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Logan LED Girl speaks
By adamg on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 7:50pm
BoingBoing interviews Star Simpson. Among other things, she explains why, unlike the Lite-Brite boys, she never addressed the media and what it was like to get arrested.
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Comments
MIT student's 15 minutes of fame
I find it hard to believe that this wasn't a staged incident to make a point about freedom of expression.
Luckily she wasn't shot by the state troopers while having her 15 minutes of fame.
uhg
please. if she was shot by the state troopers it shows what kind of police state we live in. that would be absolutely ridiculous. Even if she knew what she was doing, there was no reason to use deadly force. It's funny that the police are so concerned with protecting us from 'terrorists' but will never even bother helping you if you get mugged or robbed. The whole oversight and policy decisions are so screwed up. We're so concerned with stopping terrorists but aren't even concerned for our own fellow citizens who pay taxes and have every right to be safe in cases that aren't even terrorism related.
Well said, caravaggiste.
It's hypocrisy at its height, which 9/11 brought out.
It's funny that the police
Have you ever seen a police officer standing there watching a person get mugged and then proceed to do nothing about it? Maybe you have, and if you have then you shouldnt be complaining her you should be more vocal about it. If they had let her into the airport without arresting her and she was carrying a bomb people would be up in arms over how aweful it is that security didnt stop a woman who looked like she was carrying a bomb. I feel bad that she was arrested, but I think it has helped to get the word out, dont wear things that can look like bombs to the airport. She even says in the end that if she had looked at it from someone elses point of view it might not have made sense, maybe she just needs to do that next time. After watching the interview I am less hostile towards her as I now dont think she intentionally set people off, but I still dont blame security at the airport for trying to keep us all safe.
Star Simpson
I never cease to be amazed at the level of self-absorption by the petulant children who journey to Boston for an education. A disproportionate percentage of them stay after discovering that choices which would be controversial elsewhere (most of the USA) are just fine in MA. Fair enough. But trivializing the point of embarkation for the 9-11 mass murderers will get pushback, I promise you. If you want to be treated as an adult, accept some damn responsibility for your actions.
Huh?
You couldn't even be bothered to click the video and listen, could you?
I watched it...
Same opinion still. THe girl is an idiot and I have no sympathy. If you couldn't look in the mirror and see what others saw, then how the hell did you get into MIT? Do I think she was being malicious? Of course not. Do I have sympathy? Not one bit.
she couldn't maintain MIT -
she couldn't maintain MIT - she dropped out. It's one thing to get in, another to STAY in
I cant help but be
I cant help but be distracted by way they're both staring down at their laptops during the interview. So is she giving the interview from Logan, is that ironic?
The interview made more sympathetic to her on some levels. She's about as threatening as a lunch bag left on the train platform that has to be handled by the bomb squad because "somebody saw something and said something". On the other hand we all know that the airport is the one place where extreme overreaction is the norm, she never really speaks to that.
As a matter of fact, yes I
As a matter of fact, yes I have. I was and nothing was done about it during or after i filed a report. Not to get off topic, but why is it that police officers are taking OUR money and not doing a god damn thing. Especially the attitude problems and whining. They're in public service, they signed up for it, we're paying them, and they should be doing their job correctly. If they're not, they should be fired.
In response to everything else, the whole idea of 'terror protection' and the societal pressure involved is such complete BS. Here we have a propaganda machine of a white house making Americans scared shitless thinking that every small thing that is against the norm is a threat to our safety or a plot to kill us. The thing is, is they DID let her in the airport. She got through just fine, until she went to check on her friends flight. Did this woman actually think she would have waited to blow up the airport by coming up to her and asking her questions?! It's just absolutely insane. Maybe she should grow a spine. It's nice that she was 'worried' or welled up with fright, but for them to go on the offensive with a full scale assault team for one person who was obviously harmless, that's just ridiculous! We don't need any protection at this point. Our borders are so locked tight with every possible technological advance in weaponry that they're bound to blow us up before someone else does. The defense and terrorism spending in this country is absolutely INSANE. Defense spending is obviously needed and fine but not where it gets to the point where there is a national guard type unit in every airport with AK 47 guns and heavy artillery. We don't live in Russia. We're so obsessed with the idea of a terror threat that everything else gets side tracked and thrown off course. I'm sorry if this was completely out of sync, but the state of this country is absolutely astounding. Not since Hitlers empire has this intensity of propaganda been used. The threat is real ANYWHERE in the world, but chances are, it isn't going to happen.
Your telling me a police
Your telling me a police officer was present as you were getting mugged and he did nothing to help you?
he was being paid $90 to
he was being paid $90 to look at the construction hole, chat the workers, and surf the internet on his computer, and not a thing more
exactly...and I was with my
exactly...and I was with my boyfriend and when I went up to him to explain the situation he said sorry, I'm busy - while looking at a construction hole - and said to go to the DTX PD. I believe we need a complete overhaul of the force and to do away with this BS traffic cop crap. It has happened to two of my friends as well. The BPD is oppressive in some senses and absolutely careless in others....two extremes are not good.
by the way, they don't make $90/hr
Boston PD makes $36/hr on detail, not $90.
they get double time on sunday
and holidays.
if it's a project for a private company ie: building new parking or new driveways that cross public streets then they're paid by the company doing the work AND by the police.
