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City to study higher fines for cars parked where street sweepers go - and an end to sweeping-related towing

Mayor Walsh said today the city will pick a neighborhood to test out a new street sweeping plan in which fines are more than doubled - but car owners no longer have to worry about getting towed.

Walsh wants to increase street-sweeping fines from the current $40 to $90 or $95.

Walsh said the proposal would mean more revenue for the city - currently, most of the money paid by motorists whose cars are towed go to the private towing companies - and would actually lead to cleaner streets, because when you get $90 tickets three or four weeks in a row, "I think you're going to move your car."

In addition to the $40 fine, motorists currently have to pay a $120 towing fee - of which the private tow company keeps $85. He added eliminating towing would mean an end to "over anxious" tow drivers perhaps towing cars that shouldn't really be towed, and that "it's not clear" the current policy really results in cleaner streets, anyway.

Walsh said the city has yet to pick a specific neighborhood for the test run.

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Comments

Start with City Hall Plaza.....

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If you tow the car, the sweeper can clean where it was.

If you don't tow the car, the sweeper can't clean where it is.

How much more "clear" does that need to be?

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...failed in practice. From personal observation:

1. Tow trucks often tow before the start of street sweeping hours. If you weren't standing there, it's your word against theirs. Guess who wins?

2. Street sweepers don't wait for tow trucks to do the job. Result: cars get towed AND the space where they were parked, doesn't get swept. Win all around!

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1) BTD has to write out the tickets before the tow truck can hook them up (while a BPD watches). So, if tow trucks are hooking them up early, that's a failure on BTD *AND* BPD to let them.

2) If there are too many cars to tow for sweepers to wait and still be able to get their routes done (I've seen them waiting for tows to finish plenty of times), then that's a failure to get enough tow trucks out there to clean out the violators. By going to a never-tow policy, you *guarantee* that there's no street where the entire street will get swept if even one car is parked on it still.

If 1% of the parkers will forget to move their cars on the right day on any given sweeping day, you can sample a completely different 1% a LOT of times before you would give two $90 tickets to the same driver for this increased fee to "make someone remember". In the meantime, lots of parts of the streets are not cleaned by that 1% still parked there.

People don't remember to move their cars because of the penalty for not moving it. They remember because they're reminded in time. There are good nudges for these things, like a city parking app that would monitor where you park for you and ding your phone to remind you it's a cleaning day at an hour or two before the deadline. Cambridge has the PA announcers drive ahead and THAT gets people to move more cars more often. I don't think Boston has any PA announcements. We need more carrots and less sticks on this one and while I appreciate the sentiment of getting the money to the city instead of the tow agencies, I think we're still too concerned with trying the stick.

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Well, at least on Centre St in JP.

BTD has to write out the tickets before the tow truck can hook them up (while a BPD watches). So, if tow trucks are hooking them up early, that's a failure on BTD *AND* BPD to let them.

In my experience/observation, BTD has their vehicle with a driver and passenger. The passenger gets out to ticket each of the violating vehicles. I haven't seen a tow truck in Centre playing followup, however. Probably because the quantity of vehicles doesn't match that of the smaller side streets. (giving the tow companies better revenue? <- pure speculation)

So my experience is clearly on a main drag and not the norm for the majority of Boston.

But others who have mentioned it, yes, the sweeper zooms on around the offending vehicles. That part is actually the fun he gets out of his job: playing with the tight turning radius and all. (I say he because the driver in my neighborhood is male - and he used to laugh at my (now dead) male dog's reaction to it as he drove by. I laughed too, my dog was funny)

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Boston does a a parking app that notifies you the night before or the morning of street cleaning on specific streets in your neighborhood......

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#1 should be very rare. A car can't get towed for street sweeping unless it's already been ticketed. The tow truck people all know that, and it's a smoking gun that get them in real trouble with the city and state.

#2 is unfortunately common, because they can get away with it.

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Our car got towed immediately when my wife worked from home and forgot to move the car on street-sweeping day. There was a ticket on the car when I went to pick it up from the tow lot nearby, but there's no way it was there for more than two hours when she noticed it was being towed away.

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Often the street sweeper just goes around the ticketed car while it waits to be towed.

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Now the city gets twice the money.

Tow company gets zero.

You still pay either way.

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You pay less. The real cost of towing starts at $128. Then add $30 a day for storage if the car stays in the impound longer than 24 hours, and add the cost of cab fare to the impound, plus the time you spend going back and forth to the impound, plus the cost of the appointment you missed because your car wasn't there when you needed it, plus the aggravation and bad memory of the experience.

That adds up to a lot more than fifty bucks.

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The real cost of towing starts at $128.

Agreed - tow company dependent. I had to drop $200 to get my motorcycle 1/2 hour after they'd snagged it, teh bastids.

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If they charged you $200 in Massachusetts, than complain to the state. By law the maximum fee is $120 plus a nominal fuel surcharge. Some states like Washington don't have a maximum, so you can get charged $2000 for a towing. But in most states the maximum fee is regulated, and tow trucks always charge the maximum.

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This was >8 years ago.

