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West Roxbury says South Boston can suck it
By adamg on Sat, 02/04/2012 - 7:22pm
Look what you can buy at Super Flash T-Shirts on Centre Street in West Roxbury.
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Comments
Protestant Stronghold?
Orange in Ireland (perhaps elsewhere) is generally used to represent Protestant, green Catholic. Seems odd to have WR in orange.
W Roxbury indefensible
In the coming superpocalypse, West Roxbury's wide parkways will be a great way for the reconstituted Soviet tank army to roll right in. And Millennium Park is obviously a landing pad for the black helicopters. It's basically the Poland of Boston.
I suggest going to Hull, which has a narrow neck of land you can defend at least.
Is there.....
.....any way to view this in a light that is not racist?
Dorchester
The use of North vs South Dorchester is considered divisive and is frowned upon these days. Whoever designed this T-Shirt is either pretty old and not up on things or new in town and just plain clueless.
Bet he/she used a BRA map
Because only the BRA defines all of Stony Brook Reservation and the golf course (the sorta nose-like thing sticking into Hyde Park) as part of Roslindale.
lives in Roslindale?
I pretty sure the owners live round the corner from me. That would put us firmly inside Roslindale's extent. I've been led to believe the owners are well known in these parts, and are not some crank from 50 years ago.
What exactly is this T-shirt saying? What is it proposing WR be a stronghold against? Please be blunt.
You're right. The North-South
You're right. The North-South Dorchester reference confirms that whoever made this POS t-shirt is also a POS bigot. Longtime Bostonians know the code. The bigger disgrace is that this city's supposedly enlightened Mayor's office still pushes this division too through their neighborhood services office, the BRA and public health.
Dorchester is really large
so why is it bad to divide it into 'North' and 'South' sections?
For the same reason...
it's bad to keep your head in the sand for any length of time. Must every demographic disparity be spelled out?
Because they're code
If they'd called them "Black Dorchester" and "White Dorchester," they'd at least be a little more honest about the rationale for making them up.
Parts of Dorchester
It's always been my impression that the black-white dividing line in Dorchester has been between east and west, not between north and south. Savin Hill is north, and is mostly white. Codman Square is south, and is mostly not white.
Yep, and Codman Square has
Yep, and Codman Square has long been considered "North Dorchester" by city hall. For the obvious reason: its a racist terminology.
Dorchester really isn't that
Dorchester really isn't that big. Back in 1690, when its southern boundary was present-day Stoughton, OK fine, north-south made sense. Now its just a tired carry-over from Jim Crow days. The BRA created the names in the 1960s to make it clear where blacks and whites then lived. Purely racial.
It's also bullshit because it has no basis in geography, despite what the map suggests. The way city government has used it over the years- "South Dorchester" has always and continues to includ Savin Hill (up near South Boston), because there's plenty white people there. But Codman Square (which on the map is in the south) was always considered "North" Dorchester. You explain that one to me.
No-So Dorchester has always been about making white folks feel better about the part they lived in— and that's the reason that city government continues it to this day.
North and South Dorchester - BRA's definitions and maps
On this page I found these documents that describe and map the BRA's definitions of North Dorchester and South Dorchester:
North Dorchester: 2000 Census of Population and Housing
South Dorchester: 2000 Census of Population and Housing
They pretty clearly show Savin Hill as part of North, and Codman Square as part of South.
The population tables in these documents actually show a white plurality in North, a black plurality in South. (No race has a majority in either section.)
(I linked to the 2000 documents because the 2010 versions don't have the same detailed maps)
Yes. I grant you that this
Yes. I grant you that this BRA map does show Savin Hill in "north" Dorchester and Codman in "south".
Some departments have been gradually fixing their maps or doing away with the distinction altogether under pressure from neighborhood folks over many years. Others have not.
One holdout is the mayor's office itself, which has one coordinator assigned to "North Dorchester-Mattapan", a second to the mysterious "Mid Dorchester" and a third to just "Dorchester".
