as you stated" Where did he catch Covid? Could it had been t either of the two large stores he visited before the family get together? Does that mean then that even going to a large store, say like Star Market to pick some groceries is dangerous? Granted that at the supermarket one does not socialize or stay close to others for very long. This is kind of puzzling and frighting. I have started feeling a bit of a sore throat and I thought that one does not even catch a sore throat or cold unless one is indoor with other people. Well, I have made the effort to stay away and I live alone. The whole thing about viruses and infections are so bizarre.

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And I really wish we could agree that dismissing both sides as being equally extreme does not make you the adult in this or any conversation.

It's the mark of an incredibly small mind who'd rather satisfy their own ego than actively engage.

Look at me! I'm so smrt! A pox on both their houses because I'm too full of myself to even bother to climb out of my own ass!

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Slow your roll. Show me where I dismissed both sides as equally extreme. I'll wait...

What I take issue with is a tactic: specifically, what's essentially an anecdote being used to drive home the need for proper Covid precautions. A shitty argument is a shitty argument regardless of who employs it.

For the record, I assume that like me, you believe that this thing is serious and want serious measures taken in response. I merely think that the good guys should avoid the kind of specious arguments that Trumpers tend to make. I don't just hold the good guys to the same standards, I hold them to higher standards--it's part of what makes them the good guys.

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Anecdotes should not be used to make broad generalizations when there is science and there are statistics. But anecdotes are extremely powerful rhetorical devices and be very persuasive.

In this case, that this woman is a radiation oncologist and would take such a chance, and admit it, is mind boggling. Her work puts her in contact with immuno- compromised people whose treatment must be administered on a strict timetable.

Glad that she sees the error in her ways, but the hypocracy of preaching carefulness and doing the opposite is rich. This story was a reminder that we can't trust that people are doing the right thing. She didn't get sick due to precautions and also luck. She is encouraging risky behavior by suggesting you can socialize safely even if someone is sick.

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Here is an idea, if the subject doesn't interest you don't read it.

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Agreed, thanks. In this particular instance, the particular form of "interest" I felt was annoyance. By that token, I was very interested.

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Let's see what this doc considers "safe";

"Kenzie, 24 and Cooper, 21 live nearby and have been wonderfully Covid-conscious from the start of the pandemic."

I'm really not sure what "wonderfully covid-conscious" means when speaking about college kids of drinking age living in dorms but the point is both kids live at school and seperately.

"Both work and study from their apartments, both have small pods, both have excellent Covid hygiene (particularly with me and anyone who falls into a high-risk group), and both stayed MOSTLY bubbled at home the last two weeks before Thanksgiving."

MOSTLY!?!?!?

How does a doctor square "as safe as we could make it" with having their two Dependent Petri dishes over for Thanksgiving? Because I can guarantee if this were her neighbor or friend she'd have published several pages of scorn and ridicule.

But since it was Kenzie and Cooper (eyeroll) so "Wadda ya gonna do
right? kids will be kids!"

...puhlease.

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The big question for me is how did her son catch it? Was somebody in his "pod" not careful or was he not really as careful as he said he was (did he really stay bubbled before the holiday). The reason I ask is that those of us trying to be careful want to know what he did wrong so we don't do the same thing and end up with Covid.

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"Everyone lies."

One or both of those sons - or possibly the good doctor herself - have been regularly attending off da hook brunches in Fort Point and house parties in fancy Cohasset neighborhoods.

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Kenzie caught it from elsewhere, but did not spread it to Cooper or Robin -- they've tested negative. So probably Kenzie or someone in his pod.

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It could have been a roommate or roommate's GF works in a grocery store. It could have been the delivery guy. It could have come from just about anywhere during high community spread.

Masks, distance, minimize errands.

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"Everybody lies" or "everybody lies a little" remain favorite sayings amongst many of my colleagues.

As for this particular news item, we are really screwed if even the doctors are not following their own advice.

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I first heard this when doing tech support 30 years ago:
"Did you restart the computer?"
"Uhhh, yeah."
"Well let's try it one more time."

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She does mention that her kids are in small pods. But everyone in those small pods may also be a member of another small family-pod, and everyone in those small family-pods is probably also a member of another small non-family pod...and so on.

