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Crowley: Asked Gates to come outside to protect himself
By adamg on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 11:54am
"I know what I did was right," he tells Dennis and Callahan this morning, in his most detailed comments on the case since the police report.
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Comments
Talking to Dennis and
Talking to Dennis and Callahan is the least effective way for someone to assure me he is not a racist.
raise your hand if you're tired of Gates and Crowley already
Seriously? Black, white, purple, and polkadot MEN get harassed by the cops all the time. Welcome, Mr. Gates, to the Human Condition of having to interact with Respect Mah Authoratay Cops.
Well, that's that then
After all, nothing says "I'm not a racist!" like going on the Dennis and Callahan show. Nope, no history of racism there, none whatsoever. Pure as the driven snow on that topic, they are.
Agreed - it's unfortunate,
because they were unable/unwilling to ask him the right questions.
I've read lots including the PD reports, heard the interview, and this is what at this point I think this about this whole stupid affair:
1. Gates completely freaked out on the sergeant from moment #1 that he got there
2. that Crowley should have done a better job of de-escalating from the start
3. that it's important that (if one believes this) the professor initially gave the cop only his Harvard ID, and not, as was initially reported, his Harvard ID AND his MA ID, because not proving his address immediately further escalated things
4. that Gates should have refrained from following him outside and stopped yelling at him
5. that once outside, Crowley should have continued walking away and not kept engaging the prof
6. that Crowley should, ultimately, NOT have arrested Gates for tumultuous behavior or whatever it's being called.
Totally unfortunate.
On the other hand
It seemed to me that the two meatheads repeatedly tried to bait him into saying something negative or racist, and he repeatedly refused to take that bait.
I think in a sense that this interview makes a better impression for Sgt. Crowley than an interview with someone more... neutral... would have. I would like to believe that a police officer is as cautious, controlled, and circumspect as Sgt. Crowley was in this interview.
I am unconvinced he acted this way in Prof. Gates house, though.
Two different stories
[I]t's important that (if one believes this) the professor initially gave the cop only his Harvard ID, and not, as was initially reported, his Harvard ID AND his MA ID, because not proving his address immediately further escalated things.
The officer's report says that Gates showed him a Harvard ID. I believe those are IDs that have a photo. Ware Street, where Gates lives, is immediately adjacent to the Harvard campus. (The report does not say that Gates did not show the officer a drivers license, or whether the officer asked for one.)
Gates' account says, "I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him."
Gates' account further explains that he posted his bail ($40) with the money he had in his wallet. If he had his wallet with him, that suggests to me that he also had his drivers license with him, and would have been able to show it.
Tiny violin time ...
Wasn't there some geek movie where one character was recruited to tell another when he was getting out of control?
I think Officer Crowley needs that kind of buddy. Either that, or he should read Holes instead of digging them.
Geesh, what was the older, much smaller, and somewhat mobility impaired professor going to do to a hulking cop - lecture him on the finer points of the slave labor inputs into the textile import economy in the antebellam South until he fell into a stupor? Whack him over the head with a fine specimen of slave art from the 18th century?
Swirrly
What don't you understand about worse case scenerios?
Im sure Officer Crowley (like most cops) has gone to about 1000 of these calls. Maybe only 5 out of those 1000 happened to be a situation where something didnt to be like it appeared?
-where there was someone else in the house when the resident didnt know it.
-or the person inside pretends to live there or has a right to be there.
-Or the person that is in the house was just arrested for beating up his wife and now had a restraining order to keep away from the house and wife
-Or where the resident is crazy and might take a knife from the kitchen and stab someone (a situation like this did happen in cambridge)
-Or where the resident was just evicted and broke back in to get his stuff
After all, someone did call and said that they saw 2 men breaking open a door, and in fact 2 men did break open a door. I always had a domestic situation in mind whenever I went to these calls. #1 rule about domestics is to get people out of the kitchen.
The initial part of this whole situation is not the problem. The problem I possibly see is the arrest for disorderly conduct, not the initial encounter between Gates and Crowley.
And I don't care how small you are, anyone can grab a knife and cut someone much larger, quicker and tougher than they are. That really shouldnt be an issue.
Well, we know he had one really good option
He could have left the house. My guess is that Gates knew full well that he had a right to order him to leave once he had established that this was not a break in.
One of the (many) stories on this incident has Gates attempting to contact the Cambridge Police while yelling at Crowley to leave his property. Why would he do that if he preferred a shotgun for removing unwanted and unlawful intruders?
Here's legal perspective on
Here's legal perspective on the Gates incident. Here are my thoughts, at least from a Maryland perspective:
Most if not all states make it a crime to engage in “disorderly conduct,” or, similarly, to fail to obey an order of a police officer reasonably meant to prevent a breach of the peace. Generally disorderly conduct means words or actions taken with the intent to disturb another, or incite or provoke another to violence.
