So what are we to do about it? Then again, their last rally there didn't work out so well for them. But that was before today's events: 1 killed, 19 injured as car plows into crowd near Unite the Right rally site.
"I hate Massachusetts natzis"
it would be good if we could get our political leadership and local police to unambiguously state that the nazis will be crushed if they show their faces here in any capacity other than total nonviolence. that probably won't happen, though.
so, next week, i'll be there to counter-protest nonviolently. i hope that everyone joins me. i hope that everyone stays nonviolent. i hope we outnumber the nazis ten thousand to one, and that we shout them down to nullify their hatred and express our unity against them, at least here in this city. i hope they never show up; i hope that if they do show up, they leave and never return to our streets.
but the nazis are seldom nonviolent, very persistent, and they are growing in number. depending on how things go next week, it may be time to start forming neighborhood defense groups to protect our city against the nazis. and it is with a sickening churn of my stomach that i even write that.
as much as i hope BPD is on our side and makes self defense unnecessary, i don't have proof of their loyalty in the fight against fascism yet. they may stand by and do nothing as the nazis abuse our citizens, as they did today and last night elsewhere in the country.
choppy waters ahead, even here in our beautiful and powerful city. we can make it through this if refuse to be frightened into silence, if we stick together, and if we remember who we are as a city and as a people.
As eloquent as your post is, I have to wonder if these "counter-protests" do more harm than good. It gives the nazis something to play to, which is what they want, and it invariably ends up in a free for all. It might be better if everybody stayed home and gave them no attention at all. Their rally would peter out. THEN, the counter-protest could be on another day to show that we do not tolerate such behavior. Remember the old saying from the 60s "what if they gave a war and nobody came".
People don't understand that for these Kkk things or westboro baptist usually 4-5 very sad people show up.
“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.” — Edmund Burke; 1729–1797, Irish political philosopheR
Most folks tend to be conflict adverse. That's a good thing. If we reacted to every slight, every act of rudeness, every instance of inconsideration we would quickly descend into chaos. There are times, however, when standing up and confronting those who want to deconstruct our core beliefs, values and norms of civilized society becomes imperative.
Neo-nazis, skin heads, anti-government militia, and the rest of the extremist cesspool dwellers must be indentified and confronted. For if we allow them to spread their intolerance, bigotry and hate unimpeted we are accepting that what they say and want as acceptable.
Eradication of the foundations of bigotry, hatrage and prejudice does not occur in a vacuum. It does not go away because we ignore it or speak out later from the comfort and safety of our keyboards. We have an obligation to our families, neighbors and even those who we may not know but are the targets of intolerance to defend them. It is our duty to say no when no is the only rational answer.
Few things are more reassuring then when 100 or so member of these group are confront by thousands of every day people telling them we won't allow your view of the world to take root in our city.
Risky proposition? Of course it is. But meaningful change does not occur easily. Civil rights without the Freedom March in Selma, Birmingham or D.C. are unlikely to have been occur without them. Similarly, ending the Vietnam War required the citizentry to say enough is enough.
Almost 50% of eligible voters did not go to the polls in the last Presidential election. It was this apathy and silence that brought us to where we are now.
Counter protesting is organizing.
Tomorrow's leaders cut their mettle in crucibles like this, and make bonds with both the community and current political leadership.
The problem is the 48% sitting on their asses. But we're approaching a time when a side must be chosen.
I see where you're coming from, but I don't counter-protest things like this because I'm mad or want to shout people down. I want my presence to highlight that what they're doing and saying isn't normal and shouldn't be accepted. Yes, in the moment, with no counter-protest I could see their rally ending pretty early. However, I think that everyone has collectively been ignoring them, and that's why we're where we are today.
Yes, people need to show up in Boston 1,000 to 1. Let's all exercise our free speech and put these "supremacists" in their true context; a small, delusional minority of people who believe they are a vast movement, as long as they stay on the internet. Once they come out in public, they are a handful of sad old coots in a crowded, vibrant, diverse city.
Is anyone organizing a non-violent protest in a different area of the city? I would prefer to support that. The organizers of Fight Supremacy have this in their Q & A:
Q: Are the organizers of this event committed to non-violence?
A: The organizers of this event are committed to survival and protecting marginalized communities.