Does anyone know if the state breaks down contact tracing to what percentages of contacts are known relations? It would be great to have a metric for what the risk is of randomly getting infected by being in the same store with someone is vs getting infected from family.

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It was probably the pod, although it sounds like no one he knew also got sick. Also, shopping isn't 100% safe. If we're indoors with lots of people for more than a few minutes, we're taking a risk even if we're masked. We can't assume everyone else is properly wearing their mask, and toddlers don't have to wear them. We don't know who was there before we got there, coughing or otherwise spreading germs. Aerosols can linger for a while.

If you can afford to have groceries delivered, it makes sense to do it. I try hard to keep all of my indoor errands to 5 minutes or less, and only once or twice a week.

This is a heartening story, though. I was expecting to hear about three sick people and there was only one. Stay home, Stay safe. There's always Zoom to remind you of why you moved away from your relatives.

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If I have groceries delivered instead of shopping for them myself, I'm just transferring the risk from myself to some poorly paid peon, and perhaps taking a scarce delivery slot away from someone else who might really need it. Is that an ethical choice for me to make, given that I am healthy and ambulatory?

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Just saying. It's honest work like any other job.

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Pays for shit and kills people in multiple ways, too.

Let's not pretend that all one needs is an "honest" job to feed one's self and family.

I'm fucking sick of the whole HERO nonsense as a pretext for not compensating essential workers and not mitigating the risks they have to take.

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I said delivery people are not peons and nothing about a hero.

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She has spoken.
That is the way.

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Ron asked a very reasonable question about the ethics of using delivery services. You were the one who got salty.

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All work is important. But Corporations do not pay their workers a living wage and/or benefits.

Walmart and McDonald's have the most workers on food stamps and Medicare...why? Because they hire part timers, give just enough hours where they don't have to pay benefits and they don't pay a living wage. But yes, let's keep giving those poor Walton's, Bezos, Musk, etc huge tax cuts personally and for their businesses.

When are people going to realize that Corporations & the rich are not the working persons' friend?

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the number of people in the store.

If you do grocery delivery or curbside pickup (I recommend doing it through your grocery store, not an independent app) then the only people in the store will be the employees picking orders, not hundreds of people picking their own orders. This reduces the chances of someone COVID positive coming in the store, reduces the overall viral load of the air in the store from multiple COVID positive people entering the store, and just generally reduces the number of interactions with people that employees are having in the store.

In my grocery store for example, when I've been in there, I see the picker walking around with a multi-binned cart picking 8-12 orders at once. That is 8-12 fewer people in the store- and that's assuming everyone goes shopping alone. Many people bring their spouse, kids, roommates, etc., too. So it's really eliminating closer to 25-50 people.

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My thought is that it's safer to have a limited number of pickers and delivery people in the stores all doing multiple orders rather than many more members of the public as well (including myself) all doing one order each. With Whole Foods lately, there are PLENTY of delivery slots available, so it's unlikely that you are taking one away from someone else.

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And some grocery delivery services come from a warehouse rather than a normal store. If it's set up properly, a few warehouse workers could do all the packing, and do a contactless hand-off to the delivery people.

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We're both "senior" and at higher risk for complications. We live in a small apartment with one bedroom and an "en-suite" bathroom. We can't isolate from each other, and we have nowhere else to go. So neither of us can risk getting sick because we'll likely infect the other. So we're extra careful.

Back in the spring, we had to wait two weeks for a Peapod delivery but Whole Foods was same-day delivery. Now it's easy to get a delivery within a day or so from everywhere.

It seems to me that it's safer for everyone if slow-moving, grabby-handed seniors like me are not in a store, handling the produce and coughing away (post-nasal drip). It would make sense to have more young, masked pickers and far fewer customers.

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One thing to consider is those "peons" are shopping for multiple people at once. They are like the buses of the super market. Instead of 5 people roaming the aisle you have one. They also are not wandering around thinking too much, they are in and out.

It would actually be safer for all of us if some stores just shut down and only allowed for deliveries. Only let professionals in the store and convert all employees into shoppers.

To me this is different then ordering a pizza in a blizzard. The fact he is delivering for 5 people at once does not help make him being on the road any safer. Replacing five people in the market does.

