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State says re-opening schools in the fall will mean limiting classrooms to ten students


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I wonder how the public schools are going to handle this edict. Ten kids is more or less a third of a public school class.

They can't hire 200% more teachers. They can't build 200% more classrooms. Given union contracts, they can't even move to three shifts.

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At least at the HS level. (Teachers teach 4 classes a day instead of 5). I do think though sock puppet that the goal is to have 20 kids per class in most classes. So I’m guessing they were trying to halve it somehow. Also have no idea how the hell they are going to do this.

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Shorter days.

Just like happens when there is a big fire or other emergency that reduces school capacity.

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Can I sign my HS student up for the 11-7 shift?

Too bad remote learning seems to be ineffective - splitting cohorts into two groups with one group learning at distance each day might be the best option.

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It's been ineffective for many of the students who've been suddenly thrown into it with teachers and parents who also have suddenly been thrown in.

But kids who are either homeschooled and take a number of their classes via Outschool and similar, or online college courses, or who attend the public and private online schools do as well as their peers and often better. It makes a difference when you have students who prefer home-based learning, teachers who are accustomed to teaching this way, and parents who are accustomed to supporting it.

Next year might look like having a lot of students whose families have generally been on the fence about alternative schooling doing home/online learning, rather than the current state where everyone has been thrown into it. Jobs are going to be more flexible, as places have learned that not everyone needs to be in the building all the time and remote is possible. A ton of parents who have always felt their student would be better suited to homeschooling or having their kids in online charter school are looking into it since they can now work from home.

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I value our public schools more than ever now. But my wife's lifestyle and mine couldn't support a good home school setting no matter how hard we try. Of course we are used to the system that is set up for us.

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The problem isn't the kids with involved parents who are already interested in charters or home schooling. The problem is delivering a decent education to kids who don't have a good family support system. Those are the kids being failed by online learning from what I've read.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/23/metro/more-than-one-five-boston-p...

I don't doubt there are many kids/families who like and want more home school options but I don't think that serves the majority of BPS kids at either end of the achievement spectrum.

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Kids who aren't doing well with online learning will opt to go back. But many of the families I work with (who are all over the economic and family stability spectrum) are finding their kids are doing better with the current setup, even if they're ones whose BPS teachers haven't really grasped how to effectively teach online. Many of these families welcome having an easily available and officially sanctioned option for online schooling and are planning on doing some type of homeschooling/online schooling in the fall.

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In some cases, it doesn't matter how involved the parents are or how great the support system is. What works for middle school and high school does NOT work for elementary school, especially the youngest grades.

Teaching reading is HARD. Teaching writing can feel impossible. My first grader with ADHD and motor skills delays has none of the support at home that he had at school. He would rather be playing and he makes it known. He is also desperately missing social interactions with other kids because he is an only child. I haven't been able to meaningfully work in 3 months, and I'm afraid my employer will, at some point, have less patience for my lack of attention to work. If that time comes, I will be another mother forced to choose between my child's future and my job, which will mean having to leave the workforce to fail at teaching my child how to read and write.

I am not a teacher. We are not in post-apocalyptic circumstances where schools have been bombed and there are no teachers left to teach. The state NEEDS to come up with better ideas.

This situation is not sustainable.

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I am so sorry to hear this. Yes, I am seeing this too. Some students are receiving all or most of their IEP services via zoom and e-mailed activities, and their families are feeling very supported. Many are even saying they are making more progress in the calmer environment. And then I have others who have not heard a peep from the OT, SLP, counselor, etc. who are on their IEP. The therapists are obviously still working and being paid by the district, so how is this happening?

If it's helpful, most of the local hospitals are doing telehealth services. I have kids in my family and who I see professionally who are getting OT and speech through insurance and are meeting consistently via zoom. I don't know about waitlists, but it could be worth a try. It really sucks though that the schools aren't doing what they're required to do. Obviously there will be hiccups, but I don't understand why some people have literally heard nothing from a professional who is assigned to them. Super illegal.

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Online school stats are really screwed by the kinds of kids who are in online school. Many kids need a lot of support from an adult while they are learning - many have diagnoses learning disabilities, others mental health issues that affect how motivated they are. Those kids generally don’t do well in online classes, and if public schools ignore that they’ll be hit with a million lawsuits.

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I really hope a schools take this opportunity to change start times. The only reason against later morning start times is how difficult and expensive it is to change how things are done. This epidemic is forcing massive and expensive changes, that might as well be one of them.

