UPDATE: Boston Police report the victim has died. See the comments below for some first-person accounts.
Kelton Street is closed at Comm. Ave., Kaz and Mike Juergens tweet.
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I would ask that those of you
By anon
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:09pm
I would ask that those of you who are making judgements or negative comments please keep in mind that her family and friends are following this feed and to respect their feelings in their time of grieving.
We are not making judgements
By fibrowitch
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:17am
We are discussing the possibility that this young woman with her entire life ahead of her has lost said life in such a sad and wasteful way. I understand the family is grieving.
Had she not run the red light she might still be alive, had she worn a helmet she might still be alive.
Might I respectively suggest that the family do something with their grief? Perhaps talk at local colleges about how their daughters life was cut short by a bicycle accident?
Those conclusions are
By anon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:24am
Those conclusions are premature. Not only is there not much information, but what information is available should not be taken as truth, given that initial reports are notoriously unreliable.
Cant we have a moment of respect?
By Mistaker
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:46pm
Every time this happens the internet devolves into some flame war between fixed gear v breaks, or pretentious snide remarks almost implying the departed deserved to be hit in some way. What's wrong with you people?
I girl died here. I have lost friends in bike and scooter accidents and have seen how it devastates family, friends and the community at large. Is this really the time to get into semantics, or cynical lectures from those have apparently never made a miscalculation or had a close call on the bike friendly streets of Boston.
Regardless of who's fault it is, or what bike she were riding, or what the technical term is, a 24 year old girl lost her life today and I think before anyone goes offering their condescension, before all the facts come out , no less, they should stop and respect the gravity of the situation.
My thoughts are with her family and friends as well as those of the driver and I hope we can all have the decency to give them some time to mourn.
bingo
By spd
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 4:16pm
bingo
Deserved it?
By Kaz
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 6:23pm
I don't see a single comment here that suggests the canard that she deserved to die. My comment was that she was not riding intelligently. Eyewitnesses have her riding through that particular intersection from coming down that particular hill (which I'm very familiar with having lived on it for 10 years) through a red light and without a helmet. Those are facts and the simplest conclusion from these facts is that she was not riding intelligently yesterday. That doesn't preclude her from ever riding intelligently, or being a smart and otherwise very amazing person. In the end, she made a costly mistake yesterday.
It should not be considered disrespectful to acknowledge the facts as we learn them. Her friends and family may better be served by sticking to reading and discussing their remembrances of her elsewhere if they don't want to read people discussing the facts of the matter at hand at a local news/aggregator site. They're also welcome to share all of their remembrances as there's plenty of room in the comments for more than just a discussion of the facts. As long as no one is being crass about it or worse, I don't see the compelling reason to stifle a rational discussion of what happened yesterday.
Rational discussion, Kaz?
By StopIt
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 6:32pm
Reporting the facts as they come in is one thing, casting judgment and adding your own editorial license to those facts is quite another. "She was not riding intelligently." That's your own conclusion, based on access to very few "facts" actually in.
(which I'm very familiar with having lived on it for 10 years): Yep, all about you.
Well
By Kaz
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:55am
Do you think she was riding intelligently?
That's the point
By StopIt
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 9:53am
It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what you think. The facts you gathered should speak for themselves if you've strung enough of them together. Let them. You're too good let yourself sound this self-important.
Whether or not she was riding intelligently
By anon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:22am
in your or anyone else's opinion isn't the point. The point is that she's dead. Happy scootering today Kaz!
Well, there is this post....
By Michael Kerpan
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 7:38pm
"brakeless fixed-gear riders deserve anything they get"
Ah
By Kaz
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:56am
Sorry, I had my anti-Brett screed filter on.
Respect
By A
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:52pm
Please refrain from negative comments and judgements. Remember her family and friends are following this feed and deserve the utmost respect and privacy in their grieving.
Nothing on Wicked Local?
By Kaz
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:18pm
How wicked disappointing...they're usually pretty good about covering stories like this.
On top of that, there have been 3-4 bike-related collisions in and around Brighton/Allston in the past few days and I can't find anything about them in the Globe or anywhere else either.
