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Time for an Edward M. Kennedy Boulevard?
By adamg on Thu, 08/05/2010 - 12:37pm
The Dorchester Reporter alerts us that the group building the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate on Columbia Point is thinking about trying to shrink Boston's current collection of Mt. Vernon streets to honor the late senator by changing the name of the main street through the peninsula.
Don't worry, Mt. Vernon fans: Beacon Hill, Charlestown and West Roxbury would still represent.
Ed. question: If you're going to do that, wouldn't it make sense to call it just Kennedy Boulevard, given that the JFK Library is also on Columbia Point?
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Comments
Charlestown???
C-town has a Mt. Vernon as well, don't forget us....
Oh, Boston, you crazy old town
Thanks, amended the original post to include that. So we have four Mt. Vernon streets in four different neighborhoods, to go with all the Washington and LaGrange streets, and the intersection of Dorchester Avenue and Dorchester Street and, oh, gah, I think my head's going to explode.
My favorite confusing intersection is
The intersection of Tremont St and Tremont St by the Roxbury Crossing T station.
I once gave these directions:
"Go down Tremont street about 10 blocks, then make a right onto Tremont street, then make a left onto..."
Well, that four-way
Well, that four-way intersection at least has two other streets.
I prefer the corner of Batterymarch St. downtown. It's a T-intersection, and it's the same street in all directions.
Also, before they built International Place, High St. used to not only run where it does now, but also had a branch that ran around the other side of Ft. Hill Sq. (it was originally a road that went all around the fort on that site).
Time to stop
wasting money on tributes to dead politicians.
But I agree that, if you're going to pursue this silly and pointless action that benefits nobody, it would be better to call it Kennedy Boulevard.
yeah, a few road signs are
yeah, a few road signs are the worst of our budget woes.
Actually, the budget isn't the problem. Neither is our current tax rate. Our biggest problems come from 20 years of infrastructure and funding neglect by administrations that cut taxes, found programs that could bare immediate cuts to funding before the signs manifested, and told the population we could have our cake and eat it too.
Lucky for my generation, that bill is coming due at the worst time possible. Boomers with no savings, failing health, and an economy they left us in shambles. But hey, at least they got those evil taxes lowered and a ton of useless shit in their garage. That counts for something, right?
Not the worst of our budget woes
but still an unnecessary expenditure. And all those "insignificant expenses" eventually add up.
Plus, I think most people would agree that honoring a career politician who died of old age, as opposed to a solider or police officer who died in the line of duty, by changing street names and constructing elaborate shrines - excuse me - "libraries" - at public expense qualifies as a special interest program.
However, I might be willing to consider renaming the street as Kennedy Boulevard provided that, as a condition of that change, it is also agreed to finally remove the Route 128 designation south of Peabody, and severely fine any radio traffic reporter who continues to use that designation in their reports.
Stop calling it 128???!! NEvaaahhhh
We might as well rename Fenway Park to Yankee Stadium North! The original name was 128, and damn right Bostonians don't like change!
Never mind the fact that it's been part of
Interstate 95 for thirty-five years now. Times change and people adapt.
But I suppose you're one of those people who still buy their groceries at the First National. Or pay their telephone bill with a check made out to New England Telephone.
Nostalgia aside, there is not a single legitimate reason to retain the Route 128 designation south of Peabody. Even the GPS makers acknowledge that.
"Route 128" isn't just a highway
It also is shorthand for the whole Waltham-Burlington technology district, just as "Kendall Square" is for the area around MIT.
Also
Please do not deprive me of the enjoyment of telling people that to get to the South Shore Plaza, we go north on 128 South.
Sorry to burst your bubble Adam,
but the "Route 128" designation between Canton and Braintree was officially removed in 1989 and all the signs taken down. So the "South 128/North 93" quandry no longer exists (except in the minds of Boston traffic reporters, who seem to be firmly planted in the early 1970s when it comes to route designations).
The next time you're in the Canton area, look closely and you'll see a large sign that reads "END 128" at the southbound I-95/I-93 split, and a similar large sign on the ramp from I-93 southbound to I-95 northbound that reads "BEGIN 128".
Might want to talk to Google Maps, too
Because typing "Rte. 1 and Rte. 128, Dedham, MA" gives you this.
Also, zoom in on this Google Street View, from in front of Joe's American Bar and Grill:
View Larger Map
Last I recalled, Route 1 in Dedham is north of Canton.
Which is in the "I-95/128" overlap area.
For me, the term also
For me, the term also provides an unofficial demarcation between urban and less urban sections of metro Boston. It's like the wall around ancient cities with their suburban villages outside. I care not whether the state chooses to officially designate this stretch of highway as 128, because the many cultural connotations remain important.
