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Forest Hills residents and cemetery battle
By adamg on Mon, 08/26/2024 - 9:57am
The Jamaica Plain Gazette reports on the simmering battles between the cemetery, which has been limiting public access in recent years and which is now chopping down noticeable numbers of trees, and nearby residents, who note the cemetery, like the less combative Mount Auburn in Cambridge, was started as a "rural garden cemetery" that was both a burial ground and public park. City Councilor Ben Weber is now involved.
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Comments
Who would bring a dog to a
Who would bring a dog to a cemetery?
As someone who regulars the soul-affirming Mt. Auburn and has family interred in other cemeteries I would never bring a dog to any cemetery.
There’s a difference between being an open and accessible space to stroll through and enjoy versus being a dog lot, or a biking and skating track and thoroughfare. Even using the cemetery for the utilitarian purpose of being a pedestrian cutshort (I don’t know if it is) is a bit morally questionable as it’s utilitarian and not for the purpose of absorbing the space.
Festivals “not profitable” says Ebenezer, but does it break even? If the cemetery is being used as a bike roadway, sidewalk and park, is it receiving the amount of funding that roadways, sidewalks and parks receive for use, maintenance and festivusals?
What’s up with cutting the trees and alleged spraying? Blight? Are lawns cheaper to maintain?
Profitable?
The lantern festival and the (not mentioned) Day of the Dead festival did not charge admission, so it makes no sense to talk about whether they were "profitable".
Biergarten?
Did the cemetery rep. mis-speak by saying “profitable?” Did they mean to of an offset to possible financial liabilities to remediating after large events? Could the tree-clearing be making way for a biergarten?
Devil Dogs and Jackals are permitted
in most cemeteries, at least after dark.
It's a Cemetery
Dogs, jogging and running, picnicking, and bicycles have always been prohibited in Mount Auburn Cemetery, making it a reliably tranquil, quiet place. First and foremost, a cemetery is a burial ground, not a public park. Garden cemeteries are designed for grieving, the quiet enjoyment of nature, and contemplation. We have so few quiet green spaces now that I think it's excellent that Forest Hills has adopted this policy, which is pretty standard.
Picnics, free-roaming dogs, etc., can intrude on graveside services and visitors who are grieving for their loved ones. While the neighbors' recreational activities are curtailed, I hope they are generous enough to understand that the bereaved have priority in cemeteries, and that they are welcome to use the place freely for walking, thinking, and enjoying nature.
JP residents have alternatives for other activities. They can ride a bike (slowly) and walk dogs (on a leash) in the Arnold Arboretum, although they don't allow picnicking. For all of those things, there's Jamaica Pond and the rest of the Emerald Necklace.
I will be interested to hear what is going on with the trees. FH is an arboretum, and their trees are generally kept in great condition, so I'm not that alarmed. Perhaps they have removed diseased trees that can't be saved, such as elms, or trees that have become hazardous.
According to you
This particular facilty was supposed to be a park and cemetary.
My local cemetary allows cars to drive in it, so they have not been able to ban bikes with any credibility. People also walk dogs there. The dead don't get to tell the living what to do.
Well it’s the living who run
The cemetery, telling the brain dead, not to do x, y and z.
Dogs and their shit don’t belong in a cemetery. I know it must be hard to heard no, but grown up. Your bratty entitlement is showing.
No dogs or loud recreation
I think bikes and joggers are fine, so long as the cemetery is allowing cars to drive through it. I might want to bike to visit my ancestor's grave stone, that should be allowed. But dogs and other noisy, rambunctious behavior really should find other places to enjoy.
Please help me understand how
Please help me understand how "jogging and running" is not tranquil? Cars are permitted. Is a car more tranquil than a person jogging?
Modern Thinking
But this idea..
Is from modern thinking of what the use of a cemetery should be.
In the 1800s cemeteries *were* the parks people used for recreation. The thought process was you could bring happiness and joy to love one's buried there by having activity around them. Think kids running and playing or a family enjoying a picnic near the site of someone they have lost. It wasn't seen as disrespectful to have people near graves.. in fact it was encouraged!
Only around the time when we started having separate public parks for this purpose is when we decided that cemeteries should be quiet spaces for the grieving.
I agree about the off-leash dogs, I don't think a cemetery is the right place for that...
The disrespectful act of
The disrespectful act of allowing even a leashed dog’s defecating and urinating in a graveyard is not undone by picking it up.
Animals
The oddness of refusing dogs when animals of all kinds live in the cemetery - and presumably go to the bathroom - is so odd to me! I understand the need to be respectful of the graves while walking a dog, but the wild animals I'm sure don't care and are not refused entry!
Wait. They were?
Wait. They were?
And we have public parks now . . .
. . . so private garden cemeteries don't need to fulfill those purposes. The people who are biking, running, jogging, exercising their dogs, and picnicking aren't likely to be doing it on their family's plot as a way to remember their dead relatives.
It's true that cemeteries were used for picnicking long ago, although plenty of people disapproved, finding it disrespectful. Cemeteries were acceptable places for young people to gather to flirt, etc. But it's also true that cemeteries had lots of litter and trash back then.
Even dogs on leashes pee on tombstones.
Definitely modern thinking
The practice of picnics in cemeteries was very popular in the 1800s but began to wane in the 1920s according to this Atlas Obscura article.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/picnic-in-cemeteries-america
Surprisingly, it may have also even been practiced up to 1950s according to the first picture in the posted article.
