Hey, there! Log in / Register
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
This has been happening
This has been happening throughout the summer on Centre St in JP and also West Roxbury. Apparently, you can be ticketed if the "pedestrian" just steps into the crosswalk but doesn't actually cross the street.
I am a committed pedestrian who doesn't drive, but this sounds a bit extreme even to me.
Of course you can be
Of course you can be ticketed if the pedestrian steps onto the street but doesnt begin to cross. Why should he cross if hes unsure if youre going to stop? Most people are too scared to begin crossing until they see the car has come to a complete stop.
I wish they did this around fenway. Red sox patrons who drive in from the suburbs are the biggest massholes.
Centre St in JP? That's
Centre St in JP? That's about the last place in this city I'd say a sting operation is needed-- drivers in JP are incredibly gracious (when they're not on the J-way)
This is so not true in Hyde
This is so not true in Hyde Square! Most of the drivers around the Hyde Square traffic circle speed up just so they can make it to the crosswalk before you do! But I do agree that in other parts of JP the drivers are very courteous!
A short while ago, I noticed
A short while ago, I noticed that Hopkinton received a $5000 grant to pay for overtime to enforce pedestrian and bicycle laws. There were 16 other similar grants in MA.
I love it
Enforcing pedestrian safety and bicycle laws need to be specially funded overtime? Ehl-oh-ehl.
score one for the good guys
As one who had to dodge and weave between the brutes again today just to bag my lunch in Brookline: Undercover Peds, I salute you.
you have to "take" the crosswalk
Massachusetts law requires drivers to yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk, but it is a common misconception that they have to stop for people waiting to cross. Ideally, there should be cooperation; e.g. the ped waits for an opening, steps off the curb, and the cars stop. But that would require courtesy and respect. Sometimes it is there, but at some times of the day, there a palpable malevolence in the air and God help the person trying to break in front of someone in a car.
Big Umbrella
I have long found that sticking a big umbrella out into the crosswalk helps. Gets lots of snarls from would-be jerkasses who are suddenly jolted from their "much more important things to do than drive", but it gets the job done.
Then again, Boston Cops don't have to stop for strollers.
I want to know you're crossing
You bring up a good point. I will stop for a pedestrian at a crosswalk anytime, no problem. I just have to know that they actually want to cross, and your umbrella move is a good one because it signals your intentions clearly.
Sometimes I'll see one or two people at a crosswalk, maybe talking to each other, listening to their iPod, just kind of spacing out, etc., and I can't tell if they want to cross or if they're just waiting for a bus, so I keep going. If they are actively looking at traffic, I'm stopping.
One Golden Rule that trumps everything for me: People with small kids trying to cross get a break every time, crosswalk or not.
Also in Quincy
They do this in the summer time outside my office building on Hancock Street in Quincy too. A female officer in plainclothes steps into the crosswalk pushing a baby carriage. It's a little depressing how many people they catch with this, you would think a baby carriage would get people to stop...
Fields Corner
The BPD uses the same tactics on Dot Ave at the corner of Adams St in Fields Corner once or twice a year. They have been doing this for a few years.
Just one question:
If drivers failing to yield to pedestrians in Hopkinton crosswalks is such a rampant problem, then why do the police need to resort to having a "fake" pedestrian (i.e. the police's "dupe" in the walk) crossing the street back and forth all day long?
Seems to me that they could just monitor regular crosswalks for violators instead.
As one who principally commutes as a pedestrian myself, I'm all for increased enforcement of traffic laws. However, while this practice doesn't quite rise to the level of entrapment, it still appears to me that Hopkinton and other police agencies that employ similar "sting" operations are on a potential slippery slope here.
And no, I am not, never have been, nor do I desire to be, an attorney or to play one on TV.
Having a dedicated person to
Having a dedicated person to constantly walk through the crosswalk is exponentially more efficient than paying two cops to sit around waiting for a pedestrian and vehicle to encounter one another at an intersection at just the right momenst. Regardless of how rampant the problem is, the elimination of one variable means your tax dollars are being spent more wisely to protect you and your fellow pedestrians.
Good thing you're not an attorney
Because the only way this even comes *close* to entrapment is if there's a cop in the passenger seat yelling "Pedestrian: 10 points!" and egging you on to hit the undercover cop with your car.
Better use of time?
Maybe it's just a better use of the officer's time. Remember, this is Hopkinton (I live here) and it may be awhile before the next pedestrian shows up - seriously. There are some busy intersections, but frankly, not a ton of pedestrian traffic. So, if the officer is semi-continuously crossing the street, he'd have a better chance of getting run down... ;-)
define "rampant".... if it
define "rampant".... if it happened 80% of all driver-pedestrian meetings would that be a problem? That doesn't necessarily mean it is happening every 5 minutes
Check out this video showing
Check out this video showing a sting in Sacramento.
The undercover cop signals which cars should be stopped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACEmyS_EDPI&feature...
This helps eliminate the problem of "the pedestrian wasnt crossing yet" or some other excuse because the other cop can confirm that he was indeed crossing.
Also, as others pointed out, you can enforce (and educate) the law better when you have a pedestrian/cop crossing every 30 seconds instead of standing around to wait.
I *am* an attorney, and I
I *am* an attorney, and I have no clue what the standards are for entrapment. However, most importantly, I believe entrapment is only a defense to criminal actions, whereas traffic violations are civil. Secondly, using your logic (and putting aside the law), would it be considered "entrapment" that they post speed limit signs? "But wait, your honor, they *purposely* put up the speed limit sign so I would *know* that I had to drive that speed, and then they nabbed me just as I violated that law."
Anyway, I appreciate that you said you're not an attorney, and I'm not trying to rag on you. I'm just a fellow pedestrian/cyclist who enjoys hearing about laws being enforced against motormaniacs (and yes, I'm also a driver who has failed, by accident, to stop for people in the crosswalk. I am very conscious of stopping for people in the crosswalk - especially in places where other drivers don't even think a crosswalk exists).
Oh, and another thing, as a pedestrian, I have to say, I have no sympathy for pedestrians who jaywalk in a crosswalk in front of cars that have a green light or in the middle of street in front of cars that are traveling along minding their own business. That just pisses drivers off and creates more conflict/tension between drivers and peds.
As an attorney, I know the writing in my post is not the best. I'm just rushing and am not taking the time to edit/revise.
Execellent points by you and others. Thanks for giving me a
better understanding about the logic behind such operations.
And yes, posting speed limit signs would obviously not be considered entrapment.
I was in Switzerland
two weeks ago staying with long-time friends in a town of about 8,000 situated right on Lake Lucerne. I learned quickly that you stop for pedestrians entering the well-marked crosswalks. No excuses, all drivers adhere to this rule! Also, I noticed that there was virtually no jaywalking, either, on the part of pedestrians. They cross only at marked crosswalks.