I call BS on you.
You say you were robbed and a cop stood by and did nothing....that is complete BS! I notice you get off the subject real quick above. That's because it didn't happen and you are probably just a cop hater. Please don't come on here and lie. Stick to the subject.
The cops at the airport had to investigate this and treat it like it was the real thing. Don't you think terrorists test defense systems? Wake up.
x2
this guy is full of it.
Caravaggiste is definitely full of it.
No cop is just going to sit there (making $90 an hour too?? Yeah right) and watch someone get robbed. This guy has a problem with cops. Maybe he couldn't pass the test to become one and now he holds a grudge.
exactly...and I was with my
exactly...and I was with my boyfriend and when I went up to him to explain the situation he said sorry, I'm busy - while looking at a construction hole - and said to go to the DTX PD. I believe we need a complete overhaul of the force and to do away with this BS traffic cop crap. It has happened to two of my friends as well. The BPD is oppressive in some senses and absolutely careless in others....two extremes are not good.
I would never want to protect half of the blithering idiots in this country...I'd rather they get shot by the lethal force they so support.
what is the DTX PD?
Is this another lie? Why do you persist caravaggiste? Any cop who witnesses a robbery will do something about it. Please stop.
downtown crossing/government
downtown crossing/government center pd...im glad you're so patriotic patriots1.
no such thing as DTX police
Maybe your thinking of the MBTA Police (who are now the Transit Police). They are responsible for anything transit related (like DTC and Gov Center). Get your info correct and stop attacking cops, they are out there risking their lives for society. When you hear gunfire, you run away, they run towards it. What are you doing for society? Think about it for a while before you reply. And try not to make stuff up when you do.
I was speaking of only the
I was speaking of only the Government Center police office on New Sudbury St which is generally close to DTX which is why it is called the Downtown / DTX / Gvnt. Center headquarters when people call in. I'll attack whoever I wish. It's a free country, full of people who are too blind to see what is going on. Instead they just shrug it off and say "oh, whatever, it's not a big deal. Things will get better soon" They've gotten exponentially worse because of that mentality.
oh, and what are you going
oh, and what are you going to do if I don't? Call the police and tell them i'm a dissenter? I'm sure they would use deadly force on me too.
at least I'd know what department to call
Too bad you don't see the police for what they are, people out there trying to make society safer.
Thankfully because she
Thankfully because she followed instructions as required, she ended up in our cell as opposed to the morgue
The police are not allowed to shoot you dead for not following instructions. You must present as a lethal threat for them to use lethal force.
They thought she was armed
They thought she was armed with a bomb... A bomb is lethal force. I guess you can argue about how obvious or not it was but it was a circuit board with wires on it and to them it was a bomb. She could have had a fake gun and it would have been the same thing, if a cop shoots someone pointing a fake gun in a subway station I wouldnt blame them either.
“Thankfully because she
I find this policeman's statement inflammatory and of grave concern because of the threat posed by our own state police. Major Scott's statements leads to a few questions.
1. What is state police procedure for using deadly force... what are the conditions in which the use of deadly force is justified?
2. Why would the Major use the phrase "she ended up in our cell as opposed to the morgue" referring to Star Simpson when the girl, as acknowledged by the prosecutor, had no intent to strike fear with her wired sweatshirt or hard baked play doe flower. No intent.
3. Is the Major stating that an uncooperative Star Simpson, without intent to wear a sweatshirt as a hoax device, would have been shot dead if she did not follow instructions? (The answer is yes. Is that proper police procedure?)
4. Is this standard - cooperation versus lack of cooperation - a sufficiently hire bar for the police to gun you down or do they have an obligation to assess at least a reasonable suspicion (of having a bomb) if not probably cause and an understanding that killing you removes the threat or ignites it? (You've heard of a dead man's switch?)
5. When I grew up police used deadly force only when the suspect brandished a firearm or threatedned to use deadly force. The line was clear. How did it get so f*ckedup that cops can shoot you with deadly force in a crowded aiport if you don't cooperate?
6. What can we do about it?
7. What "responsibility" should Star take for her actions that she has not taken already?
Seriously?
The police are 100% justified here. They had no way to tell wtf the thing on her shirt was. Do they need bullet-proof evidence before they can decide she may be a threat? WHy can't we put the safety of the general public above the rights to wear something that looks like a bomb? To any idiot, the thing on her shirt would look suspicious. She even admittedly said that if she had seen it through the eyes of others she wouldn't have worn it. That is a sign of her own ignorance. For all the police know, it WAS a bomb. If she didn't cooperate, they would have been justified in taking her out. She was lucky as far as I'm concerned.
I was brought up to listen and respect the police. What is so wrong with doing that, even if you know they are in the wrong? What would have happened if Kaz rode his scooter into Logan wearing this sweatshirt? He would have been taken out as he was trying to recite the obscure section of the MGL that states he is allowed to wear said device.
100% Justified? No.
They sell these goddamn wired shirts inside security AT OTHER AIRPORTS.
You need to get out more.
Oh, and what, exactly, does a bomb look like? I would hope that the people tasked with keeping us safe from them would have far better than this "But I Watched McGuyver" understanding of what that means. Apparently neither you, nor the cops at the airport, do. You can be forgiven for that. The state police should know, and they seem to be covering up for a lack of training and discretion, bolstered by a desire for an excuse for a show of force. HUT HUT HUT HUT HUT!
