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Pack roamed downtown, robbing and beating people
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Comments
Too bad Massachusetts is a de
Too bad Massachusetts is a de-facto gun free zone and people are more scared of gun laws than a pack of teens. Seems like a great example of where high capacity mags would have been helpful.
Yes, that's just what we need
A shootout on a crowded downtown street. How many innocent bystanders you suppose would wind up getting shot? I think I'll take my chances with the trained officers of the BPD. No, they're not everywhere, but we're hardly a Chicago-style shooting gallery, either.
As a worker in that neighborhood
Thank you for not packing.
Besides, a more likely scenario than Dirty Harry Saves The Day and corners 20 kids with his Manly American Weapon would be getting your gun taken away by an overwhelming number of thugs and then fired indiscriminately into local buildings "for fun".
Actually, I have voice
Actually, I have voice disagreement if only because I really don't think it would go down like that in this scenario. Not trying to be some expert, but I think we can both agree that the first reaction would be some type of panic. A panic situation would mean they probably won't coordinate too well to use their number to overwhelm. I would guess two scenarios. If the kids have a gun, they would start shooting in panic. If they don't, it would break down to a panicked rout, with a chance some may choose to rush which with what happens after depends if the person would shoot or not.
Also, I have to remember there's kinda similar case that happen in history. Most notably Bernhard Goetz. Though the attacking group is 4 instead of 20, I would imagine the aftermath including the media circus would be similar.
No matter who was doing the shooting
The likelihood that shots would go into occupied buildings or non-thug bystanders is still quite high. Even after hours, there are startups on Arch where people work late, hotels, and restaurants in the area, as well as MBTA entrances.
Bernie Goetz wasn't attacked
He was asked for 5 dollars. Get your facts straight.
yeah, asked
doubt the thugs said "please." More like "gimme" with a menacing lean-in.
Goetz wasn't so righteous after shoot
He fled out of state, burnt his clothes and destroyed his gun.
And when interrogated said he had murder in his heart when fringe repeatedly. And wished he had more bullets even though any, even perceived, threat had been neutralized.
Not a shining example of defensive gun use.
And let me preempt any talk of how his acquittal justuied behavior. Not guilty doesn't equal innocent or right.
I'm not second guessing his jury but I also understand that another jury, like the one in his civil case, could have easily found him guilty.
Hate to break it to you but
Hate to break it to you but most BPD officers don't train anywhere near often enough for the danger the present to the public. Passing their easy yearly qualification is the most range time many officers put in and that is SCARY.
Plus they obviously don't
Plus they obviously don't really care if a bunch of teenagers are beating on you.
And you know this how?
if you're going to impugn the officers of BPD, I'd want some proof.
You're the source.
You're the source.
It's a good thing anon is
It's a good thing anon is here, providing us with his (presumably) expert advice on law enforcement. Without even needing to ask, I'm sure anon can provide well-researched data about what the "danger present to the public" is and how exactly the officers don't train enough for it.
I don't think anyone said shoot them
Just sticking the barrel of a gun in someone's face is enough to change their attitude.
While 19 of their friends
Grab for the gun. Then it either gets fired in a random direction during a struggle (with no shortage of possible collateral damage opportunities), or wrestled away and turned on the citizen or the next wilding target.
Sounds like a pretty grandiose My Gun Is All Powerful and Will Repel All Evil fantasy.
Yes and no
Emergency services like the police spend hours upon hours learning how to deploy their weapons accurately in a fast-paced and frenzied situation. People who go target shooting every few weekends do not.
I do support responsible gun ownership, but I think people grossly understimate the amount of skill and mental training it requires to respond properly to an emergency.
Police are more special than
Police are more special than others? Watertown proved otherwise. Some special units yes. Most beat cops no.
Highly trained
They showed that in Watertown when the fired hundreds of rounds and only barely succeeded in wounding the two suspects and managed to shoot one of their own officers because they had zero restraint. They're extremely lucky they didn't hit someone inside their own house.
Situations like Watertown and the Dorner manhunt in California showed that the police are hardly more qualified than anyone else to have firearms.
Street Robbers vs. Terrorists
Will get a different response by police or any human being trying to protect their property or family.
Most street thugs will either run or completely stop what they are doing if they see a police cruiser with police officers pull up to them. The guns don't really have little to do with the police action in the majority of police interactions with criminals like these street thugs.
I hope this is trolling
I hope this is trolling because otherwise you need help.
What's it like for you having
What's it like for you having a vigilante fetish?
No need fot that
But a nightsick to the skull, heavy boot to the ribs or some other arrest facilitation technique would have definitely helped. That was completely animal-like behavior, and animals only understand fear. And let's face it, none of them are afraid of "dat bitch-ass cracka in a robe."