This is a big red flag for me. I don't want to incite any more hate or violence than has already been done.
If anyone knows of a peaceful protest in a nearby area please post here!
It might be better if everybody stayed home and gave them no attention at all.
But probably not.
"We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
- Elie Wiesel
Last time most of my family rained down as ash over the forests of Poland. Make no mistake these neo-fascist scumbags would have the job finished. We are under no obligation to treat them with a single drop of tolerance. When someone comes to burn down your house, your country, your existence, you don't stand by and mumble something about freedom of expression. Non-violence in this context seems laughable. These people would see your neighbors deported, your friends lynched, your parents with their heads caved in. They are no misunderstood sad-sack internet warriors. They are people promising to destroy the very idea of equality and you better believe they mean it.
I urge each of you to familiarize yourselves with Herbert Marcuse's excellent 1965 essay Repressive Tolerance. It gives a very good intellectual framework for the end of liberal tolerance towards those that would seek to destroy the very idea of a liberal society.
Wow...The first sentence of your post is one of the most disturbingly moving comments I've ever read on UHub. I'm deeply sorry for your loss and thank you for using your gift with words to remind us of the horrors of which mankind is capable. Never forget. #Resist
We have fought, not one war, but TWO against these kinds of people; The Civil War and WWII. After the fall of Communism, all the statues of Stalin and Lenin came down in Hungary, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, etc.. When we went in to Iraq and beheaded Saddam Hussein, the statues of him came down, When Germany reclaimed it's country from Hitler, they made it illegal to print his rambling autobiography, (because he was not in power long enough to erect a statue of himself to tear down). I'm glad that ~150 years later, this over sight is finally being addressed and Virginia, Kentucky, Louisiana and the Carolinas are remedying this situation. These statues are our nations history, and they belong in the past.
Are you on drugs, son?
The fact that 17 people upvoted your comment does not cover this board's readership in glory.
About actions like this: https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/896400997865730...
BPD is better and they will protect their citizens.
But there's plenty of cowardly police across this nation that retreat when the real shit hits the fan and they're no longer just roughing up woozy crackheads, hippies, and black folks. This is the same city that sent riot geared thugs against a women in a summer dress:
Where was that show of force yesterday as a NAZI murdered one of their own?
I like the idea of letting them come here, and arresting them for any infraction that goes beyond free speech. They have every right to be racists and I don't think when they all show up together all old and angry, they glamorize their cause. Free Speech is protected under the Constitution, but these groups are always trying to push the line of speech with menacing, carrying sticks and weapons, harassing, provoking, and I welcome them to a jurisdiction that has the moral clarity to enforce all of these no-speech related violations whenever they chill the sacred free speech of others.
Gavin McInnes is not a Nazi.
No, never mind, he's a Nazi.
Gavin McInnes is a racist troll piece of shit. Whether he considers himself a nazi or not is irrelevant.
Gavin McInnes announced on twitter Proud Boys wouldn't be going to Charlottesville. Proud Boys is the group that once took credit for western civilization. They came to Boston in May. Later in the week when Proud Boys did go to Charlottesville McInnes said "Don't tell the elders."
It'll be interesting to see if they or any of other 11 alt-right white supremacist groups got tied up in domestic terrorism. Probably not.
I did not know Nazis married non-whites. Both Gavin McInnes & Joe Biggs are married to woman of color. I would think that would get their Nazi cards pulled from them. Shiva Ayyadurai, another speaker at the Boston rally, is far from being a Nazi. You calling this a Nazi rally is very irresponsible reporting, and potentially could incite more violence.
And watch that clip of Ayyadurai smiling as the Vice guy tears into Pakistanis. But OK, maybe he's not a Nazi himself. He's also not doing anything to denounce Nazis. Hey, just like Trump. And he's not organizing the rally.
Look at photos from last night and today. They brought Nazi flags. They're Nazis. And this whole metadiscussion about "actual Nazis" is stupid. Stop wasting your breath and just denounce them already, assuming you're not in favor of their "movement".
people have been hesitant to openly brand themselves as Nazis since, y'know, the entire world declared war on their ideology 80 years ago. And yet, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and openly advocates for white nationalism like a duck, it's probably a fucking Nazi. And anyone defending them is just as abhorrent a human being as the guys driving cars into counter-protesters.
