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As Trump shutdown continues, federal workers in Dorchester turn to local food pantry

The Dorchester Reporter spoke to federal workers at a recent food-distribution event at Holy Tabernacle Church's food pantry in Dorchester - including one woman who works at the US Department of Agriculture's Food and Nutrition Service.

I'm just trying to survive. It's shocking that I'm in this category.

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Feds can file for MA unemployment and get up to $800 a week from the state.

They'll have to pay that money back after the shutdown ends and they are awarded backpay, but that should help with cash flow.

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I thought that this was a huge problem for those who are considered essential and are being mandated to work without pay.

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I don't understand, it's been a few weeks, these people should have savings to rely on. I'd like to look at their budgeting before believing these stories.

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You forgot to mention they should contact their stock broker and sell off a few shares.

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but I don't think the media is achieving the sympathy level for federal workers they think/hope they are. For real how many people here have had to call/interact with federal workers when you have an issue with something? Being transferred a million times on the phone to different departments because no one wants to deal with your issue, being ignored, mail lost, fill out this form, that form, "sorry sir I can't help you with that," "I don't make the rules," "there's nothing I can do," etc etc.
AW IT MUST SUCK TO STRUGGLE NOW HUH?

Commonly held belief is once you get a federal job you're in, get those sweet bennies and sit back and do the least work possible, let the plebes fight among themselves. Personally I don't know ANYONE being affected by the shutdown. that will change as the tax filing deadline approaches I suppose.

The ONLY people I might have a little soft spot for is the TSA workers, because they get paid like shit, but the TSA itself is total government bloat anyway. A dog and pony show to make terrified Americans feel better. They are essentially mall cops which reflects their poor salaries (honestly compared to mall cops they get paid GREAT). There are entire blogs devoted to what people have sneaked through TSA security, including firearms. Not to mention a handful of years ago regulations were loosened to allow pocket knives BACK on flights. You know, what the SAUDI terrorists used to take down the World Trade Center? Total joke.

The rest of us don't get the benefit of slacking and keeping our jobs under a federal union, we get terrible healthcare from our At-will employers, if at all. We get lower pay and costlier benefits and no guarantee of a job come tomorrow. Welcome to the rat race guys.

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There are lots of federal workers outside of the stereotypical bureaucracy agencies you're referring to.

For example,at this time of year, National Park Service rangers visit all of the Harbor Islands to assess storm and other damage, plan repairs, habitat restoration and in-season programming. Scientists who have projects based on the islands gather data all year long. If anyone had research in progress at the commencement of the shutdown, their access to the islands and their data was stopped. NOAA and National Weather Service research is stopped, and so this can impact people whose livelihoods are at sea. Flight safety is impacted,as is military readiness - if they can't know weather predictions, it's a lot harder to plan military ops. And then, downstream, none of these folks are purchasing anything, the contracted people aren't earning anything, and as they're pressed more and more, there will inevitably be significant losses as they seek and find other work.

Air traffic controllers are probably the most at-risk for being associated with long term national security and safety deficits. When Reagan locked out PATCO workers, the newly formed NATCA had essentially a same-age workforce, and this group is at or near retirement age. There aren't enough trainees (and their program is also stopped during the shutdown) to fill all of the existing open positions, let alone the positions that will open en mass as controllers give a big FU to Trump and retire earlier rather than later. Have fun being held for nationwide ground stops as there won't be enough eyes on the skies to keep planes safely apart. Oh - waddya know - there's one now at La Guardia.

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besides not being aware of the work the literally hundreds of thousands of federal employees do everyday (they aren't all public-facing bureaucrats) - researchers, regulatory enforcers, etc.. you're advocating for a race to the bottom: "my job blows and i dont have any benefits, so theirs should too, suck it nerds!".

coincidentally, that's exactly what employers and industry elites want you to do. workers against workers, that's how you get rid of benefits, unions, and drive wages down.

you only think you dont know anyone affected by the shutdown. they probably dont want to share that information with you. and given your attitude, i can't say i would blame them.