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How many hours does the teacher contract say they work? Divide that by three to find out how many hours the students get. Two, maybe?

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I specifically said "shorter days" for each shift.

This isn't unusual in a crisis situation, nor is it a new idea. When Medford HS partially burned down while the new HS was not yet completed, they went to split shifts and shortened days to manage when 60% of the classrooms had been destroyed.

One of the complaints my young men had about high school was that too much time was spent on classroom instruction and changing classes, too little on actually figuring things out.

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There should be shorter days anyway, like there was when I was in school in the 60s and 70s. Truth be told, we actually need less compulsory schooling, not more.

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Sure they can.

Swap budgets with the police.

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Is she still in Minneapolis? BPS should be giving regular updates to families during this time and planning for multiple scenarios. After Riley made this statement, Ms Cassellius should have had her own prepared regarding what it means Boston is doing. She also needs to be here to get real work on eliminating busing done. Instead, each School Committee meeting is focused on the right now and oddly, making sure teachers clock in and out. Remote learning is not working for most kids. And massive thoughtful change will be required to support our kids. Bueller?

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Not split shifts. Nowhere near enough time to clean and disinfect between. .. and even if shorter shifts for students, that would mean much longer days for the teachers.
I suspect it would have to mean alternating days (or weeks)

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The sanitation issue is important.

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Students will have to have remote school part time. 1/3 kids come to school each day, the other two thirds are home doing homework. So a student might come to school Monday and Thursday one week, then Tuesday and Friday the next. I teach at a high school that has an absurd rotating schedule and this would honestly be an easier schedule to get used to. It would also be 100x better than completely remote school. Of course I’m still really weary of having school at all without a vaccine, especially given how many of my coworkers are 50, 60+ years old.

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In all likelihood, this means students going back to school 2-3 days a week, with some amount of remote learning becoming the norm. There's no way to fit the current population of students into existing school infrastructure at 10 kids per class. To say nothing of the budget strain of basically doubling the number of teachers in BPS to get from a 20-1 to a 10-1 ratio.

We're so fucked. COVID is still going to be majorly disrupting our lives a year from now.

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COVID is still going to be majorly disrupting our lives a year from now.

Try five.

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Regardless of what happens, there will be articles written in the Globe dragging Latin for not solving these issues for the district.

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Seriously, how the fuck are working parents supposed to do this?

Many families are already experiencing financial problems and this will make working that much harder. This is torture.

So are are allowed to have massive protests (not saying we shouldn't btw), but our kids can't go back to school. FUCK THIS!!

I bet real estate agents in Southern NH are going to be busy. People are going to revolt over this

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I will be interested to see the guidance for special education; and I'm disappointed those guidelines were not yet included. Also, while these guides make sense on paper, I don't know how possible it would be to implement them.

This was a good paper on the subject: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766822

"School systems should make on-site education a high priority for youth who experience barriers to remote learning, students who receive special education services or nutritional support at school, and younger children (for whom online learning may be particularly challenging)."

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These are preliminary guidelines.

Many systems can't handle 10 kids per class, because there is not enough room. 12 to 15 per class with split sessions (day on / day off / day on / day off) was the unofficial working plan until someone who apparently only teaches out in Huntington or Worthington came up with the idea for 10 only.

Remote learning is not working on many levels, despite many educators best efforts. My wife is working harder than ever to try to keep kids engaged. The Globe has pointed out that a lot of kids have just stopped any type of school work. Having a school supplied chromebook is great but if Mom and Dad are too busy to encourage it to be opened because they are working 12 hours a day, it hurts the kid academically down the line.

At least with 12 to 15 in a class you can keep kids apart with reason and teach the socialization part, which is also a big aspect of learning. Have you noticed there are not a lot of University of Phoenix Nobel Laureates out there? The socialization of utes is a lot of what learning is all about.

Besides, after school when five kids hop into a senior's car because the school bus capacity has been cut for distancing purposes, or they all congregate later in the day, that kind of defeats the whole social distancing thing.

Expect the Governor, who is ready to be chopped into pieces by a lot of the business community start to feel the wrath of a lot of parents very soon. If 10 per class stays the rule, don't expect a lot of schools to open in the fall.

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University of Phoenix doesn't suck because it's distance learning. It sucks because it sucks.

