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Something fishy about Baker's teary story?
By adamg on Fri, 10/31/2014 - 9:12am
Seems the crack investigative reporters at the Globe can't find the fisherman whose tale in 2009 or 2010 moved Charlie Baker to tears the other day.
Baker on Thursday acknowledged that he may have misstated some of the particulars of the story he told tearfully during a debate this week. That, in turn, has complicated efforts to locate the man whose hardships, in Baker’s retelling, produced one of the most remarkable moments in this year’s race for governor.
Eileen McNamara writes:
And what of the clear-eyed Martha Coakley? She wept that very morning at the memorial service for a union organizer who fought for decent wages and benefits for the workingmen and women of Massachusetts for more than 30 years. Coakley even remembered his name. For the record, it was John Laughlin.
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More info here
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20141029/NEWS/141029327
Who Knows?
The media can't find out every little detail so they paint the man a liar.
OR
He made the whole thing up which makes him a total scumbag.
I would have rather he just said, "Look. I'm running for Governor. I'm not the crying type. I work my ass off and I'm successful. I don't have time for crying. If you want a pussy for Governor elect someone else. Crying is for people with lots of time."
Then I would have said... "But if my wife and kids got killed in a plane crash I promise I would definitely cry and I would let you media idiots film it ok?"
What a stupid friggin question in the first place. Am I voting based on who has the best crying story?
http://cappyinboston.blogspot.com/
The media can't find out
That seems perfectly reasonable, if, by "every little detail", you mean "his entire story".
I'm not voting for Baker, but
I'm not voting for Baker, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think it would be hard to track down some guy who randomly had a brief interaction with someone years ago. I mean, I remember some Target cashier being a dick to me 10 years ago, but I don't even know where to begin tracking her down. That doesn't mean I'm lying about it.
Seriously, if this is the deciding issue of the election, God help us all.
If anyone bases their vote on
If anyone bases their vote on a story about crying, either for or against they shouldn't be voting
Or...
Or...
"I cried yesterday when watching re-runs of the 2004 Red Sox winning their first championship in 86 years"
There, nailed it.
Any man who cries over a ball
Any man who cries over a ball game is not a man
As he was telling that story,
As he was telling that story, I knew something didn't add up. We all know if Coakley had cried at that moment and/or made up a story like that, she'd be getting roasted over the coals by everybody as being a fake. Baker should be held to the same standard.
Rachel Maddow did an amazing
Rachel Maddow did an amazing job covering this last night:
http://on.msnbc.com/1zPc0ss
Never thought I'd see The Standard Times used as a source on her show!
I am a Liberal
But come on. Of course Rachel Maddow jumped on a story that makes a Republican look bad.
I mean, SURPRISE!!!!
What?
You don't get a kick out of her obsession with reporting every stupid thing that Scott Brown does that Joe Battenfeld ignores because of his man crush on ex-Senator Cosmo? I know I do!
Joe Battenfeld
has the political acumen of a doorknob.
Don't insult
doorknobs. They've met more kings and queens than Sen. Brown.
She maybe the
Most biased person on TV, possibly even beating out Bill O'Riley!
Nothing compared to Beck
For my money Beck is the biggest partisan. Would love to see a Beck v. Maddow UFC cage match.
Now that's entertainment.
Beck is extremely bias
However he did predict the Islamic Caliphate, while people like Mathews and Maddows called him crazy, an islamophobe and a fear monger.
Well...........
Really
For a "biased" person, she certainly packs a lot of factual evidence into her statements.
But, then again, it seems that "reality" is biased for those who don't want to be bothered with fact checking their thruthy memes, eh?
You can be biased
In the way you completely ignore any and all negative stories that impact the Democratic party while harping on the Republicans and only the Republicans. You can still can be completely truthful and still be biased.
Theoretical comment?
Maddow has shown little or no love to the banking industry and the Democrats in their pockets, either.
Not that you have watched much of her show and would know that.