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that race has been run and won already. Just welcoming our federal worker brothers into the fray of misery like 90% of the country is already in. They are getting free bank loans and groceries....when I get fired do I get free groceries? NOPE. I'm told to grab my bootstraps and PULLLLLL, and I can wait 3-4 for unemployment to go through while I stave off creditors and borrow money from family.
They are in the shit with the rest of us and STILL getting special treatment. Gotta love it.
Unions have dissolved steadily over the years, losing 1-2% every year for 4 decades. At least the Police Union is still strong enough to keep their boys on payroll after KILLING SOMEONE with a free vacation. This has happened under both Republican and Democratic leadership, because both parties are controlled by big business and moneyed interests who want the powers of the worker destroyed.
Maybe when these folks go back to work they'll be a little more understanding of the public they serve. I could care less about air traffic or military operations. POOR PEOPLE DON'T FLY OR CARE WHAT WORLD POWER IS OPPRESSING THEM. They care about eating that day, so spare me the sob stories about halting scientific research on uninhabited islands. No one cares.

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and I understand why. I just think it's misdirected.

I get that your interactions with government employees haven't been positive.
And yes, I get why a private-sector worker who has also had to endure precarious employment and day-to-day living sees something unfair about federal workers being "given" so much. First I don't think they're getting all that much, the "free groceries" are just food banks, which anyone can make use of, and other handouts appear to be scattered and very dependent upon which company decides to donate at any given moment. They're also borrowing from family, trying to pay for their kids' school supplies, put gas in the car and still show up to work to do a job they don't get paid for. It looks like alot probably because the sector of the population out of a job but forced to work or just "wait it out" is enormous and as you can see in flight delays alone, it has a massive impact on the country just being able to function.

But I think you're also working off a mistaken perception that all federal jobs are somehow cushy no-show jobs that promise little work and big pensions. This really isn't the case for the great majority of them, but it's made you come into this resenting them to begin with.

I didn't say anything about uninhabited islands. Actually, no one did. What I was talking about were people like the meteorologists, medical researchers, FDA scientists and USDA inspectors that monitor major storms, keep your medicines and cosmetics safe and make sure that the food you work so hard to buy is safe enough to eat and feed to your family.

I think you're confusing the government with government workers. Yes, the government has done alot to erode workers' rights, in close cooperation with corporations. But government workers are still workers, like you are and like I am, and most of them neither set these policies nor enforce them. Remember PATCO? Government workers fucked over by the government. Which, by the way, was responsible for the subsequent disappearance of organizing rights across the country and emboldened private sector corporations in illegally busting unions and constantly asking for more from their employees while paying less.

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federal workers in Dorchester turn to local food pantry

Never

EVER

Rely on government to feed you.

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and then it's pretty reasonable to expect that the full-time job you've held for 30+ years will continue to feed you, because that's what full-time jobs are supposed to do.

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is subject to whims of a small number of people and is paid for with borrowed or printed money.

If you have the luxury to choose your employer, would you choose to work for a company with exactly one client or would you choose to work for a company with many different clients? Would you choose to work for a startup that's running on investment capital and has no revenue or would you choose to work for an outfit that's more established that people actually pay money to in exchange for goods and services?

There's no right answer to those, just the point that job security depends on those sorts of factors. Sixty years ago when the federal government was less in debt and smaller (read: juggling fewer political footballs), a government job was as reasonable as anything. Now that our federal debt is bigger than our annual GDP and everyone and their mother has a must-fund piece of pork in the federal morass...maybe it's not the job you ought to rely on for the rest of your life.

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They cover this stuff. Sorry you slept through class.

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Just what I'd expect from you. I was also not surprised to see you laying the blame on Pelosi. Nothing's ever Trump's fault, is it?

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What your comment fails to recognize, is that we as a country and society, actually need employees in these jobs. Constant turnover is not usually considered a positive--how about if someone calling the IRS with an important tax question always received a different answer due to a lack of experience, etc? Experience should count for something.

Private sector jobs are subject to the rise and fall of our economy. I understand your point that a public sector position may not provide the stability it once did, given the political climate, etc., but it is reasonable to think that you will receive your paycheck in a timely manner for the work you are doing, regardless of how long you've been employed.