There are elite online gifted schools. There are online courses offered at top universities. There are plenty of homeschooled students at Ivy League schools. Homeschoolers generally take in-person classes, just not run through a school. Homeschoolers also go to the YMCA, music lessons, the park, sports teams, etc., just like everyone else. Being successful and healthy and happy doesn't have to involve being in a school building 6 hours a day. It can be done more creatively than this. This Covid thing may well result in us providing more tailored and appropriate hybrid options for kids with giftedness, learning disabilities, social-emotional disabilities, etc.

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Very bright kids.

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Have Two Parent Households and Upper Income Demographic and College Educated profiles.

Find me the Scripps winner living in an lower tier apartment community in a down market urban or down market suburban environment that has a parent working at 7-11 or at Dollar Tree and get back to me.

Just because you have a few home schooled kid who does great things, there are many, many, many more that crave the structure that a school building environment gives. My wife had one kid travelling 90 miles a day round trip in order to keep the school structure he had.

The lockdown has also blocked a lot of initial reporting for child abuse, since teachers are the front line workers (and the first responders) on a lot of social situations that kids are facing.

Don't give me that homeschool is better crap. Adam Lanza was home schooled. That did not turn out too well last time I checked.

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Homeschooled kids at all income and parental education levels do well overall.

Most of the perpetrators of mass shootings attended public schools. What's your point exactly?

Also, read up on abuse and neglect reporting. Most reports are unfounded and more reporting doesn't equal more safety and just clogs up the system. NCCPR has done some great coverage of this. The most at-risk families are connected with services and are engaging with providers via telehealth and are getting referred to increasing levels of care if they need it. The (very rare, but very real) families who engage in severe abuse don't have their children in schools in the first place. They're also not in homeschooling programs, online schooling, YMCA, sports teams, etc. They don't generally see doctors or really see anyone at all. This has been the pattern in nearly all the cases of severe abuse.

Making unresearched claims about homeschooling and alternative schooling doesn't help the kids whose parents are hiding them and not in fact homeschooling. But it could get in the way of the many normal and functional families whose kids are in nontraditional programs.

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Do you have a spouse who works in a school?

Do you hear daily about the struggles of kids caught up in this maelstrom from a primary source (i.e - my wife)?

Do you hear about other kids are struggling with home schooling from other teachers and parents?

Do you have a nephew that works for DCF who sees first hand the abuse going on in some houses?

I don't need to read the research. I hear about it all the time. You sound like an advocate for some cult that thinks isolating children in learning environments catered to the non-general population somehow is the wave of the future, or worse you sound like one of those elderly people who say since they don't have anyone in a public school, why should they pay for it.

Academic reports from some ivory tower are one thing, being at the base of the tower is a different world than a pdf with statistics and graphs.

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My spouse is a public-school teacher actually, but not sure what that has to do with anything.

I'm a clinician who works with families involved in schools, DCF, DSS, DMH, medical system, etc. I do psych evals and family evals and work with families and their service providers to find the most appropriate school program and outside services. I also am a clinical supervisor for a team of clinicians who do case management for these kids and are in constant contact with their schools and other service providers.

I don't have recent academia experience, as it's been nearly a decade since I've been a professor, so I can't really comment on that end of things, other than to say that I do keep up on the basics as it's important that our work is informed by research. For instance, when I recommend homeschooling to a family, I am able to base this on homeschooling research, rather than saying that they should not homeschool because Adam Lanza was homeschooled. When I recommend a placement at a chapter 766 school, I can discuss research and best practices and why it's the best option for what we're seeing. When I recommend a neighborhood public school, I can give research and clinical expertise for how we're going to make it work. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think children should be isolated in cults, since I in fact said the exact opposite, that that's the pattern we see in severe abuse cases (on which I've done evals and given expert testimony), and is nothing like the dynamics seen in most homeschooling families.

What do you do?

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is a professional shit-stirrer, and a dispenser of advice that is simple, common-sense, and completely wrong.

After all, what are your "science" and "medicine" when compared to the simple wonder of a child, who I just made up for this folksy analogy.

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Eeka isn’t cloistered. She’s just persistently benevolent to a degree you lack the courage for, despite a close and daily familiarity with our society’s ills.

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This thread is moot. Homeschooling has nothing to do with this topic. In homeschooling a parent becomes the teacher. That is not the case here. Our parents are the same parents, with the same jobs, not homeschool teachers.

Trying to guide your child through their distance learning plan and going through the process to become a homeschool teacher are not synonymous.

