WFXT reporters ICE agents went into the Chelsea and East Boston courts this week to arrest two men they say are here illegally and who were facing local charges - one an alleged MS-13 member, one an alleged member of the rival 18th Street Gang.
Earlier:Two DAs, public defenders sue to keep ICE out of local courthouses.
Wait. Why would anyone want these dangerous gang members to stay here? If they're on our streets, that's just another shooting or stabbing we need to dodge and more than likely another cost to the taxpayers for their housing and food. If they're in our jails, that's just another inmate costing taxpayers money for sure. Don't get me wrong. In no way am I a Trump supporter, but I do work my ass off for a small paycheck, pay taxes, pay for my own studio apartment by the skin of my teeth. And it sucks that practically every day we read about mothers afraid to let their kids go outside and play in their neighborhood.
ideally, they would remain deported, but for many, it's far too easy to re-enter the country and remain here until another deportation proceeding commences (especially if you are never convicted for your crime because ICE stepped in and prevented a court from trying and convicting you) so the chances of them returning is higher than you might think.
If they are convicted and incarcerated here for their crimes they are guaranteed to not be out on the street. They can be deported once they have done their time and they will have a permanent criminal record (convictions rather than just charges or indictment). Yes, it costs the taxpayer to house them in prison, but it's the only solution to truly keeping them off the streets until CBP figures out a way to keep them from reentering the country.
Also, it allows victims to feel as though justice has been served, especially in cases where financial compensation would be ordered.
It's not necessarily about any specific person, and certainly not about the two people whose arrests were reported in the Fox article. It's about the precedent, and what it means for everyone else.
When police arrest someone, they have to "Mirandize" them, or read them their "Miranda rights" ("You have the right to remain silent. etc...") Read up about Ernesto Miranda some time. The man was a rapist who was convicted twice. That doesn't mean that the right we all have to be "Mirandized" if arrested is a bad right. Good rights often come from the cases of bad people.
By the same token, it isn't the violent (and rare) MS-13 member whose detention by ICE is cause for concern. It's the (much more common) undocumented but otherwise law abiding person who is afraid to enter a courthouse to testify about the hit and run, or robbery, or assault they witnessed because they know that sometimes ICE lurks around courthouses. At which point, a bad guy gets away.
Then we all suffer.
Your argument starts by citing the greatness of "You have the right to remain silent. etc..." and concludes with a lament that illegal immigrants are effectively exercising a right to remain silent, causing us to suffer.
Someone who wants to testify staying silent out of fear of punishment vs having no desire at all are two entirely different things.
that's not at all what he said, but ok.
"undocumented but otherwise law abiding person" is a contradiction in terms.
Let's try this with other arguably victimless crimes, for varying values of "victimless":
"tax-dodging but otherwise law abiding person"
"selling vodka to 20-year olds but otherwise law abiding person"
"slum lord with 15 college students renting out his attic but otherwise law abiding person"
"films newly released movies with his phone but otherwise law abiding person"
"cons tourists out of small-dollar donations to 'fix his tire' but otherwise law-abiding person"
"takes other people's SATs for them in exchange for money but otherwise law-abiding person"
Sorry, no. Doesn't work. To the extent the government has the resources to prosecute these offenses, it should. And to the extent other parts of government can refrain from interfering with that, they should too.
being undocumented is an administrative offense, not a criminal one.
yes, you may be subject to deportation, but you are not committing a crime.
you most assuredly commit the same kinds of infractions yourself, like turning right even though "no right turn on red" is clearly posted. and no one clamors to have you banished to the hinterlands as a fundamentally bad person, even though... tempting.
so yes, it is absolutely accurate to say "undocumented but otherwise law abiding person".
Let's say I buy into your point that it's OK to overlook "administrative offenses" because why have any rules at all? Let's see if that holds up for some more examples.
If I keep turning right on red, or driving with an expired registration, or without insurance, or without an inspection sticker, or if I don't pay the parking meter, should I be allowed to keep driving?
If I go in to the front lobby of your office, and law down in a chair and nod off, do I get my 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep?
If I set up a tent on your front lawn without your permission, should I be allowed to stay?