Meanwhile, any REAL terrorist - or any real raving nutjob, for that matter - would have hit the switch before they got there, or as they arrived. If they would even know a real terrorist if they saw one - brown and "arab looking", never a good criteria, is now completely bogus because the real terrorist organizations are shifting their people around to defeat profiling. If anything, somebody casing the airport for a real attack could sacrifice a low-level operative with something stupid like this that "looks like a Hollywood bomb" and then know exactly what the stock response would be. This trick could also be used as a diversion - successful diversion, given what happened.
Past stupidity (everybody knowing about the ridiculously lax and disorganized security at Logan)is no excuse for compounding that lack of organizational training in the present. If shows of force are their best response, they have a lot of studying and training to do if they really want to prevent future attacks. If they just want to run around and yell and point their weapons and go hut hut hut and even "escape is futile" while they are at it, then they are well on their way to that goal.
Umm, No.
They dont sell these at airports:
nice try at justification. To someone who has not taken an electrical engineering class (read: most people) that looks suspicious. Why, oh why are we so quick to defend people for their stupidity and come down hard on those ecil police that are their for our protection?
The police did not have the opportunity to scrutinize the device, they had to take action immediately upon notification of the situation and thats what they did. Were they supposed to walk up to her nicely and say "Excues me miss, can we closely examine the device zip-tied to your shirt?"
Really, the fight on terrorism is always going to be a losing battle because they are always changing tactics and all, but that doesn't mean we should abandon actions like this. In case you didnt notice there hasn't been a terrorist attack on US soil in 7 years. Maybe there hasn't been an attempt, maybe there has. All I know is I'm ok with giving up personal freedoms such as wearing a goddamn science experiment on my sweatshirt. And I hear so many folks who pick on what we are doing with no real knowledge of anything we are doing to fight terrorism and they have no real ideas as to how to improvement. Simply saying "More and better training" is silly. You really think the police aren't trained? You think they are just sticking any old idiot out there?
lousy hack
You know BoingBoing is giving this girl way too much credit as being part of the hack/maker movement. That is one crappy looking project, totally lacking in effort or polish. No self respecting craftsman would leave the breadboard and battery exposed like that. Lame, lame.
funny
I know nothing about that stuff and thats what I was thinking. It almost looks like she was trying to make it look suspicious. I figured she would have mounted everything behind the shirt and had the LEDs stick through. She specifically made the thing to greet someone at the airport. At no point the thought crossed her mind that it might be a bad idea to wear that in the airport?
FYI, MA State Police Professional Training 2008
MA State Police Professional Training 2008
Training for State Police on WMD threat 2/12/08
How many State Cops attended the training the one time it was taught last year and does the training encourage State Police to use lethal force if the "suspect" wearing a wired sweatshirt doesn't cooperate?
reducing crime through investigations
When they investigated this "crime" they decided the "perp" had no intent to conduct a hoax, no intent but they charged her anyway. What does that say about their record of "reducing crime through investigations"?
Mail me a postcard
What is so wrong with doing that, even if you know they are in the wrong?
When the cops come and take you away to Gitmo because they thought you were involved in some scheme and ignored habeus corpus because you're treated as a "military combatant"...when you just disappear in the middle of the night and there's no trace of where you went...when you trust and respect the police and the result is that you no longer have your civil rights when they're wrong for any reason...
Mail me a postcard from Cuba, please. I'm not sure if I'll ever be allowed to go there in my lifetime and I hear it's pretty.
The problem is that as we freak out over the access that our freedom gives to terrorists, we restrict our own freedom. We enable the police to draw tighter restrictions and enjoin them with greater power over our freedoms. Your "respect them no matter what" attitude fails when the misuse of their powers occur after we've entrusted so much more power to them. What happened at the airport is a perfect example of ignorance, the mandate to prevent terrorism, and increased police power all coming together at once.
I'm not even talking about the arrest. The press briefing, the subsequent charges, the total lack of reality in describing what she was actually in possession of afterwards: these were all points where the situation could have been brought to the understanding of the reality of the situation. Instead, they were used as examples of how the system could vilify an innocent, if naive, co-ed.
The same goes for my incident that you brought up albeit on a much smaller scale. The officer ignored his training because he didn't like being wrong or being told he could err. He began to lie about the situation in order to help justify his heightened response to the situation with a ticket rather than the warning he intended originally when I would not gladly accept his error.
At what point of overreaction do you finally say they have gone too far? Or do you believe anything they do is justified...until it happens to you?
Coming Soon: Blackwater Mortgage Services
The "bailout" has a nice little clause in it about "private security firms managing property" for failed banks.
We should know by now what that means - more Blackwater and Halliburton porkbarreling, and private "security" force thugs removing inconvenient tenants of property at gunpoint, and ignoring state laws about leases, rights, etc.
Oh, but its an EMERGENCY! We HAVE to do it!
Right.
So anon-o-mouse, got your vaseline ready for when they declare you or your landlord in default and decide to foreclose? I'm sure you'll find it to be an excitingly erotic exercise in blind, unquestioning submission to illicitly raw naked power of the state ... er ... corporate world.
