The tip-off should have been all the Pabst Blue Ribbon and Colt 45 the dude was buying
A Readville convenience store that had its liquor license suspended last year for selling to minors is in trouble again after a Curry College police officer picking up some sandwiches noticed a Curry sticker on the SUV of a young guy loading up on cheap beer.
The Boston Licensing Board decides Thursday what to do about a Jan. 23 incident at Green Gardens Liquor and Deli, 35 W. Milton St., in which some underage Curry students borrowed a fellow student's Jeep for a packie run. Options range from warning the store to be more careful to suspending its license for several days to revoking it outright.
A policce officer at the Milton college told the board today he was at the store, about a mile from campus, around 6 p.m. to pick up some dinner for himself and fellow officers. He said that while waiting for his order, he noticed a young guy, whom he believed to be a Curry student, "purchasing a large quantity of alcohol" - so much he had to make multiple trips to his vehicle. He went outside, noticed a Curry parking sticker on the car and followed it back to campus. Apparently aware he was being tailed, the student didn't turn into the campus. However, the student was apparently unaware that campus police have radios, so about 10 minutes later, campus cops located the car on the other side of campus.
The officer said that among the items purchased were several packs of Pabst Blue Ribbon, Keystone Light and Miller beer, along with some Colt 45 malt liquor. While looking at the car, from which the students had fled, a student came out and confessed his role in the beer run - he'd been the driver, and gave up the name of the guy who actually bought the beer. A couple days later, that student, 19, turned himself into campus police - and handed over his older brother's New Hampshire ID, which he'd used to make the purchase.
A store worker said the kid looked like the photo on the ID, but that in response to the incident, the store now requires two forms of ID from anybody who appears to be under 30.
Not good enough, board Chairman Daniel Pokaski replied. No store should accept out-of-state ID, only Massachusetts licenses or IDs, US passports or miltary papers, he said. An out-of-state ID "doesn't hold you harmless" in such cases, he said, adding the worker should have been more inquisitive about the large purchase of cheap beer.
"These kids aren't stupid," he said, moving one hand as if it were talking. "There's talk and these kids know where to go because it's easy to get alcohol."
He warned the worker, whose family owns the store, that if this keeps up, "you're going to lose your business, your family is not going to have a business, you understand?"
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Comments
Pokaski
This guy is all over the place. I now think every 5th UHUB article should have a Pokaski reference in it.
I wonder what the guys take on the Liberty Mutual fireworks is?
glad we busted those 19year
glad we busted those 19year olds!! our streets are safer now!
Mass ID's only?
It doesn't seem like answer is for businesses to accept only Massachusetts ID's or licenses. Is that even legal? It's incredible that the liquor board chairman would encourage this kind of discrimination.
I'm all for stores being vigilant or requiring two forms of ID, but without the consequences of needlessly hassling or turning away perfectly law-abiding customers from other states.
(And I know campus police probably aren't busy with homicide investigations, but there must be better uses of an officer's time than following around students based on a hunch that they might be underage.)
What else is the cop going to do?
It's not like he went out of his way to trail him - he was heading back to Curry, anyway, with all those sandwiches for dinner. And like the law against minors drinking or not, it is the law; what's the guy supposed to do, ignore it? When the possible violation is right in front of his face?
Massachusetts law says that
Massachusetts law says that store owners can be punished for selling to minors, unless they were shown a Mass ID, US or foreign passport, or military ID. The law does not say that stores have to refuse out-of-state IDs, but it certainly encourages them to do so.
So if the underage buyer had used someone else's Mass ID, instead of a NH ID, the store owner would be off the hook.
It's a ridiculous law, and in my opinion it's unconstitutional.
And here's a cite:
And here's a cite: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/138-34b.htm
(Note to Boston Licensing Board chairman Pokaski: Assuming the article quoted you correctly, you need to brush up on the law. Foreign passports are covered as well.)
