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Ambulances and protests
By adamg on Fri, 01/16/2015 - 8:09am
The Herald talks to the daughter of the injured guy in the ambulance that had to be diverted by yesterday's I-93 protest shutdown . She's livid.
Norfolk County DA Michael Morrissey, whose office will prosecute the 11 people arrested in Milton yesterday (including Angela Davis, but, no, not that Angela Davis), says:
The disregard for the safety and welfare of innocent citizens that this action manifests is shocking.
But, hold on a second. Chris Faraone reminds us this isn't the first time I-93 was blocked in both directions for a long period of time. But apparently it's OK as long as it's Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz making a movie.
Rebecca Hains, a professor at Salem State University, marvels at some people's sudden concern about other people in ambulances, when they normally couldn't care less when ambulances get diverted because our roads suck or the Sox game just got out:
One local mom, Nicole Aliberti, agrees. "I find it disingenuous that people keep complaining about ambulances not being able to get to Boston hospitals due to the protests," Aliberti told me. "I once experienced being in the back of an ambulance that was transporting my critically ill baby in stopped traffic due to a Red Sox game. No one would move out of the way and we had to find another route to the hospital."
She asks: "Why is there outrage about the Black Lives Matter protest, when there is no outrage about this disruption of hospital traffic that happens many times a year?"
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Comments
Call me crazy
But I think there's a difference between predetermined stoppage and an unannounced stoppage. Bias much?
You hit it on the nose. And you are not crazy.
Normal traffic back up due to a scheduled Red Sox (and perhaps no car could move out of the ambulance's way due to the congestion?) game is not the same as some fools deciding to make a statement by willingly and knowingly blocking I-93 during rush hour.
your bias is the only difference
its ok to block traffic for the redsox you believe the redsox are valid. you believe this protest is not valid so it is unacceptable to block traffic.
Of course, the redsox are awesome but what could be a bigger example of anarchy than people too selfish to pull over ambulance because of a game?
It is dishonest for people to say that they would care more about the cause if the protest was less inconvenient.
The Hypocrisy of these anarchists is amazing.
Watch it here:http://instagram.com/p/x5MzmwuT17/?modal=true&utm_source=partner&utm_med...
A lot of people are missing the point of yesterday
These actions were a declaration of war on people like myself; tubby white person who doesn't live in the urban core but commutes into it for work. It was as if the song Mr. Clean by The Jam became kinetic.
Their manifesto sort of cloaked the language but they basically said that suburbanites are trespassers in the City Of Boston and all the perceived other urban areas such as Somerville and Cambridge which make up the urban inner ring.
The actions yesterday weren't about Black Lives Matter. This was Trotskyite actions by Occupy Boston. They want to mess with the economic health of my nuclear family and others to support their anarchist agenda.
For every action there is reaction. I now fully support the means of oppression against these people. I sense we are heading towards a Seattle 1999 situation in the city, except there will be pushback. This is still Boston after all. It's my city too.
The ironic thing
"These actions were a declaration of war on people like myself; tubby white person who doesn't live in the urban core but commutes into it for work."
The ironic thing (and oh how hipsters love irony), is that most, if not all, of the protesters are also "tubby white people", trust fund kids going to the Museum of Fine Arts school, etc, and I seriously doubt many of them are native Bostonians. They were well insulated against the cold with their expensive clothing. Perhaps, while they were at it, they should have showed solidarity with the homeless by dressing in the inadequate clothing that the homeless often have and then exposing themselves to the weather. The protesters need to raise their consciousness and see the bigger picture. Dreadlocks and beards do not a hipster make.
You are right on many levels
One of the protesters had an address of Colburne Crescent in Brookline, the street of the $5,600 per month 4 bed rental and the $1,750,000 houses. The same person also supports Chelsea FC, which is like supporting Marlborough Street and Beacon Street if they had a Premier League team.
The FB profiles you can get into on the arrested show London, Norwich, VT (Dartmouth Faculty Heavy), Dallas, and Hanson as hometowns. Hanson of all places. However, If I grew up on that street in Hanson I'd be a wee pissed off at society as well. Its Scratchie City meets Jet Ski on Blocks.
Nevertheless, it takes a lot of balls to pontificate that somehow when you are living up on a hill in Brookline you are somehow being oppressed by me.
You've made some very good points that're well taken, anon, but
I would not go around attacking people who have trust funds, etc. Not everybody with trust funds, etc., participated in that crap that went on yesterday.
The irony is that on the
The irony is that on the website where the manifesto was posted they are soliciting donations for the bail fund, as if these kids aren't loaded already.
Je Suis John Costello!
Commisioner Evans confirms this was an Occupy/anarchist protest
http://www.wcvb.com/news/boston-police-commr-evans-protestors-from-occup...
Meaning?
Meaning?
Oh, wait ANARCHISTS ... like the ones who blew up the Molasses tank?
First they shoot McKinley
Now this
Well
according to Evans, "This isn't a normal group that's been operating in the city. This was again an Occupy anarchist movement who was hell-bent on causing problems and they used it in the name of Black Lives Matter", so it would appear to mean their goal is to cause general disruption and to make headlines
not really.