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Yes, I, too, have been frustrated by some of the homeschooling comparisons people have made. I am hearing professionals who are not versed in home education thinking that their current state of being home 24/7 with no in-person learning is just like homeschooling, and using their pandemic experience as a reason to say homeschooling should be outlawed, since they're seeing the detrimental effects of being home 24/7. During non-pandemic times, most homeschoolers do take classes at various places, are on sports teams, in music lessons, and are seeing other people in-person frequently. In addition to my professional experience with education, I have had kids in my home in just about every type of schooling available, including both homeschooling (registered through the city as a homeschooler, parent is responsible for making sure student gets educated) and online public charter (the school is responsible for the student's education and the parent is just responsible for getting them there like in any public school). The types of schooling have all been much more similar to one another than pandemic schooling, where we don't ever see anyone else in person. My homeschooled kids were following routines, doing their hygiene every morning, had a busy weekly schedule that involved traveling all over to classes. My family's life during the pandemic is...not like this (I say, about to head to a clinical interview in my pajamas).

And yes, the whole thing about who is responsible for the student's education matters. In true homeschooling, the parent is. The parent either is the student's teacher, or hires/barters with others to be the teachers of various subjects. The pandemic schooling is more similar to the online public charters in this way; the parent is not devising curriculum, hiring teachers, signing the student up for classes, etc. In most situations though, the parent is doing much more "teaching" than they would be in the online schools, because the public school teachers have been suddenly thrown into this and are not online education professionals the way the teachers are the public and private online schools are. But they still are not "homeschooling" unless they've pulled their child out and registered as a homeschooler.

The point I am making in relation to smaller class sizes though is that I do think it will work itself out. I am seeing a lot of families whose students have been in traditional public school where it wasn't a great fit, and their student is now doing a lot more work via online school. Of course there are the downsides to being home 24/7, but these will become lesser once things open up and we again have access to more in the way of sports, field trips, etc. and their schooling will look more like regular homeschooling or online schooling. Many of these families are now looking into TECCA/MAVA for next year, or are considering homeschooling. They previously knew their students benefitted from a calmer, quieter learning environment without all the transitions and chaos, but families were afraid to do it, because they know that crap happens just like we're seeing in this thread, where someone decides students doing online school or homeschool are being held captive by a cult member. Poorer families especially don't want to take the risk. With a lot more families opting not to send their kids back this fall, it's going to be more visible and normalized, and people will hopefully realize that deciding to do online school for a year isn't anything strange or harmful in and of itself.

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It is true that Covid-driven school at. home is not at all like homeschooling. I've been homeschooling for over 20 years and, yes, there are homeschoolers at Ivy Leagues (2 of mine, so far) and there are wonderful K-12 online classes, too. The companies that do it best (online), have been doing it online for almost 2 decades. They have worked out the kinks. Their classes are far better than what many kids are getting through their school. Homeschoolers are the original "meet in small groups to learn and study, with or without a tutor". This is how we've been thriving academically and socially for many, many years. What schools say they will offer this next school seems to offer all of the risk with none of the real benefits. No real freedom. It is sad, but there is also opportunity in this for those who can recognize it and act on it ...
Peace and best wishes to all ~

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Besides, after school when five kids hop into a senior's car because the school bus capacity has been cut for distancing purposes, or they all congregate later in the day, that kind of defeats the whole social distancing thing.

You bet. As soon as places 'relaxed' a bit, people relaxed.

I see more congregation and less face masks over faces these days.

I went to home depot today, no social distancing AT ALL. Sure they protect their cashiers, but the line to check out goes from the Pro Counter to the OPPOSITE END OF THE STORE. And you think there's 6 feet between each person. a big NOPE.

The T is no better. People are going back to work, the 117 to HD and the 116 were so crowded. Of course not being able to use half the bus doesn't help.

The T will 'add service', right. In a few weeks they are going to have no other choice than to go back to "full service" because so many people will be back to work (and the buses and trains will be too crowded for them to continue Saturday like service). Sure office peeps aren't working yet but you bet those hotel and service workers are on the T.

And Thats just two places, won't talk about the bodegas near me, or the paint store, or the discount store.... Social Distancing and store limits are just not happening.

We've already defeating social distancing.. sure our numbers are down, but more waves are coming. It is already being seen in GA and FL where they reopened too early. I'm not research scientist but just by reading the news, by Mid July, we won't be far behind.

And let's not even THINK 2 weeks of protests. Not alot of social distancing going on there.

Social Distancing is a joke. People only care about themselves and themselves. Thing #99234123 we've realized how awful we are during this pandemic.