So, by that logic, the traffic reporters should start
saying things like "the northbound Waltham to Burlington technology district is bumper to bumper". With respect, the fact that Route 128 is shorthand for an area that boomed in the 1970s and is now dead again (as least as far as high-tech) is not of much relevance to a driver trying to read maps or follow road signs.
A reality check here - The Canton to Boston section of Route 128 has been part of I-95 for thirty-five years. The exit numbers now reflect the I-95 designation, the green guide signs entering the highway now reflect the I-95 designation, and the mile markers now reflect the I-95 designation.
And, again with respect, regardless of whatever "justification" people may try to offer to the contrary, retaining the Route 128 designation only creates confusion among drivers without any legitimate or tangible benefits to others.
Over the years, many states have had similar issues with overlapping route designations that have confused drivers. They generally solve those issues by discontinuing, re-routing, or re-designating highways to eliminate those problems. And you know what, the world doesn't suddenly stop spinning on its axis just because a local driver is now, to give a hypothetical example, entering I-395 instead of US 202.
But I guess this ongoing "how dare we remove 128" nonsense is just another example of how Massachusetts needlessly obsesss over very trivial changes.
That's right, never mind.
It's 128. Just like the Garden is, The Garden, not the Fleet Center or the Toronto Dominion Bank North Garden.
I havent' even lived in the area long enough to be one of the stereotypical people you describe. I don't know what first national is /was (sounds like a bank).
And not only do I not have a phone bill anymore (company-paid cell, screw the land line), I also do not write checks (new thing out there called Electronic Banking--you should get unstuck in your old ways and check it out). so who's against all change now again?
Your statement about the phone bill
exactly proves my point about most people easily accepting change.
And, based on my hypothetical example of writing a check, you claim I don't do electronic banking because "I'm stuck in my ways", yet you are defending the continued use of an outdated route designation (Route 128) that provides no legitimate or tangible benefit to anyone (sorry, but "it's always been Route 128" doesn't even come close to qualifying), but only serves to confuse drivers. With respect, perhaps I'm not the one here unwilling to accept change.
BTW - First National (later called Finast) was an established New England supermarket chain that disappeared in the late 1970s/early 1980s.
Tangible benefit
Route 95 goes all the way from Maine to Florida. Route 128 is a more precise term when it refers to a section of Route 95. That is a legitimate and tangible benefit.
With respect, that argument does not improve navigation
for the average highway driver. Rather, that just sounds to me like another flimsy "justification" for keeping a now irrelevant state route number on the same section of highway that has had an established Interstate designation for thirty-five years.
And I reiterate, this dual posting does nothing more than create needless confusion for drivers. As I stated, the other 49 states seem to have no problem discontinuing route numbers when they encounter similar issues.
But I guess people around here won't truly understand the futility of keeping the dual designations until the day somebody dies in a car crash because the emergency services were dispatched to "Route 128 Exit 16" in Beverly instead of "Route 128 (I-95) Exit 16" in Westwood.
And that's my last commentary on the subject.
"49 states seem to have no problem..."
Oh, everyone else does it. I see. When I was a kid, I had an earlier curfew than everyone else. "Everyone else gets to stay out until 1:00,", I'd whine to my parents. My dad came back with, "you're not 'everyone else' ". One night I had to excuse myself from a party to be home on time. I was PO'ed. About an hour after I left, the party got louder, neighbors called cops, some kids got taken to the police station, parents found out. But I was safe at home under my draconian curfew, so I didn't get in trouble. Dad was right!
What's my point in this? Nothing.
Oh yeah, We in Massachusetts do things differently, and most of us our proud of it. As my dad said, 'the hell with everyone else'.
It was a back-atcha
You wrongly accused me of being a native stuck in my ways, with the check writing/phone thing, so I chucked it back at you. Thanks for the First Nat definition, never hoid of it.
I'm sorry too, because "it's always been Route 128" most certainly qualifies as a benefit. As was mentioned earlier, most of it is an identifiable section of I-95. People feel more comfortable saying "128" than "The stretch of I-95 that loops around Boston from Peabody Southward". Sure people are set in their ways, but in many cases, Rte 128 included. it's for a good, logical, convenient reason other than just being stubborn. Just like people have an easier time saying "The Garden" than TD Bank North Garden" as I pointed out earlier, and you failed to acknowledge. Too late now i guess, seeing as you've declared your final comments on this topic. Twice.
Oh, and I do still call Whole Foods Market "Bread & Circus" . In this case, for no good reason.
