The Whole Foods / Symphony is at least in walking distance to some core clientele and has a very steady business for a small store. This Whole Foods / South End will actually be further away from target South End customers than Symphony would be, from streets west of Dartmouth intersecting Shawmut, Tremont, and Columbus.... and WF will have to deal with the Pine Street Inn crowd just around the corner on East Berkeley. I don't' see it, and presume they got in for near-zero rents.

Who else can walk there? Chinatown? Southie's West Broadway crowd walking under the 93 overpass? Maybe some Tufts Medical Center employees can pop over on lunch, although it's not a pretty stroll.

This will be a car-driven location. A better bet to draw higher-end clients would be chef-driven restaurants that are now flocking towards the waterfront.

It's a changing area

By adamg on Wed, 07/25/2012 - 8:25pm.

Whole Foods isn't the only thing going into that property - the developer's talking about something like 300 apartments. Plus, have you walked around there recently? There are a lot of people with disposable income down there now.

More than 300

By SteveM on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:09pm.

471 Apartments.

Most Whole Foods in Boston have parking as an essential part. JP Whole Foods has a lot, plus ample street parking. Symphony, I believe, is below a parking garage. Charles River Plaza has a lot. Even the one near Central Sq. has a good sized lot. My hunch is this one will have validated parking just like CRP.

For the life of me

By anon on Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:14pm.

Somebody please explain what the big deal with Whole Paycheck is. It's massively over rated and over priced. I'd much rather Trader Joes.

Do you have numbers to back

By Saul on Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:11pm.

Do you have numbers to back up your claims?

Or do you just think that saying "Whole Paycheck" makes you sound cool?

Are you serious?!

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:50am.

Whole Foods is considerably more expensive than Trader Joes or any other large grocery chain.

There's a reason, Saul, why it's got the nick-name Whole Paycheck.

Actually, it's not

By Nancy on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:18am.

This is a year old but Whole Foods is not considerably more expensive than any other grocery chain.

http://www.good.is/post/actually-whole-foods-isn-t...

I didn't look up Trader Joe's because the quality is so bad there it's not worth googling about it, IMHO.

Nancy! Do you wirk for WF?

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:51am.

Seriously, YES! WF is absolutely more expensive than other comparable grocery chains. That survey is bogus.

No. I wirk for a bank.

By Nancy on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:25pm.

no message. nothing to see here

So let's see the numbers from

By Saul on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:32pm.

So let's see the numbers from your own surveys.

hole foods is definitely more

By CaT on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 5:45pm.

hole foods is definitely more expensive than market basket. and the quality at market basket is better.
some examples of products they both have, SAME brand:
king arthur bread flour; 5 dollars at WF, 4 at MB
buttermilk: 1.80 at WF, 1.30 at MB
feta: 3.99 at WF, 2.99 at MB

even if they have sales, like mangoes a few weeks back, they are still more expensive than MB (89 at WF, 79 at MB). or blueberries; 2 for 5 at WF, 2 for 4 at MB. moreover; at MB you can always buy one and still get the discount, i dont think this is the case at WF.
i happily wait in long lines at market basket; their fruits and vegetables are of much better quality and always cheaper! (and if you go just before closing there is also no line!)

My grocery bill freaks me out

By Sally on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:26am.

No matter where I shop. But honestly...comparing TJ's and WF is kind of ridiculous. The quality at TJs is just OK. They don't have fresh fish or terrific meat and the produce is completely meh and over packaged. I love them for some snarky foods but unless you live on frozen dinners, cheap wine and trail mix, I can't see how you could do all of your shopping there.

Sally!

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:49am.

MANY people can't afford to spend big $ on grub from organically grown free trade lesbian owned and operated farms and boutique businesses. Sorry for the lesbian crack. no offense to the average lesbian, and it's not a snark directed at you. But I think you get my point.

Whatever.

By Sally on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:45pm.

I can't afford a lot of things, like a car, fancy vacations or a home with decent closet space. But we all have our priorities and yeah, buying healthy food, occasionally from, er...lesbians and so on, is one of mine. I think the WF debate has probably been beaten to death on this very site but again--the prices are totally comparable to Stop and Shop, etc. Personally I'd rather buy one organic chicken once a week than eat Perdue chicken every night but again, that's my thang.

Not true. All grocery stores

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:46pm.

Not true. All grocery stores located in cities are expensive. Have you been to Stop & Shop lately? More expensive than WF on staple foods.

I don't reach my conclusions

By Saul on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:33pm.

I don't reach my conclusions based on nicknames.

The big deal

By Kaz on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:43am.