Summer 2020 is shaping up to be fabulous. Thank gosh I'm building a green screen in my house, so i can go places like downtown, yet never leave my house.

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The 10 student limit was chosen for medical safety reasons. Schools classrooms arent big enough to have 15 kids in them safely.

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Parental anxiety is strikingly evident in recent polls, including one released last month by USA Today/Ipsos. Elected officials should find it sobering that six in 10 parents say they are likely to continue home learning instead of sending their kids back to school this fall. One in five teachers say they are unlikely to return to their classrooms. And when parents and teachers are considered together, about four in 10 oppose returning to school at all until a coronavirus vaccine is available — in other words, possibly years from now.

From this article in The New York Times.

Are 40-60% of the population cultist nutjobs who are going to isolate their kids in the attic for years? Or are they just normal families who, for various reasons, are going to homeschool or enroll in public/private online schools?

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When we defund the police and kick 1/2 of the cops out on their ass that should free up plenty of money to hire a ton of teachers!

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Some cities and towns will be forced to layoff teachers and there will be fifty kids to a classroom.

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Looking at my rosters for next year...I've got 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, and 15 (a different course than the 30).

I have 10 tables that can be put maybe 18 inches apart from each other.

Guess this'll be fun.

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We can have as many as we like per classroom. Right?

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i’m sure you’re talking about the protests against mask wearing

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But the ones protesting to open things up are not good, according to some.
The other ones are fine.
The virus knows which is which I guess.
I'll play it safe and stay away from crowds.

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Racism is one of the biggest root causes of ill health in the United States, and has been for decades.

Poverty is another big one.

Many of the people out protesting are in the COVID crosshairs either way because they work those low wage "essential" jobs and states won't let them claim unemployment if they don't want to be highly exposed. If you give someone nothing to lose ... this is what you get.

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But they went further:

However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission,” the letter continued. “We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States.”

“This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders, those actions not only oppose public health interventions, but are also rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives.”

COVID-19 doesn't give a hoot why people are out and in crowds, people do though.

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Why don't you take a trip downtown and kneel at the feet of the Nat'l Guard at TJ Maxx and not worry about this other stuff? It's clearly too much for you to process.

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Maybe I should get into the kitchen?

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You seem scared and are lashing out. Kneeling at a soldiers feet, assuming you can't find someone from the fed. prison system militia, might make you feel better?

You don't strike me as someone who can cook TBH.

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Is that what you call an opinion you don't agree with?
I'm an excellent cook by the way, we are having Gnocchi and Sausages with garlic bread and a nice garden salad tonight. Yummy.

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Misogyny ain't cool bro.

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That reminds me of the year the St Patricks Day Parade was labelled a Protest Parade to get around the court order to include LGBT groups.

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ugh. I feel sorry for the kids.

This is what AZ is doing..Source

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZIJPoXU4AAM6Xj?format=png&name=small )

Plastic. So much plastic.

What the 'BZ article doesn't say is really what the 10 size limit means.

In Sweden, as my boss has told me, They are moving to on/off days. Each kid only goes on certain days and does remote learning the other. Its a balance. But in Sweden remote learning already happens.. then again my boss lives on an island in the Baltic and has 1Gbp fiber to her home, as does most of Sweden.

This 1985B timeline, have Marty and the Doc finally returned from 1885 or 1955 yet?

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Is how we are going to catch a generation of kids up to already insufficient standards starting in Fall 2022 when we, realistically, should have a mostly normal school year.

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My daughter's middle school has 17 kids per class. There's no way on earth that they can distance them 6 feet apart in the classrooms that exist, and there aren't any "extra" classrooms in the building (either elementary or middle).

We've been getting updates from our steering committee for fall; it's looking increasingly like "live" and "remote" days for first trimester. And probably having some kind of timed entry, so that they can have kids enter/exit through the emergency doors closest to their classrooms rather than all come in through the main doors into the lobby in the same half hour like normal.

Both Museum of Science and Museum of Fine Arts have cancelled their summer courses. Our other day camps look like they're going virtual (since they all involve "changing classes and mixing with different campers in each class").

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IMAGE(//spoonfeedz.com/images/58edffce8feaa.jpg)

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Music teacher a la cart in a low economic school, here. My largest class side was a 1st grade classroom of 36 one year. Every room, even the closet I shared with the art teacher, was used for instruction (one-on-one instruction in the closet).

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