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Where will the Green Line finally end?

Inside Medford reports that officials will announce final station locations - including the end of the line - for the Green Line extension through Somerville and Medford at a meeting this afternoon, 4-6 p.m. at St. Clement's New Parish Hall, 579 Boston Ave., Medford.

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This looks shovel ready.

Why do Republicans hate public transportation and economic recovery?

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The Green Line extension is no where near shovel ready. Almost none of the engineering required for a project this size is done. I'll be surprised if this project is done by 2015 with the way things work around here.

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That might be true IF that engineering was needed for, say, complete and total right of way building, demolition and all of that.

This is pretty damn close to shovel ready - considering that their isn't much actual shovelling involved here - the right of way is there already, and has been for sixty years. It will need engineering work and planning, but bill is trying to play games by extreme exaggeration here. The actual construction will be more oriented to the stations than to the trackway - not the usual with these projects.

Unless maybe he's THAT bill who wants to put the whole thing through Tunnels under Tufts to join up at Davis Square (so it misses Medford, of course - can't have outsiders in a city surrounded by other cities). That would take a lot of engineering planning, but it's also been shot down as the garbage distraction that it is.

2015 is only six years away you know - before my kids leave high school (a good thing). Somerville will move seven hills to get this in place, too.

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They haven't even filed their draft environmental impact report, let alone finalized it. Last I heard they didn't have the all of the property lines surveyed. Also, there is still a good deal of engineering to be done on the construction of stations, supporting infrastructure and tracks (you know... important things for trains). So... again the Green Line extension to Medford is not shovel ready regardless of your pie-in-the-sky wishes.

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All of those "vastly horrible time consuming hurdles!!!!!!" that you have just noted have been accomplished for larger transit projects in other parts of the country in less than the stated time frame.

I suggest you look up what Portland Oregon has done with its transit building projects over the last five years to see how much can be accomplished in a short period - they believe in transparency, so there will be a lot to read about. Their more recent projects are also running six months ahead of schedule.

I-205 Light Rail Project timeline
Final design October 2005–December 2006

Federal funding approval May/June 2007

Light rail construction begins March 2007–October 2008
Systems installation November 2007–May 2009

Testing and training March–September 2009

Service begins September 2009

Note that this is a much longer corridor and many more stations than the green line extension project, yet it still lists only a 4 year time line (compared to a five year estimate for the green line). Current projections have service starting as early as this April - about 3.5 years from the start of the design phase. This is a good project to compare, as it is on an already established right of way (created when the freeway was built in the late 1970s).

You are taking a couple years worth of work and making it sound impossible because you either do not know what you are talking about or you want to scare people who don't know what they are hearing. If you break down the tasks such that they include every coffee and bathroom break for the work crews, then even a toolshed build really begins to sound impossible. If you look at what is possible, what you are laboriously laying out here is really not a lot of work and time.

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You are talking about construction time. I'm talking about planning for construction. Two completely different things with two completely different processes. You can't start construction without planning for it, right? I know you have all the answers but we have to live in a world where all your answers aren't necessarily the correct ones.

There are concrete benchmarks before any construction may begin and the Green Line Extension is near the beginning of those benchmarks. Just because the government is giving out money doesn't mean you can skip those required steps. Unless of course you're in favor of breaking environmental laws.

I suggest you take the time to research the project you reference (http://www.portlandmall.org/about/documents.htm). You might notice that even out in Portland they took several years to plan out their project before construction (gasp). The Green Line extension is probably currently in the same place as where this project was in November 2004.

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Design time is included in that time line.

Actual construction time is quite short, despite the large number of parking spaces specified at several of the stations and much more extensive station work - something the Green Line won't have.

My dad was a supervising engineer when this segment of I-205 was built, so I am well aware of how this project was designed and run.

Note again that you are trying to scare with useless additional information. You blithely link to the Portland Mall project, which is related to the southside rail (how the train gets into downtown) BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME PROJECT.

The downtown area work did take some years of design, as it involved not only the terminus of SEVERAL rail lines but the Bus Mall as well - that is equivalent to redesigning the entire Park Street and Downtown Crossing area with dedicated bus lanes running from the lenghth of Congress Street. The Green line and the Southside rail package are directly comparable, but you are acting like an extension of the green line MUST really include a massive overhaul of downtown and I'm just too stupid to see how long that is going to take!

