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Wage protesters march through Back Bay, downtown
By adamg on Tue, 04/14/2015 - 5:48pm
Protesters marching in support of a $15 minimum wage in Massachusetts are marching down Boylston Street and in the Chinatown area this rush hour.
Before they got to Boylston, the Back Bay protesters shut down Huntington at Mass. Ave., as URNotInvisible shows us:
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Comments
If it's $30 instead of $15,
then we won't have to wait as long to see the inevitable: lots of businesses fail and jobs vanish (or never materialize).
Not exactly what Schumpeter had in mind wrt "creative destruction."
Are you tired of subsidizing Walmart, McD, etc?
I am. These corpos are paying their employees an obscenely low hourly rate, what do you think those employees do to make ends meet? They tie the ends together with social services that are provided by government. i.e., you.
So effectively, taxpayers are filling the gap between a living wage, and what the corporations actually pay.
If you love corporate welfare, you'll love >$15/hour.
So what you are saying
Is in addition to raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour - we should cut all kinds of social services - like Medicaid, EITC etc.? Might not be a bad idea, but why do I think the liberal end of the world would not approve?
Well, I'm no liberal, but
if we cut Medicaid and EITC for poor people, when do we cut it for Lockheed and Halliburton?
You know, if you don't really mind your tax dollars paying a trillion dollars for a plane that doesn't work and three hundred dollars a gallon for jet fuel by the time it gets to Bagram?
No complaints here
If we can do that and still be safe from the baddies - have at it - I just have no way of doing a needs analysis and my guess is that the savings even if we cut to the bone won't be as significant as many think.
"If we can do that and still be safe from the baddies"
Which "baddies" are those? I'm having a hard time keeping up on who might be marching down Trapelo Road at the head of an invading army next week if we don't stop Obama from gutting the military.
Meanwhile, Obama has sold more weapons to the Middle East then even George Bush and yet we keep being reminded daily by fools of the threat of radical Islam.
I went with $15 because that's the current argument
But pick the number that works for you. As long as the corpo-pirates are paying an hourly that's less than that, we're subsidizing them by making up the difference between what they pay and what their workers require to survive.
Less users
If we raise the minimum wage, then fewer people will need to use these services so yes, the budget should decrease with demand.
Makes no sense
If you raise the minimum wage to $15/hr you don't "cut Medicaid, EITC, etc.", what you do is spend less on the current levels because fewer people will be both working AND using social services. In fact, you'd be able to RAISE those service levels for the SAME cost as you have now.
Basic logic indicates...
That a $15 minimum wage will cause minimum wage earners to stop augmenting their income with EITC/EBT/SNAP/TLA/ETC and will thus automatically cut the budget for Medicaid and the like.
tired of subsidizing Walmart?
So don't shop there. Don't buy McDonalds. It's your choice. fF
While I agree
with that statement, it's unrealistic in Wal*Mart's case.
I don't shop there. But I've tried to convince others not to either. It's hard, especially in many small communities (like where I am from) where your choices are very limited since Wal*Mart has put many local businesses out of business. Even bigger ones, like KMart, and past ones like Ames, Bradlees, etc have suffered because of Wal*Mart.
We're lucky here in Boston. Unlike many places around the country where Wal*mart has such a strong hold. We have choices here instead of Wal*Mart. Many places do not.
Regardless, it would take a very large protest.. one this nation probably has never seen.. in order to even make a dent in Wal*Mart's profits. I'd love to do it, I'd participate myself, but I think it's just unrealistic to think a boycott would have any effect. They are just too big and people rely on them too much to sacrifice not going there. It's sad but it's true. America has become a slave to Wal*Mart in some respects.
Wallmart employees......
I could be way off base here, but I get a sense that many Walmart employees aren't that interested in potentially losing their job for higher wages. I think that many employees aren't working at Walmart as a primary job to support themselves and their family. They work there as a steady second job, or have a spouse that makes more money as a primary income.
And you need to look at the other side too. If you get rid of Walmart, poor people have to spend more money for many basic items they need (baby/child clothes, adult clothing like socks/underwear/casual wear) I go to Walmart for these items as well.
Kohl's is a type of place that should be boycotted. That place is way overpriced.
Enjoyed the back and forth on here
While reducing poverty is clearly important -- and government should play a role in providing relief, in my view -- increasing the minimum wage is a flawed method to enact this change.
For one, it is focused on individual earners, and not family income. So, for example, a high schooler from a wealthy family working a summer job benefits from this artificial wage increase, while a market-competitive business would need to increase prices to bear the new expenses. There are more-refined ways of helping the poor, by focusing on family income.