To be honest, I find it pretty offensive that your comment regarding furloughed employees having to get groceries from a food pantry is that the employees somehow (in a fantasy world) have the luxury of choosing who they work for.

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All of the bad stuff you say is bad...I agree with.

However: for the entirety of my adult life, I have believed, and continue to believe, that it is not tenable to have a category of jobs that are defined to be secure. Government jobs can only be secure if there is a large private sector economy to pay for them. By definition, that means fewer people in government jobs than in private sector jobs. Logically, people ought to choose private sector employment over public sector employment when they have the option to choose...like when they're looking for their first job. Those are empirical facts so far as I can tell.

I would like to have a government staffed by competent people. Given that we live in a democracy, the only way I can see that happening is if government is smaller than it is now. If it is smaller, it juggles fewer footballs. The fewer footballs it juggles, the fewer strings there are to pull at and the fewer pissing contests there are, and the more respect it commands as an institution.

Rant: Things like government cheese, and the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (woo aliens woo) and the NASA EagleWorks (star trek! warp drive! snazzy graphics!) do not engender respect. The fact that government is seen as an employer of last resort does not engender respect. The fact that there are so many strings to pull at to throw a temper tantrum over does not engender respect. Not pleasant to admit, certainly offensive to people at whom it's aimed, but offensive and false are different things.

Rant: The fact that the Democrats have pretty much taken the position that immigration enforcement with any kind of teeth in it is immoral, and that anything that doesn't hand out green cards or passports to people whose first action on arrival was the deliberate flouting of our laws is immoral is not a position I can respect. That's my litmus test for governance: are we a society of laws or are we a society of whims and grievances and damn-the-consequences emotionalism. When I was a kid, I was raised to believe that we were, and should continue to aspire to be the former. Now half the country seems to believe that we should be the latter. That's serious shit. It's worth a shutdown to get the point across that you cannot wink at radicals and be considered serious enough to govern.

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Tell that to all branches of the military, the State Department (where else do you work if you want to be a diplomat?), the FBI, the CIA, the FAA among others. There are a lot of jobs in government that have no private sector equivalent if that's your chosen career. Yes some of what you say is true (like cheese and other ag subsidies), but I think you vastly underestimate the things you enjoy on a daily basis thanks to a government worker. Is there waste fraud and abuse - absolutely. But in the scheme of things it's not overly large (take my arguments about schools for instance - we are looking at a potential savings of maybe 5-15%).

And in case you don't know - I don't work for the government - I'm an entrepreneur (who even spent a good portion of his week and $145 filling out meaningless government paperwork). I agree there's lots of room for improvement - but it's efficiencies on the margin, not wholesale slash and burn.

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But that doesn't mean the federal government has any business whatsoever issuing home mortgage loans, student loans for degrees in stuff that has no relation to any mission area not specific to the federal government, issuing grants to artists and poets and filmmakers, running its own hospital network that rates as abysmal compared to alternatives, or having armies of lawyers whose job is to come up with (metaphorical) bookshelves full of regulations to tell folks like you whether you can pay people who voluntarily choose to work for you salaries or must keep track of their hours so you can pay them hourly wages.

Perhaps that's "around the edges" given that all the programs I've described are less than 15% of federal spending, but all of these places need to be staffed with warm bodies and none of these places have the same incentives for performance that the private sector does. Employment protections are much stronger than in private sector jobs, and guess what sort of people are going to take jobs that are somewhat superfluous, have few if any performance-based feedback mechanisms the way private sector employers do, and have strong worker protections.

Like I said, it IS offensive, but there's more than a little truth to it. The thing that's offensive is the facts, not me for pointing them out.

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If you were honest about "triggering" episodes, you'd owe millions to the bank.

I won't bother to post them - just look in his history of posts, and down below as well.

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That's a self-defeating statement. If they were empirical, they wouldn't be up for debate, i.e. "as far as you can tell."

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the Earth revolves around the Sun.

lowering interest rates spurs more borrowing.

raising corporate taxes reduces corporate investment and R&D.

raising the speed limit makes people drive faster.