Globe finally posted something
By adamg
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:29pm
Shortly after 2 p.m. today.
Meh
By Kaz
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 3:58pm
That's impressive. Here, you didn't even have to go out and find witnesses and you've already got more details in the comments here than their MetroDesk has after 24 hours.
Did you notice if they wrote something up for the accident over at the Pike exit/entrance?
I am a daily bike commuter,
By Mona Mour
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 4:03pm
I am a daily bike commuter, and I always try to observe the rules of the road. I don't even ride to the corner without my helmet. Even if you're doing everything right and drivers are doing everything right, you just can't plan for what might happen, and you're way too fragile on a bike with no helmet on. I just don't know what possesses people to go helmet-less on major Boston roads, much less run a red light while (allegedly) listening to your iPod. How can people think they're so invincible???
Plus now this driver, who it appears was doing absolutely nothing wrong, has to live with the fact that they killed someone. All because people don't want to muss their hair, or take the time to put on their helmet, or don't want to worry about carrying it around, or forgot it.
I'm very sorry she died, and I hope people learn a lesson from this. Wear your helmet ALWAYS, no matter how quick you plan to be or how light the traffic looks. It's like sex without a condom, friends. It only takes one time.
Helmet off for a moment
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 4:42pm
Yes, there are a lot of crash situations where helmets help - I still have one with a big crack to show the boys every time they start to get indecisive about theirs. I tossed out another that quite literally saved my face in another wreck years later.
I'm not sure a helmet would have mattered here. However, most accidents are not this extreme and sad. The more common situations - dooring, sand skidding, etc. - helmets can make a huge difference.
As the kids across the street say "you always wear your helmet because you never know when you're gonna crash". They started saying this after they saw my younger son take the corner at the bottom of the hill at speed via a road sand moraine and totally spill - he was okay, just scraped up a bit, and I bought him a new helmet.
Excuse me but I don't believe
By Sky
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 4:57pm
Excuse me but I don't believe you have any place to make accusations such as the ones you have just presented. She may have not been wearing a helmet and she may have had an iPod in...but by no means are those grounds to speak on her the way you are because no one deserves to die. The facts have not been presented here, including how she passed. But regardless, I think we should all show some consideration and keep any sort of negative opinions to ourselves since, as mentioned above, family and friends of this woman are surely reading every comment. As a witness to this incident from before it even occurred, I want to extend my condolences to her family and friends and let them know that I am deeply, deeply sorry for their loss. If you're reading this, my thoughts are with you in this time of grief.
Ummm... not a negative comment
By anon
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:02pm
All he was really saying is that it's a shame, because her odds of surviving would've been a lot higher if she was wearing a helmet.
Frankly, I say kudos to him for his respectful comment, cuz I'm a whole lot less sympathetic over this whole thing.
With all due respect....
By Michael Kerpan
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:05pm
...and fully agreeing that people should be as polite and sensitive as possible, pedople here are examining how this sad event could have occurred -- in a situation where the official press has been missing in action. People are going to speculate -- it's one of the reasons this forum exists. (This is not to excuse any "deserve to die" sort of pontification).
Maybe when there's a new
By anon
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:18pm
Maybe when there's a new tragedy and people want to talk about issues, which might or might not be relevant to this particular tragedy, they should start a new story for the issues discussion.
Maybe that will help people keep facts and sensitivity straight.
Bullshit, Michael
By StopIt
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 6:23pm
People are "examining what occurred" and are "going to speculate?" Every commenter on this board who stood up to defend their right to play cub reporter for the day and make someone's tragedy their past-time as they wait for the clock to hit 5 p.m. is completely self-centered and catering to only the prurient interest.
You bring nothing to the discussion by speculating on events you didn't see or chatting up "witnesses" who couldn't even wait to wipe the blood off their hands before firing off a comment on this page. See something? Tell a cop. Be useful. Just making a hunch about a helmet, iPod, fixed-gear bike, single-gear bike? STFU. You're white noise and your hackish play for relevance just makes you look petty.
