Boston councilors to push for school-bus cameras to catch careening Massholes

None of us would be here.

Humans don't survive alone. Individuality worship is a recent pathology.

Because it's guaranteed that everyone who gets a camera ticket, or faces other negative effects of cameras, was doing something that significantly increased the chances of killing someone else...

It’s not that easy. People in NYC report stuff like getting a ticket because a tractor trailer was parked blocking the school zone speed limit sign, so they didn’t know the speed limit dropped.

Traffic authorities around here like to install lights that nobody can understand, like the one in Inman Square which is always red but sometimes also displays turn arrows, in an attempt to indicate you can’t go straight. Except it does something different outside rush hour. There are numerous complaints from neighbors about constant honking when drivers can’t figure out when it’s their turn to go, but nothing has changed.

Or the light at Beacon and Washington which was recently redesigned to add a left turn trap, which is highly dangerous, and explicitly forbidden without a warning sign.

I won’t even bother with any examples in Boston, since there are too many to list because BTD traffic engineering is nonexistent.

If cities can’t install lights that the public can understand, and can’t follow the law with their designs, I don’t trust them to do photo enforcement.

Ok, please explain how the lights are controlled in Massachusetts, and what safeguards there are for informing drivers exactly when the transition from yellow to red lights will occur.

You're the one who said there's flashing red lights before the door opens.

A driver is able to put on the flashing yellows in advance. But there's nothing to stop them from opening the door, thereby activating the flashing reds, if they don't activate the yellows first. And if they do, there's no guarantee of how long or short the yellows will last before the door opens.

As for your claim that I shouldn't have passed my driving test, I'm well aware of the meaning and functioning of school bus lights. This is plainly obvious from what I wrote.

Regarding what the law and MA driver's manual say about what car drivers must do when there are yellow flashing lights: <b>they don't say anything:</b>

"When approaching a vehicle which displays a sign bearing the words ''SCHOOL BUS'' and which is equipped with front and rear alternating flashing red signal lamps which are flashing, as provided in section seven B, and which has been stopped to allow pupils to alight from or board the same, a person operating a motor vehicle or trackless trolley shall, except when approaching from the opposite direction on a divided highway, bring his vehicle or trackless trolley to a full stop before reaching said school bus and shall not thereafter proceed until the warning signals are deactivated, unless directed to the contrary by a police officer duly authorized to control the movement of traffic."

"Yellow school buses have flashing red lights and stop signs that fold out from the driver’s side. School pupil transport vehicles, like vans, station wagons, or family sedans, have flashing red lights and SCHOOL BUS signs on top. Drivers use these warning signals when letting pupils on and off.
...
If a school bus or a school pupil transport vehicle has its lights flashing and a stop sign extended, you must stop. It is the law. It does not matter which side of the road you are traveling on. Remain stopped until the lights stop flashing or the stop sign folds back."

Nope, nothing about yellow lights.

There is a requirement for buses to have lights, and for bus drivers (implied by passive voice wording) to use them:

"School buses...shall be equipped with...alternating flashing amber signal lamps...which shall be activated when said bus is approaching a stop to load or discharge school pupils." But no requirements on how long they should flash. And the law authorizing cameras doesn't require the ticket to include proof that the bus driver put on the yellows properly.

One more detail I'm aware of which you probably aren't: while MA does not require stopping for a stopped school bus on the other side of a divided highway, some states do require it, including a certain large state to our south and west.

Nope, I'm one of those drivers who stops for stopped school buses if at all possible, including in situations where nobody else is doing it. My concern is the corner case situations where it isn't possible, or even reasonable or desirable for children's safety.