Evans knows that Occupy doesn't exist anymore. If he doesn't, he's a real moron and has no business being in charge of a police force.
Are you soft?
Evans made his name during the Occupy protests. Lots of the protesters spoke with him personally. They knew him by name and him theirs. He now recognizes some of the same protesters.
What's the problem?
"Occupy doesn't exist anymore"
But the idiots from occupy do! They've been involved in EVERY hot topic protest since!
I think
I'll take his word and opinion over yours
Again, I disagree with you here, tape.
Frankly, I think that BPD Commissioner Evans was absolutely spot on with his points.
Occupy Boston?
hasn't existed for 3 years.
Did it ever really exist?
....more than a day or so? Didn't a news crew with an infrared detector prove that those tents at dewey square were mostly empty?
Yes, it existed
Which I say as somebody who spent some time down there while it did (no, I didn't sleep in a tent there).
Trotskyite? Trotting out the Red Scare?
When did the Cold War with the god hating Roosians resume?
I finally read the manifesto, too
They are stretching at some of their points. They note some people who died at the hands of the police in the past 15 years- one died when the cops returned fire, another shot while lunging at the cops with a knife after slitting her 2 kids throats, another shot after pointing the gun just used to kill someone at the cops down in the theater district. I didn't read up on them all, but I did find one fatality where the cops could be faulted- the passenger in a car shot at by the police after the driver struck another officer. Surprisingly, no mention of Victoria Snelgrove or David Woodman, so apparently white lives don't matter.
As the link below notes, these morons are taking away from an important issue.
Link to manifesto
I've seen a couple of commenters here say they read a manifesto, but it isn't (directly, at least) linked from Adam's news item. Can you provide a link to this document?Edited to add: Never mind, found it here (linked from Adam's previous report)
Adam
Do you really agree with the actions of these protestors? The narrative from all your stories written on them seems to justify the behavior or just flat out making excuses for them.
If you do, that's fine, just curious.
Everyone is wrong
It's possible to disagree with the protesters AND the people over reacting to the bad traffic.
I don't entirely agree with you here, BostonDog.
Blocking an interstate highway, where there's a speed limit of 55 miles per hour and/or more is endangering people's lives, no matter how anybody looks at it.
I don't know
On the one hand, yes, they're bringing attention to an issue that I think exists (not in Boston, fortunately, but there's a lot of country past 128) and that many people are ignoring.
On the other hand, they, or maybe it's their supporters, come across as a bunch of whiny gits who don't really grasp the concept of "civil disobedience" and who should stop playing revolutionaries if they're unwilling to accept the consequences that come with that. Reread (or read for the first time) Letter from Birmingham Jail and think about what civil disobedience means, really means and that part of that involves the potential for arrest and that part of that means at least attempting a dialog with people such as, oh, Marty Walsh, and not just randomly chaining yourself into concrete barrels and then complaining about the "global Panopticon" arresting the people who returned the truck you used.
So, now you know where I'm coming from. And that having been said, you betcha there's anonymous crap I'm just going to use the delete checkbox for: You want to channel your inner Howie Carr and crack about a protester's weight, you want to express the wish that next time a truck run these people over, you want to just verbally spit in the face of people who post here? There are plenty of places where you can do that. This, however, is not one of them.
Sure, there's lots of country outside 128, I-93, etc.
Why don't the protestors go out to the bedroom communities outside the state and interstate highways to protest, then?
sounds great
I'd truly love it if they would screw things up in Wilmington, given the disproportionate rate of youth soccer players from there who are suspended for racial slurs.
I see where you're coming from, Adam, but I don't totally
agree with you.
People who've engaged in Civil Disobedience, including MLK Junior, due to a genuine belief in the cause(s) that they espouse, have realized that there are often consequences (i. e. jail, fines, etc., ) and have accepted the consequences of their lawbreaking willingly.
These particular protestors, especially those of yesterday who insisted on blocking I-93, are a totally different breed, and not in a positive way, either. They seem to not realize, or don't want to realize these consequences, and whine and cry when they get arrested. Well, I've got no sympathy for the protestors who blocked I-93, because, imho, they don't deserve it. If they get arrest records that follow them for the rest of their lives, and either lose their scholarships, etc., as a result, too bad for them.
Did you read what I read?
Because you basically just agreed with me on the consequences of civil disobedience.
Local rescue crews....
know to use Hunnington Ave to Longwood during Red Sox games. It's not like the park opened yesterday.
Life, Death, and Traffic
If the difference between life and death is traffic on the southeast expressway we're all doomed. As the traffic hackers pointed out yesterday, the traffic was bad but it wasn't the worst nor are levels this bad all that uncommon.
I think it's a failed protest but I do support the movement. When the police kill someone without just cause it barely makes the news. But if there is some bad not-entirely-unexpected traffic on I-93 which hurt no one (apart from time), THAT's a reason to be outraged?