Speaking one’s mind, even with the use of profanity or harsh words, is not sufficient to be criminal, as speech is protected by the first amendment. Instead, language must qualify as so-called “fighting words,” the use of which is not constitutionally protected. The term “fighting words” means language that tends to provoke or cause an act of violence on the part of the listener. In the words of one court, “conduct must have advocated imminent lawless action and been likely to incite a breach of the peace in order to be proscribable by the state.” Where the accused is “not exhorting others to breach the peace”, there is no crime.
The focus here really is on the listener. Would the language or conduct tend to provoke the listener to violence? There is different standard for words or conduct directed to police. Police officers are expected by law not to be as sensitive as members of the general public, and to be able to withstand certain conduct or words that ordinary citizens could not. Courts also recognize that citizens have a right to protest police action, even emotionally or emphatically. Again the focus is on whether the words or conduct used would incite others – officers or ordinary citizens within earshot – to react violently.
So here, the questions are: What did Gates actually say? If he was addressing the officer, where those statements intended to provoke the officer to react violently? Could the statements have provokes another bystander to violence?
Of course, the decision as to whether or not a particular incident such as this amounts to a crime happens later, in court. At the scene, practically speaking, the officer has the discretion to arrest and charge disorderly conduct as he sees fit. That charge may or may not hold up in court, and often it doesn’t. Realistically the officer would probably not face any backlash (unless the accused happens to be a prominent Harvard professor.)
No authority to arrest for CONTEMPT OF COP
What makes the situation different is that Gates' alleged loud and tumultuous statements happened in Gates home, and therefore was not a PUBLIC disturbance; and therefor Crowley could not arrest Gates unless and until Gates exhibited the same loud and tumultuous behavior in a public place, such as Gates front porch.
Crowley says he left the kitchen because Gates was so loud he couldn't hear his radio but what happened next is that Gates stepped on the porch, Crowley thanked him for cooperating and then slapped the cuffs on him on his own front porch for loud and tumultuous behaviour and because a crowd was gathering (as if five cops and cruisers do not draw a crowd; it must be the allegedly deranged black dude, right?). The DA looked at the facts and knew the charge was meritless, Gates as a B&E suspect was no longer, and the public disturbance charge was problematic because it clearly flowed from the conversation that happened in the house.
Crowley arrested Gates for CONTEMPT OF COP, which is not a law but that doesn't stop police officers from doing so, to assert their authority when they feel 1) it/they are not respect 2) they think it'll fly. Crowley charged Gates with Public Disorder, even though most of this exchange happened while Gates was in his house. I would say Crowley was rady to show this guy who was the boss and did and regrets it but nonetheless, would never apologize.
Crowley doesn’t know he can’t arrest people for contempt of cop. He and the police union will convince themselves Crowley went by the book on this arrest because ‘cops jobs are tough enough without having to put up with being yelled at and called a racist’.
Gates couldn’t think of any other reason he would be investigated as a B&E suspect in his own home or of another other reason why Crowley wouldn’t tell him his name and badge number.
People with things in common with Gates will worry that it could happen to them. Most people will say Gates should have know better and that he got what he deserved because you can’t go around yelling at a cop or calling him a racist or he’ll rightly arrest you.
Gates claims Crowley lied on the incident report.
In Boston, and probably a lot of locations, residents know that if you sound off at a cop they’ll bust you because they can. What’s surprising to me is how that idea is generally accepted as reasonable. It is not reasonable and we should demand better.
I’m happy to learn about Duran; that he challenged and won.
Well said!
Karen Zgoda
http://www.karenzgoda.org
http://www.fussy-eater.com
http://editmymanuscript.com
Plenty of smaller people
Plenty of smaller people have harmed people larger then them. When someone is in a closed location they could pick up a weapon. I am not even talking about guns, Im talking about a kitchen knife a heavy object, a pair of scissors. Just because someone is bigger then the average adult does not mean they do not feel pain.
You seem like the type who can defend yourself. I am sure if someone tried to sneak up on your you would do your thing. Which should be shocking considering your logic. After all your only a woman, a mother, a middle aged woman (from what I understand.) My well doesn't that mean you should be feeble? Yet we have heard reports from you saying you have hit cars with your fists and objects that almost hit you on the bike. You talk about wanting to pick fights when men. While I believe much of your rhetoric is just shooting from the hip I also believe that even as a middle aged mother of children you are capable of inflicting harm on an unsuspecting well built adult male in his 30's. Go ahead tell me I'm wrong.
Recruited?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Q1dhH4axI
BTW, I did not get that impression from the 2 minutes or so of the radio show that I listened to. I thought he came across OK.
I would love to believe Gates, but
Unless he goes out of his way to help his neighbor in Somerville, who just got a small award from the city for absorbing a beating from three white cops still on the city's payroll, I simply can't believe he really is in this because of racism. THAT is racism: to be beaten to a pulp behind a former mafia gambling parlor in East Somerville, to sue, and to be forced to settle for less than 2% of the face of the suit simply sucks. Where is Gates? Where is Ogletree? You'd think half of Harvard didn't already live in Somerville, and, perhaps, it's only guys like Gates and Ogletree who can afford to stay in Cambridge!
