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Does Adrian Walker's column offer any new insights on the deaths of two firefighters in West Roxbury?
By adamg on Tue, 02/26/2008 - 8:53am
No.
Compare his column with Peter Gelzinis's column on Saturday, when this was all still breaking news.
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The report
Here:
http://www.cityofboston.gov/fire/pdfs/BOI_Report.pdf
is a link to the actual report.
It is an 8 MB pdf. It includes a lot of info, time lines, a narrative and many photographs. For those that would comment here, please at least skim the report. The photos are interesting, Warren Payne's gear is pictured and there are lots of photos and diagrams of the fire scene.
The Globe makes much of cherry picked statements, out of ignorance (in the technical term) of how things are done at a fire scene. It is important to remember that the restaurant was clear of smoke when the first companies pulled up. I myself would not be wearing a facepiece under those conditions, air bottles are severely limited and I want to save it for when I really need it as well as the fact that the facepieces severely limit your vision.
The fire burned for a while above the ceiling and when the oxygen hit it it literally slammed the ceiling down when it exploded.
The BOI report is accurate and can be taken as carefully researched fact.
Please feel free to at least look at it, then voice your opinion. Is it incomplete? Not for me to say, but the fireground aspect of it is very painstakingly researched.
It is NOT a whitewash, by any standards.
You're not being entirely accurate
The fire burned for a while above the ceiling and when the oxygen hit it it literally slammed the ceiling down when it exploded.
I have read the report. When oxygen hit the superheated gases in the ceiling space, it became a blowtorch. The local explosion of material sent some shrapnel across the room, but the ceiling did not just slam down and certainly didn't slam down on Cahill. He was found entangled in debris from the kitchen. But in the photos in the report the debris is general kitchen debris and not roofing materials. The HVAC didn't begin sinking until after the fire loosened the roof about 7-10 minutes after the explosion event.
I don't doubt that the explosion event wasn't a violent one; it took the water from the hose and sprayed it across the room to hit one officer in the face. But it wasn't like Cahill wasn't moving after the explosion. There is evidence in the report that he began following the hose and then they lost contact with him when he ended up following it the wrong direction. He had no radio (left at the firehouse) to signal out, only his PASS device, and he never put his facemask on (not only on entering, but subsequently as well.
FF Cahill WAS wearing his facepiece
There are so many things wrong with your statement it is hard to know where to begin. The ceiling in the dining room did in fact slam down due to a pressure release. Every ceiling tile in the dining room came down at once. The photos of the kitchen DO show the sheet metal stamped ceiling did come down in the kitchen. FF Cahill did have his facepiece on, his tank was empty and the purge valve was on. When FF Cahill was found his facepiece was found with him.
I will check again
I will have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the BOI report said that his facepiece was found off of his face with the straps loose and soot-covered on the inside of it. The photos of the roof show a section of the roof down, but the remainder held intact up and that was not where they placed Cahill at the time of fighting the fire. The dining room is not where Cahill was, that was where Payne was. The previous poster was talking about Cahill in the kitchen. I also said his radio was not present, I know his facepiece was found with him (although as I said, I think it was found off of his face).
I don't have time now to recheck those facts, I'll do it later. Either way, your attempt to address my comments on the report do not address what I said directly (for example, I said nothing about the dining room).
Depends on what you definition of a 'whitewash' is
The purpose of the report was to determine the circumstances of the firefighters' death. It would seem that an important aspect of determining those circumstances is whether the two firefighters were able to make a judgement on their personal safety. The impairment of these individuals is critical to determine this criteria.
fire
They weren't impaired. They were screwed. It happens.
Don't let the facts get in the way...
I don't know if you heard this or not, but the autopsy reports say otherwise. Those autopsy reports were mentioned in a few newspapers, I'm sure you can find them by using google. Here's a summary:
Two firefighters died. One had cocaine in his system. The other had so much alcohol is his blood that legally he shouldn't have been able to drive a car, let alone fight a fire. The level of alcohol in his system was three times the legal limit.
I don't know what you consider impaired, but so say they weren't or to not even consider the possibility that this impacted their judgment is pretty disingenuous.
Tai Po
OK, for what it's worth: The BOI report is factually accurate. It is comprehensive and complete. The coroner's report hasn't been officially released, all that's out there are xerox copies and innuendo, unless there's something more.
Warren, according to the press had 'trace' amounts of coke in his system. The implication is that he wasn't impaired. Paul was trapped in the kitchen. According to the press, he was two seven.
I was shocked (no, really) and profoundly saddened to read this in the paper. It tars all of us with a wide brush. It is my personal and amateur opinion that it would have played out the same if I was in there. Should the issue be addressed? Yes. Has it been? Yes. A lot of guys have been put in on charges over the years. Just research the Globe's own articles. Is Adrian Walker on the level? He's an asshat that has been sniping at us for years. He probably started drooling when he heard the autopsy rumors.
The many questions the report didn't answer...
Let's get this straight. You as a firefighter feel that it doesn't matter that your co-workers are drunk and take cocaine because if they die, they are going to die from something else anyway, right?
Why not at least try to answer the hard questions (which was the purpose of the report anyway)?
For instance, how did these veteren firefighter find themselves in a situation not being able to exit a dangerous situation? Aren't firefighters trained not to risk their lives for property?
Why did one of the firefighters leave critical tools behind?
How it is that a firefighter is legally drunk three times over and none of his co-workers noticed?
Is it just a coincidence that the two firefighters that died were both using drugs or alcohol either just prior to going on duty or while on duty?
Why not get a copy of the autopsy report before publishing a report?
Red Herring
It tars all of us with a wide brush.
Actually, nearly everyone I have heard from or spoken to about this news has said the same thing: those two firefighters and any others who act the same should be dealt with for the safety of themselves, their team, and the public. Nobody I have heard from or spoken to has said that this is indicative of the rest of the firefighters or a rampant issue among those who serve the public good. I don't see anyone swinging a wide brush, but I do see a call to finally applying a more strict drug/alcohol policy because of the potential ramifications. It is a red herring to claim that this is a judgment on those who serve, it's a valuable protection for everyone involved, which is literally everyone.
As you mention, a lot of guys keep getting put on charges and yet Cahill felt that he could get away with 0.27. Clearly the system is not working as it currently stands.
Does Adrian Walker add anything....
What does it matter that Peter Gelzinis had a column on the same subject? None. It's Walker's column.
Why it matters
Because it shows how completely unoriginal, uninspiring and uninformative Walker's column today is. There's nothing in it somebody who cares about the issue wouldn't already know (and somebody who doesn't care about the issue is unlikely to plow through it).
Excellent well-reasoned comments on this thread
Freddie, Karl and Kaz make a clear and compelling case that if the BOI report did not consider the blood-alcohol level of one of the firefighters killed, and traces of cocaine in the other firefighter who was killed, then the report is flawed at least by the reason that facts, relevent fact, were ignored.
I have been generally impressed with the comments of people who took the time to read the report and comment here.
I don't know if drinking contributed to the cause of death but I do know that the BOI report didn't bother to consider whether it was a factor and that decision is antithetical to the purpose of the BOI. Furthermore, it is unethical, dishonest and could lead to another death if the report would otherwise have found that there were a problem that could be addressed to improve the safety of firefighters and those they protect.