Is that self-defeating too? No, it's not. Though that may be up for debate.

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That is, empirical. Your comment is not a rebuttal.

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Unless the govt is your job

I repeat.

Never

EVER

rely on government to feed you

Have you read the headlines? Have you read the headline on this article?

Pelosi decides to help illegal immigrants at the EXPENSE of sending federal workers to Christian food banks to feed their families. What a way to run a railroad.

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But we ALL rely on government to feed us directly or indirectly - perhaps unless you own a farm. But even there you rely on government. Your comment is kind of like never ever rely on your lungs to help you stay alive.

And God forbid you ever need help like my aunt and end up in a nursing home for years and years and years after your medical insurance runs out - and government has to pay your bills. May you be committed to some god -forsaken Dickensian house of horrors.

I'm one of the more conservative commenters out here - but there will always be a portion of the population reliant on the kindness of strangers (often via the government) that keeps the distance between us and the 17th century.

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and physical safety that enable me to purchase food from private produces who voluntarily sell their products to me in exchange for fiat currency. In the absence of government, those people would still be there, but I'd find it much more difficult to barter with them while slinging an AR15 and several hundred rounds of ammo so that people don't steal my shit on the way to and from the store.

That much is in the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution.

Government does not grow my food and allot me a ration of it.

Let's not play games with short-hand terminology to blur the distinction between these vastly different concepts.

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...without farm subsidies.

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We didn't all starve before there were farm subsidies. We'll do fine without them. Big agra might see a little less in profit, but since it's coming out of my taxes...I'd be OK with that. Ditto for oil and gas, solar panels, electric cars, all of it.

"The World Will End!" is not a strong argument to be made when there is plenty of evidence that it won't, and plenty of pigs feeding at the trough that are screaming "The World Will End!"

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Or exports? Or the State of Nebraska? Your ignorance of the US farm economy is pretty striking.

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or die of e-coli :)

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is that from some of your other statements, I think we might be about the same age.

it's shocking because the way you talk makes you sound more like a 19 year old freshman Poli Sci major who just had his mind BLOWN by the libertarianism unit in his Intro to Political Theory class.

I used to teach Political Science, I had some of those kids in my classes. Really, this kind of absurdly oversimplified and nuance-free "argument" is very similar to the kinds of things they would say.

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My nephew is a disabled coastie.

Who should he expect to feed him after giving his health and nearly his life to protect the country?

Not every such person injured in service has a rich aunt and uncle who can just pay their rent.

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30+ year government employees have experienced shutdowns before. And 2018 had so many shutdowns and last-minute CRs that it's not like this one was a total surprise.

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The government has never been shut down this long. You need to watch this. I'll call your attention in particular to 7:15-7:30.

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Give back your social security check, hon.

Surprised you ain't whining about all the Uber drivers who just signed on.

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Surprised you ain't whining about all the Uber drivers who just signed on.

You seriously think a federal employee would work a real job for normal monies? HAHAHA HAHAHA

If it wasn't for the federal government, these "workers" would have starved to death long ago.... as evidenced by their VERY quick run to food banks.

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You went and posted the most prejudiced, blinkered, Ayn Randian stupid-level comment I've ever read! Congrats!

800,000+ people, a huge cross-section of people of all areas of this country, all educational and training levels, can't get a "real job" because they've decided to work for the government?!! I guess you have your fingers crossed every time you fly, file taxes, visit a national park, drive on the interstate highways, eat foods produced in the US, take a boat into the ocean, etc, etc, etc...

You've been drinking the Fox News kool-aid so deeply and so well, it's a wonder you can still see the keyboard to type on. Or I'm sorry, how old are you 12, 13? Maybe you just don't know any better yet?

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Now they are relying on the private sector to feed them, since their employer is not forthcoming with their paychecks.

I suppose the FBI and DHS could work without pay, but otherwise, they kind of rely on their employers, the government, to provide them with money in return for employment which they, in turn, use for things like food.