Check it out on the Somerville Journal site http://tinyurl.com/nvkztc
Regardless....
I wasn't in Cambridge last Thursday, so I don't know what happened there.
That said, the quotes from the on D&C show sound pretty reserved and professional. Refusing to demand an apology from the president, the quote about how Obama has bigger things to do... all very professional.
This:
"The president has a lot of other daunting tasks ahead of him," Crowley said. "I wish for the good of the whole country that he is successful in efforts to do the many things that he has to."
and this:
"I think it is regrettable that anybody on either side of this issue would make comments - and you know I saw some of them, but I think its regrettable that anybody, either somebody who supports me or somebody who thinks I acted inappropriately -- without knowing the whole story, without talking to those who were there who have firsthand knowledge of the events and who saw themselves the way in which professor Gates acted and what led to his arrest."
are pretty reasonable things to say. Certainly doesn't come off like a Mark Fuhrman to me.
Although I can understand why he doesn't WANT to apologize
for the totality of the incident, because the incident was perhaps turned ugly by misunderstanding and Gates flying off the handle, the lasting problem is created by the fact that he arrested him at the end, and IMHO, should not have.
I suspect that's why the PD apologized: because although the sergeant did nothing wrong procedurally, they felt the arrest (and only the arrest) was either unnecessary or unwarranted, if only after review, and they wanted to just walk away from all of this.
Gates is nothing more than a
Gates is nothing more than a race bater. He is in the same mold as Sharpton and Jackson. I am sure he was upset and rightfully so but he also saw this as a way to get exposure and fame. Complete nonsense.
You should know
You're a master.
Bater.
I am astonished by the racism on comment boards all over Boston
What is so hard about trying to put yourselves in someone else's shoes? I am not black but I know that, without a doubt, yep, life is harder if you're black in America. What is so difficult about admitting that?
You are wrong. Maybe you should read some of his work, & learn
how to spell "bait", which is correct in this case. You don't want bate, as in bated or abatement, in this case.
Gates not behaving in a scholarly and mature manner
What's really disappointing is that Gates, as a highly educated scholar, could have used this situation to start a mature and serious dialogue on the subject of race in the U.S., but instead he has taken to the airwaves in a belligerent, angry and most unprofessional manner to berate the Cambridge officer. An opportunity is ruined -- that's a shame.
taken to the airwaves? how
taken to the airwaves? how so?
Crowley is an expert in racial profiling
Associated Press discovers:
That will surely be
an enormous comfort to black people in Cambridge.
According to his colleagues, (some black)
Crowley is a low-key guy. This would have been stepping WAY out of character for him. I think it's safe to say that Crowley has at least attempted to understand African-Americans a lot more than Gates has tried to understand what law enforcement goes through. The fact that his name is now used in the same sentence as Sharpton and Jesse Jackson says, in a way, he has already lost. He could have been the academic Dee Brown. Now he's a guy with the same PBK key as Howie Carr, who has done about as much to bring the races together.
The fact that his name is
Aging cynic, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, can you f@#$%ing believe there names are in the same sentence? For shame.
Gates is Irish
Funny how he doesn't ever mention it...
Found on ethnicelebs.com
Birth Name:
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
Birth Place:
Piedmont, West Virginia, United States
Date of Birth:
September 16, 1950
What Race or Ethnicity?:
Black and Caucasian
The American scholar and professor at Harvard University is well known for hosting the television series, African American Lives and African American Lives 2, where he helped notable African Americans find their ancestry. In the first series, it was found that Gates is partly descended from the Yoruba people of Nigeria and also has Irish heritage.
I wonder why isn't he out there helping Irish Americans find their ancestry too? If he is such a nice person, I'd expect that he would be out there helping all people of all races.
Oh, that's just BS
Or maybe you missed the interview I saw this week in which Gates went into great detail on his ethnic background. He said something like how it would be ridiculous for him to race-bait whites because he's half white himself. So it's not like he's hiding it.
while we're on the topic of racism
Please enjoy this 2004 essay by Debra Dickerson, black intellectual, professional pot-stirrer.
"One reason for bigotry's maddening intractability is that a determination—however knee-jerk, superficial, or unthinkingly made—that something or someone is racist ends the discussion, as happened with my friend. The verdict is "guilty" and the only punishment is forfeiture of the right to consider yourself a decent human being. Better to be a necrophiliac than an admitted bigot. Yet if we are to evolve on the issue of race, the notion that you, or someone else, is racist ought to function as the beginning of the attainment of full humanity, not the proof that you've relinquished it."
Gates' ego got in the way.
Gates' ego got in the way. Why else would he have provided the officer with a Harvard ID, as opposed to a license with a clear address?
It was Gates' way of saying, "Don't you know who I am?" When the officer was not inpressed, Gates' impatience with a non-professorial, non-academic, public servant got in his way and he made it a race issue.
I truly believe that blacks suffer disproportionately at the hands of law enforcement in this country. But this was not one of those times. It would have happened the same way had all things been the same had Gates been white.