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Maybe that 'poorly paid peon' as you so denigrate grocery store delivery people, need the job and the tips to pay rent and by their own groceries for their families. Don't be such a snob.

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And I mean no disrespect to anyone. But words have definitions.

. US : a person who does hard or boring work for very little money : a person who is not very important in a society or organization. : a poor farm worker especially in Latin America.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/...

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If you do feel badly about having someone do your grocery shopping, tip generously every time. I've been doing online shopping for myself and my parents (both 65+) so it's usually a pretty big order.

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The reason I ask is that those of us trying to be careful want to know what he did wrong so we don't do the same thing and end up with Covid.

It likely will not ever be known exactly what he did wrong. Years ago, I realized that most catastrophes aren't caused by running a red light (figuratively speaking) but by speeding through a series of yellow lights - so, yes, it's possible they may identify the person he caught it from, but how he caught it is more likely a series of "yellow lights".

Seeking after the "red light" is a classic risk-assessment mistake: trying to identify what someone did wrong in the mistaken belief that if you avoid that one thing, you'll be safe. "He wasn't wearing a helmet; therefore, if I wear a helmet, I am safe." Real life just doesn't work that way.

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The Doctors son followed all of the recommendations and still caught the Virus.
It makes you want to crawl under the bed and never leave the house, but that is impossible.
.

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But that's why it has to be a collective effort. It's not just about doing what you need to do to keep yourself or your family safe, everyone needs to be doing what is needed to keep everyone safe.

It's like driving a car, you can be the best driver in the world but that won't stop some other driver from hitting your car. Yes, you can drive defensively, and your vehicle can have all of the best safety features installed, but sometimes that isn't enough to protect you.

And as someone who basically teaches people how to do relatively hazardous activities in a safe manner, I can anecdotally say that none of us are as careful as we would like to be, or think we have been, all of the time. And sometimes that little lapse is the one that gets you.

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It reads like panic porn, but I'm over the top cynical so that's my problem. It could be 100 percent true.

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This is a reputable doctor who doesn't usually recount personal stories. Why would she make up a story like this? It doesn't reflect well on her, at least by her professional standards. She's giving us a lesson, not trying to scare us.

Maybe you need to stop doom-scrolling and reading "panic porn."

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It happens all the time with reputable people.
I'm not saying her son didnt get covid but all the details about how they followed every scientifically researched recommendation seems a bit suspect.

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Most of my family and I all work/worked (dad retired) in healthcare, and we discuss and debate the covid recommendations we read about all the time.

And for Thanksgiving/National Day of Mourning, we also had open windows, had an air purifier going, and were in separate rooms from my older parents. And we similarly hunkered down in the weeks before the day.

We enjoy spending time together, but we also prefer practicing risk reduction.

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Forget the windows and air purifier. Get a Zoom account.

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And that would be the most safe. However, I've never been a fan of absolutism. You can tell people not to have sex to avoid STIs, and they still get STIs. It's better to tell them everything else they can also do to reduce STI risk.

The name of the game is harm reduction, and it's a war, not a battle. People are getting quarantine weary, and it's understandable after almost 9 months. We can follow and give the best advice available when people need an alterative to isolation and video and not just be trite.

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I'm not saying her son didnt get covid but all the details about how they followed every scientifically researched recommendation seems a bit suspect.

But they didn't transmit it to each other. Did you miss THAT detail?

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Nope. But your snark is noted.

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My dude, you are in a piss-poor position to be calling anyone else out for "snark". Your comments drip with it, starting right with your "panic porn" bullshit. Go look in the mirror.

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Saying someone cant comprehend what they read is snarky, especially if the person doing it makes a point that I didnt make.

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You're right. You are over the top cynical, and that is your problem. Good luck living in a world where you believe in nothing.

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Enough that we all know by now that you do NOT know what you are talking about.

Perhaps you should consider spending some time learning about it from reputable epidemiolgical and medical sources instead?

You keep doubling down on ignorance rather than filling your immense blind spots.

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And you seem to know everything about everything, I sometimes have the larger words explained to me because of my ignorance, but I get it.. you're the smartest person in the room.