House of Sand and Fog had nothing on this thriller!
no vaseline necessary
I am up to date on my fixed rate mortgage, thank you.
an epic fail
Anon-a-mouse,
Fixed rate mortgage, indeed.
You and every American man, women and child just bought $2,300 worth of the big shitpile, the crappy debt issued by wall street and unscrupulous mortgage brokers swimming in commisions and fat bonuses while free market reformers like John McCain repealed regulation after regulation and put our economy of the edge of an epic fail. An epic fail.
I bet you never saw this coming under the right wing free market reformers, eh?
Where did all that money go and why are you and I picking up the tab?
I would be ok with letting them fail
I don't agree with the bailout. Bad precedent.
Don't forget, Barney Frank, Chair of the House Financial Services Committee did pressure the the Federal Home Loan Banks a couple of years ago to purchase Alt-A and sub-prime based MBS in order to encourage lenders to make loans to people who didn't have good credit scores. He also rejected Bush administration and Congressional Republican efforts to overhaul the housing finance industry. Under their plan a new agency would have been created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. "These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis," Frank said. He added, "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.
A little history for you:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0...
There were failures on all parts of the government, not just the republicans.
And stop this "epic fail" stuff. How old are you 16?
700 billion is not an epic fail?
You really want to tell me how to talk? Who voted you the language police and what's wrong with the expression epic fail?
You don't consider raising the national debt $700,000,000,000 to buyout all the mortgages in the US an epic fail? What would you call it?
You sound like Grampa Simpson: Hey kids get off my lawn. If you want to talk age, you go first.
US taxpayers bought 80% of Fannie May and Freddie mac last week. This week we create another $700 billion in national debt and buy all the shitpile mortgages.
Try to keep up old man.
funny
I'm 28, I just don't feel the need to communicate like I am playing World of Warcraft or whatever. "Fail" is not a noun, is it so hard to typ "-ure" and use the correct word?
I do consider the bailout a failure. We will never learn from our mistakes if there are no reprecussions for our mistakes. And jailing these CEOs wouldn't make me sad either.
McCain chief of
McCain chief of staff/lobbyist was paid $2m by Fannie and Freddie for access to McCain and to stop regulation of banking industry:
Congrats
You can repost stories from liberal blogs. McCain is not my man buddy, I know he is a crook. I was only trying to let you know the responsibility of this does not lie solely on one person and the denmocrats are no innocent here. Just because I can pick on a democrat doesn't make me a McCain supporter you know.
liberal blog?
You're funny. Sorry I didn't provide the link. It's the New York Times.
And ...
say there is an inadvertant ... or financially convenient ... error on your account.
Do you expect that anybody will care to hear your side of the case before you are booted out?
These errors do happen - I was more than paid up on my fixed rate student loans, too. I had to haul out cancelled checks to show that I had paid additional money beyond the minimum payment for several years when my student loans were sold to another lender. That new lender "recalculated" my loan balance based on the minimum payments, and denied that I had paid more into them than the minimum because "that's what our computer said".
I had recourse: a complaint process, a place to submit copies of my records, a system with checks and balances ... I got it straightened out within about six weeks.
With this "new" legislation, would you be able to rectify such an error? Would you even argue with power because you were taught not to question?
U.S. House of Sand and Fog, at your service.
Automatic payment
My mortgage is with a local bank and it will not be resold. I'm not worried.
I think your confusing
I think your confusing rational thought with being a spineless sheep that follows the govt no matter what it does. Of course there should be records, and you should use your personal records to protect yourself in the event of a problem. That doesnt mean we should question and hamstring the government at every level at every turn for every percieved slight.
All I know is
I have had plenty of situations like yours. I have found that if you just gop along with what the cops say, things generally turn out the best. I hae also learned that even though someting you are doing may not technically be illegal, if it defies common sense, you probably shouldnt do it. You and many other folks apparently are so paranoid that you can't see what is really happening in this world. The world is not coming to an end, we don't live in a police state. Please.
i never said the world was
i never said the world was coming to an end, i simply said we do live in a police state where our rights are being stripped away and we have prospective presidential candidates that will continue to conspire against us. I'm not paranoid. I'm facing facts. I'm not happy with the state of this country or society as a whole and if you don't see the stupidity every day on the street then you're insane. I'm going to continue going to school, going out, going to work; but will never be happy with how clone-ish people are.
Well thats your right to see the world that way
I disagree and am pleased with the life I live. I don't see all this opression you speak of on the streets. I see a lively city with a whole lot of good going on. Must be a miserable life you live. Sorry to hear that. I wish you well and hope someday you overcome your negative outlook.
Enforcement response is no longer clear
In the old days things were much more clear...a weapon was drawn and the cops would respond with their weapon. But now, the cops don't know who has a weapon. I'm not saying the cops were right or wrong here. I just want some intelligent feedback on how people want cops to respond to this sort of thing that happened at Logan.
Training might help
How well are the police stationed at the airport trained? Do they get any specific training? How often is it updated?
In other words, what is to keep a real terrorist operation from using this to create a diversion and draw security away from an area they plan to damage? If these cops are just pulled off the street and into the airport, and this is their only response, I'm sure there are people out there who would use that and get their real work done while every other cop in the place is tied up with a circuit board shirt or jewelry purchased in an airport in California.
Yep, the world is much more complex - it requires more complex reactions from security than this.