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Never elect fools who hate the government to run the government. A subset:

  • Never put people in charge of the environment who are self-dealing fossil fuel lobbyists
  • Never put racists in charge of immigration policy
  • Never put people in charge of HUD who have no idea what the job entails
  • Never put people in charge of the budget who are only looking to line their own pockets at the expense of the rest of the country

Finally: Never EVER put a half-wit corrupt lying racist in the office of the president.

The republican grifters are intentionally destroying our democracy from the inside, all the while getting rubes like you to say: "See, I told you you shouldn't trust government."

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lmao, this really is the conservative agenda laid bare: you should not expect full-time work to be sufficient for feeding yourself

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She could end it with a word. She chooses not to.

And it ain't about the money, since the Dems just offered up 5.7 billion...just no physical barrier.

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I love how you MAGA dudebros purposefully ignore how your boy said repeatedly, with full awareness he was being recorded, that he was "proud to take the mantle".

He started it. It's up to him to put it to an end not hold the country hostage for a moneypit personal project (well his and that gargoyle Stephen Miller's) designed only to hurt people and benefit the government contractors salivating at all the profit they can make thanks to state-sponsored racism.

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If he think something is important to spend our taxes on, he goes through the process provided for by the Constitution, as 44 Presidents have done, as has contributed to the greatness of the America experiment. He works through the legislature. He ain't the king. He is holding 800,000 federal workers hostage with the wall as ransom. Pelosi is holding the line on dictatorship. He owns the shutdown.

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It's the Trump/McConnell shut down.

You have a problem with authority coming from women, but she did her job. Trump didn't sign as promised. McConnell doesn't want a vote and override.

Did you even take a single civics lesson in school?

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...with a concession, likely the first one in his entire life, but the man is incapable of doing it. He HAS to have the wall since he promised the mouth breathers he'd build one. Its a very, very, stupid idea that won't work, just eat up dollars. Didn't work in Berlin, not working in Israel, not even working in Korea. Just a lot of money down the drain. Dems likey would rather support taking the 5 Billion and hiring enough border patrol agents to stand in a line at the border, just not s stupid wall that will take years to build and need constant funding to maintain.At least if you hired border agents the money would see its way back into the American economy via taxes, purchasing power, etc. Building a wall will make a handful of contractors a large amount of money (that they will avoid paying taxes on) in a short time and leave us with a giant maintenance project for the rest of time, while disrupting the environment, people's land rights all while effectively doing ZERO to alleviate illegal immigration. Sure DOES sound like a republican idea to me. Just like Regan's MOON LAZER that cost billions and is sitting in an Air Force hangar collecting dust cuz Communism or something.

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All he has to say to the reasonable proposals he's been offered is "OK".

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"I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall." - Trust Fund Trump.

You were fooled by a racist con man. How embarrassing for you. Now you want others to pay for this dumb wall? No thanks. Own your mistakes and your racism. Or have Trump pay for it. Oh wait he can't because he lied about being a billionaire too.

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And in a few years when this stuff blows over, with or without a wall, why will I be a racist? When I go to the grocery store, which produce can I buy to avoid being labeled a racist? When I take a shit, what time of day is best to avoid being labeled a racist? When I check out a library book, which one will get me called a racist fastest?

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He didn't say you were a racist. He said Trump is racist and a conman. That's a subject of zero honest debate.

He said you were stupid.

That second part is really obvious in your response.

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Just not being a racist.

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Of when, where, how Roman is a racist? S/he is definitely well right of me on the spectrum - but Roman mostly makes pretty good comments out here based on different life assumptions than most other commenters - that doesn't make him/her a racist. I may respectfully disagree frequently with Roman - but no need to pull the race card just cause you and the others got nothing else.

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He agrees with Trump that Haiti et al are "shithole" countries, specifically because their "cultures" aren't as advanced as this country.

He said the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh happened because the "American Jewish Community" doesn't want to carry guns.

He continue to act as an apologists for nazis and the racist policies of the MAGA in chief.

So...yeah.

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And I'm the racist for NOT saying that?

