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Group fighting airplane noise taking off in Boston's southern neighborhoods
By adamg on Mon, 11/13/2017 - 2:31pm
Boston South Fair Skies holds its second formal organizing meeting on Wednesday in Roslindale.
The group, formed earlier this year after residents grew tired of hour after hour of jets roaring overhead in narrow air corridors, meets at 6:30 p.m. in the Roslindale Community Center, 6 Cummins Highway at Washington St.
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Comments
Their white privilege is showing
Would they prefer a more easterly route say over a poor black neighborhood?
I'll raise you one
And ask why residents on the other side of Franklin Park, who are still under the flight path AND the planes are closer to their homes when they fly over, have not even been asked their opinion on the matter?
We have, actually
Had a whole big meeting about it and an FAA rep even showed up (to basically tell everyone to fuck off). Thanks for your concern, though.
It's OK if you don't know what the hell you're talking about
Most people would stay quiet, but whatevs, you be you.
Actually, this affects Roxbury as much as Roslindale, and there was representation from Roxbury at the last meeting - and if anything, the flights should be directed more over Newton and Brookline (which the planes avoid), but they're not.
But that's not the issue. Nor is the issue of them (OK, us, since I live right in the heart of the new airplane alley) living in a city and wah, wah, move to Lunenburg.
The issue is one of fairness. Back in the old days, flight paths were fairly wide corridors and nobody in this part of the city got hit with hour after hour of plane after plane, because they would take slightly different paths in those corridors. But now the FAA has very tightly controlled, very narrow corridors out of Logan and so when the winds are right, the same people get hit with the noise for hours at a time.
Thumbs up!
Thumbs up!
The noise is bad
Why not find litigants with the same fact set as the ones who won the case in Brookline, take it to court and demand the same remedy?
flight path
In other words, we don't care where the planes are routed
Just as long as they don't go over OUR neighborhood.
Here's a suggestion. Instead of filing lawsuits (the new knee jerk reaction of the WAAHHHHHmbulance generation), why doesn't this group hire some consultants versed in aviation planning, and then present an actual plan that minimizes the noise issues for everybody, instead of just shifting the problem to others.
Oh wait, that actually makes sense. Better to bully the authorities and the politicians into giving us what we want. After all, as long as the planes aren't flying over MY neighborhood, it really doesn't matter where they're flying.
Whaaaahhmbulance generation?
I think that would be your generation - the Baby Boomers - hands down.
In my heavily impacted community, it is absolutely the Baby Boomers who are leading the anti-jet noise charge!
But you have no idea about how bad it can get because you live in Reading, which doesn't get this problem like people in Medford and other "under flight path" areas do. You don't even have your own "listening station" because you don't get your windows rattled or have to pause your TV program or interrupt your conversation every three to five minutes.
Although getting to see a plane hit by lightning last summer was, well, interesting.
Take-off over the ocean when conditions allow
and get rid of exclusion corridors like Brookline and or Newton so noise pollution is shared evenly. I think it would take one or two successful lawsuits to force the FAA and original litigants to redesign a solution.
And they do
If the wind is in a certain range of direction, planes will take off towards the ocean. But, that just means planes are landing in the same direction, and therefore, flying over land.
But, you knew all that.
Not the case
They take off and land over water using different runways.
They can do this when the conditions are calm.
Pot - Kettle
Aren't you the same guy who whines about the commuter rail ALL the time? People aren't saying they shouldn't fly over certain neighborhoods, they're saying they shouldn't be concentrated solely over certain neighborhoods since for decades they were more widely dispersed over a broader range of neighborhoods, which seemed pretty fair since we all benefit from the nearby airport. If that bothers you, feel free to going back to whining about your train being a minute late (or stop whining and pay to park in town once in awhile and give the rest of us a break).
I'll eat a little bit of crow on this
But I will ponder why the people of Roslindale, who are 2 miles further away from the airport yet (being generous and using Rawston Road as the point in Roslindale) only 70 feet above the highest point in Grove Hall, are the ones griping the most on this issue. I mean, why aren't the meetings happening in Grove Hall?
And before you say I don't know what I am talking about, remember that I live under the flight path in Roslindale (albeit perhaps 120 feet below you, but at the same elevation as a certain Roslindale politician who is personally concerned about the issue.)
Dupe
deleted
Probably because
"Some 50 residents, mainly from Roslindale, gathered tonight to launch Boston South Fair Skies to try to figure out how to unburden the neighborhoods under the takeoff path from Logan's Runway 27."