Cops pulled off the street?
You make it sound like our state police are freakin mall cops. Sad, really sad. What knowledge do you have of law enforcement do you have other than sitting on the online sidelines second guessing everything?
Lemme guess, you're a native!
And like most people who grew up around here, and too many cops, you forget who the police are working for and who they must ultimately answer to.
Us.
Every citizen has a right to be skeptical and critical of the way these guys and how any and ALL public officials perform. You and shady both fail to understand that their job exists because we all pay their salaries, and our elected officials set the terms of their employment and the limits of their authority. We all have a DUTY AS CITIZENS to question stuff like this. I'd ask why that is so hard for you to grasp ... but such is the legacy of over a century of organized crime infection in the body politic.
You'd have made a nice Tory, anon-a-mouse. Truly.
Its my duty
To questin why we defend idiots like this woman. Seriously. For a smart person, she is pretty stupid.
Swirly sometimes I wonder
Swirly sometimes I wonder why you even live in such an aweful place, you always seem to have such a disregard for the local population. Your more then welcome to go live in your wonderful west coast paradise you keep on bringing up, or maybe in the fields of Idaho. I do have a feeling your best fit would be Rural Georgia, I heard that they are real receptive to your brand of in your face annoying liberalism.
The police are hired to protect and serve, that is their main job. It is not to make hippies and vegitarians happy, and its not to pacify liberal moms on bikes. They do not work directly for you, nor do they work directly for the elected officials who represent you. I know its crazzzzzzyyyyyy but we have a system in place in most areas so a cop cant be fired for arresting the "wrong person." Ya know that is in place to halt coruption, something I figured you would know seeing as you seem to think the whole state has been run by a catholic tory mob for the past 200 years.
Do you want to know the main reason why "natives" tend to be a little more conservative on these issues? Its because they are too busy working to care why a girl who made a huge mistake in attire was arrested. Too many times people with too much time on their hands do crazy things to show their "personality", and were expected not to say anything because oh well we dont want to be seen as being no fun now do we. Natives also tend to know more police officers, and understand how much work they do, and have seen them injured and hurt, and even killed so when were all of a sudden told that they are corrupt/lazy/imcompetent/out to get us some of us get offended! Some natives have a deep connection to their communities and have put years if not generations into making those communities, only to be told by some person strolling by who doesnt have a real connection anywhere that "oh my god you people do things funny, like maybe you should do things like those people over there because ya I spent 5 minutes living in Phoenix and their (fill in the blank) totally rocks more then yours does. Ya'll need to cut crime, decrease taxes, increase the police force, decrease arrests, fire all those elected officials and turn 93 into a massive bike lane!"
So who was protected here?
So who was protected here? Who was served by this? Oh, rear ends have been protected, and a smug sense of "but this is Boston" has been served, maybe.
Moreover, where is the learning and accountability? I don't see any attempt to even admit that there needs to be learning here, hence, there is no accountability. Viable organizations need to be able to acknowledge mistakes (not happening), learn from them (not happening), and be accountable for their processes (not happening).
I'm sure that somebody noticed that an LED sweatshirt can cause a diversion in an airport that is famous for ignoring the "international" part of it's name. I feel safer already.
There is a term called "Best Practices". It isn't "oh, I spent 5 minutes in Phoenix" (Phoenix could really benefit from it, actually - been there? Major sprawlhole!), it means looking to other places and also within for what works best based on data gathering and tracking of interventions. Whatever happened to Yankee Thrift? That's a vernacular and local expression of Best Practices right there.
Insularity and isolation may have worked quite well when most places were local in economy and scale. The economy and the problems are bigger than that now, and the solutions to most bigger-than-local problems won't work if they remain at an entirely local level - or even the state level in this case.
well said.
"Viable organizations need to be able to acknowledge mistakes (not happening), learn from them (not happening), and be accountable for their processes (not happening)."
Instead, it's "if she had not cooperated she would have ended up in the morgue," as an OFFICIAL statement.
I'm really surprised at the attitudes of some of the comments on this blog... that they think this threat is ok because the police made the threat.
I appreciate the threat
Clearly we live in a world of idiots who think it is ok to wear batteries and circuit boards on their shirts into airports. That was not the mistake of the police. If they do not make a point of how dangerous such an activity is, how else to we get through to such idiots? Really, she is lucky she didn't end up shot. You have to wonder if such a bright girl was "testing the waters" a bit by wearig that thing. No logical human would not notice how suspect it looks.
I see no need for th police to acknowledge a mistake, they didn't make one, she did. There is no mistake to learn from, in fact I applaud them for taking the situation seriously. There is nothing to be accountable except for her making a dumb decision. She is by doing her time. Thats how I see it. Would you have even thought of wearing that into an airport? You mean to tell me nothing inside you would question wether or not that is a good idea?
ok to wear batteries and circuit boards on their shirts
Clearly we live in a world of idiots.
I agree but not for the same reason... for the fact you think it would be ok if she were shot dead for doing it.
Let's agree to disagree.
nice misinterpretetion and subtle insult
I don't think it would be ok to be shot dead for such an offense, but I believe she was lucky she wasn't.
I think we have exhausted this discussion.
Really? For the whole situation?
You say that the police didn't make any mistakes here, but you only really speak to the initial arrest/takedown.
