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Fans of dark-ages medicine rally at the State House

The Daily Free Press reports on a protest outside the State House by people who object to vaccines because they think children were meant to get sick.

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Anti-vax insurance.

This would cover medical bills for their child and for liability insurance to cover anyone with a weakened immune system who was infected during an epidemic in which their child participated.

But then it would be too expensive - so much easier to let your kid get tetanus and have the taxpayers pay for it!

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From an acquaintance who has studied this a lot more than I have:

Here's my suggestion for dealing with anti-vax parents in the United States:

Every person who receives a vaccination pays 75 cents per dose (so $2.25 for a triple-dose like MMR) into the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). Because vaccination is SO important for public health but does have measurable risks, the government created a special program that removes vaccinations, from the most part, from the expensive system of tort liability and puts it in a special no-fault liability system. If you develop one of the known complications of a particular vaccine, you are paid out of the NVICP fund, without even having to prove your complication came from the vaccine specifically. (If you develop an unknown complication, you can go through a court-like process to request compensation.) As vaccines overall get safer, the cost-per-dose paid to NVICP falls; if vaccines get more dangerous, it rises. All victims are compensated appropriately (and have rights of appeal) so that we can get the great public health good of vaccinations while paying recompense to the small number of people who will, inevitably, suffer the rare side effects.

Now, we will remove children with medical exemptions from this question (although the medical exemption will now have to be approved by a state medical official, not just a drive-through doc who hands out medical exemptions for anything). They're among the people who need protection! If we want, they can pay the 75-cent excise tax on their medical exemption per dose. So leaving aside that group:

I propose that anyone, for any reason may pursue a Certificate of Non-Vaccination and to do so, they will pay into the Vaccine-Preventable Illness Compensation Fund. This fund will cover ALL of the costs of ALL vaccine-preventable diseases -- all medical care for all patients, all governmental costs for intervention to prevent an epidemic, reasonable compensation for time and inconvenience and lost work for workers/parents who are subject to quarantine, and reasonable compensation for long-term injuries or deaths, exactly the way that the NVICP does for people injured by vaccines. Part of the problem is that the cost of vaccine injuries is borne by those who vaccinate for the good of public health, while the cost of failing to vaccinate is borne by taxpayers generally, so what we need to do is shift the cost of failing to vaccinate on to those who refuse to vaccinate.

So a couple of years ago I worked this out for California, which has pretty good vaccination statistics and had recently had a measles epidemic (2008 maybe?). I looked at the CDC's estimates of the costs of medical care for all the patients under the age of 18, the costs to the state government for controlling the epidemic, and I threw in a reasonable (small) compensation amount for the two (I think) children who died based on lawsuits for wrongful death in other sorts of cases. Then I divided that total number by California's estimate of the total number of unvaccinated children in the state of California, to work out what it costs the state of California per unvaccinated child in the case of a very small measles outbreak.

You'll be happy to know that you could acquire a Certificate of Non-Vaccination for Measles for the low, low price of $10,000 per skipped measles dose.

Give parents the choice. Vaccinate their children and pay the 75-cent excise towards the total cost of the injuries caused by vaccines, or let them skip vaccinations and pay the $10,000 excise towards the total cost of injuries caused by vaccine-preventable diseases. It will probably help them make more appropriate risk assessments, and of course the cost of the vaccine vs. the certification will rise and fall with the risk of vaccinating vs. not vaccinating. If, in fact, skipping vaccinations is as safe as claimed, that cost will fall dramatically! Let the free market solve the problem by shifting the costs onto the appropriate people.

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Is your acquaintance ok with others sharing this?

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First off, not a very unbiased article title, but ad a lover of UHub, ill give Adam a pass.
Im honestly a bit shocked to see the lack of any critical thought here.
Please look at who the top 5 or even top 10 vaccine makers in the world are. Glaxo Smith Kline, Merck, Pfizer, sanofi, etc....EVERY single one has been found guilty of fraud in the last decade. Every one has paid huge settlements. They have been proven to lie about safety and efficacy. They have been proven to collude via kickback schemes. These arent small cases of fraud, these are some of the biggest cases the courts have ever seen.
Somehow, everyone loves to accept the "science" from these same companies as fact as opposed to other studies that say otherwise. What about the incredible rise in autoimmune disorders, which is one of the most profitable areas in new medicines made by these same companies. What about the links between these vaccines and autoimmune disorders. Oh, right..pfizer didnt conduct that study...must be bunk.
Even by the CDC logic which so many tout, is there no concern about the following cdc stats?
1) injury compensation has increased dramatically..the last 4 years saw an average of over 600 compensated events per year, and payouts of over $250 million per year.
2) the CDC also estimates that only between 1-10% of adverse event are ever reported.