Dorchester would be impossible for one coordinator to manage, that's true. But ask Walter Apperwhite which meetings and civic groups he covers as "north Dorchester-Mattapan" coordinator. It's definitely not Savin Hill or Uphams Corner. He covers Codman Square and Franklin Field because to Mayor Menino's office, those places are "North" Dorchester, i.e. black folk territory.
Then there's the police districts, also stuck in a time warp. The B-3 district covers "Mattapan-North Dorchester"— even though Codman, Franklin Field, etc. is clearly in the "south Dorchester" area according to the BRA map you referenced. Why would any part of Dorchester adjacent to Mattapan be termed "North"? Because it's racial shorthand, not geographic-based.
There's also the mayor's Neighborhood Response Team for "Mattapan-North Dorchester"— which similarly covers Codman Square as this press release points out. It doesn't cover Savin Hill, Uphams, point north, etc.
Finally, it's indeed true that the racial make-up of these two sub-neighborhoods are no longer significantly different. That's a good reason to drop them altogether. The city has perfectly good political divisions based on the council districts. The mayor's office, etc. can use those to assign staff, etc. Their decision to fall-back on racial code is a bad one.
Hey now...
....no squabbling kids! Maybe at one point in time the north-south divide actually made sense in terms of equating N-S geography with racial make-up. Obviously it doesn't anymore (and with the hordes of gentrification lapping at the shores and washing over sections of Dot it will have even less validity in the future), so that's why we're getting city agencies tying themselves in knots trying to explain why they cover one section versus another without that nice'n'easy mason-dixon line split. Of course it's racial.
But as far as city representatives/liaisons go, I would think you'd want someone who relates better to the community that they represent. The real issue is the quality of services and types of attitudes the city (and the POLICE) brings to each of these geographic areas.
As far as the BRA's lame-o maps of the n'hoods, it's not like residents' perceptions of THEIR n'hoods really matter to them. It's the developers' perception of the n'hoods that matter, so those maps are just bs for the most part. I mean Dorchester has probably got more sub-n'hoods than Boston has major n'hoods. And many of those probably correspond better to the racial and ethnic make-up of the populations. But they'd make a lousy t-shirt. Almost as bad as this one.
Coloring fail
Unless they wanted to imply that West Rox is Northern Ireland, that is an unfortunate color choice.
I will say that having lived in both neighborhoods and traveled extensively in Ireland, Westie reminds me more of the emerald isle in that strangers there are more likely to smile and ask how you're doing than call you yuppie scum and spit at your feet.
The worst t-shirt I've ever seen, on so many levels.
First, it's racist.
Second, the idiot who made this t-shirt doesn't understand ANYTHING about Ireland if he thinks orange represents an Irish stronghold.
Third, just epic fail.
How dumb are you?
Why are you assuming any ethnic/Irish commentary in this t shirt. I don't see how anyone can divine what the hell the t shirt means.
I know you like to get excited about the evil Irish influence in Boston, but unhand your pud for a second before you work yourself into a filthy lather over nothing.
Uhm... I'm of Irish descent.
I know what this shirt means; It's like porn, I know it when I see it. I've only lived in and around Boston for the vast majority of my 38 years. And I'll do whatever I'd like to do with my pud thank you. It's my pud.
Pud
I'd just like to thank you both for refamiliarizing my brain with a word I haven't thought about in about 20 years.
Everyone is assuming Irish
Everyone is assuming Irish commentary because the shirt is green, orange, and white.
More fail
No boundary line between Roxbury and Roslindale?
North End is labelled 'Central' ?
Well, there isn't a border between Rozzie and Roxbury
That was the first thing my Rozzie rat of a kidlet noticed and got upset about when we saw the shirts tonight (on our way to the new burrito/taco place) - even she knows JP and Mattapan sit between the two R-hoods.