Second, as Pete (above) already suggested here, poor families are disproportionately dependent on businesses that hire minimum-wage employees, such as McD's and Walmart. Increased labor costs for these companies will result in increased costs of goods. These cost increases would be disproportionately be born by the poor: the very people we would seek to help by a minimum wage increase. Corporate greed could be fought via tax reform so as not to increase the expenses of the poor.
There is a real problem with wealth inequality, but My solution would be tied to family income, like a tax credit. Unfortunately, tax policy is not as sexy a political talking point as the minimum wage. Thx for reading.
You have a lower minimum wage
You have a lower minimum wage for teenagers than you do people over 18. Simple as that.
Not so simple
That's an invitation to exploit people who may not be legally or physically old enough to do the jobs they will be given to do.
See also "workplace injuries to teens".
@kinopio – I like the
@kinopio – I like the creative thought. To push you on that thought a little bit: I’d argue that the age of a minimum-wage worker is not an accurate indicator of poverty. I'm sure you can imagine instances where a poor youth is supporting himself/herself on a minimum wage salary, or conversely where an older middle-class retiree takes a part-time job to stay active. A solution can be tied more closely to the problem through sensible tax reform focused on household income.
I'm concerned that the attractive simplicity of a minimum-wage increase belies its potential negative secondary effects. Here's my thought process: on some level, minimum wage is a tax on employers of minimum-wage workers (workers who are not necessarily poor); after all, it is a government-imposed increase in the cost of labor. This tax is then passed on to people who shop at places that employ minimum-wage workers. This occurs, as I see it, because places that hire minimum-wage workers are generally lower-margin businesses that seek the keep costs down so that their wares are cheap (i.e., Walmart/McDs). As such, minimum wage is a tax that will be collected disproportionately from the wages of the poor. Who does the tax benefit? People who receive minimum wages: people who are not necessarily poor. Adding an age component does not eliminate this flaw, in my interpretation.
Again, I support helping the poor; I just think we can address the problem in a more-nuanced way via progressive tax reform. Look forward to your thoughts.
Losing jobs?
Several places have raised minimum wage already. They have lost jobs?
This isn't a theory - it is being put in practice. Please supply some statistics - you don't have to make assumptions.
Take a look at this US Dept of Labor document on the subject: http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm
The record levels of teen
The record levels of teen unemployment and all the small business and restaurants closing left and right in Seattle indicate otherwise.
Hike wages above what the market value of the labor really is and companies will either shut down or automate to avoid bankruptcy.
Government set pricing never works and always has disastrous unintended consequences.
Pricing implies a fair marketplace
And the relationship between employer and employee in a pre- or post-union world is anything but fair.
But to answer your assertion about Seattle:
Is $15 wage dooming Seattle restaurants? Owners say no - Seattle Times, 3/17/15:
Citation?
I put one up supporting my statements. The least you can do is verify yours.
Sorry Pete
I usually agree with what you say but I can't here
I know too many people who work at Wal*Mart for their primary source of income, especially where I'm from in rural NH. Sure you may say that's just that one area, but I know I'm not wrong here. Remember Wal*Mart is the nation's largest employer (source) @ 1.2mil employees, and I can't imagine all of those people are 'second jobs'. (and yes many are office/wearhouse/manager/FT positions but most are not).
I hate to bring up a movie, but I suggest people watch "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price". It's a scathing documentary about Wal*Mart. Yeah it's 2005, but it's very eye opening. You'll be very angry when you're done watching it.
I do agree about Kohl's though, except it's just a Macy's clone. So same rules apply, only buy stuff on sale and use coupons (or Kohl's bucks)
Rural NH is probably different.
Lower cost of living, no income tax, no sales tax, etc. But I was thinking of the Mass locations. There simply seem to be enough other retail jobs that pay more with benefits. If your primary income is working at Walmart, you should be looking for another job somewhere else that pays you more for the same work. Those jobs are out there, most of them at similar retail locations (Best Buy, Whole Foods, Target, TJX companies). Granted, the retail labor market in Mass isn't as bad as other places in the country (rural NH), I just don't think the majority of people who work at the Eastern MA Walmarts are doing so as a primary source of income. I could be wrong. I also don't know how much they get an hour at these locations either.
but I wasn't just
but I wasn't just talking about rural NH or MA. I'm talking about everywhere.. go to midwest or south where Wal*Mart's dot the landscape and you'll see that many.. Wal*Mart is their primary employment. I know I'm not wrong here at all. (hence see that movie to understand)
Plus I don't think you quite understand why people are protesting.. because if there were better jobs with benefits that these same people who work these low wage jobs could get, they would. And its easy for you to say "just get a better paying job", don't you think people would if they could?