Your statement indicates that you are a Nazi. Posting anonymously indicates that you are a cowardly Nazi. And there's now a hashtag for you, #whinytikinazi
Remember, buy extra fuel for your tiki torch.
Is the word I think you're looking for.
Funny thing is, he can't bring the sacks of cash to the gas chamber that the lion he's poking likes so much. These fools know very well what they're doing. They don't care because its profitable at the moment. At some point the costs will come due and they won't be excluded from paying up.
Assuming that a man isn't racist because he's married to a woman of color is as wrongheaded as assuming a man isn't sexist because he's married to a woman.
But why does the left turn a blind eye to idiots who carry communist hammer and sickle flags.
Because if such people exist, they are not pouring tiki-torch fluid on counter protesters, they're not showing up at rallies with heavy armament and they're not DRIVING INTO CROWDS OF PEOPLE AT HIGH SPEED.
At least, that would be my hunch.
It didn't work very well.
Actually the entire nation cooperates with an Asian version of the Communist hammer and sickle flags. It's weird how many folks forget that one of the nation's biggest trading partners, and a nation that produces a great deal of what is purchased by U.S. citizens, is a Communist nation. The Soviet Union was the devil in geography because it was Communist. Yet a major provider of consumer goods today is also a Communist nation. Weird dichotomy.
There is private enterprise in China these days. Marx would be rolling his eyes so hard if he were around.
The idea that any manifestation of "communism" a la Marx has existed on this planet is laughable. It's just a lot easier to say "Capitalism good! Communism bad!" Which isn't me saying I think communism is a good thing. Or, bad thing, for that matter. It's just that it's never been implemented in a way that Marx and Engels truly envisioned.
But that's kind of an inconvenient truth to us westerners.
With a nice dash of insipid & sanctimonious whining.
You could also say that laissez-faire capitalism has never actually been tried in accordance with Smith's philosophy. Or that an Islamic theocracy has never been erected that was strictly based on the Quran.
And generally your attitude is indicative of Marxism (and communism generally) as deeply flawed governing philosophy: if it "works" in theory but is always worse than capitalism when it's implemented by actual human beings, then it doesn't even work in theory.
And maybe, just maybe, problems with human greed and abuse of power are a bit more deeply rooted than "which books did you read to form your ideology, and are you sufficiently pure in your beliefs?"
...to say that I did not know what a true Marxist government would really give us. Honestly, I said that. I said I didn't know for better or worse what would a true Marx & Engels government would give us. But you missed my point: making projections on it via Stalinism or Maoism is what drives the Western narrative that Capitalism is best. There are surely critiques to be made on either side.
But I'm not trying to engage in "what-about-ism", in this case. I'm really just saying that within this lense, I'm not trying to make any assumptions on that model. I'm merely drawing attention to a flawed critique of it.
...sounds a lot like Lenin's New Economic Policy of 1921. He called it "state capitalism", but argued that it was necessary to allow some private enterprise while keeping the Party and the State in control of "the commanding heights" of the economy.
Stalin, four years after Lenin's death, put an end to the N.E.P.
Already had to find it again once today: http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255619/fact-check-is-left-wing-violence...
So, no, it's not all the same.
One tried it again today.
but your comment demonstrates massive ignorance about communism and other socialist or leftist political philosophies. Most of the idiots you insult have a lot more social conscience and concern for community than you could ever imagine in your twisted, very small, degenerate mind.
In none of the media reports I've read about what happened in Charlottesville, does anyone refer to this act of terrorism as such. Yet it is so clearly and act of terrorisn. Must because it was not committed by a Muslim.
On today's attack:
We condemn the bigotry - and those who preach it - that sparked today’s violence. Our prayers tonight are with the victims of this violence fueled by hate, as well as with the police officers and other emergency personnel who responded with professionalism and bravery to today’s events.
The contention is that they didn't respond, and that that was part of the problem.
Who are these Nazis and when and where are they going to be on the common. I'm all for any counteraction, is something being organized?
Look for "August 19" and click on it.
As for a counter-demonstration, here's a Facebook page that went up today.
Stand for Solidarity.
I expect that all planned counter-demonstration events will merge into one as the date approaches.
