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Davis Square could get a Roche Bros.
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And just how do they expect
And just how do they expect to get deliveries to that place, without ruffling everyone's feathers? Yeah , that's going to work out. Maybe be able to park in front of the Coronet !
The alleyway behind that building
is already used by all sizes of trucks.
Try to make the corners,
Try to make the corners, Davis square is no place for a supermarket. They need loading docks. Roche Bros get their groceries out of CT on 48 ' , maybe even 53' trailers. In addition, where do all the trucks park while waiting for the loading dock ? Check out any supermarket and see the amount of trucks waiting to grab the docks.
Brothers Marketplace, not full supermarket
From the illustration that Alderman Connolly provided, the proposal is for a 'Brothers Marketplace', which is Roche's new smaller-store brand. They have only two so far, in Weston and Medfield, both opened within the last three months.
Porter Square Star
Has been in existence for YEARS and managed to do OK with its deliveries. And no, it does not have a full loading dock. Same with Family Dollar in Davis (which uses the rear parking lot) and the (ex) McDonald's was okay also, and the same with CVS.
You'd be surprised how logistics can make this work. It's not that much of a big deal as you may think as most deliveries are done in the wee early morning long before many cars, and pedestrians are present.
I think many would be in favor of this considering the college kids near by, the number of 'walkable' residents, and foot traffic it would generate. And considering the closets supermarkets are the Porter Square Star (which is mobbed), Star on beacon (to act as a overflow for the Porter Star), and the Stop & Shop (ex Johnnies) at Clarendon Hill, it would be a welcome addition.
(I speak as a former Davis square resident also)
I think the Star had two dock
I think the Star had two dock openings. But it also had a street there with good passage. Those businesses you mentioned are all different logistically. You might get a grocery trailer dropped in the wee hours, but the other vendors run day hours. Been to both squares , in a trailer, It is a crap shoot navigating and parking. But , Porter square is not Davis square, just close , that's it.
How does the Trader Joe's on Boylston do it?
Zero dock space whatsoever.
Anyone know?
right on
Boylston street in the early morning hours.
I know of two TJ , one on
I know of two TJ , one on Beacon street Brookline, the other on Memorial Drive Cambridge. Need a supersized tailgate ( was told they cost $20 grand ) on trailer to lower pallets of product to street level.
Star
A big truck is a big truck regardless of where's is going..
Star has one (its on the Elm Street side), just so you know. And all vendors use that one loading dock. It works for them. And it could work for Roche too.
I am also a former Davis
I am also a former Davis Square resident who lived on one of the main residential roads leading into Davis. The increase in full-sized tractor trailer trucks coming in and out of Davis increased significantly over the last five years.
Cambridge has closed off all their "feeder streets" from Mass Ave to the Star Market in Porter. Somerville refuses to consider restricting truck size or delivery days and times around Davis or Porter.
As a result, our street was constantly full of potholes from heavy truck wear and tear. Our building shook with vibrations and walls cracked. The trucks that deliver to Davis Square businesses have to double-park because the loading zones are too small.
Every day at 10:30pm an eighteen wheeler truck would roar into Davis to deliver one dolly of goods to Starbucks. The store manager said there was nothing he could do.
Urban growth and vibrant squares are all well and good but sometimes I think Somerville officials are out of their league when it comes to nuts and bolts planning.
Think I've been there , but
Think I've been there , but thanx for the update.
Dude , there is a BIG
Dude , there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between dragging a 53' , or 48' , or 28' trailer around.With respect to all this dialogue, this is a classic case of it looks good on paper one dimensional pieces of paper , but the real three dimensional reality of time ,space ,and distance proves to be much different. Add in a side order of unintended consequences, and you will have a whole pile of people pissed off at the workings of conducting the business, but yet screaming the need for one. I like the Brothers, but you all people are going to have to accommodate your lofty standards to the nuts and bolts , dust and noise. You want night time deliveries , you are going to hear refrigerator motors running , truck gears shifting, smell lingering diesel exhausts , trailers being dropped and hooked ,doors slamming, the list goes on. And if you require special kid glove service, you are going to pay for it on the cost of the items sold. That's the cold hard facts. And by the way , it is industry standard , for safety reasons , to blow the air horn before hooking a trailer. You'll love that at 200 am, or do you want to be responsible for some guy getting crushed because you don't think it's necessary , and put that on your overwhelming list of demands and conditions , once the Brothers commit. Carry on.