The fact is that the Republicans oversupply stupid and ridiculous these days. Paul LeStoopid just north of us being the most recent circus peanut.
Got to love her response to the Koch Brothers sending her a script to read on air, though.
Who are you talking to?
I watch Maddow all the time. You sure are Snarky.
One of the biggest problems
One of the biggest problems in perceptions of the media today is the equating of having a viewpoint with having a bias. They are not the same thing. This has been reinforced by entities like Fox News that scream and yell about the liberal bias in media that largely does not exist. Every reporter has a viewpoint because all humans have a viewpoint. Having a bias is when one purposefully obfuscates facts and is untruthful in pursuit of said viewpoint. Maddow does not do that - she sources her material and is as willing to criticize Democrats as she is Republicans, if not more so when Democrats do not live up to progressive ideals. She is upfront about her viewpoint so the viewer is aware of it and can decide how much stock he/she wants to put into her reporting as a result. Someone like Shep Smith does the same on Fox, coming at it from a more conservative viewpoint. Someone like Bill O'Reilly or Ed Schultz is just a cheerleader for their side at all times no matter what. Now, I would say people in general should not get their news from cable in the first place but that's a comment on the entire medium.
Wow
This really shows how desperate Coakley supporters are, grasping for straws! The VAST majority of voters have already made up their minds, speculative stories like this aren't going to sway many people 4 day out.
Hey Coakley, third time's the charm!
You misunderestimate the press
Coakley's supporters don't have to do anything - just sit back and enjoy the show.
Political reporters live for this sort of thing - they're investigating all on their own, without any need for prods from the competing candidate.
Are you
Honestly saying MSNBC and Justin Bieber don't have a political agenda.
Don't be so sure of that
I despise Coakley, and wouldn't vote for her anyway. I'd leave the ballot blank.
These sorts of things just shore up my support for Non-Baker Non-Coakley candidates.
Independents?
Instead of leaving your ballot blank, you could vote for independents. The great thing about them is that you don't need to worry that your vote will accidentally push a crazy candidate over the edge into winning, but your vote *will* encourage more and better independents to run without being beholden to the party line of whatever letter they decide to put after their name.
Bad Idea
Having a strong 3rd party without voting reform is worst then the current two party system. If you divide the vote evenly among three people you get someone winning with just 34% of the vote. I don't want government decided by such a small portion of the population.
What we need is voting reform for an [instant] run-off based system where the winner will still need to have 50% once you count the preferences of the losing candidates. Without a run-off a 3rd party has the potential to make things much worst, not better. Just look at Maine for proof.
Once a run-off voting style is implemented, THEN 3rd parties will gain much needed influence.
As much as I hate LaPage, and
As much as I hate LaPage, and understand why people blame an active 3rd party candidate for him being there, you have to remember that Independent candidates in Maine have a strong history. Angus King was Governor for 8 years and is now a Senator. While LaPage was elected because of the strength of the 3rd party, he also was elected because there was not a strong support for Libby Mitchell. And you also have to consider that the difference between Cutler and LaPage was less than the number of votes for the #4 candidate, a Different Independent. If Cutler had not been there, I suspect LaPage might have been elected anyway and Cutler seemed to have a better chance than Mitchell.
Falchuk
Only needs 3% of the vote to get his political party officially started. A vote for him could accomplish something, even if we are guaranteed to get one of the other two.
pffft..coakley supporters, really?
It was the Globe who endorsed Baker and the Globe who issued the difficulties verifying the story...Coakley may be gloating but ya can't lay this one at her feet. looks like Charlie may have stretched the truth, who knows? if he was lying he was convincing, if he wasn't he was just as convincing.
Someone thinks a politician lied?
Never!
Baker knows he makes Mitt
Baker knows he makes Mitt Romney look human, so he created a story from half truths and pretended to cry, hoping to win over some independents because people are growing increasingly skeptical of the MBA governor, after Mitt, George Bush et al. But the crying was really tears of fear as Coakley is catching up, even though Wall Street and the Koch Brothers have given him a 10:1 advantage with cash. We cant afford another trickle down economics governor.