Ok, the protesters are not all Walmart workers....
that maybe true, and I know Walmart isn't the best company in the US for many reasons. And I don't think Walmart's workers wages are their worst problems.
But for those who work at Walmart here in MA, yes there are similar jobs with higher salaries around. And no, I don't think people would "just get a higher paying job" if they could. If you work at Walmart here in MA and want a better salary. Go to Whole foods, Home Depot or Best Buy right now and take out an application. Those places are hiring everywhere. And I talk to all sorts of people from a wide range of backgrounds, and I find that people are particular in terms of what they want to do.
Brilliant movie
Seconded. Well worth watching. It isn't just about employees, it covers the costs to competitors, vendors, communities, etc.
read posts before you reply
do you pay taxes? then it doesn't matter where you shop, you are subsidizing walmart and mcdonalds. you and i buy their employees' groceries, so that they can pay well below a livable wage. how do you not see this?
Maybe we can outlaw them
And their jobs, I sure in your solcialist utopia that will fix everything.
Hopefully our socialist
Hopefully our socialist utopia can include a few bucks for English lessons, too.
I don't shop there. But I'm STILL subdidizing Walmart.
UHub, wat do?
Hey I have a great
Idea, let piss off a lot of people to gain support for artificial wage inflation.
Because there is never
Because there is never traffic on Boylston street otherwise? And how dare those marathon runners block that same intersection next week? If you drive in Boston you are asking to sit in traffic.
What's artificial about it?
If it costs a certain amount of money to survive and you pay someone below that but work them for the majority of their workable hours in a week, then you are basically killing them slowly. They can't work for more money because you own a large proportion of their hours. You don't give them a rate for those hours that meets the basic levels of survival. You are killing them if they don't receive help from somewhere else.
Thus, shouldn't the lowest allowable wage be something someone could survive on if they work at that rate for say 40 hours of the week? How is being able to survive "inflated" over anything other than not surviving which should be a floor we don't morally allow ourselves to go below?
The only "wage inflation" is on the exact opposite end of the pay scale where there is no difference in the efficacy of a $300,000/yr CEO or a $3,000,000/yr CEO.
"wage inflation"
Exactly! Thank you! Why is it OK to pay people less than what they can live on? I can't believe we have to argue that minimum wage jobs are hard work, or that these workers deserve to be paid a viable wage for it.
people who aren't working who
people who aren't working who want more money stop people who are working from getting home from work = not a very bright idea...
Every. single. time.
There's a protest in downtown Boston, somebody pipes up like this: Don't bother people, don't make waves, hold your protest in some dark little alley at 3 a.m. where it won't affect anybody.
If not now, when?
I'm not really focused on finding a time to make it convenient
as much as finding a more effective approach. I was all for supporting raising the minimum wage, but now I have a bad feeling towards it. Is that the goal?
Really, that's all it takes
Really, that's all it takes to change your mind on an important issue? So if I don't want something to happen I should gather up some people to protest saying they are In favor of it and you will change your support to my view.
GIVE ME CONVENIENCE
or GIVE ME DEATH!
So...
...before, you were indifferent and ignored the issue, but probably would have downvoted anything because you would have been easily scared into believing that increasing the minimum wage means you're gonna lose your job.
Now, you "have a bad feeling" toward people who want to raise the minimum wage. You still haven't learned about the issue or thought it through, but you "have a bad feeling".
Please forgive me if I've misjudged you in either case -- I really mean that. If that's true, then think "someone else". I think I'm probably right about a lot of people whose first reaction to a protest is to complain about how it inconvenienced them (even if it didn't -- were you, personally, actually inconvenienced by this protest?). And honestly, those people weren't going to help anyway, no matter how nice and invisible the protest movement was. When someone isn't going to help anyway, it doesn't mean anything when they threaten to remove their support, because they never had any and never would have.
Especially ironic in kind of
Especially ironic in kind of an ignorant way given that John Winthrop and the Puritains founded Boston essentially as a protest and our nation was formed here as a protest.
Yep, the puritans stood with
Yep, the puritans stood with banners in the busiest streets of London until the king heard them and granted them a new free country in the new world, that's just how it happened.
Spoken like a true fool
You do know what the root word of Protestant is, right?
Not relevant
In any way shap or form. You're trying to equate people fighting for a free market vs. a socialist demand.
Winthrop fought for religious conservatism and a reduced governance. Fight for $15 is the complete opposite of what he fought for.
