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Blowin' in the wind!

By SwirlyGrrl on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 12:48pm

My son's school just got a new wind turbine, and it is a thing of beauty. As we headed down I-93 this morning, it was spinning away, cranking out electrons to reduce my tax burden. The ribbon cutting was set for this morning at 10:30. More details from the Medford Clean Energy Committee.

IMAGE(http://insidemedford.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/wind_turbine.png)

Being 13, my guy was rather bored of the whole thing. He did, however, say that everytime he used a certain staircase last week, somebody would notice that more of it had been put in place. He relayed this with fashionable ennui, despite his thinly veiled enthusiasm about seeing the blades go on from his perch in the science lab.

Neighborhoods: 
Medford
Topics: 
Technology
Free tagging: 
alternative energy
wind power


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Comments

By Anonymous on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:01pm.

Wind turbines don't come cheaply. How was the project initiated and financed?

I loved your description of you 13 year old son:

Being 13, my guy was rather bored of the whole thing. He did, however, say that everytime he used a certain staircase last week, somebody would notice that more of it had been put in place. He relayed this with fashionable ennui, despite his thinly veiled enthusiasm about seeing the blades go on from his perch in the science lab.

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By SwirlyGrrl on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:54pm.

"I'm not excited about it. Not interested at all. It just means that we have to use a different door when the cranes were out."

(moves on to rundown of statistics about how tall it is, how big the blades are, how much energy it generates at specific wind speeds, how it will provide about 10-20% of the school's electricity needs, etc.)

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By Anonymous on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 5:15pm.

That's so great! LOL. Great Kid.

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By independentminded on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 6:28pm.

So's your 13-year-old son's response to it.

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By anon on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:07pm.

So that's a total loan cost of $634,155.00? To save $25,000.00 a year? Hmmm, something is fishy about those numbers...

Swirly, you've got some kinda fancy degree from MIT or something. Can you tell us at what point that windmill breaks even, including interest, maintenance, and obsolescence?

Near as I can tell, the lifespan is about 20 years for that kind of windmill, and the maintenance is about 1.5% of the price. (So say the Danish Wind Industry Association)

It looks to me like paying off that debt might cost more than the savings for the 20-year lifespan of the windmill. Toss that 12K annual maintenance cost on there and it seems like you might have yourself a tax cost there, not a tax savings. You'd have to make some might generous assumptions about lifespan and O&M to make that 634K break even... ever.

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By SwirlyGrrl on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:43pm.

There is substantial grant money involved here, coming from several sources. Allison didn't have all the details straight in her blog article. Multiply that number of kWh times the current cost of electricity in the area and that is a bit more than the stated savings. $25,000 is a conservative estimate. More information from the group that put this deal together.

Quoting that site:

Because the City saves thousands of dollars on electricity costs each year, the remaining cost of purchasing and erecting the turbine is expected to pay for itself within 7-8 years, or as little as one year if state appropriation funds are released. After that, the turbine will continue to provide Medford with clean energy for many years to come at nearly no cost to the City.

Where are you getting this $12,000 for annual maintenance??? Danish Wind Association? Um, no, all turbines are not alike. This one is most similar to the IBEW turbine in Dorchester.

And next time, read your sources before citing them in such an "authoritative" manner, anon: that 1.5% is for very much older wind turbines and designs - like, turbines installed in 1975. The article clearly states the differences, and how newer designs require vastly less maintenance.

That said, I love that you don't bother identifying yourself here ... and appear out of nowhere with some interesting "facts" and start the attack. How long have you been with SOS? Huh?

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By ShadyMilkMan on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:45pm.

Whats SOS?

I like this windmill, its not too big, anything bigger than that gets a bit obnoxious.

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By SwirlyGrrl on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:50pm.

It's the astroturf organization that opposes Cape Wind under the guise of "ordinary citizens" employed and paid by industrial interests.

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By Ron Newman on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 3:55pm.

I didn't realize that the 'Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound' had renamed itself 'Save Our Sound'.

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By anon on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 4:05pm.

I'm happy to hear that Medford has passed the cost on to someone else, so your tax burden will be lower! Free money from someone else is always good stuff, because it means you don't have to count anymore!

Okay, so break-even date = date some other sucker pays for it.

BTW, It's this part that might have created my idea of a 12K annual hit:

Older Danish wind turbines (25-150 kW) have annual maintenance costs with an average of around 3 per cent of the original turbine investment. Newer turbines are on average substantially larger, which would tend to lower maintenance costs per kW installed power (you do not need to service a large, modern machine more often than a small one). For newer machines the estimates range around 1.5 to 2 per cent per year of the original turbine investment

Does that look different when you read it?

See, I multipled 600K by 2% and got 12K. Did I do that wrong? Would you prefer the lower (1.5%) estimate of 9K?

Is there another source you would like to refer to with a lower estimate? I'm not pretending to be an expert. If you can make an argument with sources and numbers, I'll be interested to see it. But just calling me names doesn't really help your argument, much as you persist in thinking it does.

And what's SOS? (PS, you don't identify yourself either, "girl.")

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Windmills are cool!!! I'm just pointing out that 25K a year does not - ever pay off a turbine at 600K+. That's math. You studied it, right?

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By SwirlyGrrl on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 4:27pm.

Your figures for maintenance are still inapropriate for this particular turbine design. Quick google use yields real answers!

From: http://www.bsr-vt.org/Northwind.pdf

Recommended Annual Maintenance
*Simple
*2 people, one torque wrench, and a grease gun
*Approx. $1000 per year

As for the payback, that $25,000 per year is a conservative estimate.

170 MwH/year x $0.20/kwh = $34,000/year at current rates in the area.

Answer these questions: Do cities and towns use local aid money to pay for utilities for schools? Do they ever ask for more in times when energy prices are escallating? Why is that any different than getting grant money for a wind tower?

Consider this as well: if private nonprofits wish to dump money into these projects, how does that "shift the burden"? Huh?

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By anon on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 4:50pm.

Hey, thanks for providing some information. That's a very low maintenance cost. It sounds like eliminating the gearbox was a very good idea. I hope it proves out!

I'm happy to hear that the information provided by your first source (to wit, "The City Council approved a $600,000 loan order in July for construction of the turbine..." and "The project is expected to generate 170,000 Kilowatt hours per year, or about 10% of the school’s electricity. That’s a savings of $25,000") is incorrect. Because Northwind specifies a design life of 20 years. And 25K a year doesn't get to 600+K over 20 years. Those numbers really didn't work!

So congrats! The new numbers make it just about a wash (and on someone else's dime, not Medford taxpayers'), which is a win because of the externalities. That's super! And it'll be a great learning opportunity for the kids.

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By ShadyMilkMan on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 7:49pm.

The bigger wind turbines tend to break even alot faster, and the more windmills that are built the lower the price will drop, just like anything else. Grants are offered for things like this so the technology will become more widespread, and even if it is a wash (and someone else is footing part of the bill) its still reducing the amount of carbon entering the atmosphere and thats pretty cool in its own right. Most major innovations in our daily life came about because of some sort of government involvement, in the past that was often from the military and/or academia (Internet, interstate highway etc.) The ultimate goal is to make wind and solar power more affordable for the future...

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