And the designer couldn't be
And the designer couldn't be bothered to actually draw the borders of Allston and Brighton. As a Brighton resident who fled Allston a few years ago, this annoys me. Allston and Brighton are not the same.
Allston/Brighton border?
I used to live near Oak Square, and know west is Brighton, east is Allston, but where is the official (or unofficial) dividing line?
it's a ZIP code boundary
Allston was established as a post office way back when, so anything 02134 is Allston, 02135 is Brighton.
The dividing line...
...is approximately (more/less) along Everett Street. One side Allston, the other Brighton proper.
That's enough of that
As a lifelong resident, sorry, there is no reason to divide them. Brighton was the town, Allston is just a neighborhood of Brighton. Suck on it.
West Roxbury was a town, Roslindale just a neighborhood of it
but we still distinguish between the two today.
A neighborhood of a neighborhood of a town
So, that makes Roslindale the neighborhood of a neighborhood of the original town.
(I've held off commenting as long as I was constitutionally able; but, I'm just weak.)
Jonas Prang
Oh Lord, please save us from West Roxie triumphalism!
West Roxbury was 'just' the Spring Street neighborhood of Roxbury for most of its history. It was only its own town for all of 22 years before being annexed to Boston (Roxbury, from which it separated, had only itself incorporated as a city about a decade before that break, and became part of Boston a few years before WRox).
At the time, the area we call Roslindale was known as the South Street Crossing, or the South Crossings. It lay within the borders of West Roxbury, but was economically and culturally more closely linked with Boston and Roxbury. It was given its modern name just a couple years before Boston annexation.
...erp?
Last stronghold of people too stupid to even make racist t-shirts that even vaguely make sense?
Personally, I think Eastie would be easy to defend. One of the bridges to Chelsea is out as it is and we can just light up the tanks over by Revere to keep the big hair at bay which leaves one road out to Winthrop and the tunnels to watch. Or two if by sea...
i don't get the racist
i don't get the racist charges.... back bay and southie are still part of boston right? They hold on every bit as strong as West Roxbury in regards to race.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982024006/
me either
My first thought was: anti-environmentalism?
Then: Boehner supporters?
The orange-green divide makes sense, as so many others have pointed out, if it's Derry or Belfast (or maybe the T), but ... racist? Maybe we need to know more about West Roxbury than Pazzo, Boomerangs and Blanchard's to hear the dog whistles. Otherwise ... shirt's just kinda dumb.
'Tis the biggest mixup that you have ever seen...
My father he was orange, my mother she was green!
That's racist!
That's racist!
An encouraging word from West Roxbury
Michael Loconto, president of the West Roxbury Main Street board tweets:
Why does West Rox have a Main
Why does West Rox have a Main Street?
Aye Begosh Begorah
Fiddle dee dee,
poor bloke's map is all mixed up like.
didn't know the protestants took over westie
Tis a shame it is.
i'll need a pint to help turn it over in me mind.
wrong!
what they are implying is that the rest of Boston is being overrun by Yuppies and Hipsters, has nothing to do about Catholics and Protestants, or Russians neither.
Oh, that's much better
Thanks for the clarification. So the shirt should read "Boston's last stronghold of knuckle-dragging townies packed into a faux suburb than nobody wants to move to."
Or "Westies: While people pick other Boston neighborhoods, West Roxbury's stuck with us."
Why the South Boston digs and
Why the South Boston digs and hate all the time?
The same people
who whine about everything Southie. "I overpaid for my stupid condo so I can bitch about everything Southie!"
I don't know what a T-shirt about West Roxbury has anything to do with about South Boston.
Go after the realtors who sucked you assholes into buying into the Southie High Life. You are never going to recoup your money unless you perpetuate the scam, get over it.
"whine about everything"
Yes, those same people who don't like it when Sully just fills in a hydrant hole with a random patch of asphalt. The folks who don't think nightly stabbing add character to the place. The ones who say "no, thank you" when you hand them an open bag of your best bennies and oxies, like they're so superior.