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The big street sweeper can't clear under a parked car, but for $50 or $55 (the increased revenue from the ticket) the city can easily afford to buy a fleet of Roombas and leafblower to clean up 90% of dirt and trash under parked cars.

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The tow companies were all pumping money into the former Mayor's pocket. Check out the political contributions that were reported, not to mention the unreported.
Towing was in effect in some neighborhoods and not others. The tow companies made more money than the City during streetsweeping days.

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The only reason for all the towing isthat it pays off the mafia. At least this way the city gets the money

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How do the tow companies feel about this? How does it effect their bottom line? Do they have enough political pull to put an end to this idea? BTW I love this idea and fully support it.

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That's the joy of politically appointed jobs/contracts.

It's a new mayor and he will do it his way.

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If the goal is to incentive people to move, I think the new fee is too low. What am I missing?

Before: Pay $160, plus the extreme hassle of getting to a tow lot without your car. Plus the potential for paying more $$ in daily "storage" fees.
Now: Pay $90

So with the new plan you get a $70 discount and no actual hassle?

Seems like the ticket should be more like $200.

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I fail to see how this new plan gives you any incentive to move your car if you weren't going to remember anyway.

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The math isn't all that linear because towing is uneven. In some neighborhoods (southie) there is a lot more towing than others (north end). Also tow trucks try to avoid new, expensive cars, because if they get one little scratch on in it, they'll have to pay for it.

But there are several aspects to enforcement. One is "deterrent value" and towing is the clear winner. Another is "fairness" where tickets are the clear winner because towing is so punitive and uneven. Another is "clean streets", and in theory expensive tickets should result in cleaner streets because a team of hokeys can clean under cars more effectively than a giant street sweeper waiting for a limited number of tow trucks to move cars away. There are often not enough tow trucks to tow away every car in time for the sweeper to pass. The space under those cars get zero cleaning in the current system.

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This:

Also tow trucks try to avoid new, expensive cars, because if they get one little scratch on in it, they'll have to pay for it.

turns into a game of 'Prove it'. I've seen that in action, even with a new car.

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The burden of proof is on them. The tow truck driver has to take photographs of your car before towing it.

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I am 3 for 3 on forgetting to move car and getting towed. But even when I do move the car, I see tow trucks all the way up and down the street, so I just assumed that pretty much everyone got towed.

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If you're in southie, dorchester, or allston, you're more likely to get towed because you're very close to the impounds for a lot of towing companies. Tow trucks will cluster around there and make quick runs back and forth to tow as many cars as possible in a short time. In the back bay, beacon hill, north end, charlestown you won't see as many tow trucks because there are no impounds nearby, and the ones that show up can only tow one car every 45 minutes.

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Cityside Towing has a lot in Charlestown. My wife was towed twice on street sweeping days in the North End and her car went straight to the Charlestown lot.

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Does street cleaning accomplish anything?

I've compared the cleanliness of the two sides of my street in Cambridge, right after one side had its monthly cleaning and before the other side had it, and I couldn't tell the difference.

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The north slope of Beacon Hill is a pig sty. There is trash appearing constantly. Some from residents and some from the people walking through the area. And much of the trash gets stuck under cars that move infrequently.

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Again, from personal observation...

Gutter full of butts and trash
Street sweeper "cleans"
Gutter full of butts and trash

It's kind of a haiku, only not.

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Clearing debris from the roads and bike lanes really helps to reduce flats/accidents.

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Then sweep any bike or general travel lanes that have debris.

But that's not the same as sweeping the parking lane on residential streets, where you can't bike because it's occupied by parked cars (except on street cleaning day).

And it doesn't affect my point that there's no difference on my street before and after.

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If they run in to the storm drains they can clog it, and plus they're not good for the waterways. Plus, if you didn't sweep the leaves, you'd have piles of leaves that would then be flattened by the first snowstorm and freeze in to a solid rotting mass. Imagine if that was beneath all the snow piles. Similarly buds in the spring, etc.

At least in Cambridge, the street is generally a lot cleaner after street sweeping than before. It also acts as a somewhat-frequent way to keep people from just dead-storing cars on the street. I'm dislike Somerville's move-your-car-every-48-hours method (encourages people to drive when they don't need to) but wouldn't want people to be able to just park their car on the street for months on end. A couple times a month to move it seems to make sense.

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Street cleaning does quite a bit, although to some extent it depends on the wind pattern on the street. Some areas of my neighborhood seem to accumulate everything (leaves, cigarette butts, wrappers, etc). Some seem to be blown clean by the wind. So that's a factor.

Then obviously, it picks stuff up. My street is done every 2 weeks and goes from a bit messy to pretty clean.

But the biggest thing that I see is that stuff accumulates in a growing manner. In other words, Say there is stick in the gutter. A chip package gets stuck on the stick, so now you've got a little mini- roadblock. That then catches leaves, cigarette buts, etc., so the pile balloons. When that stuff gets wet, its rotten and nasty and continues to build.

So yeah, it does a lot.

I think towing should continue, at a rate that is inconvenient and pricey enough to get everyone's attention, but not outrageous. Private contractors should absolutely NOT be allowed to gauge.