Is 600 compensated events to many? Is 6000? Is 60000? Do any of you have compassion gor these kids? Can their parents take solace in pharma science?

How many measles deaths have there been in the US to spark this outrage, less than 10 in the last decade? Which took place in highly immunovompromised individuals?

How many deaths are caused by pharmaceuticals? Over 70,000 Americans per year..thats how many. And you numbskulls think you are fighting for a good cause. Wake the hell up people..anyone rooting for mandatory injections by for-profit corporations is really not thinking much through.

Keep fearing the epidemic that means nothing while feeding the one that is actually killing tens of thousands. Some serious self-righteous bone-heads need to wake the f up.

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And yes, pharmaceutical companies are out for profits.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't vaccinate your kids.

How many measles deaths have there been in the US to spark this outrage, less than 10 in the last decade? Which took place in highly immunovompromised individuals?

You know why there are so few measles deaths in the US?

You can probably figure it out, but just in case: The answer begins with a "v" and ends with "ation."

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You say yes people die from pharmaceuticals and yes they are for profit and then just move on? That is just a given? Come on Adam, you're better than that.

Who do you think is driving this legislation? You think it is just politucians or perhaps the pharmaceutical lobby is involved. Haven't you learn tbat it is the legislation that drives the massive future profits? It was the pharma lobby that got the no-fault legislation for vaccine compensation so that they couldnt be sued...then guess what, over the course of the next 5 years, they added about 30 vaccines to the schedule. How many do you think will be added once they make them mandatory?
Think about it..you people want MANDATORY injections from for profit corporations with literally some of the worst track records in the history of our judicial system for deceiving, lying and killing people for profit.
You are supporting the guys killing 70k Americans per year without so much as a question?? Did you even know that Merck is currently in litigation for lying about measles efficacy? That whistleblowers in the company are saying that the efficacy trials were faked? Just please look at the history of the top ten vaccine manufacturers. Most if not all have plead guilty to fraud.
Did you know that on average, these companies spend twice as much on sales and marketing than they do on reasearch and development. That includes marketing to doctors, medical boards, lobbyists, and even paying bloggers and now even instagram influencers to push the vaccine agenda. If you spend time on line, i guarantee you are being heavily subject to pharma marketing.
Does anyone care about the 600 compensated victims every year? Or what, according to the CDC really amounts to between 6000 and 60000 victims?
Do you know what measles and the boogeyman have in common? They both killed zero Americans since 2003, Despite thousands of reported cases in both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Guess how many people pharmaceuticals have killed since then? Over 1 million. Give me a freakin break. People need to snap out of it and see the logic at some point.

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Like I said earlier, it's a simple answer, but since you seem to have missed it, here's another clue: In addition to beginning with "v" and ending with "ation," it has "accin" in the middle.

Me, I'm going to give some credit to what doctors and other health-care professionals say.

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You keep listening to what medical professionals say, who listen to what the pharmaceutical companies say. That's the problem. As a journalist, you should do a little research yourself, or at least refute the fact that every vaccine maker has been found guilty of fraud, or that according to the CDC's own website, there have been an average of over 600 compensated events per year over the last 4 years. Refute the fact that the cdc itself says that is only between 1-10 % of actual adverse events. Refute the fact that aluminum is a neurotoxin, and is present in vaccines, refute the links to autoimmune disorders.
Refute the fact pharmaceuticals are responsible for a million deaths this century in the US, while there hasnt been a measles death since 2003. Refute the fact that many doctors have signed petitions against vaccines, and agree with the science that they are not safe.
Or you can just stick your head in the sand, continue the cute spelling game,
and believe those health care professionals who have plead guilty to fraud, and help further their agenda.
Is there a time for vaccines? Of course there is. If you are travelling to a highly infected area, or an outbreak takes place, But there is an obvious concern for safety that needs to be addressed. Its time we showed some compassion for the thousands that have been injured by vaccines.
Mandatory injections by for profit corporations is some psycho nazi fascist stuff we are getting into. You should give it a LOT more respect than you are.
Read the court cases against all the major vaccine makers at least..learning a little about how these companies function will tell you a lot.

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It's your life, do what you want.

Except, of course, you're putting at risk people who can't get vaccinated for whatever reasons (I hope you stay away from all newborns) or who are immunocompromised (I hope you stay away from people on chemotherapy and the like).