Just hole up in Murphy's Law with your butterfly knife, Paulie. I'll be renovating your aunt's place on East 6th and throwing your place holder into the salvage yard you call a front lawn.
What????
What????
I guess that explains the
"neighborhood school" agitating in West Roxbury. Let's resegregate!
No secession, though
All the Boston city workers would have to move out if West Roxbury split off.
Stupid is as Stupid does, or wears
The tee shirt is kind of like a removable neck tattoo, proclaiming to all who see it that the wearer is irretrievably ignorant.
Racist? It's not even smart enough to be racist. Nothing like proclaiming your Irish Catholic roots by painting the rest of the town green, and decking yourself out in protestant Orange!
Stay clued in, Westie boyos. (Boyos, that's a Jewish word for scholars. Don't look it up, just take my word for it.)
Where can I get one of these?
I mean, who wouldn't want a shirt that makes West Roxbury look like an overfed tick latched onto Boston's hindquarters?
As someone else noted: amazingly dumb on so many levels.
Why, Centre Street in West Roxbury
Right next to Himalayan Bistro, across from the Roche Center.
Ah, West Rox.
A small fact is that more managers, supervisors, etc. working for the City of Boston live there than anywhere else.
Where.....
...do you get that from?
Demographics
I have no link for you at the moment, but I have read this in numerous credible publications in the past. West Rox. is their commuter suburb of choice.
I don't get the obsession.
Boston Irish guys (way different than actual Irish people) would be cute if they could shut up about how Irish they are all the time.
yes, and...
There's nothing better than watching the expression on some well-heeled Milanese tourist's face when they hear some guido from Revere or Eastie spout off about how Italian they are.
Give it a generation or two and it'll be the same for every ethnic group that immigrates here I suppose.
not racist because...
Irish is an ethnicity not a race. Furthermore, the t-shirt designer can't be all that die-hard Irish since, as others have noted, they would have made West Roxbury green.
By incorrectly and lightly tossing around the term racism, you're watering down its impact and doing a disservice to those who actually suffer racism.
OK, after 45 posts,
could someone just explain what the shirt is intended to mean?
I'm pretty sure...
...it's something to do with Ron Paul. Or buzzard pus.
UH and you, perfect together
You know, it's funny to me because I was just in SuperFlash on Saturday and saw this shirt on my way into the store and thought, "What in the hell?" I'm always a little hesitant to support these guys as their, let's say interests, lie in a different place than mine, but for screen printing of sports jerseys and the like, they're the best local game in town.
I have to admit that this person of Italian heritage living in a former Greek enclave does not understand this shirt, but when I saw it, I know I didn't like the way it made me feel.
If someone can really explain this, I'm all ears.
Here's one hockey-lovin
Here's one hockey-lovin Irishman from Boston who'll make it a point to never support this store or anyone associated with it after seeing this post.
You need shorts, screen printing, etc, try College Hype in Dorchester. They have plenty of Irish gear in there— but its not us v. them nonsense like this. They do the All Roads Leave shirts for Dot, Southie, WR, Roxbury, etc. Great neighborhood pride stuff without the ugliness. Screw you SuperFlash.
Better Option
If you are looking for a better option than Super Flash in Westie try out ParkwayBoston & Apparel. Owner is a life long West Roxbury resident and they have great prices. They have been around for over a year and do great work.
Cool— as long as they traffic
Cool— as long as they traffic in this sort of stuff, I'll give them a shot.
Thank you!
PBDA - I appreciate the recommendation! I always go to SuperFlash reluctantly and am glad to know of another place. I do have a sports team (ie the NHRD part of my name) who always need jerseys printed and such.
Will definitely check them out!
There's also Busy Bee in Rozzy
I don't know anything about them, really, other than that they are in the building that used to house my favorite wings joint. But they are another local silk screen joint.