Nice try at yet another disingenous scare tactic. I've grown up around construction and worked in construction health and safety as an adult so I'm not naive about the entire process - and I don't appreciate constant patronizing and misrepresentation as a replacement for actual factual argument.

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They're saying they might be ready to start construction in 2012?

That sounds like three years off from shovel-ready, no?

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How many times can someone be told the facts before they listen? Don't answer that SwirlyGrrl. I know you're one of those people who can never admit they are wrong.

The GLE is not ready for construction. They are not even close to construction. The GLE is just in the starting phases of actual design. They just decided where the last stop will be. It will take a least a couple more years for the engineering and design will be completed. Which is no different from your utopia of Portland, but you don't seem to have the ability to read the websites you quote.

Maybe you should get your poppa over here and whip the T, the state, and the federal government into shape. Who cares about minor things such as figuring out where the tracks will go within the corridor or where layover and power facilities will be. SwirlyGrrl says we must start now. Let's go!

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Is old Russian joke:

When construction finally started in 1891, a Western journalist asked the Director whether there were going to be two lines from Moscow to Vladivostok or just one.

"It depends..."

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I am in favor of breaking environmental laws. They have become the cudgel of NIMBY whiners.

As a logistical matter, they could start work on things like clearing the station locations tomorrow.

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Huh? Environmental laws (clean air) are the reason this project is moving forward at all.

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In recent times, plaintiffs have used these laws to stop any development they dont like. Here's a good example -- http://www.examiner.com/a-388483~Suit_puts_brakes_.... You shouldn't need two years of studies to show that more people riding bikes will be good for (or, at least, neutral to) the environment. Likewise, you'd think that this project -- which, as you point out, was the pro-environment settlement for the Big Dig -- could proceed on a more expedited basis.

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That article you point to mentions that the city didnt file for the project, or for an environmental review. I realize its bike lanes and overall it will be better but why should we take the bike coalitions word for it? If its a law its a law for everyone.

The same goes for the Big Dig and the mass transit options. Just because it was said there should be a subway line does not mean you can just drop one out of the sky tomorrow. Its got to follow the rules and laws everyone else lives by. Just because something is green and super cool enviro doesnt mean that it is exempt from harming the environment if done wrong.

"well hey that law was great when it benefited us, but now that we got what we wanted and are now in power how about we toss that law out?"

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Like, much of those the city itself owns?

In Medford, it's "Why do Townie DINO Politicians who can't imagine ever having to get a job outside the city borders hate public transportation".

Is it because it brings in all those dangerous, educated "outsiders" who were not born in the habitable 4 square miles of Medford Island who actually *gasp* work in other parts of the known world and acquire dangerous ideas about transparancy and citizen participation?

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Anyone want to bet that it's still going to be Lechmere for a really long time?

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It'll be Lechmere Across The Street.

*sigh*

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But didn't they just renovate Lechmere, or was I hearing things? And by "just," I mean within the past 5 years or so, ie. within the context of knowing full well that the station would likely be moved as part of the upcoming extension?

*sigh*...

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It looks pretty much the same as it did 20 years ago.

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My mistake. I could have sworn I had heard news of that, and it seemed, well, quite in line with MBTA behavior.

Sorry for speaking too soon!

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They've probably done some painting so it doesn't completely fall apart, and they replaced the (part-time) turnstiles by (full-time) Charlie gates. But that's about it.

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...when Lechmere was closed while the North Station part was being finalized. The only "upgrade" was removing benches along the northern wall in the busway and replacing them with ones with fewer seats.

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Sounds like classic MBTA thinking to me! Lets reduce the number of seats... Is it Park Street that has those little itty bitty weird granite seats that only school children or super skinny models can sit on?

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at the Red Line level, and those were installed as part of a 1980s art project.

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Although Park (green line level) does have pretty poor-planned seating; little wooden squares on the corners of the signs that ideally could probably comfortably sit two or three, but because of personal-space issues and people's belongings only realistically only sit one each.