A 10:1 advantage with cash?
Have any citations to back that up? You do your candidate no favors by just making stuff up ...
It was 11:1 after the primary
It was 11:1 after the primary, but I see it went down to 6:1, sorry.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/10/07/former-new-york-mayor-michae...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/27/1339583/-Massachusetts-Democrat...
ZOMG Koch Bros $$$ is ruining
ZOMG Koch Bros $$$ is ruining politics!!!!!111
Meanwhile:
George Soros
Michael Bloomberg
Ted Turner
Mark Zuckerberg
Bill Gates
Warren Buffet
and hundreds of other uber liberal people donate the same if not more $$$ and crickets.
Talking points
IF string="Koch" then spew:
George Soros
Michael Bloomberg
Ted Turner
Mark Zuckerberg
Bill Gates
Warren Buffet
;
Other talking points
If String = set{George soros...warren buffett}
Then spew.
Seriously Swirly - I have Fox News loving family that has "facts" that you don't recognize as "facts". Then you come out with Maddow's "facts" that they don't recognize as "facts". What I've found is that if you take both sets of facts together, the conclusion is that you are dealing with a complex problem and many facts. If you look at all the facts, you don't come up with Maddow's conclusion or Fox and Friends' conclusion - there may not be a "right" answer, but all the good answers lie on a continuum well right of Maddow and far left of Foxes. The problem is that if you think that's a good answer, the Maddowites call you a right wing nutjob and the Foxites call you part of a left wing mass media conspiracy.
Sucks to be a moderate. You're right (or pretty close to it) but everyone tells you you're wrong for opposite reasons.
Mitt, Bush, Kosh, Wall Steet!
Mitt, Bush, Kosh, Wall Steet! You forgot Faux News.
What this state cant (key word) "afford" is another Gov. like Deval. Deval hasn't been all that bad, but he royally f__ked us in regards to the ACA.
He is an absolute coward for not fighting to keep our states existing, functioning, and already implemented universal healthcare system in place. Instead he's wasted close to a Billion dollars of OUR MONEY to appease his pale Barack.
Coakley would be not different, look whose flown into the state from Washington to campaign of her behalf.
But ya, BUSH!
All facts is equal facts
So all those uppity doctors and nurses can just sit tight while I tell them whether or not they have Ebola. Escape is futile! My "facts" that are talking points are way more important than those actual verified scientific hocus pocusses that them egghead docs are making up to make me look like a not tough guy!
Yep. My facts are better - because I make them up and they scare people! harrumph!
People who use ZOMG should
People who use ZOMG should not be allowed to vote. Please grow up.
Totes legit
Amazeballs, if not adorbs.
Really?
Mitt, Bush, Kosh, Wall Steet! You forgot Faux News.
What this state cant (key word) "afford" is another Gov. like Deval. Deval hasn't been all that bad, but he royally f__ked us in regards to the ACA.
He is an absolute coward for not fighting to keep our states existing, functioning, and already implemented universal healthcare system in place. Instead he's wasted close to a Billion dollars of OUR MONEY to appease his pale Barack.
Coakley would be not different, look whose flown into the state from Washington to campaign of her behalf.
But ya, BUSH!
So when's the media going to
So when's the media going to pull out all the stops to find Coakley's cancer patient?
You mean the guy Eileen
You mean the guy Eileen McNamara named? Shouldn't be too hard to find him, once you discover what cemetery he's in.
I look forward to the interview ...
where they ask him to confirm the details of Coakley's statement.
It's not the best of crimes, it's not the worst of crimes...
Baker performed some political theater, undoubtedly based on a memory of something that more or less happened, somehow, sometime.
The only salient parts of this would be that he had to dig so far back into his memory to find something that moved him to tears (really? nothing since 2009?) and that the story is so so so very perfectly in line with the political image he wants to project. No wonder no one can find the original fisherman; whoever he is, he probably can't even recognize himself from Baker's description.