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n/t

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Where people make fun of you for knowing things.

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So someone raises the possibility of people posting/ sharing lies (hypothetical speaking of course) and your view is that if he reads that then he is the one to blame? Gotta say, you seem to have a very cozy relationship with the liar side of the equation.

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And because all the people in this story are limiting their social circles, that means that one Covid case may not become a super spreader event.

Had the family attended an in person church service or had dinner in a restaurant or hosted a larger family gathering???

I get the regret but I also get the decision making that went into this call. Maybe they will dodge this bullet. Maybe the open windows prevented a viral load that would have enabled transmission.

But what these stories continue to tell me is that all these mitigation steps are not foolproof. You also need to be lucky.

And one thing that helps your luck is when there are less cases to spread the virus. That is no longer the case anywhere in the US. We all need to act accordingly.

My choices even a month ago may be far riskiest today. Not because I'm doing anything different but because there is much more virus in circulation.

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I keep hearing about how careful people are and only keeping to their select small pods and only shopped at like four stores last week... And.... And...and.

I have no pods. At work I am in my office door closed, window cracked, fan on. Now every other day. I meet with friends outside. I don't shake hands, I don't fist bump, I don't elbow and I get all my shopping down at once or get deliveries. The whole concept of pods sound wonderful but I always hear about how people have a few pods, well each of those has a few pods too and so forth. It may be slower to spread this way but once it breaks into the walled garden it can really mess shit up if people let their guards down.

Generally when I hear the word pod it sounds to me like a justification to break the rules, a loophole.

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When a person is ill or infirm or needs assistance with day to day activities, they don't have the option to be an anti-pod purist.

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Not going to argue with that... But I think most people would assume I'm not referring to the elderly relative that needs her son to stop in weekly or the guy with a visiting nurse.

When I hear and mostly talk about pods it is for social purposes. Not the ones above.

While I am clarifying I would also say my comments about work are not aimed at those who can't do what I do. Lots of people have to be exposed, the best thing we can do for them is to expose them less... But there are also plenty of companies and workers who had to be pushed into taking distancing seriously and they had the means, type of work and resources available to do so.

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We're on the same page. I was thinking specifically about a friend who needed to transport her sister in law to her cancer treatments (and to whom I gave my last N95 back when this started). At that point, the SIL entirely depends on my friend to be safe. If friend decides to go out for drinks with friends...well, SIL doesn't have a whole lot of choice. It is a terrible dilemma.

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That is scary , this is not an easy time to need people sadly.

As for driving check out this new study. If she must get in a car with someone her best bet is back passenger seat. If they can't open all the windows because of bitter Boston cold then open up the opposite windows from each person as much as possible. This supposedly will cause an airflow crossing the car that is the safest possible window stradegy

https://scitechdaily.com/how-airflow-inside-a-car-may-affect-covid-19-tr...

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If she must get in a car with someone her best bet is back passenger seat.

Unfortunately that won't help her. She died of cancer a few weeks ago.

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Exactly. Even having a small pod is not risk free. I have no pod. I simply do not trust people. I hear folks all the time say "Oh yes I'm being very careful"... while they're hanging out with people from outside their household for social reasons.

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would be just the people in your household. And even then they have to be honest about where they go and what they do when not in the house (are they meeting with friends and you don't know about it).

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My household is five people.

Three work from home, one is a service worker, one is unemployed.

Said service worker bikes to work, practices all precautions, and (if it came to that) could be sealed off on his own floor with his own entry with a dorm fridge and microwave. He is potentially exposed due to other service workers at his workplace and customers who don't fucking get why their special pampered asses have to wait until they leave the shop to drink their coffee and keep their fucking masks on when ordering.

The service worker is the greatest risk to all of us, because of COLLECTIVE behavior in the community.

TL/DR: THERE ARE NO INDIVIDUAL-BASED SOLUTIONS TO PANDEMIC RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES!

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True but you expect that the service worker is the threat and I'm sure they know it to. So extra precautions can be made. You and your family can decide how to handle the situation as a unit. It's still a sucky situation but honestly knowing is a huge part of the solution.

The issue with these social pods and people convincing themselves and their family it is safe is that guards are let down.