That's actually what the law
That's actually what the law says, though. Under Mass. Gen. Laws Chapter 138, Section 34B, second paragraph, "Any licensee, or agent or employee thereof, under this chapter who reasonably relies on such a liquor purchase identification card [described in the firsty paragraph of Section 34B] or motor vehicle license issued pursuant to section eight of chapter ninety, or on a valid passport issued by the United States government, or by the government, recognized by the United States government, of a foreign country, or a valid United States issued military identification card, for proof of a person’s identity and age shall not suffer any modification, suspension, revocation or cancellation of such license, nor shall he suffer any criminal liability, for delivering or selling alcohol or alcoholic beverages to a person under twenty-one years of age." The statute only provides a defense if the seller relies on a Massachusetts license or liquor ID card, not an out-of-state license or card.
"The statute only provides a
"The statute only provides a defense if the seller relies on a Massachusetts license or liquor ID card, not an out-of-state license or card."
Or a military ID, U.S. passport, or foreign passport.
And in my opinion, this law is unconstitutional, as well as a pain in the ass for storeowners and customers alike.
Probably for beer chess
Pabst Blue Ribbon? Must be some college kids playing beer chess:
Stupid Kid. Cops had nothing
Stupid Kid.
Cops had nothing on him and he confesses, even after they seemingly overstepped.
This wouldn't have happened
This wouldn't have happened under the previous ownership - and they made the biggest/best subs in the city.
I used to be able to get
I used to be able to get another lunch or two out of one of their subs.
The subs weren't as good once they moved to West Milton St. and got a liquor license, and I think I've only been there a couple of times after the Asian family bought the business.
Now... does anyone remember the original D'Angelo's location and what it was called?
no out-of-state love
"No store should accept out-of-state ID, only Massachusetts licenses or IDs, US passports or miltary papers."
Say good-bye to a large fraction of alcohol sales. As an out-of-stater I do not carry my passport with me in Boston, ever. Why now? We live in America and drivers' licenses serve as a main form of identification! Shaws at Copley no longer accepts out-of-state ids for customers of a certain age (under 30?) because they charged selling to minors a few years ago. Sorry Shaws and other places that were caught selling to minors and now require passports, I will purchase alcohol and liquor elsewhere.
It gets worse....
As someone who doesn't drive, I know that a lot of liquor stores in MA don't even accept in-state IDs. You either need the special liquor ID or a passport. Since I would have needed to go to the RMV to get a liquor ID, but could renew my regular state ID online, I am stuck bringing my passport to liquor stores...
The state ID vs Liquor ID is
The state ID vs Liquor ID is the biggest scam in the state. Pay another $10 to get the word "liquor" added to your ID. Yeah, that certainly prevent fraud. Of course, when you use your "liquor id" in other states, they look at you like "WTF is this shit, liquor id? must be a joke".
Now, someone please explain to me the difference between using your older brothers NH ID and using your older brothers Mass ID. How is the fact that it's a Mass ID make it more secure?
Once again Polaski is full of shit, although this time he's backed up by a law that's also full of shit. To his credit, he's even worse off than the law because he said "US Passport" and not "any passport".
Difference between liquor ID and MA ID
It is basically that only MA residents can get the MA ID, but anyone can get a liquor ID (over 21 w/ Social security number and not have a MA license). So if you are here from out of state long term (student, work, don't want to drive) and want to drink, you can get a liquor ID.
One of the benefits of the liquor IDs is that bars in MA can order a scanner from the registry that can scan instate IDs and licenses. Checking out of state IDs is just a little harder to detect frauds and counterfits.
But I have an instate ID
And many liquor stores still do not accept it. Luckily, the large majority of bars do. Is it harder to check the veracity of a non-driver ID than a driver's license? I don't get it.
I will purchase alcohol and
Oh, well then, that changes everything.
"Your family is going to lose your business"
That's legitimately scary. A city employee made a Mafiaesque threat to a business owner on the record.
Seriously, somebody feed this guy an asbestos sandwich.
Technically, a state employee, I think
One of the holdovers from the days when the Brahmins running Beacon Hill didn't trust the Irish in City Hall and so, uniquely to Boston, took away their power to regulate liquor licenses. Yes, the board meets in City Hall and their stationery has the city seal on it, but if you want to get on the board, you'd go to Deval Patrick, not Tom Menino.