I still hear ads for businesses
I still hear ads for businesses on "Rte. 1 in Dedham" or "Rte. 1 in W. Roxbury".
Yer damned right we don't like change. That's why the home of the Bruins and the Celtics will always be the "Shawmut Center" to me.
And do we have to have it called the "Yankee Division Highway"? It's as though they're rubbing our noses in it.
GW Bush Highway
At least they waited till he was dead. In Texas Bush Sr. got a highway named after him just after he lost reelection.
Bentsen State Park
Arguably even worse, Bentsen-RGV State Park in Mission, TX, was so named while Lloyd, Jr., was still in the US Senate. In fact it must have been dedicated long before his eventual resignation to join the Clinton cabinet because I remember camping there when I was a Boy Scout in the late-70s/early-80s, and it was always known by that name.
Although I suppose it tells us something about the characters of the two men and their supporters that Bush got a toll road through one of the wealthiest patches of real estate in the country while the other got a birdwatching park in the poorest county in the nation (Hidalgo).
But why pick on Texas when we have the entire state of
West VirginiaRobert Byrd.Hey! Brighton!
Don't forget the one-way Mt. Vernon Street in Brighton!
Mt Vernon doesn't lead to a
Mt Vernon doesn't lead to a bridge, so I see no problem.
Wow, shocker!
This thread was up 10 hours before a Chappaquiddick joke surfaced!
Surfaced
Huh huh.
Fed Interstate VS. State Route
Rt 93 & 95 are Federal designations.
Rt 3, 128, 24, etc...are State Highway designations and can overlap with each other and Federal Highways.
I still call it the expressway not 93, I save that for the cratered road north of the city
Overlap of state numbered routes with
Federal or Interstate routes may be technically legal, but is strongly discouraged by FHWA unless the need for the overlap can be legitimately justified. The basic reason is this: the extra route numbers are additional information the driver needs to process.
Plus, when route numbers overlap, it's usually for short distances (like a "shared" bridge over a river where it wasn't feasible or cost-effective to provide separate bridges for both routes) and the routes will join/split at both ends of the overlap. The short section of State Route 24 on Interstate 195 in Fall River is a good example of an appropriate route overlap.
The present Route 128 designation between Canton and Peabody doesn't satisfy any of the accepted requirements to justify overlapping routes - rather - it is nothing more than an unnecessary redundancy.
And that is my truly final comment on this issue.
additional information to process
Yeah, because "I'm at exit 60 off 128, no wait--they changed it, it's exit 64, no, wait--I forgot, they changed it again, it's 2A heading South on 93 North" doesn't add any confusing information when giving and receiving directions.
As I stated,
the I-95 designation was added to Route 128 between Canton and Peabody thrity-five years ago. And the old Route 128 exit numbers, which never followed any sort of logical standard to begin with, were changed to follow the I-95 sequence twenty-five years ago.
If the locals that are old enough to have been driving before these changes were made haven't yet figured this out (as in your "I'm at Exit 60 off of 128" example), I'd be much more concerned about the fact they are on the road at all.
And the fact that professional traffic reporters, who should really know better, continue to perpetuate this nonsense, especially for a road (I-93 between Canton and Braintree) that had the Route 128 designation offically removed from it twenty-one years ago, is completely inexcusable.
Beat that horse!
Not to throw more wood on the fire.... but 95 was supposed to blast through the middle of the city over the Tobin Bridge and blitz through Rumney Marsh and Lynn to the point where 128 and 95 currently separate ways. It didn't get its way and so they just popped the signs up on 128. When I hear traffic reporters mention problems on 95 I immediately assume that it's on the way to Rhode Island (the stretch from Peabody to Newburyport is pretty uneventful for the most part). Actually they'll usually preface the report with "95 north of the city" or "95 south of the city" and then reference an exit or town. When they say "128" I think of the curving arc of vehicular constipation that encircles our fair city like an umbilical cord around the neck of an oxygen-deprived new born. Then I thank Vishnu that I no longer have to commute in that mess.
Honestly, I don't care what they call it and the world has so many instances of logical dissonance and moral decay that how the idiot in the traffic copter refers to a highway really doesn't bother me.
Poor choice of words on my part
Sorry
EMK not on Mt Vernon
looking at the photo in the Reporter: it does not show Mt Vernon St being extended to the EMK or JFK. All I see to the north (top of photo) is another parking lot. Mt Vernon would/should come south next to that old castle like pump house and connect with the street to the left of the EMK
that said, when are they going to complete the Harborwalk on Columbia Point? How bout taking $1M of EMK money and make something that local people will actually use!