Maybe its me but during sox
Maybe its me but during sox gridlock there is eventually a way for ambulances to break through as people pull to the side even on storrow but when you have every lane blocked there is no chance for anyone to pull over and make a hole.
Sigh
I don't want to go down this rabbit hole, no one was killed without just cause.
I'll concede there is an argument to be made on Eric Garner's behalf, but if you or I were placed in that same choke hold we'd still be alive (unless your 300 lbs and have chronic asthma...)
Read the news
I agree the Ferguson case is a bad example. But one doesn't need to look far to find examples of police using excessive force. BPD has been in the news as of late for using beanbag guns to subdue people that in other cities would have likely been shot, which is good. If the nationwide protests result in police opting for non-lethal methods of control first then the protests would have achieved something.
I do agree the blocking of I-93 was a stupid stunt. I just don't see it as being worth the outrage.
Nice Victim Blaming
So if you're fat or have a medical condition you deserve to die?
Garner communicated to the cops that he couldn't breathe. He died and the cops stood around like assholes. I mean honestly, don't cops know CPR?
Aaaa
He suffered cardiac arrest in the ambulance with the EMTs not on the street with the cops. #FactsMatter
Also if you're twelve
You should definitely be left to die in front of your family instead of having first aid performed.
Did the laws change?
Because last I was aware, the death penalty could only be issued by a jury of one's peers after a trial, not by a police officer in the heat of the moment.
I was also unaware that the consequences for petty theft and similar crimes was now immediate death.
"Just cause"
You keep using that word.
Let them sit there.
Let me relay a suggestion on what to do next time they try this: Bring in heavy equipment. Use it to pick up the barrels with the smelly protestors attached. Deposit them on the side of the road and let them sit there. They got themselves into the barrels, they can get themselves out. It then becomes their(protestors) problem, not the commuter's. If they are still there come springtime, they can become a tourist attraction.
What makes you think they are
What makes you think they are "smelly"?
Oh, right, it's your contempt. Guess what, you were contemptuous before the protest, you are not their target. Dude, it's not about *you*.
That they reportedly wore
That they reportedly wore diapers so they could contentedly crap their pants is enough for me to presume that they are indeed smelly.
Depends ... on who you ask
I'm sure the cops were glad that they didn't have to handle people with uncontained biology.
Outdated 1960s cliches do not apply
Although I do not agree with the protesters, I equally dislike this default mechanism of using outdated 1960s terms like "hippies" and "smelly protesters" every time something like this happens? Howie Carr used the term "hippies" for the protesters three or four times in his column today. Honestly, aren't the old people he is intentionally trying to get a visceral, lowest common denominator reaction from by pejoratively using this term long dead? They were old THEN, let alone now. The same thing happened during the Occupy fiasco. The occupiers were referred to as "hippies", as if they suddenly emerged intact in a time machine from 1969. The protesters yesterday are no more "hippies" than Howie Carr is, and, diapers notwithstanding, we have no reason to assume they are "smelly", especially given their privileged status in life.
You know
You know, I used to like Chris Faraone... but ever since I started following him on twitter, I've come to realize what a total toolbag he really is. He'll snap on to any movement as long as it suits him or is a news story for him to write about. Talk about someone who an opportunist.
Secondly, its not like a movie set just all of a sudden on Thursday morning during rush hour decided to shoot a movie without any warning. A movie set has been approved by the state months in advance...
And as far as the mom's comment. Unimportant. Same reasoning as I stated above. RedSox game is going to yield traffic. Any idiot who has lived in the city longer than 2 seconds during a sox game knows this. Again people know about sox games in advance , shame on that ambulance driver for not knowing this and not going a different way.
I don't know what kind of
I don't know what kind of utopia you live in where rush hour traffic yields to ambulances hand over fist, but most time I've seen it happen people were very reluctant to move. Maybe because there was nowhere to move due to our highly-congested roadways.
So I'll say something controversial: as far as the commentary from the daughter of the injured guy in the ambulance - unimportant. She is being used by the media and the cops because there's someone to blame, someone the state wants to paint in a very negative light. How many times do we hear about ambulances diverted due to traffic jams caused by roadwork?
I am not going to debate whether what these guys did is stupid or not, but I'll say this: it takes balls (and a little crazy) to get off the couch and do what they did, stand up for their beliefs. But us, let's keep posting useless commentary on the internet.
Nonsense
As someone who most likely spends way too much time on our local roadways, I always see people moving aside and stopping for emergency vehicles. The ones who don't are usually the same assholes who you have to beep at at a green light to get them to stop looking at their fucking phones.
I smell BullShit again
You are aware that just about every single person arrested yesterday had a previous record? Did ya know that? Oh yeah and let me tell you where they were arrested. I'll give you one hint.. it was across the street from South Station about 3 years ago.
I hate to break it to folks but these folks were not apart of the #blacklivesmatter movement. Last night the news had several black leaders who said they knew nothing about this, and wouldn't support this kind of protest regardless. So who's really calling the shots for this new movement, it certainly not the people who would most to gain from a positive outcome from protests.