I'm a bit confused about what you take exception to with the second. Are you of the opinion that American Jews are actually gun nuts and I have that fact wrong? Are you of the opinion that armed people are MORE likely to be victims of premeditated violence? Are only Democrats allowed to talk about what Jews do and do not believe on average?

That last one is pure gold. "He's a racist because he's a racist." Every day is kimono day.

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When I just went to compile the Tome Of Roman Is A Subliterate Racist Shitheel, I hit an issue: it looks like posts appearing in users' "Track" tabs are showing updates to threads that have long been closed. Not sure if there was recent thread cleanup or what, but it's making it tricky to navigate user participation in older threads; they're all showing up as having been updated within the last few days. Any ideas?

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examples?

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You're racist because you dislike illegal immigration. Or maybe they think you dislike all kinds of immigration. Or maybe they think you hate immigrants. And admittedly, it would be odd if they really think the last thing, you being you and all, but that would be the clearest rationale. Not quite rational, but a rationale.

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Nobody said Roman was a racist. Kinopio said TRUMP is a racist.

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Go back and reread what he wrote. I just did.

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Vote for Lizzy and she'll make sure there are eventually no more billionaires with her new "wealth tax" - granted - all of us will be working for the government as beancounters to keep track of all their wealth and how much they owe - so we better pray like hell nobody shuts the government down after January 2021 or we'll all be out of work.

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beancounters to keep track of all their wealth and how much they owe

You just described the IRS.

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Now staff it to 10x to enforce a wealth tax. The assets owned by the rich (cleverly sheltered by trusts and corporations) are amazingly complex to value. Income isn't always straightforward, multiply that by many times to count wealth. And that's before we start talking what it would do to the financial system to make these assets liquid to pay those taxes.

We'll see more, but this sounds foolishly naive (not to mention unconstitutional without amending the constitution).

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Federal excises on property have been legal since the original constitution.

It's just stupid for the reasons you described, but I don't think it would be illegal.

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Apparently there are many that say you can't do this under the constitution. Wasn't warren a constitutional lawyer? I guess she thinks it's ok.

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I misread what her plan was. And misremembered the history federal of direct taxation. My mistake.

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It's the Trump/McConnell shutdown, in the slimiest most selfish Rethuglican tradition. Nothing new here.

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Really? - tell that to the family of Matthew Denice.

When the anti-gun folks love to use the example that stronger (often anti-constitutional) gun control measures are worth it if they save "even one life", I argue that the same could be said for border control. Matthew Denice would be alive today if illegal immigrant scumbag Nicholas Guaman was not here to drive drunk and mow down this innocent young man in the prime of his life.

There is no counterpoint. If he was not here, Matthew Denice would be alive. Trump has made a promise to bring us border security - and unlike almost all politicians, he is actually trying to get something done.

The Dems own this just as much as Trump. Facts are tough sometimes but in this period filled with journalistic integrity issues, it would be nice if our headlines could tell the whole story.

https://www.milforddailynews.com/news/20160901/our-son-matthew-denicewou...

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bro even hardcore rightwing nationalist anti-immigration groups are pulling their hair out over this dumbass obsession with the wall. they're begging trump to put that five bil into e-verify and ending the lottery. wall crossings are a fucking distraction for the brainless, even the nazis know that.

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You did your best job of generalizing and furthering the narrative or hate. kudos

"hardcore rightwing nationalist anti-immigration groups"? nnnnnope.

I have still yet to find any anti-immigration groups - be they hardcore, right-wing or otherwise.

I do know LOTS of people, both democrat and republican that are against ILLEGAL immigration. Yes, educated, well-rounded, common sense people who recognize that having a country with borders is OK. And having a country that has a strong illegal immigration stance is OK - you know, just like almost every other country in the world.

Spell it with me ILLEGAL. It's really not too hard to comprehend.

Every American Citizen who is killed or assaulted by an illegal immigrant, and every American Citizen who ODs on heroin or fentanyl from the southern border is one too many - it should NEVER happen.

How is e-verify going to stop an illegal immigrant (or drugs) from getting here? enlighten me.