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Thats the main point..its your life, its your kids. Tbey have a natural birthright of a natural immune system.
If we use your logic, should we make it mandatory for mothers to breastfeed? We know breastfed children have statistically far less colds, ear infections and respiratory infections. It would inevitably save lives if everyone breast fed, but at what point do you draw the line?
I dont mean to rant and I truly love UHub, but this us extremely serious to me. And the lack of forethought is pretty frightening.

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Ask yourself why nobody gets smallpox or polio anymore. It's not because of your children's birthright.

Breast feeding? Please. Mother's milk in general is superior to formula, but nobody is going to get sick if you don't breast feed your kids - not you, not your kids and especially not people you come into contact with.

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Adam, by spreading their dangerous misinformation, this cretin is effectively shouting fire in a crowded theater. I don't think you need to provide them a forum.

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Please let me know any misinformation. Im happy to provide you with links.

Here is the Vaers vaccine compensation data showing the averages of 600+ compensated events and $250 million yearly average in payouts over the last 4 years
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

Here is a link to the CDC page on VAERS explaining the positives and negatives of VAERS.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/surv-manual/chpt21-surv-adverse-events...

They used to list the 1-10% statistic on their site..they have since chosen to just list the study (reference number 29) which shows how they came to the figure..that link is below

Here is a link to the study the CDC used to highlight the downside of underreporting on VAERS
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1615747/?page=3

Here is a link to the top 10 vaccine manufacturers
https://blog.technavio.com/blog/top-10-vaccine-manufacturers

Feel free to search each one for fraud cases.

Here is a case on the #1 vaccine manufacturer glaxosmithkline..feel free to read and digest what they did.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/glaxosmithkline-plead-guilty-and-pay-3-bi...

Is this information or misinformation?

When pharamceutical companies spend billions of dollars convincing people directly and 8 times that much convincing doctors and medical boards that their medications are safe, is that information or misinformation?

As for the breast milk argument, why is it any different? Non breast fed kids are more susceptible to colds and infections and more apt to transmit those infections. They have not gotten the benefit of antibodies from their mother. The percentages of non breast fed are way higher than non-vaccinated.
How many immuncompromised kids are subjected to them? How many chemo patients? Its the exact same logic. Im certainly not a proponent of it, but in all honesty it makes a lot mire sense and would probably be a lot more beneficial to public health.

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The UAE actually mandated breastfeeding for the first 2 years for just this reason. I dont necessarily agree, as I prefer a free society, but it makes just as much sense..maybe even more so.

The world health organization itselfs states that breastfeeding reduces infant mortality, reduces contagions, reduces childhood illnesses like diarrhoea and pneumonia, reduces illness recovery times, reduces breast and ovarian cancer in mothers.
Breast fed kids typically have less allergies, where immunized kids tend to have more. Breast feeding is linked to higher iq, and less health problems into adulthood.

It also makes incredible sense financially, and environmentally.

You are very quick to dismiss it. Maybe its time to stop and ask why?

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The Centers for Disease Control says:

Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism
There is no link between vaccines and autism.
Vaccine ingredients do not cause autism.

The CDC has no profit motive, and no axe to grind on this issue. They are the premiere experts on matters of disease. Why don't you believe them?

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and i fully agree. Vaccinate your damn kids.

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"she believes vaccines are unsafe"
"his body just seems to be hypersensitive"
"has heard contradictory accounts from others she knows"
"she also believes children must undergo certain diseases"

Emphasis mine in all of the above

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also "we're" not afraid to have the measles (her kids had the measles.) who is "we" ?

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Give me a referral to an anecdotalist!

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They didn't tell us about the complications of measles or mumps for fear that we would all have nightmares. Polio was scary enough; the Salk and Sabin vaccines seemed like miracles to us.

The anti-vax movement is a product people's natural reluctance to see their children get a needle, a tiny fraudulent study and short memories. They are also getting a free ride from the herd immunity provided our high vaccination rates. They also endanger the people who can't be vaccinated and must depend on others.

Please let your state rep know that you support the bill to remove the religious exemption from the mandatory vaccination law.

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My oldest son (16) and my youngest (2) got chicken pox at the same time a few years before the vaccine was available. The youngest cried inconsolably. There was no relief for him. He had no idea why his parents couldn't make it better.The oldest I think cried privately. When he emerged once from his dark room, he said, "I am so sick of smelling like puss." I cried for him, too.
All vaccines are a blessing from Science. Or God, if that's your preference.

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My son got them before the vaccine was available.

He wasn't yet 2. Learned the words "itchy" and "oatmeal bath".

Did I mention that I was a week from giving birth to his brother, too? At least it was more inconvenient than traumatic, but it upended our lives more than I care to remember.