You think the statement about putting her in the morgue wasn't a mistake? You think that naming the hardened flower in the press as "five to six ounces of Play-Doh in her hands" wasn't a mistake? You think that charging her with "possession of a hoax device" (a crime that indicates intent to terrorize) wasn't a mistake?
All of those actions were taken by police in response to this situation and I agree that if there was concern about her "art" that police acted at the time as they should have in detaining her and assessing the situation. However, once it was easily established that she posed no threat at all, the police felt the need to justify their actions further by making biased comments about her items and their leverage of power in these situations. They justified their arrest with charges that require intent to scare and do harm that they were completely aware did not exist. They mischaracterized her possessions as "C4-like" to further justify those crimes when they knew it had nothing to do with reality.
Remembering back to how information on the incident was announced that day, I wonder if you would even feel the same way that you do about her competence and frame of mind if the press briefing and subsequent coverage had gone differently. If the police had come to the mic and said the following I believe most people wouldn't be as adamant in her wrong-doing:
"Upon receiving word from a Logan employee that they had witnessed a person walking with what appeared to them to be a bomb in the outer terminal, the alerted trooper and anti-terrorism units converged on the suspect. She was taken into custody without incident wearing an electrical apparatus on her shirt and holding dried modeling clay first identified by witnesses as a potential explosive. It was established upon questioning that she intended and posed no threat to anyone and has been released. The incident this morning proceeded according to all established measures and I am proud of how well our department handled the situation when dealing with an unknown potential threat to public safety.
We remind the public that under current security measures at the airport, all reported concerns will be investigated with the public's safety in mind. Officers are trained to respond with deadly force when to their best knowledge no other alternative is left and the possibility for catastrophe exists. If your actions cause us to respond to you, please follow all instructions and any misunderstandings will be handled after the scene is under control."
That would have given the public confidence in the police response to a initially undefined potential threat at the airport and yet explained how she ultimately proved to be no threat to security and didn't vilify her actions outside of her, by all accounts including her own, thoughtless choice in clothing. Hell, you could change the part about being released to being slapped with disorderly conduct for the whole stupid clothing thing and it would still be a damn far sight better than talking like they had an itchy trigger finger to want to send her to the morgue if she goofed up and then slapping the hoax device charge on her and characterizing her possessions as "explosive-like" even long long long after the fact.
If she used her damn head
None of this would have happened. I don't blame the police. In fact, I will always believe that she was testing the waters and found out the hard way that was not such a good idea.
measured and reasoned
Kaz, do you have training in this area because you speak in a measured and reasoned manner that I wish our State Police could display.
Instead, they announced to the public that this suspect would have ended up in the morgue had she not cooperated, which is an inflammatory threat and unarguably a violation of her civil rights, and by implication, ours.
Thats it
Get the ACLU on the phone. Time to cripple the abilities of our State Police. Where's the outrage people? Don't you know we are opressed? The state police are our enemies! Stand up and revolt!
The statement is neither inflammatory, nor a civil liberties violation. Its a statement of fact. She is lucky she didn't end up in the morgue.
agreed to disagree
I agreed to disagree which meant I was done arguing with you. I replied to Kaz, not you. Why do you want to keep it going?
He might keep it going
He might keep it going because you come back, say something, then say "oh its over." If you really want to end the discussion stop responding.
Thanks. I replied to Kaz
Thanks. I replied to Kaz but your point is well taken.
I think they were a little
I think they were a little over the top in the press conference but what he said was fundamentally right. If she had not cooperated she would have been shot. You can clean it up all you want, but thats what he would have said if he used your words or his own.
I'll tell you what though, nobody is going to walk into Logan airport with wires and leds hanging from their body in a hapharzard way anytime soon... I think it also says to people who may be sneakier about their methods that Logan security means business and WILL react if a threat is percieved.
I do love how media friendly everybody is these days. She picked a cute outfit, and her hair was done up in a very non crazy way for her interview. A very far shot from what we saw of her last year in the mug shots with the crazy hair and outfit (I dont hold her face against her, I think I would look pissed off too if I were just arrested for any reason.)
International Airport
Logan has the word "international" in it's name. One would hope that means that people from all over the world wander around there. It is a good bet that most of them don't follow or care about style and appearance trends in Boston. "Just know better" or "common sense" or even "bizarre hair and clothing" in Boston isn't the same everywhere. So she looked weird in Boston - so what? Ever watch a flight from Amsterdam empty out?
I think you missed my point
I think you missed my point about how she was playing the media, in how everyone is so media savy these days. I wasnt suggesting that her hair got her in trouble, I was suggesting it was interesting that she ditched the punk look for her interview with BoingBoing, which caters to a crowd, if its host is any indication, that wouldnt have minded a little crazy hair and led sweatshirts. She was obviously trying to soften up her image a bit, and laughing at all the right times. I also wouldnt be suprised if she rehearsed that smile multiple times as well.
If any of those tulip lovers come to Logan with a series of wires and LEDs hanging off of them I would expect they be knocked to the ground and arrested as well. You are right though, different places are quite different, for instance if she was at an airport in Israel with those circuit boards she would have been leveled pretty quickly.
First off maybe California
First off maybe California shouldnt be selling wired shirts, but thats not my problem until they get here. Just because California does something stupid doesnt mean we should follow suit, maybe they are wrong.