But hey, you know the guys name. Good for you!
Also it's not the 1600's.
You know what the Puritans were protesting, right?
And why the king was glad to just let them sail off to Massachusetts?
Puritans are probably not the kind of people modern residents of Massachusetts would want to look up to; Winthrop's "city on a hill" was a bastion of holier-than-thou (literally) religious hatred, not a land of opportunity, and local politicians should really stop referring to it in their inauguration addresses.
Ah, John Winthrop...
That fucker wouldn't even dare get his feet wet when he could just have some schmuck carry him across a brook:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JohnWinthrop_1873_OurYoungFolks.png
Many scholars would not agree
Many scholars would not agree with you really one-sided description of the Puritans. Admittedly they were not like us. But to point-out a few things "Puritanical" that might appeal to you. The Massachusetts Body of Liberties (1641) was an early protection of individual rights; and the first public school in America (1637) ... it's still around.
A good read on this is by Harvard Prof. David D Hall "A Reforming People" 2011.
OK, so they weren't 100% bad
The Body of Liberties even banned animal cruelty (and torture, except for getting convicted murderers to give up their accomplices). But those liberties only extended to themselves and to people from countries "professing the true Christian Religion."
Others, including, of course, witches, could be tried and, upon conviction, "shall be put to death." Such as, for example, Mary Dyer, convicted of the crime of being a Quaker. Also:
Other hanging offenses: Gay sex, adultery and stealing another man's slave (oh, and having sex with an animal - and the punishment would be extended to the animal).
So, again, the society framed and enumerated by these laws is not one I think most people would seek to emulate today, at least not in Massachusetts.
If this happened regularly
If this happened regularly where you lived / worked, you might feel differently.
If it happened regularly
If it happened anything like regularly anywhere, it would have made its point and probably achieved its goal, so you would no longer be inconvenienced by it.
Well
I don't remember any protests when it was 15 degrees. Do protesters hibernate for the winter?
Are you joking?
I mean it wasn't about wages, it was about racial profiling and equality, but do concrete barrels blocking 93 not ring any bells for you?
What've we learned?
Protesting in winter for black lives is a good thing and easily forgotten in a debate about suppressing public protest.
Protesting in April for a living wage is a bad thing. Why? It is an inconvenience for people who experience a 10 to 15 minute delay in travel by car. No doubt drivers are inconvenienced and must wait by command of Boston Police who provide traffic control for the march.
The sooner everyone who works full time can earn a living wage the better for everyone.
It's a well known fact our domestic consumer economy is held back by poverty wages. You want job growth? Pay more people a living wage.
It doesn't happen regularly where YOU live/work
...so you should stop bellyaching.
How about
During lunch when the weather is nice or putting appropriate clothing and going into a business and selling yourself to a prospective employer.
I have ZERO sympathy for these clowns. I have a criminal record, spent time in DYS and jail, got my shit together and worked two shitty jobs while attending school. Ya it took me 6 years to get a 4 year degree but I never demanded shit nor did I beg for it.
I now have a professional career, not because I demanded it but because I worked for it.
It's called work ethic, and it's something this country is lacking in the 21st century.
PS I went to the same shitty BPS that most of these people went too. So even playing field.
they are working
They work. Just like you. Just like me. What they do is properly called "work."
There is demand for those products, someone needs to do that work so that you and I can enjoy the convenience we have come to rely on. The multinational billion-upon-billion-dollar corporations can more than afford it, and that wage increase would help them get ahead, just like you did, without having to - as you so succinctly put it - "work two shitty jobs" to do it.
The hatred of the poor and those perceived as poor in this country is really, truly shameful.
First it's "don't ask for handouts, ya welfare queens, get to work"
But now even people who work full-time-plus are somehow degenerates.
Incredible.
A wage increase costs you literally nothing. Sure, a company can frighten you into believing that it will require higher prices for the consumer, but do who do you want to stand with: a gigantic corporation protecting its profits, or workers who are no different from you?
Then how are they protesting
Then how are they protesting and working at the same time?
you never
had a day off?
took time off?
had any personal time?
took a lunch break?
you really truly want these people working 24 hours a day to justify their existence, don't you?
our exceptional economy
Not everyone works 9-5. People who do can often arrange to take a few hours off or shift their schedule for something important. The march started at 4pm. The argument that the protest is not legitimate because protestors should be working is a lazy and ignorant argument.
The working poor do not have a lot of advocates, which may be why their demand is for $15 and a union. As of now, they must advocate for themselves.