These folks were anarchists who are opportunists. I bet they could give a rats ass about black people really. All they cared was furthering their agenda by brushing it it under "blacklivesmatter". All they did was take the next big movement and attach them to it.
And in the end all they did was drain what little support was left for this movement by doing something real stupid. The *last* thing you want to do when having a movement is make the general public hate you.
I was at a couple of the intial protests last month. The vibe I gathered from those vs what happened yesterday is far different than it was initally. I knew the minute I heard about the blockage, I knew these were not the same people from the original rallys but a new group of people just trying to start trouble 'because they can'.
Sad to say but the supporters of the blacklivesmatter are falling for this.... hook, line, and sinker. They have failed to see that their movement has been hijacked now by a bunch of rich trustriafarian white people with a 'mission' that is unlike the purpose of the original movement.
I dunno
I've seen cars not move for ambulances when they could in Sox traffic.
Well said
You know, I write a lot of things here and on the interthingie but...
if I had written that, I'd never write another comment ever again.
Chris Faraone is the end result of too much commercial weed.
nah
He's a product of waaaay too much LSD
If you really want a laugh
check out Faraone's Wiki entry, most of which was written by his partner in mediocrity,Dan McCarthy. Of particular note was this little entry:
Multiple awards? Looks like two mentions at an awards ceremony. They must have written this entry on one of the rare nights they could actually afford good weed.
I laughed
a long time ago at this. Honestly says a lot when you have a wiki page about yourself and you've done very little to earn it.
Of COURSE it would be a
Of COURSE it would be a college professor to fire the first countershot.
Much like murder, it comes down to intent. You know when games are and what the traffic is, this was unplanned, aware to no one, purposely kept secret and the intent was to cause trouble. This is not in any way comparable to normal levels of traffic caused by events.
Overturned Truck
So you should check your Sox schedule before having a stroke if you live around Kenmore?
So what about things like overturned trucks and other big accidents that unexpectedly block the highways? Certainly emergency vehicles have needed to take alternate routes in these circumstances.
It's not like there aren't other roads in this area. This would be a more important story if they blocked the bridge to Nahant.
Actually yes
Many years ago I worked part time at a night club on Lansdowne Street. I *always* kept tabs on sox games due to parking issues. Most people I know who do live in the Fenway do keep track of home games because of this very reason.
Red Sox traffic.
Traffic in the Longwood Medical area is 3x worse during any given weekday. Let's now complain that all these hospitals are too close in one section of the city. (Which they are)
Traffic during Red Sox games really isn't that bad except for the closed streets around the park. There isn't enough parking close to the stadium (like there is in foxboro) to make it a huge traffic concern.
but Pete
It is pretty bad when a game gets out.. :) You cannot deny that.
I've been there 100s of times....
But in terms of cars, I don't think it's as bad as a traffic problem as Brookline Ave and Francis St. are on a 10am on a spring Friday morning. People get out of the way for ambulances, but cars sometimes can't. Also, Boylston St. Is wide enough for two lanes of cars in each direction to make a middle lane if a cruiser or ambulance wanted to get through.
I could see an emergency vehicle getting stuck on its way to the park? But there are already several ambulances and firetrucks there during game days anyway.
So you should check your Sox
No, but your ambulance driver probably does.
The massive traffic jam caused by the idiots who
who insisted on purposely blocking I-93 to dramatize their point and their cause are not the normal traffic tie-ups that're caused by a stalled car/flat tire, or construction, or any other emergency. These people deliberately chose to go out and disrupt things for the sake of being disruptive and destructive, and they don't deserve any sympathy or support. They may not represent the "Black Lives Matter" Movement as a whole, but they've sure done a hell of a job of getting ordinary, innocent people screwed over, unnecessarily.
I see a real blow-back coming as a consequence of this crap, and it ain't going to be pretty.
Context
I do agree with her:
Even as I think the protesters were ineffectual morons that only were there to stroke their own egos and did something to hurt what is an important issue that needs to be talked about. You don't do what they did to bring about social or policy change.
To accuse those who talk
To accuse those who talk about ambulances of racism without any sort of factual language is pure alarmist intellectual dishonesty and completely shameful to come from a person in a teaching position.
I am appalled that someone in such a position can not see the difference between being frustrated and angry at the methods the protestors use and hatred of someone for their skin colour. Of course, this is the new "white silence" era of racism, where if you aren't out there on the highway with them you may as well be holding the noose.
It's not about "accusing
It's not about "accusing people of racism" as much as it is that noticing what people choose to emphasize can be illuminating. Bottom line: racism, both overt and implicit is a *huge* problem in the US. Ambulances being blocked by protesters most certainly is not. When people get it wrong one wonders why.
The professor clearly states
The professor clearly states that the ambulances argument is more often than not a "cover for racism."
She also states "read between the lines" which says nothing at all to defend her argument.