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...to be a one term Mayor...

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I've been towed once, after completely forgetting that street cleaning started again, and the slap in the face was the insane tow fee to a lot .03 miles from my house. If not for a few buildings, I could have actually seen my car from my window. Totally my fault, but I'd rather the money go to the city than to the tow company.

I'd also love to see Todisco stop swarming my neighborhood like vultures on cleaning days, running stop signs, blocking crosswalks, and otherwise being a nuisance.

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The idea of being able to sign up for a reminder email or text message the night before your area is due for sweeping is perfect. It would help the people who honestly want to do the right thing and at next to zero cost for the city. The city will still get it's money from people who don't sign up, forget, and get ticketed.

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City of Boston provides this already:

http://www.cityofboston.gov/publicworks/sweeping/

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If you park on the street in your area and generally park in the area, but not always the same street/spot, then you have to sign up for every possible zone you might have left your car in (or constantly keep going back to the site, searching, signing up again, etc.). Then, you get a reminder for EVERY zone you signed up for, even if you didn't actually park your car there this time. Eventually, you stop reading the alert mails because it's just alert overload and only 1 of them per month/two-weeks/week is accurate.

What's needed is a way to jump out of your car, mark your spot on a map in an app, then if that spot's alert comes up before you re-use the app to mark a new spot, it pings you.

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I was hoping you could get 1 email for all the streets. Then again, the streets in my area are all on different days for cleaning.

This is the set it and forget it mode of signups.

Your idea, which could be great, requires people to remember to open the app upon parking.

So - each works for different brain-types. (meaning - I could see forgetting to start the app to remind me to move my car)

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They could build it into the city's pothole app. You open that while you drive and it detects all the potholes. When you close it, it assumes that is where you parked.

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They might occur when swerves are done to avoid something other than a pothole? But I guess it wouldn't matter - the pothole crew can do a drive-by on their route to check each 'ping' of a suspected pothole.

nevermind, just solved my own concern. :)

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Ideal solution: every street cleaning sign has a unique barcode. Scan the barcode when you park, magically get an alert when time is up.

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In my neighborhood, the people who don't move their cars for sweeping are the same ones who leave their cars under a snowbank for two months. They don't really need a car but they have plenty of disposable income and can afford to maintain a vehicle they don't use. A $90 fine is no disincentive to them - it's the cost of a round of cocktails. The inconvenience of towing is something that gets their attention. People have worked very hard for the current sweeping program and it has made a big difference in the condition of the streets. This is a major step backward.

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For Housing.

Was at FField months ago on a street sweep day.

Pulled to side of the road, (Ames) where my super was directing me to an emergency maintenance call. So, there I was talking to my super, whilst IN my idling truck. The 'Pelican' was no where in site....

Just then tbe BTD van rolled up. The parking attendant must have scanned my plate and drove away. I too, drove away to get supplies and get to work.

Bull$hit.

Now i have to contest this?
Seemed more than a bit opportunistic by BTD.
I say tow em and take care of business.

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Ok a few things I take away from this. During the Menino administration we were told the program was never put in place to generate revenue it was put in place to clean the streets. Now its about revenue. Next Walsh claims if you get a $90 ticket 3 or 4 weeks in a row ''he thinks'' ( another lie) people would be more apt to remember to move car. So the way it stands now people are ticketed for $40.00 and then towed at a minimum of $130 and they still don't move but by lowering overall cost to people who don't move will encourage them to move???? Help me understand because every other major city across the country tows cars for street sweeping even if it is a handful of cars that are not moved the street still does not get clean. How about all the abandon cars it takes off our city streets. How about the handgun that was recovered from underneath a towed car last year? I get it it sucks being towed but it really is quite simple follow the rules read the signs. Whats next Mayor Walsh lets not tow some one blocking a hydrant or someone parked in a handicap spot. Man I miss Mumbles....

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The ticketing and towing procedure is overseen by the cIty. A car is tagged, the car gets called into the tow line, the towline gives a cleArance #, the caecar gets towed awsy. Pictures are mandatory. They protect the towing company and the constituant. The rates are regulated by the State. Towing is a regulated indystry. The towing company pays the city for each tow.
By not towing the mayor is going to on put some towing companies out business. A lot of dB people will loose their jobs. The towing companies have bought expensive trucks, hired extra people, bought expensive communication devices, state of the art cameras, increased general liability, auto and workers comp policies. Rented more storage space.
DID MAYOR WALSH THINK OF THIS. DIES HE JUST NOT CARE. HE CERTAINLY DID NOT GIVE THESE HARD WORKING PEOPLE ANY HEADS UP.

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If tow companies go out of business, the drivers can all go work for Uber towing people around instead making the city a better place instead of leeching off of the misery of moving people's cars when they aren't around.

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Karen Cord Taylor's observations on street cleaning so far.

http://northendwaterfront.com/2015/05/downtown-view-curiouser-and-curiou...

I am not in town weekday mornings after 8 so I don't know the success rate other than if I see the trash still under the cars.

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