Not some 50 residents from around Grove Hall...?
Also, and when the planes are flying out over Franklin Park - Forest Hills - Roslindale, it's quite a hammerin' noise-wise.
Expectations
Middle class people are way more likely to complain and organize than poorer folks and, probably more critically, are likely to get results which of course leads to more expectations of fairness and justice than poor people (reasonably) have.
I mean, if this flight path was coming in over Chestnut Hill south of Route 9 and was going over Brady, Kraft, and Henry's houses, you don't think they and all their equally rich neighbors would be all over this? Of course not. It wouldn't even been an issue - we'd all assume that of course rich people would complain if this situation was happening over there.
Ever hear of Save Milton
Ever hear of Save Milton skies?
Noise Abatement "Truths"
Basic facts (or TRUTHS) of the noise abatement business:
http://massportcac.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Final-BOS-Update-MCAC-...
http://jamaicaplaingazette.com/2017/10/13/letters-16/
My neighbor's brother is a sound engineer
He stood outside on our street in Medford one day this summer when they were launching every three minutes for several hours and the noise was relentless. Readings were never under 50 dB and peaked at 85-90 dB depending on the plane.
Note that we are on a dead end street surrounded by forest.
Much worse than it used to be.
This is what I like
Not the noise, the data.
What could be bellyaching could be real, or vice versa. Unless you have the data to back it up, you’ve got nothing.
Runways
As bad as a neighbor Logan's 22/4R & 22/4L is to South Boston, It's nothing compared to East Boston with 33/15.
"Sick and tired of this Logan airplane noise!"
"Now let me tell you all about my little trip. It started with us flying out of Logan..."
Quit using Logan, quit supporting pols who are connected to Logan leadership.
Yeah! Drive to Manchester.
That'll show 'em!
Or ride a bike
.
...to Europe.
...to Europe.
Last week's Boston voter turnout
Registered Voters 392188 - Cards Cast 108909 27.77%
When Boston doesn't even get every third registered voter to the polls, it's hard to imagine that anybody is actively supporting anybody. It's only been one year after a reflexive, reactionary novice wins a national election, and still, few can be bothered to participate in voting.
Without having figures broken down for the parts of Boston in the flight path, I'd have to argue, based on the citywide figure, that said residents have the government that they deserve. Nice electoral inertia. Go buy a noise machine.
I'll never understand the ongoing tacit endorsement of rich white people getting to make rules to suit them. That city ballot was full of women and non-whites, and you all sent Walsh and Flaherty right back to work to fleece you. And I'm a white person with some (but not a lot of) money. Least I can hedge against the electoral wishes (or lack threreof) of my peers.
Last four flights
I came in and went out in fair weather. Each time, the plane was routed over the harbor.
They do seem to be getting that affected communities need a break. Either that, or their unpublished noise monitoring data are telling them that they now have many more people living in the >65dB zone due to the new flight configurations and they are desperately trying to end the year by bringing down those exceedences.
Of course I just got a noisy one over my house in Medford due to the usual pattern in wet weather.
It isn't as easy as "quit using Logan" if you want to be employed. It would be much easier if we had train systems like they do in Europe and Japan, but cross-country would still require air travel.
A) In the Metro Northeast
A) In the Metro Northeast rail travel is fantastic. ( I utilize it on a monthly basis)
B) Those train systems in Europe and Japan have similar noise issues, they just prioritize differently. Acela has a limit much of the way for a reason. Japan/Europe could give two shits about noise issues.
C) THe US does not have the density to carry high speed rail outside of the metro northeast and some other city corridors not directly connected to the northeast. It is too bad that Amtrak instead of regional entities handle the city center to city center route. The existence of Amtrak ensures the existence of garbage overnight etc trains (NYC- Florida etc). The NEC subsidizes other rail travel in this nation, regionalize it and the NEC gets even better with more dollars available. Of course the noise problem does not go away.
Rail service is okay to NYC
The break even city versus using planes is Philly, possibly Baltimore (door to door, with security waits for the planes).
I've used trains for all of these, and DC as well. I prefer to use trains.
But it isn't viable to get to Portland or Seattle or LA.
You can get to those places by train
I've done it, It takes three days, and you have to change trains in Chicago.
I'm glad that you have the time to do that
My employers would make me take the extra days as vacation days.
I would love to take the train to Seattle and Portland someday - for enjoyment.
Speak up!
Speak up, I can't hear you over the planes taking off every 2-3 minutes. You need to speak LOUDER.