Well,
This:
Even as I think the protesters were ineffectual morons that only were there to stroke their own egos and did something to hurt what is an important issue that needs to be talked about. You don't do what they did to bring about social or policy change.
is something that I strongly agree with, anon, but I strenuously disagree with the notion that concern about the ability of ambulances and other emergency vehicles to get through and reach the scene of a life-or-death matter on the double, or to get the victim of a life-or-death illness or injury to the hospital on the double, is a cover-up for racism. It's a legitimate concern that seriously needs to be addressed.
Time really is of the essence, especially in the case of a life-threatening illness or injury. Every second of every minute counts and even a miniscule amount of delay in transporting such a patient to the hospital or coming to the scene to give him/her advanced care prior to transporting such a person to the hospital can be extremely dangerous. These kinds of things occur in other demonstrations, not just ones revolving around this particular issue.
I would like to see
I would like to see #BlackLivesMatter protest a hip hop show. Sure, it ruins a show but it's not like someone died.
Societal and institutional
Societal and institutional racism? Difficult, squishy, nuanced, not a lot of meat in UH comments.
Traffic/ambulances/Red Sox games? Hypotheticals? (she's "livid" but how is her dad?) *This* is the place.
I think Adam's journalism is *brilliant*. I am addicted to the, as a whole, much less brilliant comments, but cannot figure out why.
Help me.
she should be livid
...that they sent him ten extra mile to Boston and not to the much closer Providence. Much easier to blame protesters than question self anointed "heroes"on their routinely bad decisions.
Easton is about 27 miles from
Easton is about 27 miles from both Boston and Providence.
I agree
Change won't happen bc people, specifically white people, do not have to face the reality that racism and systemic oppression is real- bc it doesn't affect them.
Inconvenience is a real pain but more painful is racism and state protected/sanctioned murder.
Having issue with ambulances not making it through horrendous morning commutes on a good day- et off the blogs/boston Herald comment sections/ bar stool rash rag and organize for better trauma centers located throughout the state. Traveling 50 min to a trauma center is a serious concern we should all have. The reality now is that Ambulances are well aware of the issues traffic presents. It's their job.
Let's refocus on the issue of racism, state sanctioned murder and how black lives are lawfully disposed of, shall we?
Inconvenience is a real pain
Yes, exactly. Those of you appalled by the protest? Agree or disagree but don't be baffled, *this* is what Black Lives Matter is about.
Nobody's arguing that institutional racism is a huge problem,
as is police brutality, especially in poor and/or non-white communities, but it's necessary to draw a line somewhere, imho. Having said that, I really believe that the blocking of I-93, which is an interstate highway with extremely fast-moving traffic on both sides of it really should be totally off-limits and disallowed, because the blocking off of such a highway, when it's unplanned in advance, like yesterday's protests, really does endanger people, both motorists and protestors alike.
So where do you draw the line?
You just said there's a major problem. Where's the line in dealing with it?
It seems to me, Adam, that you, SwirlyGrrl and a whole host of
It seems to me, Adam, that you, SwirlyGrrl, and a whole host of other posters here on this board advocate the "do what you want when you want" and the "if it feels good, do it" attitudes that were not only incredibly prevalent back in the late-1960's/early-1970's, but these kinds of attitudes were all too often taken to some real extremes, which backfired rather horrendously, resulting in more right-wing leaders getting and keeping the upper hand here in the United States.
It's rather obvious to me that this kind of extremism that often occurred in various movements for change has begun to re-emerge here.
It seems to me you're wrong
This isn't some Summer of Love hippie-dippy crap, and sorry, I'm not going to blame the Weather Underground for Ted Cruz.
Being constantly afraid and outraged
.. while ignoring factual evidence that refutes your worldview is a mark of a "right winger", if you are going to stereotype.
Upset?
Maybe she should talk to the families of people who have had loved ones killed when they should have been incarcerated. As for some of the other comments, why do I get the feeling that unless it's the Tea Party or open carry protest, you're against a protest? Sure, argue with me that they blocked traffic, etc, but be honest, if they were standing in the middle of Boston Common, you'd still be calling them smelly hippies who should get a job.
Was anyone arrested in Medford?
The reports yesterday morning were of two demonstrations, one in Milton and the other in Medford. Were the Medford protesters removed without arrests?
eighteen people
Eighteen people were arrested - but they weren't chained to a half ton of concrete, each.
Medford arrests
Names here. Their linked-hands-in-a-tube technique proved rather easier to defeat and they were removed from the highway pretty quickly.
Medford arrests
Names here. Their linked-hands-in-a-tube technique proved rather easier to defeat and they were removed from the highway pretty quickly.
Medford arrests
Names here. Their linked-hands-in-a-tube technique proved rather easier to defeat and they were removed from the highway pretty quickly.
Ambulances are diverted ALL THE TIME
So, when the last person makes it into the ER causing the hospital to be at capacity and diverts ambulances away, does that person or the 40 people ahead of them get the blame for causing an ER to close?
Snowy conditions lead to a bad accident, do we charge them with the death of everyone at home who couldn't make it to the first hospital of choice?