In this particular case, I don't think Pokaski was making a Godfatherish warning so much as looking at the place's record (the other state agency that regulates liquor licenses in Boston - the ABCC - suspended its liquor license for some period last year over the same exact issue) and warning them what would happen if they continued down this path. Although the board has revoked liquor licenses in the past, I don't recall them doing so in the several months I've been going to their hearings (with the caveat I've missed a few).
Ah, good ole' racism
Another great Boston tradition.
At least nobody from the ABCC makes racist comments on the record.
Do we know that?
When's the last time anybody read a published report based on an ABCC hearing?
About 2 weeks ago when
About 2 weeks ago when Pokaski made his racist statement about the pizza places.
That was the licensing board, too
Report from that hearing.
I've never actually been to an ABCC hearing, there are only so many hearings I can get to, and I go to the licensing board on the assumption that most of the stuff that would wind up at the ABCC from Boston consists of appeals from licensing-board hearings, anyway. I don't recall ever reading a Globe or Herald story by a reporter at an ABCC hearing.
Oh. Right. I misread your
Oh. Right. I misread your post (Well, actually, I just conflated the two, after skimming over the other post referring to the ABCC).
yeah, it's a weird split...
the licensing board is appointed by the governor, and accountable to the state (not the city), but it's totally paid for by the city. pokaski appears on the city of boston payroll (makes $100k), but apparently doesn't directly report to the city of boston.
Oh
And he also works about 12 hours a week for that $100k.
Out of State IDs
So this guy used his brother's NH license- how is requiring only in state ID's going to stop in-state kids from using their older siblings in-state Ids? Are Massachusetts licenses that high tech that there is no way you can use a relatives and pass as them?
I guess you can stop out of state kids from using another license, but that's not going to stop the problem.
Requiring in-state ID
Requiring in-state ID standardizes the job for store workers. College kids from out of state show up with their home-town library card and try to pass it off as ID. This way, store workers are trained what to look for, and can be held accountable. Every solution doesn't have to be perfect - they only need to help.
out of state ID's not allowed?
So, if I'm a 25 year old business man at a convention in Boston, I could be refused alcohol even if I have a valid out of state driver's license? Does Massachusetts really want to piss off tourists that much?
"Welcome to Massachusetts, out of state visitors ... sorry, no drinking allowed unless you brought your passport."
Whatever happened to "full faith and credit"?
If an out-of-state license is valid proof of age and identity in one's home state, wouldn't the Constitution require they be honored in other states?
It's not really proof of age and identity though.
That's why they have the problem in the first place. When a police officer stops someone with an out of state license, they can check with that states registry to verify many factors regarding the license. (history, SS#, addresses, past addresses, criminal history).
Liquor store owners do not have that ability to check out of state licenses and can pretty much just sell beer to anyone with an out of state license. Thats the theory anyway.
Why would an out of state license....
...be any more likely to be phony than an in-state one?
I would think a store owner should be off the hook if the person has a license with a photo -- and that photo appears to match the person offering it as proof of age and identity.
one of the issues...
... is that people are usually less familiar with out of state licenses. i can spot a fake massachusetts license much faster than i can from, say, Idaho. mainly because i have no idea what the Idaho license really looks like.
for example, in college, when i was dating a guy from hawaii, we went to buy beer one night and the shop owner said they never knew that gay citizens had their own special license (because of the rainbow on the hawaii license). they sold him beer anyway. they had no idea what his license even should have looked like.
The stores would love to be off the hook.
But stores are allowed to have Massachusetts registry hook up machines which can read MA licenses. They cannot have out of state ones.
Also what Bandit said. MA is one of the harder licenses to copy and/or alter.
Update: Two-day suspension ordered
The Licensing Board voted today to suspend the store's liquor license for two days as punishment for the incident. The board did not set a specific date; the store can appeal to the Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission (which suspended its license for three days last year for a similar offense).