Well, for my money, I pay the same there for most of the staples as anywhere else, but I don't have to deal with assholes like you while I do it.

So there's that.

That's an un-necessarily nasty response

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:52am.

we're only talking about grocery stores. Lighten up.

let the market wars begin!

By John-W on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:32am.

It's Market Fuckin Basket or nothin, asshole! And don't you forget it or I'll fuck you up!
(Or take you to MB in Chelsea on a Saturday at lunchtime, right after social security checks come out. now THAT'll fuck you up.)

LOL!!!

By cybah on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:19pm.

Yes!!! Make sure you check out behind someone who has WIC checks and a cart full of non-qualifying products!!! You will be ready to kill... especially if they have to go get the correct item off the shelf!!!

WF is over-priced, but the selection / quality is hard to beat

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:00pm.

unless you're buying directly from a local farmer. At least WF sells fresh produce from local farms whereas TJ rarely sells food grown in the U.S., even if it's in season. Over the years TJ has stopped carrying name brand foods, as an example Stonyfield Farm yogurt which I eat a lot of, in lieu of their own generic brand which is often poor quality.
If a decent Market Basket was going in that spot instead of a WF, I'd be ecstatic. However, I'd still be buying plenty of things at WF to supplement weekly trips to MB.

I don't believe it.

By anon on Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:52pm.

Whole Foods and then Trader Joe's were rumored to be moving into Harrison Ave. in the abandoned building near Gaslight (where the South End Open Market used to be). But these were only rumors, although the scuttlebutt used to be that these were done deeds.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were also just a rumor - to stir up a little attention for a development which is basically in a no-man's land that's not the South End, that's not Chinatown, that's not really anywhere. No one in the true South End (Berkeley St. and points West) is going to walk there, and no one wants to go though the hassle of underground parking to just pick up a few things. Same for the people of Chinatown.

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

There's a False South End now?

By Ron Newman on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:18am.

Or, just because part of it has adopted the trendy name 'SoWa', you want to excommunicate it from the South End?

I think we've got some people with vested financial interests

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:56am.

like real estate agents, shilling and trolling on here.

And of course the usual trustafarians and yuppies who're clueless about how the other half live.

Says the anonymous troll...

By Sally on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:47am.

Yeah, you're totally right because surely the South End needs some shills to drive up real estate prices. Because then maybe some yuppies will move in and turn all of these shabby old rooming houses into condos and open some fancy restaurants and turn the old industrial buildings into galleries and lofts...oh, wait a minute. Sorry--I looked at my calendar wrong. For a minute I thought it was 1983. Sorry about that.

Rumor?

By Sally on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:34am.

It's in the BBJ and now the Herald. Menino seems to be on board. It hardly sounds like a rumor. And I disagree with your definition of the "true" South End and your notion of what is or isn't a no-man's-land or how far people will walk or drive to shop or eat. You could have made the same argument about the WF on Cambridge st. not being "in" Beacon Hill and it seems to be thriving.

Sally, I never said gentrification of the S.E. was a bad thing

By anon on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:45am.

and yes, folks with vested financial interests are interested in keeping the status quo or increasing it. For real estate industry image and maintaining an image is very important. It's to a large degree a bull sh*ting industry, like car dealers.

And of course those who've bought often expensive real estate either to live in and / or for investment-speculation, they also are very interested in maintaining the 'correct' image.

Erm...

By Sally on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:48pm.

I agree, but I don't think that everyone posting here is a real estate agent or someone with vested interests. I mean--there's no controversy here. I don't think there will be a big "Occupy Harrison Avenue!" movement. Even that guy who had that very funny blog called thesouthendisover has thrown in the towel.

Please stop complaining

By JohnCostello on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:57am.

1. It is a grocery store. It is a place where humans acquire for the exchange of currency necessary nutrition. It is not a gate to hell. No one is forced at gunpoint to shop there.

2. Some people in the city have cars.

3. There already is a grocery store which is auto, transit, and pedestrian oriented on the other side of the former Teradyne building from the Herald.

4. As for Manifest Destiny, the South End was originally conceived of as a place for Boston's middle and middle upper class to migrate to and live. It missed the market by 140 years or so. Market forces are returning to roost.

5. 20 years ago this winter I watched BPD shoot a homeless guy to death in front of Quinzanni's while stuck in traffic at 5:00 in the afternoon. Pardon the pun, but on the whole, this is better.

Clapping

By SteveM on Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:13pm.

Would also add to above "rumor" thread that as of now there has been a press release by the developer, mayor's office and local paper coverage. Signed lease. Not a rumor.

50K sq-ft is very big for an urban or suburban supermarket.

South End set to get Whole Foods

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