Coincidentally, there will be a "March on Google" (search for it, I don't feel like giving it link credit) leaving from Boston Common at noon (same place, same time) on the same day,. The net says it is led by "Jack Posobiec and a coaltion of free speech activists around the United States", which if you read about the guy is a pretty "alt" view of free speech.
Tell em to come rally up on MLK Blvd
Donald Trump is either supportive of what happened this weekend in Charlottesville or he is completely detached from reality. Talking around this issue as if it were some academic college group discussion dodges the seriousness of what is happening 7 month’s into this Administration.
You need not look any further than some of the high level, key member of his staff who are fostering and encouraging Trump’s actions. Who are these people…?
Sebastian Lukács Gorka serves as a deputy assistant to President of the United States Donald Trump. Various national security scholars in academic and policymaking circles have characterized Gorka as fringe. Some critics have challenged his academic credentials, his views on Islam and radicalization—as well as his motives for identifying with the Order of Vitéz or supporting the EU-banned anti-Roma and anti-semitic Hungarian Guard.
What is the Order of Vitez, you may ask?
During World War II, many members of the Hungarian government and military were members of the Order; as such, members were involved in both contributing to the Holocaust in Hungary. The United States Department of State lists the Order of Vitéz as having been "under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany.
Stephen Kevin Bannon is an American media executive, formerly a film producer, Prior to joining the WH, he had been executive chair of Breitbart News, a far-right news, opinion, and commentary website which he (Bannon) described in 2016 as "the platform for the alt-right.”
Stephen Miller is President Donald Trump's senior advisor for policy. He was previously the communications director for then-Alabama senator, Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Miller is seen as sharing an "ideological kinship" with, and has had a "long collaboration" with, current White House Chief Strategist, Steve Bannon.
The appointment of Miller’s to his role of advising Trump drew praise from white nationalist leader Richard Spencer. “Stephen is a highly competent and tough individual,” Spencer, who famously coined the term “alt-right” to describe the insurgent right-wing movement that has attracted white nationalists and supremacists, told Mother Jones ”I have no doubt that he will do a great job.”
Jeff Sessions is the current AG of the U.S. appointed by Trump. His record of being an ultra right conservative favoring the most extreme views against civil rights is well established and too voluminous to list here. It it sufficient to say Sessions would, by all appearances, seem to favor a return of the US to the pre-Civil War period of the ol’South’s Ante Bellum.
Former Breitbart News executive chairman Steve Bannon talked about Jeff Sessions as the leader of the movement for slowing down both legal and illegal immigration before Donald Trump came to the scene, considering his work to kill immigration reform as akin "to the civil rights movement of 1960". Sessions and his communications director Stephen Miller developed what Miller describes as "nation-state populism" as a response to globalization and immigration.
These are the people, on his staff, advising and guiding Donald Trump on a wide spectrum of issues. If you argue that Trump doesn’t understand this, then it is an admission that he is too ignorant or stupid to be President. If he does know and embraces such thinking, then he is dangerous to our Nation.
Donald Trump is either supportive of what happened this weekend in Charlottesville or he is completely detached from reality.
Or, Trump is aware of what's going on, is not supportive of it, but understands that it's not in his personal best interest to speak out strongly against it.
That just begs the question, now, doesn't it, anon?
Remember in the 60s when conservative America was mortified by the left because of their "moral relativism" that lead them to such destructive behaviors and having sex and smoking pot?
Now the leader of the conservative movement in America, the Republican President, can't decide if driving a car into a crowd of people at a rally is terrorism designed to suppress free speech and assembly of those with a more liberal point of view. Suddenly, Trump can't read this person's mind and is unsure of his motives when he drove into this crowd. He's sure of the motive when muslims open fire on a crowd of teens at an Ariana Grande concert, or when a guy drives a truck into a crowd on the Promenade d'Anglais in Nice. Trump can unequivocally denounce these acts and call the perpetrators "losers" with no moral agonizing, but when a white supremacist drives into a crowd or opens fire on a Baptist church, he's not sure what was in the perpetrators heart, yes, the violence was wrong, but he feels we should be open to their point of view, come together in understanding, don't be so quick to judge etc.
Maybe have a giant squirt gun fight, and if they end up getting soaked and their signs ruined and humiliated in the process well..... We need more creative ways to protest
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