People in charge of large reserves of corporate resources can hire professionals lobbyists to advocate for them, and do so directly with elected leaders. They can also donate to campaigns, take them out for a meal, and ask them to, for example, keep the minimum wage for waiters and waitresses at $3/hour.
What was different about this wage action was that it wasn't only fast food and poverty wage WalMart workers, it was airport workers, college adjunct professors, Phd students, TAs, Actors and more.
It's kind of impressive in a bad way just how many poverty wage, no benefit jobs our exceptional capitalist economy produces.
Yawn
Troll-y Herald anon sayz - watch me make up lots of fake shit to justify my inch-deep understanding of labor history, and at the same time rationalize my self-centered worldview.
Any attention is good attention?
I think that's basically the premise here - if I disrupt your existence, you will notice this issue and get fired up about it.
Well, I am fired up, but mostly I'm annoyed every time there is one of these protests, because my hard working, tired has to deal with the ensuing nightmare.
Key words "hard working"
These people aren't saying they want to work for it, they're demanding it.
If wish was a donkey, we'd all get a free ride.
No, they're not
This isn't some sort of call for a guaranteed income (like the one proposed by that noted socialist, Richard Nixon). They're saying that if they do a certain amount of work, they want to be paid enough to live on.
Well I
Sincerely apologize, I had no idea learning to a microwave was that demanding.
And sitting behind a desk,
And sitting behind a desk, playing golf and drinking 3 martinis at lunch is worth the $9,200 dollars an hour the CEO of McDonalds makes? Or how about the billions of dollars per year the Waltons make, who have done nothing other than be born to a rich guy.
This post is why "your side"
This post is why "your side" will never get my support.
Generic, broadbrushing with a little envy mixed in will never gain my support.
My irony meter just broke
Generic broadbrushing is all "your side" has ever HAD in this discussion.
Really? Do tell me, what is
Really? Do tell me, what is my side since you seem to know?
According to that liberal rag Forbes Magazine in 2013:
"CEOs earn 331 times as much as average workers, 774 times as much as minimum wage earners".
So as an investor I ask which has a greater affect on my holdings in these companies with excessively compensated CEO's? The minimum wage worker that will make $15 an hour or the CEO at $11,610 an hour? Who is worth $11,610 an hour? Better yet in 2013 the average American worker made $51,939 and the Average CEO $17,191,809. Why does my stock price have to carry that kind of premium? We have been buffaloed by the shills to pointing at the low wage worker and blaming them for our Country's problems. Meanwhile the big $$ earners laugh all the way to the bank and we just keep buying the Brooklyn Bridge.
How much should a CEO make?
How much do you think a CEO of, say, a $10 billion company make?
Just curious.
I think 2 Mil is reasonable for a CEO of a
$10 Billion company , but with certain conditions. The person may not serve on any corporate boards and his board of directors should be independent fiduciaries serving the interests of shareholders. What we have in publicly traded companies is board rooms full of incestuous self dealing. Lots of back scratching with other people's money with the brokerage community leading the shill movement.
That's pretty generous. I
That's pretty generous. I doubt you'll notice any appreciable increase in talent much above $500k.
Really? Do tell me, what is
It's pretty obvious, since most of your posts are just parroting right-wing talking points (one of which, of course is, "I'm not on either side").
I think students should
I think students should protest college and university presidents raising tuition to astronimical levels... whether these college kids make $11 or $15 per hour isn't going to matter when they are accumulating $100,000+ in debt.
Agree 100%
The current debate over the student loan interest rate is good, but the fact that students are shouldering $100,000+ in student debt is a much bigger problem than the interest rate and should be the central part of the discussion (the fact that non tenured faculty, including adjuncts, are pId in peanuts is a pretty big problem, too).
a fine point, but
keep in mind that plenty of minimum wage workers are not students. they are heads of household, fully grown adults for whom this is their work, their career.
Yes, but the people who are
Yes, but the people who are protesting, which is the topic at hand, look to be predominantly young women of college age. Also, if you are head of household with children and a low wage job, then you are probably working at least 60 hours per week to take care of your family and do not have time to join the student protest at 4pm on a Tuesday not to mention the money to hire a babysitter to watch your kids for a few hours. If the point is to protest Walmart's low wages, then take the protest to a city or town with a Walmart. Boston does not have a Walmart. Furthermore, no one in their right mind thinks it's possible to raise a family in Boston by working at McDonald's. Most people with college degrees and entry level professional careers can't afford to live in Boston without roommates, let alone raise a family.
for the last time
it's not a student protest, however you choose to interpret the photos you have seen.
I know plenty of people who were there who are parents, full time workers, etc.. and who are well out of their student years. Some had the day off, some worked half a day, some took their kids, etc..