I hope nobody has a heart attack in Southie on Saint Patrick's Day or anywhere west of the city on Marathon Monday.
I don't remember hearing about everyone calling for the union to be held responsible for untold deaths in 2007 when American Medical Response said it was going to strike ( http://billerica.wickedlocal.com/article/20070730/NEWS/307309943 ) leaving dozens of towns without ambulance coverage.
In the aftermath of the Marathon bombing or the anniversary bomb scare or absolutely any other time someone has forced police to close roads due to crime, nobody ever says "well, did anyone check to see if ambulances had to go around that mess so we can charge them with the deaths if they happened on the way to the hospital because they were kept from their first choice"?
What I want to know
I checked the drive times between Easton and the level 1 trauma in Providence, and also the original destination in Boston.
Even at 10pm last night, it was twenty minutes MORE into Boston - at a time when little traffic was expected.
I'm wondering why the heck Easton is sending trauma cases to Boston at all? Of course, nobody is asking that question. If it is a state boundary issue, why is that allowed to compromise care?
Warp speed
You can only average 150 mph if you drive NE due to the jet stream.
More important than the ambulance that couldn't get by.....
Milton had to send ambulances and firetrucks to the protest area. If they were needed somewhere else in Milton, there would have been a delay. That's a problem.
No, that's reality
If someone's space heater starts a fire and all the fire and ambulance are needed for that call, we don't condemn them for the delays they caused in responses elsewhere in town.
If instead it's an arsonist, we *still* don't try to lay blame at their feet for all the what-ifs of the response taking away staff from the rest of the coverage area.
When the arc welders lit the Back Bay house on fire, people's first concerns weren't "we should hang them for every emergency that had a delay or all the ambulances that couldn't get to Mass General".
We have emergency personnel to handle emergent situations like civil disobedience and blocking the highway with a protest and building fires and mass casualty events and so on. We have contingencies for when they stuff starts getting out of hand. At some point, if enough goes wrong at once (and we have plenty of understanding on how often that's likely to occur), then we reach our capacity. But all those other things that happened that caused us to reach that capacity don't share any collective blame for the person left without help.
Come on Kaz.
You used three examples of unintentional reckless or negligent behaviors (2 of them non criminal) an yes we do and should condemn them for those behaviors if they result in a diversion of emergency resources. An arsonist who burns something down should face more heat (no pun intended) than the protestors who broke the law and blocked a highway.
And Boston has more resources than Milton, so one or two ambulances or firetrucks aren't going to matter. Thankfully the state police were there so police resources in Milton also weren't wasted.
And part of these protests is to get police attention, and to divert attention (resources) to their cause.
If someone calls in a false
If someone calls in a false alarm, we do blame them.
The protest is much more similar to a false alarm than it is to a space heater fire.
More important that ambulance dispatch is rational
If ambulances are sent to the nearest trauma unit IN THE SAME STATE instead of the nearest trauma unit, that is a public policy problem that predates this event, and persists despite this event, and is a problem at any time of the day or night.
What they are trying to do here is amp up the supposed damage of a political action. What they really have is a faulty policy decision.
It could be a result
of Prov being out of his "network".
Easton ambulance on the Jamaicway
About 6:45 p.m., I pulled over to the side while heading inbound for an ambulance shortly before Huntington Ave. It was a red Easton ambulance.
If it were me
if it were me and I was a trauma case, I hope to god they'd take me to Boston and not Providence.
Pretty sure diversion works differently now
A few years ago there was a rule put in place that stopped the practice of hospitals entering diversion because they had a rapid influx of patients. I think it had to do with better using surge capacity, although don't quote me on that, I don't know the exact specifics.
Now a hospital essentially has to declare an internal emergency in order for diversion to occur, which is what happened to BMC when protesters blocked the roads nearby.
thank you
this has made my blood stop boiling from the comments above.
So ambulances are diverted all the time?
That makes it okay for people who are stupidly blocking traffic, especially on an interstate highway with extremely fast-moving traffic on it?
We don't see eye to eye on this, Kaz--that's all.
Adam...if you're listening in, the same goes for you, too.
Yes, ambulances are diverted all the time
For a variety of reasons.
Extremely fast moving traffic?
Not this road at this time.
Someone posted some information yesterday that typical speed on this route is around 16mph at that time.
Traffic inbound from the North is usually creep-and-crawl from about 7am and can back up past 95 in Woburn.
How about some Federal charges there Mr DA....
FEDERAL LAW FORBIDS INTERFERENCE WITH INTERSTATE COMMERCE BY THREATS
1. 18 USC - 1951 - Interference with commerce by threats or violence
(a)Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
Did you read what you copied?
It must be "by robbery, extortion, or physical violence"...none of which was involved.
Sorry but
Stepping into a highway with traffic can be considered physical violence
Yes
In the same way my keyboard can be considered ice cream.
so if they caused
a 50 car pile up that wouldn't be violent enough for you?
This state doesn't even jail drunk drivers
Why is it super specially different that people were actually politically active?
True....