Second I think its kind of funny that you dont think that our police are trained enough. There is constant training for all sorts of scenarios. In Cambridge they even have a giant mock terrorist attack inside the Galleria mall at least once a year to train responders and police from all over. There are special incentives for police to get additional training as well. The thing is they cant be trained for everything all the time so they are allowed to use their judgement at times, and sometimes that leads to some ignorant girl being pushed to the ground, too bad. She was wearing something that an average person could easily mistake for a bomb in an airport setting and the police responded in kind. What sort of "training" would have prevented that from happening? Please dont say sensitivity training...
Some people in this wonderland (even post 9-11) where everything is sunshine and flowers and everyone is good, and people should be able to do whatever they want even if it costs the rest of us lots of money and they should never be questioned. Im not one who thinks 9-11 changed everything but I think its a wake up call, the world can be a dangerous place and I think it will only get more dangerous as time goes on from here. All the factors for a more dangerous world are lining up and I for one want our police/security/military forces to be able to respond to percieved threats and be able to adapt without people crying over some girls civil liberties being temporarily suspended because she looked like a bomb.
Wired shirts
Shady, I seem to recall someone having said the LED shirts are being sold inside security, which would indicate that if a guard noticed them, they could rest assured that they are not bombs-in-waiting. And if they're the same type of shirts I'm thinking of, they usually spell something out, or make a picture, and don't usually have wires sticking out and a visible battery dangling from them.
Also, re: Galleria training, let me know when it is! I'd love to play the part of screaming hostage number 3.
Operation Poseidon
I was a mock bomb victim a couple years ago at the annual Galleria bombing. It was a pain in the ass and totally not realistic, because they made us all stay put even if we had very minor injuries. So those of us who had cuts and bruises had to get lined up by severity and stand outside in the cold for hours while we waited for our particular bus to take us to a hospital. If the mall had really been bombed, we'd of course have just left and taken the bus to the hospital ourselves. (This was a minor bombing that injured just the people in the food court -- not a major infrastructure-halting event). So, yeah, they were training on what to do in a situation that would totally never happen -- hundreds of people with minor scrapes being held and triaged at the mall.
http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
adjust the facts, and re-evaluate the policy
Cars are used as bomb delivery devices in Northern Spain, Bagdhad, Pakistan, Yemen, etc etc.
Should the Mass. State Police have the right to shoot a driver, with lethal force, because the driver is wearing a wired shirt and they think it's possible (because of the shirt) that there is a bomb?
What if it's your friend driving?
What if it's your friend driving and you are in the passenger seat not wearing a wired shirt?
How likely is the shooting on I495 versus at the airport? What is it that makes the police think its more justifiable at the airport than at I495?
I dont keep up with every
I dont keep up with every scenario that they do but in the past they have had seriously "wounded" people, "dead" people, and second bombs go off at the train station. They have also done dirty bombs and multiple small explosions in several areas. In 2006 the drill started off on an LNG tanker in Everett, and I believe in 2005 F-16's were involved. I think it all depends on budgets some years include planes, trucks, ships, fake bio weapons and the such costing almost a million dollars and other years they scale it back quite a bit.
Im not sure how they get all the volunteers I know the group I work for works with different levels of government on issues so they always keep us in the loop and "offer" to let some of us "play" I always pass lol, a little too early on a saturday for me to be splashed with fake blood and "decontaminated". Maybe Eeka can fill you in on the hows of getting in more then I can.
Galleria Training
That was kind of my point; I suppose it came across rather sarcastically when I said I wanted to play a role in a mock terrorist situation.
Ideally, the function of a mock run should be to create as realistic a situation as possible, to assure that officials can properly handle an actual terrorist threat/attack. That, of course, would create real panic, could potentially be dangerous, and would certainly piss off a lot of people, but would offer a better indication of our preparedness. But by giving people roles, and instructions on how to play them out simply creates a staged play that falsely reassures us.
It reminds me of CPR training I've taken throughout the years. Back in '92, there was a full-scale human model from the torso up, and you head to locate the right place to put your hands, the chest would depress realistically, and you had to properly tilt the head and seal your mouth t to the dummy, and blow in; you could feel the resistance as if you were blowing into someone's lungs.
Then, when I recertified, they had drawn outlines of where the hands should go (because we all know that humans have hand outlines naturally drawn on their chests), and we weren't allowed to put our mouths onto the dummies' mouths, for fear of spreading germs (either that or some perv had discovered an alternative use for the gaping mouth earlier that day). So both of these changes lessened the efficacy of learning the process.
The third time, they had given up on the here's-where-you-put-your-hands-on-me-and-keep-your-sloppy-lips-off-mine dummies completely, and the apparatus was simply a white disc that was attached. It did compress, but not accurately.
I don't know where I'm going with this...I guess it can be tougher/scarier but more effective to do something like this realistically, but easier/stupider to act everything out so obviously.