But you'd have to have gone or at least attempted to understand the issue to know that, so..
Did you see the protestors or
Did you see the protestors or are you being deliberately obtuse?
I can
I can actually call BS on your bizarre claim that everyone (or even most, or even half) of the crowd looked like college students, because I filmed it on my cell as they passed right by me and can look at the faces right now. That claim tells much more about you than it does about that particular crowd, and I am left to speculate what your hangup about students might be.
For the record, while there were some college age people, it was a fairly diverse bunch in age and ethnicity, even to the point of having some mixed language signage. They even had their own band, which was unexpected.
Burger bots
The day these protests started last year was the exact same day a startup called Momentum Machines released a press release about a burger-flipping robot. I don't know if this was intentionally planned by MM or just a cosmic coincidence, but it was awesome either way.
And I'm guessing "spit in your burger" won't be an option.
I really hope these fast-food workers keep it up with these protests. Nothing will help this technology get pushed out the door and into every McD's and BK around faster than their employees demanding a 67% minimum-wage increase all at once.
I can't wait for my burger-flipping robots.
So you want MORE people on
So you want MORE people on welfare? I guess that means more people to hate and blame for your own problems.
Doesn't matter what we want
There aren't enough jobs any more to support everyone, and there probably won't be ever again. When the bulk of manufacturing went overseas, we were all supposed to go into the Service Economy. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of those jobs, even at minimum wage. The 99% don't have enough money to keep the economy expanding. The 1% are sucking up most of the available money, and they aren't putting it back into the economy. We're going to have to figure out how to deal with a large population of people who cannot find a job, no matter what their work ethic is. Blaming and scorning them is not helping anyone. I don't know what the solution is, but all the "I work hard, so screw them" rhetoric isn't it.
I want more people to build,
I want more people to build, fix, and maintain burger-bots!
Burger bots
Last August? And what have they been up to lately? Hmmm.... I don't suppose there's a possibility that their press release might be bullshit?
Unintended consequences?
Apparently, the touch screens are working pretty well in France.
http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-in-france-is-better-than-in-ame...
(Figured I'd add this to the conversation, given how many folks Love to talk about How Much Better Things are in Europe.)
$15 an hour?
Why did they march on their feet? Why didn't they just float down the street on the backs of the magical dragons that they probably believe in?
Some Chinese guy will work 100 hours a week and drive himself to the brink of hanging himself to do your job for $2 an hour and then go home to a slum. This world has an overpopulation problem disguised as a wage problem.
Working for Uber
I'm sure you can sympathize with your Asian brothers and sisters.
Adam is such a poser and fake
Adam is such a poser and fake for letting this post stick around and deleting comments with any hint of the word "thug". Adam, you are a fake, fraud, and a biased clown. Say hi to swirly girl for us you poser. Whether or not this post is approved I thought you should know!
Coming from a complete anon
That, really, really hurts.
OK, no, it doesn't. Not in the least.
Hi Anon
I don't know you from
Adamall of those other Anons ... but if I throw a rock in the air I might hit ya.indeed
indeed, how can we have a reasoned debate without using derogatory prejudicial language. such as thug?
I don,t make a lot of money.
I don,t make a lot of money. But five or six times a year I will hit MCDs and enjoy it. I shop at Wal-Mart regularly. If their employees have to make more than I do I am scrwed..
How is what they're doing NOT helping you?
If you make less than they do, or as much as they do, how would raising the minimum wage not help you just as much?
A $15 minimum wage may not
A $15 minimum wage may not hurt corporations but what about the small business owners do they not matter? Are they expected to leave the state? Many small business owners are already struggling and it would be impossible to pay their employees this amount.
I support $15-20 hr minimum wage
Low wages are rampant everywhere, not just at McDonalds and Walmart. The entire restaurant industry needs a full revisitation of their wage/tip regulations which are discriminating and insulting to most who have to work in that environment. Let's take a realistic view and not point fingers at one or two companies when there are many others that do the same.
I do believe that raising the minimum wage by 50% will have a ripple effect in our economy. It will cause price increases and will cause some to go out of business. I'm okay with that too as a new equilibrium will come out after the dust settles.
It will spur more growth in robotics as companies seek new ways to get a competitive advantage. I am looking forward to the day when a robot bartender efficiently pours a drink and I feel no remorse for not leaving a tip. Progress comes in all forms.