And incidentally, coming back after being deported is a crime.
however, first of all: defendants, not convicted yet. due process is a thing you can't just throw away because "brown people".
second: the point isn't "letting gang members roam the streets threatening kids" (thats a convenient strawman though), it's that ICE roaming courthouses is a) overstepping their bounds as federal law enforcement and b) keeps innocent law-abiding immigrants away from the justice system - that means witnesses won't testify and victims won't seek help - which, in turn, means that criminals are not arrested and convicted. over time, this will only get worse, since the criminals know that the most vulnerable, easily exploited population is immigrants, who won't go to the police and won't show up in court. it's not just me, some anon rando on the intertubes saying this, police chiefs and DAs across the country have said it too.
i would add, victims of domestic abuse have been detained by ICE using these tactics. not criminals, only seeking help, only seeking to get the real criminals behind bars, and what do they get? kicked out.
Because if ICE is in your courtroom for any purpose, witness and victims of crimes who have reason to fear ICE will also stay away, making it harder to convict people and allowing criminals to prey on immigrant communities (legal and otherwise) with impunity.
ICE also arrests American citizens.https://www.google.com/search?q=ice+arrests+us+citizen&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS7...
Wait. Why would anyone want these dangerous gang members to stay here?
This is a straw man argument in and bad faith. If you frame the conversation like this and try to say others who disagree with this policy actually believe this, while they almost positively don't, then there's just no way to have an actual discussion on it.
edit: typo'd police when I meant policy.
ARE BELONG TO US
They can't be stopped from doing their jobs, and I'm sure plenty of people working in these courts agree with handing them over, regardless of the grandstanding from the District Attorneys
ICE in courthouses doesn’t only pick up illegal immigrants they also put detainers on legal permanent residents. Many who’ve been here the majority of their lives. The conservative media loves to chronicle the extreme criminals but never mentions the lives destroyed when legal permanent residents are deported for minor crimes citizens get a slap on the wrist for.
The real solution here is somewhere in the middle. Some should be deported, but we should let the DA’s, judges, and jury’s decide.
So they sneak them out the back door.
In a perfect world Judges would do what's right and leave politics out of it, but we have proof that is6nt always the case.
Unquestioned right to enter and reside in the US is one of those rights.
That's why citizens and greencard holders are seperate categories in the law.
non-citizens have the same rights to due process and protection under the constitution that anyone else has.
the notion that "i am not a citizen and therefore dont have rights in this country" is prevalent among immigrants, thanks to right-wingers such as yourself, and is the reason that so many of them are victims of violent crime.
ICE in courthouses doesn’t only pick up illegal immigrants they also put detainers on legal permanent residents. Many who’ve been here the majority of their lives
ICE almost always goes after criminals or those who have illegally entered this country 3 times or more.
Legal permanent residents came here legally and have a green card.
Can you cite an example?
The only one I recall is the Michigan doctor who clearly had a longstanding bad relationship with law enforcement. A physician doesn't get arrested by local cops for expired registration in any state unless the cops suspect something really wrong.
Too funny. I worked at Goodwin Proctor for 12 years in the mailroom. Trust me, the so called do-gooders doing pro bono work over there DEFINITELY would not want to have any of these criminals living where THEY live. They could give 2 shits about whether these gang members are walking free in Chelsea, Everett, Roxbury, Mattapan, Boston Housing developments, etc. And it's a drop in the bucket for them to keep them in jail. What a bunch of hypocrites!! All the black people and Spanish people who work in their photocopy centers and mailrooms are well-hidden like the way hotel workers are hidden away like the kitchen staff on Downton Abbey. Unbelievable. Why don't we ask these public defenders to have their clients live in sanctuary in their own living rooms!! HA!!
Maybe DA Wendy “Wild West” Wayne can host some of these MS-13 gang members at her own home to help rehabilitate them. Then once fully transitioned into law abiding citizens a couple of years from now they can go to college to earn PhDs and put evil ICE out of business.
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Copyright 2019 by Adam Gaffin and by content posters.Advertise | About Universal Hub | Contact | Privacy