I'm not at all trying to
I'm not at all trying to sound like a cop basher. Just to set that straight. Just from what I have seen, experienced, read, and heard from people I know there needs to be more oversight, policy, etc to better handle situations instead of going ALL OUT with heavy weaponry in a public domain where there are a ton of people. There are plenty of good police men and women that do their duty and protect us - there is no question with that. There are however, just as many not, complaining, etc. that shouldn't be in the positions they are in if they are there to protect us or follow through with complaints, reports, etc. I understand that in a city, the complaint and report volume must be erroneous so there is obviously going to be some error. I'm not irrational in saying anything because things have clearly changed in security, enforcement, etc. that so many people don't understand because it was done behind our backs without proper publicity and education. There needs to be a clearer unity between enforcement, protection, and the national public for us to better understand why exactly they surrounded a 20 something with oodles of cops with machine guns and automatic rifles. This is only one example and it can be discussed on a much broader scale.
Our society should be trained!!!
The cops get enough training, it is us citizens who need to be trained. Doesn't this girl's ignorance show you that some people aren't aware of what is going on in our country? Yes, this is a free society and we want people to be able to do/wear/say what they want but at the same time people should be thinking about how they will be perceived under certain conditions. More public awareness is what is needed.
Unfortunately
Common sense is hard to train.
Agreed
There were a lot of police and officials that day who displayed no common sense after determining her to be of no threat.
no common sense
Even the prosecutor displayed no common sense by charging her after he admitted she had no intent to conduct a hoax.
So her crime and sentence is for showing 'no common sense'. Where is it exactly stated that the clothing you wear must pass Homeland Security's standards for being insufficiently mistakable for something as dangerous as a bomb?
OMG a 9-volt battery! Must be a
toybomb. Shoot her dead.The security you seek so vigorously is not delivered by policemen making threats about killing you if you don't cooperate.
I reiterate
If she couldn't see what she was doin was a bad idea, shes a moron. A little community service and bad press should work wonders.
you all have way too much
you all have way too much faith in this government and its following institutions. We live in a police state, simple and clear. Just wait and see what happens after the election doesn't turn out the way its supposed to. mass riots in every major city around the country...then the police and this stupid government will be running scared for all of their stupidity and 'pride' for the last eight years!
Electoral Results
And just how is the election supposed to turn out? For many people, simply in favor of who they want in the oval office. And if their candidate doesn't win, they'll cry foul.
But, since you have provided such a convincing argument that mass riots will erupt come early November, I'll be sure to stock up on some crowbars and acetylene torches. Yee-haw!
Obama/Biden The rnc is done
Obama/Biden
The rnc is done winning over the masses with their attacks and thwarting tactics.
In a Democracy the person
In a Democracy the person who wins takes office without violence and bloodshed. If you are advocating that their be riots and bloodshed because your (our) candidate doesnt win then there is something terribly wrong with you. Maybe I am just a sheep, baaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh, but I support the person who wins because those are the rules. There will not be mass riots in the street, there will just be you and a handfull of urban yokels who will be arrested for breaking into several storefronts and of course you will post a blog about how corrupt and aweful the police are for arresting you. People like you cost us too much money, your not worth it.
I'm not advocating anything.
I'm not advocating anything. I'm just saying that this country will go insane if we have another four years of 'the same.'
And besides....how are we as
And besides....how are we as citizens expected to be civil when the government has been anything but, to us?
If you lose an election you
If you lose an election you sit down and plan for the next one, those are the rules. We have rules books and we use them to make sure everyone plays fair. If you dont like the way things are make sure you get 50 percent plus one, k.
Well if the other guy gets
Well if the other guy gets 50 percent of the vote plus one (forgetting about electoral votes for a second) then the maximum number of people who can be upset are 50 percent of the vote minus one. The country will move on regardless of who wins, after all we survived Richard Nixon being elected during the hippie era, and he even invaded Laugh In.
lets just hope he wins by a
lets just hope he wins by a landslide and call it a day.
no thanks
I'll pass on the Obama socialism.
"obama socialism" is a crock of shite
no one has nationalized more US businesses than George Bush. Please, spare us with the "Obama socialism".
The Bush administration just bought two FORMERLY privately held companies, FannieMay and FreddieMac. That was last week.
Next week, the Bush administration is going to raise the national debt by $700,000,000,000 (that's billion) so that the US government (that's you and me) can buy all the bad mortgages in the USA. How can they tell which are bad and which are good? They can't.Why should I pay so the government buy your mortgage? My house is paid off. I own it outright.
"Obama socialism" Ha! You ought to read the newspaper.
Here's a graphic that show's the record of the last five presidents and the fiscal conservatism. GRAPHIC We haven't yet tallied Bush's legacy. It will be the worst spending record of all times.
Boston PD Area A-1
That is the name of what you call the "DTX PD." I've never heard anyone call it that. It seems you made it up....did you also make up your story of the "robbery?"
Stupid things to bring to airports - NYC edition
JetBlue reopens NY JFK terminal
NEW YORK—JetBlue has reopened its terminal at New York's Kennedy airport following a brief evacuation due to a suspicious package.
JetBlue spokeswoman Alison Eshelman says the package held replica WWII grenades that were used as paperweights. Scanners spotted them in a passenger's luggage, and the terminal was emptied around 7:50 a.m. Monday. It reopened at about 8:15 a.m.
guilty of possessing a hoax bomb device?
Someone should make sure she
Someone should make sure she doesnt wear the part of the power grid on her shirt on her return flight to the US.
Wear it in Israel?
I wonder what would have happened to this girl if she had worn this into an airport in Israel? (This ought to be interesting)