They say the neon lights are bright
On Broadway
They say there's always magic in the air
But when you're walkin' down that street
And you ain't got enough to eat
The glitter rubs right off and you're nowhere
They say the chicks are somethin' else
On Broadway
But lookin' at them just gives me the blues
'Cause how ya gonna make some time
When all you got is one thin dime
And one thin dime won't even shine your shoes
Not being able to screw workers is
unAmerican. As my Tea Party friends would say the founding fathers put nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the screwing over of working people. They knew that if you could get your fellow man to blame his problems on the poor and less fortunate we would create the country we have today.
oy gevalt
some of these comments have me rolling my eyes so hard, I'm afraid they're going to get stuck in the back of my head.
couple of things:
1. minimum wage for people over a certain age (16, I think, but I forget) in Australia is $16.87/hour. Australia, despite Tony Abbott's best efforts, is doing quite well for itself.
2. just imagine if some of the people on here railing against $15/hour as a minimum wage actually had to live on minimum wage as it is now. they'd change their tune right quick. and don't give me any bullshit about how you work so much harder, and are so much more skilled, and deserve your cushy salary more than someone microwaving your burritos. you deserve a swift kick in the ass for thinking that ANYONE deserves to live in abject poverty, regardless of how hard they work.
Nobody deserves to live in poverty
So let's almost completely stop making people.
You know what? I realized
You know what? I realized when I was younger that if you want anything, you have to work for it. I was taught that at an early age. I applied myself, worked full time while attending college full time. Worked weekends, did homework and class projects while many of my friends were hanging out, clubbing, etc...
I am not alone, people from all walks of life work their tails off to get where they are. If you're 30 years old and depending on McDonalds for your career, chances are you've made some bad decisions in life but it's not too late. There are many opportunities for people in need for education and social services. Hopefully these protesters are also trying to better their lot in life as well as disrupt others.
I'm not against raising the minimum wage, just don't bemoan those of us that made sure we wouldn't be depending on minimum wage to raise our families.
And please - excuses are like assholes, everybodys got one.
Now get
off my lawn!
I realized when I was younger
Who gives a flying fuck?
Pass the barf bag.
Care to elaborate?
Care to elaborate?
Sure thing:
Your heartwarming story of hard work and ambition just serves to reinforce the lie that poor people are lazy or that adults who work at McDonald's have made "bad life choices". In other words, you don't know fuck-all about fuck-all, so shut up.
Here's the going rate downtown
Cleaning people - (in private home) - about $25 an hour
Painters - about $25 an hour
Carpenters/handymen - $50-$75 an hour
Electricians - $75-$100 an hour
Plumbers - $100-$125 an hour
Elevator repair - $185 an hour - union rate, non-negotiable - everyone charges about that
Also heard that the tailors at a local men's shop are both in their 80s and it's impossible to find younger people willing to do the job.
Some people will always be working at minimum wage - but if you are willing to acquire a trade, you can do just fine thank you
BTW - BPD which pays VERY well is struggling to find recruits - especially minority and multi-lingual
Lots out there for the looking if you are willing to make some effort.
Wow
All those people who are trying to support their families by working at McDonalds must be completely fucking morons if they're not taking advantage of those great opportunities, huh?
I assume that there is an unlimited supply of jobs in those trades, and you can train and do your apprenticeship while still working your two shitty part-time jobs to support your family, is that correct?
I would hope that anyone
I would hope that anyone trying to live off of minimum wage are also looking for ways to improve their lot in life, you know taking advantage of educational opportunities, etc..
Why is that so wrong? What is this opposite day?
Besides, living off of $15 an hour isn't going to be a bed of roses either.
I am sure there are people that fit these jobs perfectly. Not everyone has the capacity to further their education and are about as far as they will go in life - those are the people who have my sympathy plus some.
I would hope that anyone
What on earth makes you think they're not? Like I said, you don't seem to actually know anything about anything.
How does someone working two minimum wage jobs....
... for 16 or more hours a day find time to "take advantage of eductional opportunities"?
I know many things, actually.
I know many things, actually.
I'm all for raising the minimum wage. I am not all for these type protests and good for those in this group that are trying to better themselves. It's what they should be doing.
It's hard, I know.
So tell us about the "educational opportunities"
Come on, trot it out. What are they? What employable skills do they teach? When and where are they available, and for how many people, and what do they cost?
*cricket*
I realized when I was younger ...
that I should have chosen better parents. If I'd picked me some Bushes or Romneys or Heinzes, I could've been born on a yacht instead of at the Lying In. Then I could have got stuff I wanted by working really hard at asking Poppy and Mummy to buy it for me.
Wow,
Wow,
Hard work, setting goals and achieving them all against odds that most don't have to face is such a bad thing to so many people. That's the jist I get from your sarcastic post.