Forget about innocent bystanders
you could lose your junk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2IiacbVGA
In before thinly veiled racist comments!
.
I believe that's called
"projecting"....
buncha 15 year olds. glad
buncha 15 year olds. glad they caught some
When are we going to get serious
about stuff like this, and crack down hard? Why is it not bigger news? The 'yoots' need to be dealt with HARSHLY.
Because it really (in that
Because it really (in that neighborhood, my neighborhood) does not happen that often?
I hope they press these kids
I hope they press these kids hard and punish everyone involved to he fullest extent of the law. This is the type of animal behavior citizens of any city should be protected from. Frankly we're lucky none of these delinquents ended up shot to death.
I'd say we're unfortunate
I'd say we're unfortunate that none of them were
Since some of those arrested were from Mattapan.....
Can we get DRM to proffer a consulting contract on how to deal with these young girls? Bruce? Geno? Are you out there? Help!
That's way worse
Than supposed adults from "better" neighborhoods holding beat downs on the T.
I'm hoping for a decrease in anti social behavior in general
I don't care if you are white and an adult from Quincy or South Boston or, I am assuming an African American 15 year old from Mattapan. What I would like to do is ride the T and walk through DTX without fear of morons and beat downs.
Not too much to ask for in this fair city.
actually,
as long as a judge can look at an alleged perp who is currently out on bail for a similar violent offense, not see the connection and continue "catch and release"? Yes, it IS too much to ask.
Troubling....
Thank you for highlighting this story, Adam...I read about this in yesterday's Globe, buried in the Metro section. As someone who works in the Downtown Crossing area, and is there sometimes late at night, this is troubling. If I'm there late, I use the usual street smarts and stay aware of my surroundings, but don't know what I'd do if I encountered a large group of teens bent on violence....will think twice about staying late at the office in the weeks ahead.
Why did it take so long to
Why did it take so long to notice and respond to a large mob causing mayhem?
Roll Up The Sidewalks
Part of the problem is that the second the office workers rush home much of the Downtown and Financial districts become like a ghost town.
The area is slowly changing to include some residences. And there are a small number of late night restaurants and bars in the area. But at street level at that time of night much of the frontage consists of empty storefronts, closed storefronts, food places only open for lunch crowd thus closed already, or office building lobbies which might have a single security guard on duty if at all.
The only people around to witness said mob were the victims of it. And after your cell phone is stolen its a little hard to call police...
There is a pretty visible police presence in the area during the afternoons but once the crowds disperse as the sun goes down so too do the police.
Yeah. And once Filene's
Yeah. And once Filene's closed, it became even more of one.
I used to go to the Chinatown Y, and if I was going there from my office after dark I would take the T the three quick stops from State, just to avoid walking Washington Street by myself.
The 80s called...
They want their crime back. Didn't this type of "wilding" go on in New York in the 80s?
Yes, there was crime in New York in the '70s and '80s
But the fact that the Central Park jogger case (where the word came from) was so noteworthy shows that even then, it was the exception, not the rule (except for the night of the 1977 blackout, perhaps, when, yes, large sections of the city went completely nuts, but then the object was more looting than attacking random strangers)
Except the Central Park Jogger case itself ....
... turned out NOT to involve a roving pack of thugs, but a lone rapist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case
Warriooooors! Come out and
Warriooooors! Come out and plaaa-e-ayy!!!
great parenting
I think it's time we start holding the parents accountable for the children's actions. Start taking away parts of govt assistance from the junior criminals and see how quickly the families become actual parents.
Right
Let's punish the poor for being poor and punish and punish and punish them more and more!
That will solve all of our problems!
In the OLD DAYS before government assistance these things never happened, amirite. We just had packs of "street urchins" robbing people on such a regular basis such that it wasn't news.
Let's punish the criminals.
Let's punish the criminals.
Indeed
Punish the criminals.
Not their families.
In Boston
a lot of the time the two are one in the same.
Being poor is no excuse for
Being poor is no excuse for anti social behavior.
Nope
But it is frequently the cause.
yeah, let's continue the current policies
because they are working so well. Wait until the first kid shoots a cop and a "community organizer" seizes upon the stop and frisk response as institutional racism. Marty's first summer could be a long, hot one.
Wow
Keep commenting - I've almost got BINGO!
It is in Massachusetts and
It is in Massachusetts and for people like swirly girl.
How do you know if they were poor?
Twenty kids, I'm betting at least a couple are from middle class families.
What evidence do you have
What evidence do you have that they were poor?
Why is this about being "poor?"