Picnics in Cemetaries
They were a custom in garden cemeteries. I agree with the commenter that cemeteries as places solely for grieving is a modern concept.
Cemeteries can and should be places to remember people. The current Forest Hills management is putting nails into the coffin for burying the idea of supporting the living in remembering the dead.
The irony of being tax-exempt and blocking the public
A tax-exempt entity contributing nothing to the greater good of the community, also limits its use as a public space.
They cancel events due to the "lack of profitability".
What a wild, un-neighborly way to be.
The first time I visited was during COVID, I thought I'd run over there. Saw the sign, had to turn around and run elsewhere.
So I've never visited at all.
Which is clearly, what the management wants. They want the benefits of being non-profit, and none of the negatives of the community.
Only in JP
Some of the biggest parks in the city and all the people who have moved in want to keep suburbanizing it. Terraforming like the burb where they grew up.
The best was the people who wanted to have the Poor Claire's site become a park because, you know, adding 3+ acres of land to a 281-acre park will tip the balance in the climate crisis.
Next we have the people who want the Shattuck removed so the clients can go....somewhere else?
Now we have people who think the Forest Hills Cemetery is theirs and doesn't belong to the owners of the cemetery.
That's rich.
NIMBYJP - Two faced ingrates on display in full force.
As a neighbor
As a neighbor of the Poor Clare 2.9 acre site, I never heard that it should become a park. It was hoped by some that the Arnold Arboretum would buy the site for offices and possible housing for their internship programs. Or that a non-profit would buy it for senior housing.
Alas the price tag was too high for the Arboretum to purchase it--the Arboretum is self-supporting and does not get funding from Harvard. But that is a whole other topic.
Do not assume that all the residents of JP align monolithically with your stereotype.
Reveals ignorance of the importance of parks
Parks, especially the largest, are vital to the social and mental health of human beings and the well being of the city's ecosystem. Adding to parks adds to health. Even if it is only 1 acre. Dismissing that idea is to claim wisdom about what is sufficient to meets the needs of human beings in the context of park like spaces. That is arrogance.
Save Me From You
Yes, Parks are great but....
Frankin Park - 485 Acres (460 Acres is a Square Mile).
Arboretum - 291 Acres.
Larz Anderson (Close enough to JP) - 64 Acres.
Forest Hills Cemetery - 275 Acres.
Also - Jamaica Pond, Allendale Farm, St. Michael's Cemetery, The Trustees land on the Former Boston State Hospital.
I think that you are missing the point. There is an orgy of open space for the JPNIMBY area. Respect the cemetery.
If all that open space doesn't work for you, move to Petersham.
640 acres is 1 square mile
640 acres is 1 square mile
Yup
On that point you are correct.
Nevertheless, as compared to other neighborhoods, JP has a lot of greenspace.
Dogs
I don't see a problem with dogs in cemeteries, as long as they are always fully leashed (never running loose) and the dog owner picks up any mess that the dog makes. Pretty much the same as how dogs should behave in any public park.
(Not A Public Park)
FYI
I didn't say it was
That is not a correct reading of my last sentence.
Worry about other things...
Ben Weber should be looking at unregistered motorbikes, un licensed drivers, that rip around other neighborhood spots that are public safety threats and noise nightmares.....
There are 168 hours in a week
Do you really think Ben Weber is spending every last one of those on the Forest Hills Cemetery situation? Is it possible he's able to manage his time and deal with more than one issue in a week? Have you made like the Forest Hills people and contacted him with your concerns?
Again, ignorance revealed
Cemeteries such as Forest Hills and Mt. Auburn, and related cemeteries in other major urban areas, were designed to function as public parks. In practice, not in name, they were and should continue to be public parks. Families actually had picnics at the gravesites of deceased relatives.
What do picnics by families mean? The horror of children playing (pass me the smelling salts).
Like any park there will be rules of what is appropriate behavior. Public parks include rules that dogs must be leashed. A reasonable rule for any location.
Look at the oldest cemeteries such as those downtown. God forbid they actually are sites for tourists. Worse, there are actors pretending to be people who lived in the era. Again, pass the smelling salts. The revelation of reality is about to make me faint.
try running the title
and see what rights and restrictions you don't find
How do you clean up pee?
Dogs in cemeteries = really bad idea.
You don’t pick it up. You
You don’t pick it up. You water the area (or nature waters) and it turns into fertilizer.
What do you think all the unleashes wildlife is doing?
Obviously, dog owners do not pick up all messes
The evidence is seen on sidewalks and in parks. You could say it's omnipresent.
Same thing with unleashed dogs in areas where leashing is mandated.
Only possible solution to prevent it is a blanket ban on dogs, barring enactment of public floggings of offenders or one year in South Bay to serve as an effective deterrent.
Even after "pick up" there is a residue of feces. Not good if you want to sit down and contemplate Anne Sexton's grave. Dogs shitting on graves is a true profanity.
I suspect this controversy is 99% entitled dog owners - bitching.
I mean, cemeteries are
I mean, cemeteries are supposed to be a celebration of life so having stuff go on among the buried isn't a bad thing.
Maybe we drop the puritan buckle hats once in a while?
Cemeteries
Are a waste of space.