What a shame.
Hard work, setting goals and
Are you reading this off a poster with a photo of a sunset on it?
?. I don't get it.
?. I don't get it.
I guess it's opposite day; hard work - bad,
You really don't get it
The problem is that NOW ...
Work Hard = Starve, get nowhere, need foodstamps, kids hungry, bills mounting
Simple enough for you?
This isn't about people NOT wanting to work HARD but people who are WORKING VERY HARD and getting NOWHERE!
Simple enough for you? Or do you need a Holiday in WalMart to get it?
RECOMMENDED READING: http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0312626681
Written fifteen years ago and only getting worse!
That's a great book
It really explains why working for low wages is a trap that most people just cannot get out of.
cool beans
Bully for you. It would be great if hard work were the only ingredient in a happy, prosperous life - but it's not. The postwar American ideal of wealth being something you gain because you deserve it is preposterous. Surely someone working 80 hours a week just to be able to feed their family deserves (a) more time with that family - i.e., working 40 hours a week or so - and (b) more financial security than barely scraping by from paycheck to paycheck.
No one is begrudging you your comfortable life. This isn't, or shouldn't be, us-vs.-them. It's absurd, however, that in a country as rich and mighty as America, we can't do more to guarantee similar levels of comfort for everyone.
Wealth and "deserving"
Yes, exactly, Macolm Tucker. I also don't get this crazy notion that shitty, low-paying jobs should remain shitty and low-paying, because somehow that's the only thing that will give people incentive to achieve things in life. No matter what the minimum wage is, plenty of people will still try to get ahead -- because they want a luxurious life rather than just a comfortable one, because they want more fulfilling jobs or a higher status -- there are any number of incentives.
Besides, it's not like society only benefits if everybody is trying to move up the ladder all the time. Not everyone can, as others have said, but even if they could -- we need people to do ALL the jobs, even the ones that aren't upwardly mobile. Why should we demand that workers be denied a living wage for their job until they somehow prove to us that they are ambitious enough to look for a better one? The work they are doing has value. And you shouldn't need three or more jobs to put a roof over your head and food on the table.
Another thing
These days, you can't move up the ladder until you're comfortable where you're at. If you shake things up too much when you're stably poor, you run the risk of destitution.
So many people who might start their own company, come up with some new product, or even help others get things off the ground just can't these days because taking that kind of risk exposes them to the chance they end up dead broke since they have no cushion to fall back on if they do fail. So, they don't take the chance.
You know what?
I grew up in poverty or damn near it.
I worked hard at some very shitty jobs and not so-shitty but still low-wage jobs, spent time in the military, got an education that I paid for on my own, studied hard, etc.
You know what else?
THIS DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE, PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE IN AMERICA!
That's what else.
Minimum wage employment full time in a summer and part-time in a school year used to be enough to pay for a state school and summer room/board if you couldn't live at home. I made enough to cover my housebill for the year putting together two part-time summer jobs.
Now? $9 an hour with 10 hours a week 9 months of the year/40 hours a week 3 months of the year will not even pay for the cheapest UMass education (full cost around $25K).
Loans are still at 6% when ours were at 9-10% when prime rate was 18%.
The GI bill payments were only recently amended to cover full in-state tuition/fees at a State School, but there's still the costs of room and board to cover.
Do the math.
I'll take a crack at it
Let me guess you're about 50. Which means you were working full time and attending college full time at the same time instead of clubbing at about 20 years old or 30 years ago, 1985.
College costs are more than 6x what they were in 1985. The (general) cost of living is more than 2x than 1985 and medical expenses are 4x compared to 1985. I'd be willing to bet rents are more than 2x in Boston too when compared to 1985.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-26/college-costs-surge-50...
When adjusted to today's dollars, the federal minimum wage hasn't changed since 1985 even though everything else has.
Did what you go through seem hard to you? Lots of sacrifice and self-determination?
Now, imagine if you did all that for 10 years instead of just through college, and you still couldn't get ahead because you're never able to clear out your medical bills let alone your college debt. If you can't understand why your way of doing things 30 years ago doesn't apply to today's world, go drive your Datsun off a cliff.
You know what?
You know what? When I got old enough to handle complex concepts and to look beyond my own little cabbage patch, I realized that working hard does not guarantee you'll get anything, and that there are plenty of people who work hard but are shut out of what someone like you would consider the natural rewards of such hard work. You worked hard and it was rewarded? Good for you. Now grow up. Other people worked just as hard and didn't get any reward, so stop patting yourself on the back, it's embarrassing to watch.