My mother had mumps as a child - there were pictures - and yet she got them as an adult due to immune system issues. It was horrifying. I stayed home from school to take care of her.

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Measles doesn't strengthen the immune system, it weakens it--one of the effects of the measles is that it wipes out some of what the person's immune system has already learned. So if her child had chicken pox or mumps before they had measles, they may not even have that supposedly better natural immunity that she's talking about. This is why kids who survive the measles are *more* likely to die of things other than measles for two or three years afterward than kids who didn't have the measles.

(Google "measles immune amnesia.")

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I need to be home this afternoon to wait for repair personnel.

I'm telling you all this so that you know precisely what's stopping me from driving by this and yelling (expletive) at the participants.

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“I have had friends who have had babies who have died immediately after vaccines,” Coburn said.

I think I know what the problem is here, and it isn't the vaccines. Has anyone warned this woman's friends to keep their babies away from her? Or the authorities? (Hopefully she is actually just lying, as opposed to being a nexus of infant mortality.)

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I wonder if they drove to this demonstration? About 1,000 kids under age 13 die each year in motor vehicle crashes. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/children

Meanwhile, the US has been tracking reports of adverse events following vaccines, most of which are coincidental. Extreme complications are very rare:

A 10-year review of claims to the US National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program noted five cases of death from anaphylaxis after vaccinations [30]. Another study published in 2003 using electronic health record databases found that after 7,644,049 doses of vaccination in children and adolescents, there were five possible cases of vaccine associated anaphylaxis and none resulted in death [29].

The evidence for the safety and effectiveness of vaccines routinely given to children and adults in the Unites States is overwhelmingly favorable. In the case of MMR vaccine, this includes preventing hundreds of potential measles-related deaths each year [34]. Any discussion of the true risks of vaccination should be balanced by acknowledgment of the well-established benefits of vaccines in preventing disease, disability and deaths from infectious diseases.

SOURCE

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That headline is so funny and witty. Heeee heee har har haha haha. Not.

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n/t

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to grasp the concept of irony?

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of and academic commentary on the age referred to in the title reveals that it was anything but “dark”. The ironic thing is that that title is trying to be ironic but shows its ignorance in the attempt. Aye the site hath become a caricature of thyself.

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[[[citations needed]]]

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is its refusal to acknowledge multiple schools of scholarship with regards to societal mores in 8th-century Europe. In this essay I will

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After all, buying into misconceptions and ignoring scholarly literature is exactly what these people are all about

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Other studies and academic discussion say that

Sixth-Century Misery Tied to Not One, But Two, Volcanic Eruptions

In the summer of A.D. 536, a mysterious cloud appeared over the Mediterranean basin. “The sun gave forth its light without brightness,” wrote the Byzantine historian Procopius, “and it seemed exceedingly like the sun in eclipse, for the beams it shed were not clear.” In the wake of the cloud's appearance, local climate cooled for more than a decade. Crops failed, and there was widespread famine. From 541 to 542, a pandemic known as the Plague of Justinian swept through the Eastern Roman Empire.

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personally are hilarious.

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I resemble that remark. Now that’s comedy.

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For making sure that I got my vaccinations, including the ones that came out after my brother had measles and mumps.

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are just buying into Russian propaganda: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-ant...

Imagine you want to weaken your enemy, and you find a way to convince the dumbest ones to actually choose to risk their kid's lives. What a win for Putin!

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holy shit. I read a first hand anecdote from a resident about his supervising physician - that when confronted with a particularly "big pharma poisoning our kids" level conspiracy anti-vax parent, the doctor would calmly suggest it was a russian conspiracy to hurt american kids.... as a dirty ploy to convince them.

how depressing that it's actually true

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Not to sound racist, but this is the only sort of crap that white American people with nothing better to do think up.

Why not take a trip to Africa, or the third world parts of Asia, and tell these folks they don't need vaccines.

How about this - stop getting your news from blogs and conspiracy sites. You know that the aluminum in a vaccine isn't the same as the one in like, Reynolds wrap, right?

Before you can get married in a catholic church you need to promise to raise your kids catholic, how about if you want to have your kid in a hospital, you need to promise to vaccinate them? Otherwise go give birth like a cow in the pasture.

Grow up Karen and get a job and stay away from any 'news' site that has the words 'Natural' or 'Holistic' in the URL.

When your kid is blind or sterile from measles, tell me again how 'some kids just need diseases' - you should be locked up and have your children taken away.

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You might want to Google "polio vaccine rejection."

Now, in at least one place, Pakistan, it's possibly due to fears that the doctors are working for the CIA (because, basically, that's what happened as we closed in on bin Laden), but in other places there are other reasons.