And here is an easy to understand example "bro" - If I travel to a country in Europe this year to vacation (without a criminal record, or drugs) and just decide to stay there forever (oh, and demand government benefits, a drivers license, housing, etc.) guess what, I can't. Not to mention that to get there, I need a thing called a PASSPORT - because they also have things called BORDERS, and LAWS.

Believe it or not, it's not just evil Americans who like to enforce these things.

Remember this the next time a young man like Matthew Denice is killed by an illegal immigrant, or some kid in Boston ODs on fentanyl, see how your "e-verify" is doing then.

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ok well sounds like you're not all that informed on what's going on. plenty of groups wanting to shut down immigration - legal or otherwise - mostly by making it real real hard to legally immigrate at all :) and a good amount of THOSE groups aren't happy with this wall thing:

“We’re obviously a little frustrated because so much focus has been on barriers, walls and fences,” said Chris Chmielenski, director of content and activism at NumbersUSA, which supports curbing legal and illegal immigration.

also a heads up on the public health front: the VAST MAJORTY of the heroin and fentanyl being smuggled into the county is through ports of entry (and - shocker - mostly from china!) so the wall isn't gonna do shit to make a meaningful impact on that.

but hey keep chewing that narrative fox is feeding you, bro

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You realize that by far most illegal immigration comes through people overstaying their visas after they come here via plane right? The wall will literally do nothing to stop people coming over the border. It is a ridiculous, useless symbol.

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and be more judicious about whom we give visas. Like we could stop issuing visas to people who are likely to overstay.

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So we can keep people like you out?

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So we do need ICE to round these people up after all. Gotcha.

And the drugs are also overstaying their visas?

And the people being deported 4 and 5 times?
Like those continually picked up in East Boston and Chelsea?market They are also overstaying their visas?

Keep telling yourself that we don't have a problem with illegal immigration via illegal border crossings. And also be prepared to tell the families of innocent americanas, that 'no human is illegal" when their loved one is killed by a person who shouldn't even be here.

In 2016 there were over 400,000 apprehensions on the southern border. That was just the apprehensions. You live in a fantasy world.

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Trying to put your spin on the article?
Where in that story does it say Trumps shutdown?

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but Trump himself owned it. said he was proud of it. don't you remember?

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"I am proud to shut down the government." -Trump

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You don't have to mention that Bob Kraft owns the team every time you mention the Patriots. Some things just are.

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Well at least now she'll see what a bad state the food pantries are in and report back to her higher-ups after the shutdown. Good luck when your only source of protein is a generic brand can of kidney beans with high sodium levels and firming agents as preservatives. No wonder poor people die faster than rich people. I volunteer every once in a while over at the Red Cross. Not a Whole Foods. I feel bad when someone says, "Do you have any turkey roll left?" For those of you who are not familiar with the food pantry operations, turkey roll is occassionally supplies to food panties if you"re lucky. I can't really pronounce the ingredients but it says it's mechanically processes and mysteriously doesn't separate in the frying pan when u try to cook it like ground turkey. It's more like a pink paste. Does anyone personally know anyone over at 60 Minutes who I can contact?

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I am pretty comfortable in my role as probably the most right-wing poster here. I am not here to change minds. I am here to test my stance.... and let others test theirs.... what used to be called debate.

This, though:

Good luck when your only source of protein is a generic brand can of kidney beans with high sodium levels and firming agents as preservatives. No wonder poor people die faster than rich people.

This is a bipartisan, or should be, mic dropper. I despise leeches, perpetual victims and career slugs, but there is no arguing that the poor are dealt a shitty hand in the whole food thing... from all sides.

That said... don't knock the whole "mechanically separated" meat thing. Just knock the added flavorfuls. Our Indian predecessors would be proud of us for using the whole carcass... just not adding poisonous shit to it to make it yummy....and poisonous...

My mind was changed in 2003 or so. A left-winger laid down some serious facts on nutrition in an online debate. He got no sway from me on his other lame-ass accusations. There is no right to nutrition.... but there is brotherhood in seeking truth and jacking us all up a level in the face of scumbags who disregard simple biology in favor of power.

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