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Stunned. Stunned and amazed that there isn't a BRING TEZ GREEN LINEZ rant here :)

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Ever since they ripped up the tracks along Heath Street, even.

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I was poking fun at Arborway's obsession, not saying that I think the green line should be brought in to JP.

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Cause the only discussion of the extension in this thread is right here. :)

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;)

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Full press release here.

“Extending the Green Line terminus to Mystic Valley Parkway [Route 16] will bring rapid transit service to East Cambridge, Somerville and Medford neighborhoods that have waited a long time for rail transit,” said [Transportation Secretary James] Aloisi.

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I think it makes perfect sense to have mass transit terminate at major roadways/highways where you can then build a large garage out of the way of major residential areas. Its an effective use of the current transportation infrastructure. I just hope they do a better job of traffic mitigation then they did at Alewife which is an absolute nightmare between 4:30 and 6pm (not to mention 7:45-8:30.) I have spent upwards to a half hour to get out of that stupid garage, and once it took me 45 minutes to get out of the garage and onto Rt 2/Rt 16. Every intersection, every light, every movement you make in that area is a disaster with cars blocking intersections, the impossible turns (because cars are always backed up so you cant get out of the garage without breaking the law, same goes for getting around the corners) and the several near misses with pedestrians on walkways that are impossible to see from behind an SUV until the person just pops out in from of you when traffic starts moving.

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There will be no garage.

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LAME, there are no garages on the green line on the north side of town and yet its the most direct line in the city. Any plan for suburban expansion should include garage/end terminal transfer options.

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The Green Line extension is designed to serve two densely populated cities with poor rapid transit connections to Boston. The residents of Medford would not be served at all by having a garage (and associated road augmentation) plopped in their neighborhood. The point is to get cars off the road not bring in more cars. And besides if there's money to build a garage/roads it would be better spent extending and improving rapid transit & commuter rail in other cites beyond Medford. That's kind of reason why I thought a transfer station from the Green Line to commuter rail at West Medford would make sense since commuters from north of Medford who wanted to go to Medford/Somerville/Cambridge could take advantage of the Green Line extension too.

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There are plenty of other areas just as dense with less transit options then Medford... They should find a way to expand it to a point where they can put a garage so those of us who live almost as close but are farther away from transit (and in denser neighberhoods) can still enjoy the benefits of a greenline expansion that will cost all of us millions of dollars.

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You know and I know that there isn't much money to build transit everywhere. If I ruled the world, all the current lines would be extended past 128 and I'd build a few new lines too and we wouldn't need any garages at all because everyone would be in walking distance of station. But in the real world it seems miraculous that even this small extension can be built. And the fact of the matter is that there isn't really much room for a garage or the traffic it would draw in this location (or anywhere along the Green Line extension for that matter).

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Then I say spend the money on an expansion of Big Blue into Lynn and Salem where they already have right of ways, and already actually have garages that are severely underutilized (with plenty of room for expansion) and multiple main roads nearby. You also would have the benefit of hooking in one of the biggest community colleges in the area (North Shore Community College) and the biggest public non university college in the state (Salem State College, even among the public universities its bigger then most of them too.) In addition you would be serving many more people within walking distance who currently have absolutly no options outside of the occasional shuttle boat and the expensive commuter rail system (buses arent all that great up those regions) and would have the added bonus of serving the majority of the upper North Shore as well without adding too much traffic as it would actually stop more traffic from coming down from that area (freeing up the Tobin bridge.)

Did I mention that the MBTA holds rights of ways in that area as well?

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Where exactly is the terminus going to be? It seems that if they're going to build the Green Line out that far, it makes sense to end the line with a transfer stop with the commuter rail at West Medford which is less than half-a-mile north of route 16.

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That would make sense, but I think the West Medford terminus was dropped due to its expense: crossing Route 16, crossing the Mystic River (requiring a new bridge), and probably taking back yards and houses beyond there because that part of the Lowell Line right-of-way isn't 4 tracks wide.

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Saskatoon.

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Now all the loonies in the Northwest Territories will be clamoring for another extension. :)

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I'm sure the Canadian Government will be having Nunuvut!

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How did I know you wouldn't pass up an opportunity like that, Swirly? :)

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