Want to turn this into your personal PSA for helmets, Mona Mour?! Take your safer-than-thou crap walking. IF the rider wasn't wearing a helmet, I'm sure everyone here has the basic intelligence necessary to draw a lesson from that person's death. We don't need you interjecting just because you haven't flapped your gums in a minute. Michael... Brett... Andrew: Fuck you too. It's your right to come on here and run your mouth as you so often do when bicycle issues arise, but when it's a story where the person dies it STOPS BEING ABOUT YOU. This isn't about what you want or what you think or what you want everyone else to think: This is about a family who lost a loved one, friends who lost a member of their circle, a driver who likely lost a bit of his or herself through no fault of their own and a rider who lost his/her life and will be -- for your purposes -- a white ghost bike at that intersection.
Speculating about this person's death, further aggrieving their loved ones through the bits of two-cent wisdom you so thoughtlessly and breathlessly belch out and second-guessing the rider's decisions are NOT why this comment field is here. Ideally, a comments field is supposed to advance the discussion, to bring the issues addressed to their next logical step and to share those thoughts AS A COMMUNITY. All I'm seeing today is a bunch of biddies who stepped out of the beauty shop just long enough to point and whisper at a dead body and hope it was wearing clean underwear before it breathed its last.
I thank Adam for his reportage, but I'm sickened by the rest of you who choose to play media games like "No Wicked Local" and "*We* Beat the Globe." I pray you never get the call about your husband, wife, son or daughter that someone out there is receiving today.
This. Place has been getting
By Anon²
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 8:41pm
This.
Place has been getting pretty smug lately.
-
By anon
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 8:43pm
this is the only sensible comment on this horrible, absolutely foul thread.
So...
By Kaz
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 1:03am
What would you say about the finger-waggers who have nothing better to do than shake their shame stick at all the "biddies"? We're commenting on the news. You're just commenting on the commenters. Talk about the self pleasure of prurient interests.
Your acrimonious sanctimony is duly noted.
Also, Adam wouldn't have had his reportage without Mike Juergens and I commenting on what we saw that afternoon. So...you're welcome.
Kaz, I love your posts
By JamaicaPlained
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 9:35am
But this one is wrongheadded. Many of the commenters here weren't "commenting on the news," they were speculating and adding their own editorial take on a woman who's A) Not a public figure B) Died as a result of this incident and C) Left an affected driver, family and group of friends in her wake. That's acting in the prurient interest, not admonishing them for showing so little respect.
"Adam wouldn't have had his reportage without Mike Juergens and I commenting on what we saw that afternoon."
While we appreciate your efforts, this kind of chest-thumping is in poor taste. File your story, go home, wake up, do it again. Pretend you've been there before. That's what a journalist -- professional or citizen -- is supposed to do. Their byline is on the story, but it's NOT ABOUT THEM.
But we didn't say "please"
By anon
Fri, 08/13/2010 - 10:33am
Nobody asked you for your Tweet, your "reporting," or your opinions, so quit acting all righteous about your efforts to make yourself a loud voice on the Web. And quit pretending that nobody would have covered this had you not taken to the Web so quickly. Also, quit pretending you're a reporter-- you're not.
As for Adam not having the story without you-- really? Are you really that arrogant and dumb at the same time? Other sites which Adam checks also put word of it up, so he would have found it and passed along the news with or without your "help."
The irony is so delicious
By Kaz
Fri, 08/13/2010 - 12:09pm
I love posts where people tell you that nobody asked for your opinion. Are you really that non-self-aware?
Also, there are three things that make news news: 1) finding a story, 2) getting the story right, and 3) immediacy. They don't call it olds, they call it news. Your nameless "other sites" posted about this incident on August 10th, a day after it happened, at the earliest. Adam was able to post about it on August 9th and people learned that there was information sooner, including the road closure. People have commented on UHub before that they come here first because the local news is quicker and the selection of stories is more interesting. We even had a place for eyewitnesses to come and give accounts because it was up on the 9th and they found their way here.
Try reading
By anon
Fri, 08/13/2010 - 12:18pm
You were getting all pouty that nobody thanked you-- that's what I was commenting on. "They don't call it olds"-- ha! Good one. It's sad that you didn't go into the news business-- chippy little know-it-all interns brighten any newsroom.