I still stand by..
A truck is a truck is a truck.
Why are you so against this? Seriously.. Are you against progress?!? Or do you work for a competitor and worry about losing business?
Like I said I LIVED In Davis, it's already noisy. I'd take a grocery store opening up in the square than to be forced to go to Star Porter ever again.
PS - You WOULD NEVER remove a trailer from a truck near store. NEVER. You back up, you unload, and then drive off.
PPS - You are really miss guided by this and are just spouting off NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY. You're exactly why the metro area is held back. It's always about NIMBY. Again, you don't wanna deal, there's a million homes in the burbs with your name on. Have at it. I hear Concord is nice this time of year.. nice and quiet.
I'm going to nit pick here a bit but...
You do actually see detached trailers at loading docks quite frequently. For example, Shaws/Star Market uses their trailers to transport certain things from store to store, or from a central warehouse to the store. These trailers are often dropped, and the truck will take a separate trailer back. This second trailer could be empty, or filled with things for another destination. These trailers are often full of non-perishable food items, or spare pallets, racks, carts etc., so the trailer also serves as a secondary short term storage.
They used to back haul their
They used to back haul their rubbish , a lot of cardboard to be cycled. That's why they drop and swap trailers. Then it can be unloaded at the convenience of the store help and not tie up the driver , keeping him productive and legal , in terms of running hours.
Pressing Need and Proper Planning - NOT Nimby-ism
Incorrect. This is not about moving to Concord but about proper city planning and consideration for ALL residents.
Somerville has been green-lighting projects with whip-lash speed. There are FULL-SERVICE grocery stores in Porter and Teele with plenty of parking and frequent bus service.
Small independent stores offer meat, produce and specialty items right IN Davis Square.
Does Davis really need this type of store and will the various city departments in Somerville and Cambridge actually work together to think through the details?
I have my doubts...
These are all minor, niggling objections
compared to the large benefit of having a full-service (though smallish) grocery in the Square.
By the way, there's a striped-off "no parking" zone on Chester Street right against the corner of Elm, which would be perfect for loading (since it's not used for anything else).
There was a loading zone
There was a loading zone there years ago for the Coronet , was too small.....
PS - You WOULD NEVER remove a
PS - You WOULD NEVER remove a trailer from a truck near store. NEVER. You back up, you unload, and then drive off.
Are you flucking shipping me ? Really dude you don't have a clue. Stay away from the real three dimensional world. You couldn't possibly be connected to any productive economic activity. I grew up in the city , and been to places you would shit your pants to be around. How old are you anyway , 13 ?
What is their plan Downtown?
There is a store opening soon - what is the plan for deliveries there?
underground
loading dock on Chauncy under the new high rise portion of the building.
Been there , Jordan Marsh
Been there , Jordan Marsh docks......
I think you mean Filene's or Filene's Basement?
since that's who last occupied the building where Roche Bros. is going.
Been there too , two dock bay
Been there too , two dock bay street level, one bay dropped 28' trailer.. I meant the concept of burrowing underground for loading docks, Jordan's is across the street, but the docks were accessed from Chauncey. Also the Lafayette , whatever it is now , has underground docks.Its not a new thing.
Porter Sq. Star
I used to make deliveries to the Porter Sq star when, but only in a 26' box truck, and even that could be tricky. There are 3 doors there, but 1 is usually taken by a trailer parked there for long term stints. The other two are active, and the Elm St. side gets used by bread trucks & other trucks too small to use the loading docks. The porter sq one is tight, but I'm sure there's more challenging ones out there.
It may not be ideal, but in an area with such narrow streets, we don't have much choice. Have some faith in these truckers, they are far more skilled than you might think.
4 loading dock bays at Porter Square Star Market
at Elm and Davenport. (I just rode by there a half hour ago).
Also, I wonder if Star uses some of the other loading-dock space further down Davenport.
I stand corrected...
It's been a couple years since I was doing deliveries, thanks for the correction!
Whole Foods Charles River Plaza
Has one loading dock. Seems to work out.
come to inman! There are
come to inman! There are several storefronts available.
Anyone else appreciate
this non MB Artie story?
Don't worry
I’m sure that Rebekah Gewirtz and her Ward Six pearl clutchers will come in to stomp and scream and hold their breath until this goes away because it wasn't personally approved by them. At least it’s not another place that serves terrifying hamburgers.