Can't argue with that.
When it happens, let's talk
If they formed Voltron and blew up the highway, that would probably be pretty violent too.
It seems to me, Kaz, that
You're engaging in a mound of hypocrisy if you think that blocking I-93, which has a speed limit of 55 miles per hour or more, and risking causing not only a diverging of emergency vehicles, but a real possibility of causing a 50 or more car crash that could get people killed or badly hurt.
I just don't agree with you on this, Kaz. That's all.
How was your commute yesterday?
Do tell us how you were personally inconvenienced by this.
Also explain why it makes sense to send someone into a known daily traffic jam when the services they need are actually closer in the other direction?
Doesn't apply -- at least, not that paragraph
The protest didn't involve robbery, extortion, physical violence, or property damage.
Reading comprehension is cool and fun.
You should try it sometime.
One problem
The Norfolk County DA does not prosecute federal law. That would be the U.S. Attorney's Office for Massachusetts.
Any other issues I will leave to the others.
There were indeed threats of physical violence, see end of video
Great video by a commuter who decided to turn the
tablescameras on the protesters and their green hat "legal" team. Turns out they didn't like it very much, especially "Prince," the only black guy on their team with his own expensive camera.Kudos to the videographer and to WRKO's Jeff Kuhner and his staff who found "Noah" one of the protest leaders living in a $1.5 million Jamaica Plain mansion with millionaire parents. Note, in speaking with a State Police commissioned officer involved in the situation, nearly all arrested had an arrest history from Occupy Boston. Essentially, professional protesters, insert cause du jour ____________. Have any of the spoon-fed media asked Sen. Elizabeth Warren if she still supports what was done yesterday?
Idiotic
Do you even know what a Legal Observer is? He's requested to make sure everything that happens is documented so the cops can't say something happened that didn't (or vice versa). Your video consists of harassment against the Legal Observers. Classy.
Also, the "violence" you're talking about was on a street corner outside of a Dunks, not a part of any action earlier that day which is what's being discussed by RichM in attempting to apply some random federal statute to the protesters.
You're losing reality, O-FISH-L...come back to the light.
Re: Idiotic
Kaz, keep your eyes on the frame of the picture starting about 0:51 when it becomes quite clear. The Dunkin Donuts is at the site of the protest. Later in the day? This was a fresh and continuing event. Place it before a federal Grand Jury. When there's even a smidgen of evidence, "you can indict a ham sandwich" as they say.
As for "harassment" of the Legal Observers, how is questioning and answering harassment? Elsewhere it is known as the Socratic method. As for the outraged passerby who uses profanity, I don't condone it but have seen victims say and do worse. I sympathize with the swearing man who has apparently lost a days pay or portion thereof.
Still not getting it
A "Legal Observer" (did you bother reading their hats, eagle eye?) is a lawyer asked to make sure nothing illegal occurs and document it when it does. They're a disinterested third-party. The cameraman wants to blame them for the protest, but they're just there to make sure the legal system doesn't take shortcuts. You may not like the protesters, they may be guilty of many crimes in doing what they did, but they have rights and the LOs are there to keep track if their rights are broached.
Whether they even sympathize with the protest isn't even established in the video. Not that you've ever needed proof of anything to indict people yourself.
Kaz those were just hats
The people wearing them were not lawyers, they just happened to read up on what to wear in chapter 3 of "protesting for dummies".
Even the ACLU doesn't use lawyers for their neutral observers all the time.
7 News?
A 7 News microphone went in and out of this video several times, but I can't imagine their newspeople taunting and insulting their interview subjects this way. What was the station's role in producing this video?
Please find someone to explain the meaning of "interstate"
It doesn't mean what you think it means.
How to deal with E-vehicles
On a related subject--
How to pull over for emergency vehicles--
The general rule for traffic is to move to the right.
I've been in a few of these going up Jamaicaway into the Longwood Medical Area. The drivers go to the left, and have told me that traffic needs to pull to the right. (Prior to that, I had no idea on what to do; I just did my best to get out of their way in one way or another. I don't think I was alone in that way of thinking.)
hypocrisy doesn't look good on you, Greater Boston.
heck of a lot of people acting super concerned about an ambulance who probably don't make a regular point of pulling over for ambulances on a normal day.
Do you know us all?
Do you?
Heck, when I am walking and an ambulance needs to get somewhere, I occasionally run blockage to make sure the cars that cannot see it don't accidentally get in its way.
Trust me, the are automobile people who hate cyclists here. There are automobile people who hate SUVs here. There are people here, myself included, that feel that police officers sometimes turn on their lights to get through red lights. I feel confident to speak for all the drivers here by noting that almost all of us would make room for an ambulance with its lights on.
But Where?
Surely you've seen situations where there is absolutely no place for cars to go when an ambulance is trying to get though. People try to move but the road is only so big and if traffic is that thick there still isn't room for the ambulance to get by.
Until ambulances can fly they'll keep getting stuck in thick traffic just like everyone else. They might be able to move slowly but it's not like they can fly though even if people are attempting to move. (You see this commonly in midtown NYC.)