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Wait, aren't we getting our news from this blog?

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turn on lights, pour coffee, check work email, visit uhub to see what's going on in the world. a little channel four at home for main headlines, weather, and T situation. otherwise, this is the news for me.

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Good time for a pox party.

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Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine Preventable Infections:

Prior to the introduction of varicella vaccination, the fatality rates for varicella were approximately 1 per 100,000 cases among children 1-14 years of age

Complication rates are higher among children with immune disorders and childhood cancers.

Immunocompromised persons have a high risk of disseminated disease (up to 36% in one report). These persons may have multiple organ system involvement, and the disease may become fulminant and hemorrhagic. The most frequent complications in immunocompromised persons are pneumonia and encephalitis. Children with HIV infection are at increased risk for morbidity from varicella and herpes zoster.

Also, remember to keep women about to give birth and newborns away from your party of kids with morons for parents:

The onset of maternal varicella from 5 days before to 2 days after delivery may result in overwhelming infection of the neonate and a fatality rate as high as 30%.

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The total number of people receiving vaccines each year is so huge -- most of the population, I assume, in other words a couple hundred million people in this country alone -- that by sheer chance, some of them will have horrible things happen to them (including various illnesses) shortly after getting the vaccine.

I knew someone who got a flu shot, and an hour later he fell off a ladder! Obviously flu vaccines cause ladder accidents!

It's not even a case of "correlation is not causation", because that's not even correlation. It's mere happenstance.

Morons.

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I got a flu shot and my father died a few hours later. Think how DANGEROUS that is- the flu shot killed a 82 year old man with a history of heart disease who was in a different state!

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I know someone who once got a flu shot, and later won the lottery. Now how can you pass up a chance like that?

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We found a witch! May we burn her?

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No, this is Boston. You may dunks her.

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She's a witch. If she sinks, she's not.

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What clean leeches cost these days. Just get the vaccination.

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My body, my choice...except for vaccines. The left never ceases to amaze. If it wasn't for double standards, they'd have no standards at all.

On the vaccine concerns, the sharp increase in awareness of autism is certainly a reasonable cause for people to look for a correlation. This is especially true when parents first notice possible autism soon after vaccinations. To say "experts" say there's never a correlation is dubious at best. After all, it was "experts" at the Lancet medical journal who, in 1999 predicted, "eight million people would die by 2020" due to Climate Change then branded Global Warming.

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We found the person who has been brain damaged by vaccine preventable diseases!

Not to mention that same person is at risk of vaccine preventable diseases due to age.

Either that, or just another talking points spewer who thinks himself clever for putting two different right wing nonsense talking points TOGETHER!

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That mantra generally refers to abortion. Which makes sense. How does my abortion affect you or your kids, or the population in general? It doesn't. Unlike vaccines.

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During the late 90's, Lancet went through a stage when it actively encouraged controversial studies. Otherwise Dr. Wakefield's small and badly designed study, the source of the idea that autism and the MMR vaccine were connected, would probably never have been published. No doubt that climate change study was in the same group.

Do you ever check this stuff out on the internet? Have you even looked at the other replies in this blog? I've found an article, published by a reputable journal, that explains things better than I could.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219

Please take a look and see what you think. And remember, correlation does not equal causation!

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Not in the US, but look at climate-change across the globe and its easily that in a 20 year period. Famine, fires, wars sparked by drought migrations, extensive salination of farmland in places like Bangladesh, flooding, typhoons/hurricanes ... http://www.impactlab.org/news-insights/valuing-climate-change-mortality/

PS: autism cannot be caused by vaccines - studies have found telltale changes in utero that show parallel development compared to neurotypical children.

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YES!!! Thank you!!! Science, please.

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The left never ceases to amaze.

Says the resident standard-bearer of the anti-science faction., You're the antediluvian uncle who finally got disinvited from dinner last Thanksgiving, aren't you?

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Your body, your choice, yes. Not "my five-year-old's body, my choice," or "my teenager's body, my choice."

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...that you let your 5 year old make decisions about their body? or your teenager? I'm going to guess that you don't. Or if you do, you better not give your teenager a problem with they shave their head, pierce their nose or tattoo their face.

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The decision in this case is a parent denying their child a vaccine. Try to stay on topic.

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Expert troll job. You are so good at pretending to be a moronic republican who is wrong about everything.

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These people still have freedom of choice. The choice to move away or give up public schooling and other services. Just because you don't like your choices doesn't mean you don't got 'em.

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Dont forget to get your shingle shot too!

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IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5GTE6tCEAAFH6R?format=jpg&name=medium)

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