I have no intention of voting for Baker but this is not the worst thing a pol has ever done; it's just particularly telling of Baker that he calculated that this is the story to use when asked about feelings and humanity, and so kept it warming on the back of the stove.
Curious
If he just said that he couldn't remember the last time he cried and that he doesn't really cry much would that have been worse?
I'm seriously asking because most people , I may be wrong, don't cry all that much unless it's a death or some other heart breaking thing. Is that really an intelligent question to ask in order to make a candidate look human?
Cappy, given Baker's age, how
Cappy, given Baker's age, how likely do you think it is that he has lost no friends or family members, or had some other wrenching loss, in five years? And if he has, is it likely that he cried for the fisherman in 2009 but not for the death of someone he knew?
Most of us know people who rarely cry. My mom was a warm, loving person with a hug for everyone but I can't remember her crying even at my grandparent's funerals. She just wasn't a cryer.
Not crying is not the same as being cold and stoic. If Baker doesn't cry, he could have picked some other way to convey his warmth.
Baker is trying to undo his aloof, chilly, out of touch vibe. We all get that. And he used this particular story to do so. But he may have shot himself in the foot. Now it looks like he needs to exaggerate (or make up) a story so he seems more human. It was a misstep, not a catastrophe, though. People who like Baker probably will let it slide. The rest of us find it dishonest in a weird way.
Right
But my question was whether it would have been ok to just say, I really can't recall the last time I cried. It sounds like you believe that would have played right into the aloof, chilly, out of touch description he's trying to avoid.
One more thing
Cold and Stoic are two completely different qualities. Being stoic is a good quality in a leader I believe anyway.
true
Stoic is good, although few stoic pols manage to appear warm as well-- Obama's such a notable exception that people don't seem to know what to make of him.
I would be surprised if Baker has not cried at some point in the past ten years, though probably in private. Even if he hadn't, he could have said something like, "I was brought to the edge of tears when my friend (insert name) died, but seeing the strength of [his] beautiful [spouse] in the face of tragedy, my sorrow became admiration for [her] strength."
(Hey, not bad, off the top of my head)
And then he could do other things to show (not tell) that he's actually a warm, empathetic human being. For example, he could be a warm, empathetic human being.
I kid a little. He's no robotic Romney. But empathy is not something that can be painted on or written into a speech at the end of a race.
I dunno
You and I are opposites on this. I am thinking about voting for Baker, but if there's one thing I don't like about politicians, it's when they make things up. The big problem for Baker now is that he has a week-end to either find this guy or "clarify" the story. I mean, he owned the momentum up to now, but this could hurt him.
Admittedly, we should be looking at what the pols actually do and can do for the residents, but this is politics nowadays.
EDIT- My obsession of reading newspapers in print! By the end of the Globe article, there is a good explanation offered by the Baker campaign. Still, with the other things going on, who knows how this will end.
I dunno either
I really am not a Coakley fan. I was a moderate in this race and was considering jumping ship this one time but he just blew me back over to her side again I think.
I think the undeniable manufacturing of tears....
... is more perturbing than the possible manufacturing of the story. Very hard to imagine that, given the remoteness of the source story (presuming its existence), tears would flow naturally. I have no problem with manly tears under appropriate circumstances, but crocodile tears are another matter entirely.
What is the good explanation?
What is the good explanation? The thing about the fisherman from Southie? Even if that's the guy he hugged, Baker still embellished most of the story looks like.
Telling a little white lie is
Telling a little white lie is certainly not "the worst of crimes" that a politician can commit.
On the other hand, this sort of story is emblematic of American politicians' (and Americans') tendency to value emotional impact over, you know, actual reality. Which, some would argue, is one of the biggest problems in American politics today.
Broadcast News
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/mv-zp25/broadcast_news_film_tears_on_cue/
This
This may be the most accurate thing ever said in an online comment about the current state of our electorate.