The original point was that
Those who oppose the protests are the same ilk that would not yield for an ambulance. Yes, there are times when you can't do anything, but I'm willing to be most drivers feel horrible about being in that situation.
I will say this, I have seen on the highway people use ambulances to block for them to get wherever they are going quicker. It boils my blood.
Hold on a minute, Waquiot!
This:
imho, really is a little bit of a stretch. Not everybody who opposes the tactics that the protestors have been resorting to is the type of person who refuses to yield for an ambulance.
But tape did
And were I on a better device, I'd basically cut and paste the post at the beginning of this subthread. Since I can't, please scroll a little bit above.
In short, tape is an idiot who claimed that those who were concerned with ambulances on Thursday are the same kind of people who wouldn't yield to one. I disagree.
the lede of that Herald piece
the lede of that Herald piece makes it sound like the actual cause of the man's injuries was the fact that his ambulance was diverted, instead of the car accident he was in that caused him to be in an ambulance.
"A beloved 83-year-old West Bridgewater grandfather has been left with spinal fractures and broken ribs after his ambulance had to be diverted around yesterday’s protest on Interstate 93"
that's horrible writing, even for that joke of a publication.
I propose we ban all private
I propose we ban all private vehicle traffic from the highway to ensure that our emergency vehicles will never be delayed. Those without an emergency can take the T.
"A beloved 83-year-old West
"A beloved 83-year-old West Bridgewater grandfather has been left with spinal fractures and broken ribs after his ambulance had to be diverted around yesterday’s protest on Interstate 93"
the delay caused those injuries?
Easy to be snarky if it's not
Easy to be snarky if it's not your loved one.
If it were my loved one
1. I would wonder what conditions led to the accident in the first place (including "should this person be driving" and "what were the road conditions").
2. I would seriously question the decision to send someone to Boston in the heart of morning rush hour when Providence is closer, if time were really of the essence.
But thats the thing Swirly,
But thats the thing Swirly, it wasn't you. It was someone else who was possibly put in harms way.
We don't know the details of the gentleman, his family or the conditions - nor do we need to. All we know and what we can comment on is what happened.
Your points have no bearing on what happened.
Policy fail is still a policy fail
The problem wasn't that it was protesters blocking the road this time. Your insistence otherwise is a strawman.
The problem is that if the patient truly needed a level 1 trauma center as soon as possible, they shouldn't have sent an ambulance to Boston, period. That's as true at 10pm on a weekday evening as it is at 8am with mounting traffic. Providence is closer. Providence is faster.
Kaz is right - this situation and this woman are being used for agitprop.
level I trauma center
Swrlygrl,
perhaps the elderly gentleman expressed a desire to go to MGH? I am not an emergengy responder so I am not certain what the policies are, but I imagine there is probably some room for the patient's input in the situation described. MGH have a fairly good reputation after all. Perhaps he already is a patient there? Not uncommon in Easton. Easier for the family members to get to MGH than Providence for the duration of the hospitalization. Insurance networks may be another factor. I am not saying that all of this flashed through his mind at that time, but perhaps there is a reason why that pattern has been established?
J
The one time I needed an
The one time I needed an ambulance the responders asked me where I wanted to. Granted, I live in Boston so the differences in time/distance weren't enough to matter. But after being hospitalized 3 times at one area hospital I NEVER want to go back there. I told them they could decide as long as it wasn't ______. I also wanted a hospital that would be relatively easy for family to drive to/park at. As much as I've been hospitalized, I'm so grateful to be in Boston. And if anything ever happened to family in RI Is hope they would go to Boston too. When you have world-class doctors not that much farther away, it seems like a reasonable choice.
I-93, and the immediate Boston area, generally,
already has severe congestion problems, even under normal circumstances as it is. Blocking an interstate highway, catching commuters off-guard, and risking people's limb and lives, including the lives of the people involve in such a stupid activity really does add to an already-existing, severe problem, in a huge way.
If the protest leaders had any common sense, they would've gone and talked with politicians to get some feedback from them, instead of going all hog-wild, thinking they can block an interstate or whatever any old time they pleased. Sure, people have the right to speak up on an issue, but there's a line that really has to be drawn somewhere. That being said, I'm of the opinion that the protestors really have crossed a line that should not've been crossed, under any circumstances, no matter how drastic the cause.
The real gem in all of this
The real gem in all of this is when one of the young female protesters snapped at the reporters 'Excuse me, I need to go to the hospital! Please get out of my way!'
Oh, the irony.
I am baffled
I am baffled when trying to understand why the worst thing someone can apparently do in America is block a highway.
This attitude is not just in Boston but follows all the #blm activities. Has suburban life disconnected from all sense of proportion to the degree that Highway access is really the SINGLE most important thing in the world?
How would you feel if these
How would you feel if these young protesters lost their lives pulling this stunt? Would you encourage your teenage / 20-something child to risk his/her life by jumping onto a highway during rush hour traffic? It's dangerous and stupid.