Couple of things:
No answer at all to the post regarding how Soxaholix and Get Your War On are very very similar? Nothing? Are you above even responding to that?
And re: Web creepiness, aren't you the one here who introduced the whole practice, at least on UH, of "Glenn Becking" people re: what happened/didn't happen in 1990? Apologies if you were not... but I think you were, or least you piled onto it, so:
Why won't Kaz answer questions about why Soxaholix rips off Get Your War On?
Last word
By Kaz
Fri, 08/13/2010 - 2:05pm
My self-congratulating comments on having posted the initial items were a sardonic and acerbic response to the anon "sickened" by my desire to see other news outlets pick up on the death of this bicyclist...but at the same time hypocritically willing to thank Adam for posting the news (due in part to my contribution to the community via Twitter). I wasn't actually looking for applause.
I'm not sure what your fixation with me is, oh-so-brave anon. If you want to talk about me or Soxaholix (which I have no control over), start a blog post here at UHub and I'll be sure to answer it. I'm no longer satisfying your craven trolling here in a thread about a recent bike accident just because you want to derail the conversation to make it about me.
"make it about me"
By anon
Fri, 08/13/2010 - 2:25pm
You're just so fascinatingly awful-- that's why. As to making the thread about you, that's a laugh-- you do your best to make every thread about you. As for you having "no control over" Soxaholix, then why do you link to? Aren't there sites for the collected works of Jayson Blair or Stephen Glass?
I would filter out comments
By HenryAlan
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:14pm
I would filter out comments like that. There is always going to be something in a situation that some will criticize. To focus blame on a specific thing doesn't do justice to what happened, and to extend the argument some are making here, we should just blame her for getting on a bike, because that must be a careless choice to make in Boston. I feel sorry for the people who are saying these things. They have no empathy. As for me, I'm going to get on my bike tomorrow morning like I always do, ride in to work, and try to remember how fragile life can be.
First of all, if you read the
By Mona Mour
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:26pm
First of all, if you read the comment, it's directed generally at all bikers who don't wear helmets or listen to iPods. There's no "deserves to dies" sentiment anywhere in it. If anything, I'm simply hoping that some good can come out of something so terrible ... that more people put on their helmets. I think her family and friends would be in support of that kind of legacy.
I'm sorry that it appears negative for me to say people should wear helmets. But it's just a fact. People should wear helmets. In 91% of all bicycle fatalities, the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet. I think this is as good a time as any to remind people of that.
This is a forum for comments, and I stand behind mine.
I think the posts that most bother people....
By Michael Kerpan
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 5:50pm
are Brett's and Andrew's -- not yours (which seemed somber and respectful -- at least to me).
And in...
By anon
Sat, 08/14/2010 - 3:16pm
And in 91% of those fatalities involving helmetless cyclists, how many of those involved motorists?
I wonder
By fibrowitch
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 8:51pm
The picture is not very clear but the bike color looks a bit like the woman who almost smashed into me a while back. Right around the same area (so to speak) and the behavior sounds the same. Running red lights, no helmet, not paying attention to what is going on around her.
My heart goes out to the poor woman who must now be blaming her self for the death of this young woman. A woman who would still be alive had she practiced safe cycling.
The picture is not very clear but....
By Michael Kerpan
Tue, 08/10/2010 - 11:05pm
Really, you should have stopped before the "but".
Why?
By fibrowitch
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:27am
Why do you feel I should have stopped with the "but" Because I wondered if maybe this senseless death could have been prevented? Because I put some of the blame for this accident on the rider?
It's pretty clear to me that
By anon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:37am
It's pretty clear to me that you're jumping the gun. You do not have the information to be commenting as you are. Which is irresponsible, not to mention hurtful.
Exactly
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 8:34am
The infrastructure in this area is bad enough - poorly aimed lights, etc. - that we don't know what degree of her behavior was involved yet.
We also know that you hate cyclists - oh you cloak it like the right wing cloaks its bigotry in soft language - but it is clear you just want all of us to go away so you won't be bothered to share the road with great sanctimonious pronouncements about how we should do this, that, and some other things regardless of what the laws say.