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Yeah sadly the "pod" is creating the exact conditions that the virus needs to spread.

I get why people do it particularly people with children. But because of the delay in symptoms and asymptomatic spread, you are defenseless from Covid if it enters your pod.

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I also don't understand the benefits of pods outweighing the negatives. Unless it's a significant other, is it that awful to wear a mask when you're around other people and expect the same during a global pandemic? I don't need to see any of my friends' mouths or noses uncovered again, and I'm happy to spare them ever seeing my shoddy dental work and crooked nose again

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Risk reduction is not risk elimination.

This is about risk reduction. An individual following all the rules reduces risk, but does not eliminate it.

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Especially for its conclusions: they did everything right with Thanksgiving, everything they did right worked exactly as it should, and although one guest had the 'Rona, it did not get transmitted to anybody else because of excellent planning and follow-through.

And, therefore, they will never do that again.

Was this a rational decision? It worked, therefore never do it again? The gathering for Thanksgiving did nobody any physical harm, but it did cause emotional harm. This emotional harm lead to a reassessment of risks going forward.

The science worked.

But was it worth it? Was gathering my little family together for some pumpkin pie and whatnot worth it? Was it worth it to have Kenzie feeling what he called “Defcon One Guilt” about potentially exposing us? Was it worth the discomfort of having to tell his contacts they needed to be tested and then go into ten days of quarantine?

Was it worth all the 4:00 am awakenings, the test-result anxiety, the constant texting each other checking on symptoms while living through that first week of absolute uncertainty about how things were going to turn out?

No, it wasn't worth it to her, even knowing that her precautions were put to the test and found sufficient, because the emotional suffering was too great.

The fundamental equation of risk is possibility times consequence. She correctly calculated the possibility of them spreading COVID in their very safe Thanksgiving. The factor she did not include in her calculations was the emotional suffering from uncertainty. People hate uncertainty, and it makes us suffer.

If you want to figure out if Grandma should visit you for Christmas, don't just use this equation:

Risk = Chance of giving her COVID * how bad it would be if you did

but also consider this one:

Risk = Whether you will worry about transmitting COVID among your loved ones * How much this worry will make you suffer

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This is why I refuse to visit my parents for any reason until we get a vaccine. The worry that I would have infected them unknowingly would absolutely destroy my mental health. And then if I actually did infect them, it would haunt me the rest of my life. No thanks.

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This was why I got my flu shot faithfully for many years, until it became habit and I reached an age where my own risk was also becoming high. While I was certainly interested in reducing that risk to myself, my bigger concern was that I worked in a hospital (although with no direct patient contact) and I took the bus to and from work every day, so I had many points of potential exposure. Both of my parents were severely immunocompromised, my dad with diabetes and my mom with cancer and several rounds of treatments. I would never have forgiven myself if I'd killed one of them by bringing home the flu.

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This is the most reasonable post on here. That was her whole damn point! Science worked and in the end the worry wasn't worth it for her!

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Cases up deaths remaining largely the same since June . Stop the fear mongering

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You are wrong.

From the end of July into October, we had a steady 10-20 deaths per day most days. Over the past month, we've moved into the 30's. Now in the past week, we've gone over 40 a few times.

Cases are up, hospitalizations are up, and deaths, the lagging statistic, are slowly increasing behind them, even as our great medical professionals and scientists continue to decrease mortality through better medical interventions.

And death is far from the only adverse outcome of becoming infected by this virus.

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I noticed this version was edited by the host. Earlier version read ‘south of Boston’ when describing Pope John Paul Park. Why was this edited? Perhaps an attempt to preserve the good doctors credibility.

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Although I can understand how somebody not familiar with Dorchester might not realize the park is actually in Boston (similar to the way most people don't know/care where the line is between Dedham and West Roxbury heading to the region's newest Popeyes), I do know where the park is and figured I'd be accurate in my post.

A couple of weeks ago, I did the same thing when BFD identified the Jamaica Plain church that had some "coping stones" fall off the facade as Sacred Heart when it was really Blessed Sacrament; it's just easier to use the right name and not make a big deal about a mistake like that (hmm, what writer recently referred to Holy Name in West Roxbury as Sacred Heart?).

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Do as I say, not as I do.

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