This is criminal behavior, not "poor" behavior. And frankly the people it affects the most are other poor kids--and black kids wearing hoodies--who AREN'T out terrorizing people and stealing stuff. The more stuff like this happens, the more reason people people feel justified to stereotype and discriminate. Please don't talk as it's just "poor kids bring poor" any more than rich suburban kids trashing hotel rooms or vandalizing graveyards is "rich kids being rich."
Punish the people who can't control themselves, then
The post that I responded to advocated punishment for people who weren't doing crimes. The original poster was saying to punish parents and families by starving them if they were receiving aid.
Even though we know nothing of their situation, that poster assumed they were all on welfare. Statistically, that isn't all that likely.
Punishment such as taking away food stamps and the like because somebody was working and couldn't ride herd on their kid 24/7 is ridiculous. It also sets up a situation where families receiving aid are harshly punished, while other familes are not - in other words, punished for being poor.
Lemme see...
I'm going to guess that you are of the opinion that poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough.
I'm going to guess that the parent doesn't supervise their kid enough because they're too busy working extra jobs because they're poor and want to live up to your ideals on how to stop being poor.
I'm going to guess that even if they are working extra and not around for their kids enough that they may still be on government assistance because they're poor.
And you think that taking away government assistance in that situation will make it MORE likely that they will have MORE time to spend with their kids as a result?
Are you sure you've thought this one through?
Somehow the herald
Hasn't gotten a hold of this story yet. I'm shocked. This is story hits all the elements that they just dream about. The comment section on it will surely be vile and make me lose faith in humanity (as always). Undoubtedly someone will blame Obama for this too. Oh the herald....
Marty Walsh is sure doing a
Marty Walsh is sure doing a bang up job. Murders are up and now this.
I can't believe Walsh
is murdering people, running the streets assaulting citizens, allowing turkeys to take over and parking in front of fire hydrants. He is getting away with more than a conservative congressman in a hotel hallway.
Right, because obviously the
Right, because obviously the Mayor should be everywhere at all times and should have donned his bat suit and rappelled down the side of 101 Arch Street to stop this.
he is the one giving bank
he is the one giving bank robbers a raise tho...
He
did bail out Wall Street in 2008&9 so yeah he's out-a control.
I work on Summer Street and
I work on Summer Street and take the bus home right from the Otis/Summer street stop, where someone was assaulted. This story is all anyone is talking about in my office, this has people pretty freaked out. A lot of us work flexible hours and sometimes work late, and a number of my colleagues happened to see a lot of this go down from the window overlooking Summer street. I'd like to know what BPD plans to do to make people feel safe around here, because honestly reading the description of what happened has me on edge.
THIS IS WHY....
I carry a blade when i walk around the city......TRUST ME: A few teeny-boppers from that pack would have been leaking if they tried that routine on me. As long as the Silver,Red & Orange still run to Ashmont, Mattapan and Roxbury those youths will be out there. BE AWARE PEOPLE
Riiiiigggghhhhttt
Tell us all what you would have done, while ignoring the 20:1 ratio of thugs to knife. Let us know what your next heroic move would be when it turned out that several of them had knives too ... or took your knife away.
Tell 'em good, Rambo.
DTC gangs
This quote from the globe is interesting
While the teenagers swarmed down Arch Street, McNamara said he saw a male he believed to be part of the group, standing some distance away at the intersection of Arch and Summer streets. This person was watching the violence unfold, while holding closely onto a female McNamara believed was his girlfriend.
Suddenly, the male shouted, McNamara said.
“He just shouted, ‘We out!’ and everyone broke,’’ said McNamara. “They all left.’’
McNamara said that once the swarm flowed past him, he rushed into a nearby 7-11 store, where he called the police.
Do we have a Fagin running his gang of pickpockets? Wouldn't be the the first time.
Downtown Attacks
I'm wondering why the race of both assailants and victims aren't mentioned? It does matter. Greatly.
One other interrogative. Where are the Reverends Wall and Rivers on this? It sounds like some members of the flock have strayed.
Another blatant example of the double standard.
Have a nice weekend everyone.
Surveillance videos?
Likely there are private and public surveillance cameras in the area. Will the BPD review the tapes?
During the mayoral campaign, Bob Consalvo supported establishing a registry of private surveillance devices. It's a good idea.
Where is the mainstream media on this?
I am trying to figure out why this disturbing incident is not a bigger media story.
Wonder if it
was some kind of initiation thing, given it had a ringleader not involved in attack calling shots.
The drunks are not just outside anymore
FWIW I was in the Downtown Crossing subway station late last night after studying. A drunk woman walked into me, got mad at me, proceeded to follow me around the station yelling at me, and then threw a drink at me. Luckily no property damage (my laptop and phone were fine) or physical harm. They really can't fix Government Center fast enough so I can avoid this area. It's a shame.