As I posted elsewhere on the
By JonT
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:35am
As I posted elsewhere on the thread, I think (based on my experience at this intersection) that we can rule out poorly-aimed lights as a factor.
I agree that at this point we don't know what the cause was. However, it is *possible* that the cyclist was simply inattentive. We've all seen cyclists blow through red lights without caution. Did that happen in this case? I don't know. But whether or not it did, we should all consider ourselves warned of the possible dire consequences of ignoring red lights, and I don't blame anyone for raising the possibility that that's what happened here.
Fibrowitch...you are out of
By Sky
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 9:14am
Fibrowitch...you are out of line. Senseless death? What do you know? Nothing. The facts of not been presented so I suggest you keep your inconsiderate assumptions to yourself...or at least off of a public blog. Have a heart.
Why?
By fibrowitch
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:27am
Why do you feel I should have stopped with the "but" Because I wondered if maybe this senseless death could have been prevented? Because I put some of the blame for this accident on the rider?
Let it go
By JamaicaPlained
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 9:39am
You're shouting over any message you hoped to send. Think about this situation for a second, consider what your role in it really is, and just walk away. Your helmet comment is noted, but nothing that a reader couldn't have gleaned from the facts presented.
She did not live in the area
By anon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 1:50am
She did not live in the area 'a while back' so different biker, same you.
One time
By The Beer Guy
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:49am
I was almost hit by a car in this area. Pulled out of a parking spot, no signal, not even a look back.
You mentioned that you are in this area, and that you drive. You should be more careful next time!!
See how easy it is?
You know, I can't be sure,
By HenryAlan
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:10pm
You know, I can't be sure, but I was almost hit by a car the other day. It was a different part of town, but definitely a car, probably the same guy.
Did the car have 4 wheels?
By The Beer Guy
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:14pm
If so, it probably is the same. Especially if the license plate either had a random set of alphanumerics, or a cutesy vanity word.
Me too!
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:20pm
I was proceeding through a green light when I was nearly run down by a maniac leaning on his horn as he plowed through a red light at high speed.
Except that arshole also nearly clipped the cop that was right behind me, and the cop decided to put her sirens and lights on and bang a right for some reason ... like, to hassle a perfect motorist that nearly plowed a bike that got in his way!
Cyclists should be more careful - NEVER head across an empty intersection with otherwise stopped traffic on a green light. You could get yourself killed getting in the way of a masshole!
Heh, that's too much
By HenryAlan
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 12:22pm
Heh, that's too much coincidence. What happened to me is that the car drove past me, then slammed into reverse to back into a driveway that happened to be next to my location. I swerved out of the way, then saw the cop that the driver had also not seen. The cop was perfectly positioned to see the whole thing. Flbrowitch, what kind of ticket did you get?
Update
By anon
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 1:49am
Some people need to be more sensitive. Shame on you. Think before you type.
She was a daughter, a friend, a coach, an athlete and an amazing women.
http://www.smith.edu/news/2009-10/pineda-216.php.
I have started a new blog for
By Sky
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:10am
I have started a new blog for this woman. For all who wish to comment positively and regretfully you may do so on that. This blog is getting to be extremely inappropriate and I think it should stop now. Look for my blog and feel free to send your condolences. Maybe family and friends will come across it and find a bit of peace...
What's the URL?
By adamg
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:21am
What's the URL?
UHub blog
By Kaz
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:24am
Small site. You've probably never heard of it.
I am new to UniversalHub. I
By Sky
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:39am
I am new to UniversalHub. I joined because it was the only place I could find anything on the accident yesterday morning. This is a great site, though, and hope to post more in the future.
Don't worry
By Kaz
Wed, 08/11/2010 - 10:52am
You posted your blog post exactly where it is intended. I was just razzing Adam a bit that it was on his own site when he asked you where you posted it.
Welcome to UHub.
Marlene was my sisters best
By SoTragic
Fri, 09/03/2010 - 8:41pm
Marlene was my sisters best friend. This is absolutely horrific. She was the sweetest most hard working individual I ever had the pleasure of meeting.
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