Signed,
A Chelsea Resident
Walking home tonight
Up Washington Street, basically along the flight path, I heard the planes overhead.
Except when the vehicular traffic drowned them out.
Again, I’ve had no sympathy for this argument for about 15 years now.
Of Course You Hear Airplanes
Over ONE MILLION people in greater Boston can hear airplanes sometimes.
With an airport in the city, it cannot be otherwise,
Just think--if more people
Just think--if more people ditched their cars for bicycles and public transportation, you'd be able to hear those planes even better! #themoreyouknow
Rozzie has noise ... but not THAT much
Certainly, Roslindale has aircraft noise. NO DOUBT. But ...
Most folks in Rozzie don't understand that about 17 communities have it worse.
AND ... Citizen representatives AGREED to the current flight path.
NIMBYs will be NIMBYs
I live right under the runway 27 departure...on the top floor of a 6 story condo and above the tree line. This runway is used quite often in the mornings - as early as 5-6AM. At this point in the flight path, the aircraft are well below 2000 ft. (By the time these flights reach Roslindale they are closer to 7-10,000 feet.)
Can it be noticeable? Sure. Is it anywhere near as unbearable as these people claim? Not a chance.
These people want the amenities of an urban area without the trade-offs. If you don't like noise, leave the city.
Now I'll switch sides
Are you really saying that representatives from Roslindale agreed to this flight path? Or is the truth that people from other areas agreed that the flight path (or specifically this flight path) will go over Grove Hall, Franklin Park, and Roslindale?
My stance on my neighbor's complaints about this are well stated in this comment section.
Flight Path Over Roslindale
That flight path was recommended by the FAA in 1996 and approved by the federal district court. It was the least bad, in terms of human exposure to noise, of 20 paths investigated. For the court order, see the files section of:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BostonSouthFairSkies/
The implementation was overseen by volunteers from the public and the Boston Public Health Board (I think that's the name).
See the letter from Anastasia Lyman
http://jamaicaplaingazette.com/2017/10/13/letters-16/
The public members insisted on a narrow corridor.
I live in Eagle Hill and,
I live in Eagle Hill and, unless I am on my roof, I don't even notice that much noise when planes are flying almost directly overhead-- which is not all that frequently.
Massport paid for you to have good windows
That's why you and the sixth floor poster above don't notice it so much - you have the windows that Massport paid for as a mitigation.
Those of us who didn't get subsidized upgrades get the full flavor of noise because of the way Massport carves out wide blocks around their now tight flight paths so they can average away the noise and not pay for window upgrades.
Apples to apples please
East Boston, Revere, Winthrop, Southie, Chelsea, most of Dorchester and Roxbury are all much closer to the airport. Comparable communities by distance would be Watertown, Brookline and eastern Newton, west Cambridge, etc...
I'm more intrigued by the citizen rep angle TBH though.
To go back to the first comment on this article
I noticed you didn't mention Mattapan.
Anyone know about the air quality impact?
I din't get bothered by the planes over HP but wonder about the air quality impact?
At least they're not as bad as the Milton group...
who complain with a straight face that many of their neighbors had to get hotel rooms so that the airplane noise did not affect the kids' MCAS scores. The lack of self awareness is just awesome. Join their Facebook group, it's like a car crash- you can't look away.
So are there any other flight
So are there any other flight paths that planes leaving/coming to Logan can take?
Anything that restricts the number of flights or increases flight times would be a major detriment to the Greater Boston economy.
I am just wondering if it is possible to lessen the noise without compromising any of the Logan flights.
I am just wondering if it is
The best chance of noise reduction for Roslindale in the next couple of years is the 'RNAV Study' being performed by MIT and funded by Massport.
FYI, Runway 27 departures, which overfly Roslindale, is the FOURTH most used departure runway end (after Runways 9, 22R, and 33L). One in nine (or 11%) departures is from Runway 27. Using it even less is not likely.
Grove Hall resident here
Since I've lived here there has been plane noise and it was just a part of life. But once they made the flight corridors narrower, the planes go directly over my house. It is very loud and continues for hours on end. I've sat outside and timed it. Sometimes there is less than two minutes before the sound of one plane ends and the next one starts. Some planes are low enough to rattle my old windows.
Yes, it has gotten much worse. It can be difficult to have a conversation because you have to keep pausing.
And I used to live in Chelsea.
You can blame your fellow
You can blame your fellow citizens who requested that the flight paths be kept narrow instead of being spread out over a wide area because of their fear that MassPort would take advantage of that in order to fly more planes.