Doesn't that speak more to
Doesn't that speak more to the current state of the general public? Politicians know that most voters (unfortunately) vote not for policy, but with emotion.
Elections are nothing more than a popularity contest these days. That's why ads focus on making the candidates likable rather than what the candidate plans to do when elected.
Our current president surely wasn't elected because of his track record during his short stint as a senator in arguably the most politically corrupt state in the country. He was young, likable, and well spoken.
Well, I did include
Well, I did include "Americans" in my description of the problem. Obviously if Americans didn't fall for this bullshit, it wouldn't be an issue, but at the same time, if politicians were more concerned with speaking the truth about actual political policy (or if the media were more willing to call them out on it), Americans might be in a better position to figure out what's really important. If I wanted to get into it a little more, I would describe it as a vicious circle involving politicians, public, and the media.
Yup, that's about it
Stands in stark relief to Thomas Menino, As quoted in the NYT:
It's about substance, detail, compassion, and drive - not theatre. The best we can honor a great mayor is to emulate him.
leave it to the NYT
to mis-spell "smaht"
Yes, I agree that reason &
Yes, I agree that reason & reality based policy should trump kowtowing to emotional whims, when they are at odds with each other. Witness the weirdness going on in Maine as the state tries to force that nurse into isolation although the science isn't much on their side. Fear pandering.
But I do think the ability to empathize with the people in one's constituency with whom you have little in common is important.
I dunno that finding out the last time someone cried would necessarily do it.
Have the crack investigative
Have the crack investigative reporters at the Globe reported that Martha said in the GBH debate that she was in favor of a graduated income tax, but has since been denying that she said what she said?
Internet searches are hard!
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=coakley+graduated+income+tax+site%3Abostonglobe...
Perhaps I'm late to the party
Perhaps I'm late to the party, but I was not familiar with lmgtfy.com . That is awesome.
Always glad to be of service.
Always glad to be of service.
No they're not
I was just too lazy to bother.
Cool story, bro.
Cool story, bro.
Any more on Coakley's lie on DiMasi corruption case?
Lifelong Democrat, Obama voter, former legislator and former Inspector General Greg Sullivan says Martha Coakley's office tried to stop his investigation into Democrat Speaker Sal DiMasi's corruption. Staffers in the Inspector General's office recall Sullivan talking about Coakley's interference. In response, Coakley says her office did help investigate DiMasi and Sullivan is either lying or doesn't have his facts straight. The US Attorney's office who successfully prosecuted DiMasi, thanked Sullivan's office for their help in the investigation but never mentioned Coakley's office. Do the math. I'd say Coakley's story is much more "fishy" than Baker's.
I heard that he's 1/32nd
I heard that he's 1/32nd Fisherman...
The fact that well known UHub
The fact that well known UHub conservative goofballs are coming out of the woodwork here to rehash tired lines about Elizabeth Warren and how the media somehow hasn't investigated Coakley enough despite story after story on this stuff is a pretty good indication that this Baker fisherman concoction has some legs.
And ...
That the Fish needs a bicycle - or some other healthy hobby.
Lighten up, Francis
It was a joke.
And as for "conservative goofballs" I split my ballot in that election, voting for Obama and Brown in 2012. Some of us grownups are capable of balancing more than a single idea in our minds, at a time.
Jokes are supposed to be funny
Not stupid.
Hey Swirly
Hurry up before someone else takes "I know you are but what am I?" off the board in the clever rejoinder contest.
Martha
I'm still having issues with Martha's campaign ad about mental illness, where she trots out her dead brother then says he took his own life shortly after "my parents" passed away. Not "our parents" but "my parents." I could easily be reading too much into it but something about that "my" disturbs me every time I hear it.
and her statement that..
"he had nowhere to go", then she gives this guilty look as if to say "including with me".
Maybe he'll be crying about
Maybe he'll be crying about "the one that got away" come Wednesday.