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City: People using outlying neighborhoods as alternatives to downtown garages
By adamg on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 4:21pm
Boston Transportation Commissioner Tom Tinlin wants to increase the cost of parking violations outside Boston Proper to reduce the number of motorists he says now tie up neighborhood parking spaces all day because current tickets cost less than a day in a downtown garage.
Tinlin wants to increase the price of a parking violation outside the city core from $15 to $25. He told a City Council committee today that the current $15 fine "would be the cheapest garage in the city of Boston." Parking tickets downtown and in nearby areas, such as the North End, would not increase
He said an increase would raise an extra $600,000 a year, based on the number of tickets issued last year, but that the goal is to change driver behavior, not raise more money.
Councilor Charles Yancey (Dorchester) said the city should really wait to increase fines until the economy improves and said it should do something about what he said was a large number of city and state police cars illegally parked in the area around Dorchester District Court.
Tinlin said the issue is that "people are gaming the system" by parking where fines are lower than garage rates and that his staff would look into the court-area issue.
He added that the new fees could go into effect sometime next month, after neighborhoods are notified.
Neighborhoods:
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Comments
What about two-tier system
I wasn't aware until yesterday that the city has a two-tier violation system whereby fines are higher in the downtown Boston neighborhoods than in the outer neighborhoods.
I had never heard of this. Is it true?
Can't find anything on the web.
It is true
Only for 2-hour parking zones. There is a "Zone B" which is anything west of Mass Ave. Of course, this didnt stop them from assessing me the higher fine in Brighton 2 years ago. I didnt feel like fighting it was worth my energy. I wonder how often that happens.
Fines
http://www.cityofboston.gov/Parking/fines.asp
What the hell is "Boston Proper"?
Most cities seem to use the word "proper" to denote municipal boundaries. In Boston this appears to mean arbitrary downtown neighborhoods.
You got it
It's basically "original" Boston, along with some neighboring landfilled areas, so downtown, Beacon Hill, the North End. Not sure about Chinatown (I'm betting yes) or Back Bay.
No one uses "Boston Proper"
Rob, I don't know of anyone else who uses "Boston Proper" besides me.
For my purposes, I include the West End, North End, Waterfront, Seaport District, Chinatown, Midtown, Beacon Hill, Back Bay, South End, and The Fenway.
I'd use "Downtown Boston" But to many this means the financial district, Downtown Crossing shopping district, or both.
Shawmut
It is anything on the Shawmut Peninsula, which basically includes all land downtown, including wharfed land, that doesn't sit on fill (unless, of course, it was first wharfed). That explains it, right? Its essentially everything people think of as "downtown" but does not include the Back Bay (fill) or any part of the South End (fill) that some people would argue is downtown.
Ever heard of the free market?
Seriously, is everybody in this city stupid? BUILD MORE GARAGES. Then the prices will come down.
Is there still an EPA limit downtown?
For the longest time, the EPA wouldn't allow new garages downtown because of air-pollution issues. Is that still in effect?
That still exists?
Fine...move some downtown business into the neighborhoods. Does everybody really need to be down there? Can we put some Fidelity or State Street people in West Roxbury? Or better yet, have them work in their homes?
It's called sprawl
It worked out really, really, really well for everyone.
Will has so quickly covered
Will has so quickly covered the 1920's-1950's here, looking forward to the rest of the history lesson
Fidelity already moves a lot farther away
When Fidelity moves people, they don't stop at West Roxbury...they move them clear out of the state, thus doing their part to help the parking problem in town.
does the T go to West
does the T go to West Roxbury?
If by "T" you mean "commuter rail"
Then, yes, the T goes to West Roxbury - it has three commuter-rail stops in the span of roughly 1 1/2 miles on the Needham Line.
Good Question
The EPA mandated cap is still in effect. However, whether the garrages that continue to be built under new buildings are really being counted against the parking bank (the set number of spaces allowed by the EPA from which spaced may be taken or into which spaces may be deposited when they are eliminated) is anyone's guess. I have a hard time believing that the 10 billion cars that are vallet parked in the State Street garage every morning would have fit into the city owned garrage that the State Street Financial Center demolished/sits on top of, or that the developer counted them in the plans.
As for the comment about making parking cheaper - the whole POINT is to make it more expensive so people will have an incentive to take the T. If you want build cheap parking, either get in a time machine and go back to the 1950s when they were tearing half the city down to build garrages or move to a part of the country where it is still the 1950s.
There is a parking freeze
There is a parking freeze since 1960s set by EPA in Boston Proper. New builings can have parking built related directing to their buildings, however public parking is in the parking freeze. There is a parking bank that a developer can tap into, however, there is no new parking spaces presently available in the parking bank. Most neighborhoods have access to public transporation and commuter rail. People should take public transportation, carpooling etc instead of driving into Boston if they can.
Well, in order to have a
Well, in order to have a decent shot at distinguishing between people who do this, and people who get ticketed more 'legitimately,' why not only raise fines on weekdays, during roughly business hours (say, 9-6), and only apply them for people who don't have a neighborhood parking sticker for the neighborhood they're ticketed in?
police parking
have any of you ever seen the parking situation outside of the police headquarters near ruggles? it's right next to a major transportation hub (commuter rail, train, bus, bike path) but the majority of the people drive and park illegally on the street- and of course are never ticketed. they also park for free in the lot across the street- in a lot that is NOT owned by the police station. its absurd.
Within Boston Proper: There is no "downtown"
There is no such place as "downtown" Boston, the ridiculous "Downtown Crossing" notwithstanding.
There is the Financial District, as JohnAKeith points out. And, the Back Bay, and Beacon Hill, and the flat of Beacon Hill, and South Bay, and Chinatown, and the West End, but nothing one calls "downtown."
"Downtown" is as close to meaningless as it is possible to be in this parochial city.
Jonas Prang
Where do you go when you go to City Hall
Not trying to pick a bone or anything here, but when I take the Orange Line to State Street for my beloved licensing-board hearings at City Hall, I sure feel like I'm going "downtown," even if Petula Clark isn't there to greet me.
Agreed
Arguments over "THIS ISN'T DOWNTOWN! THIS IS THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT!" and such get so old after a while that I just shut out the pedantic warbling of those who have an insatiable desire to fight over neighborhoods. Yes, I understand cartography is important and the history of a city is good to know, but the concept of "Downtown" is well-igrained in the minds of many people. You're going to be hard pressed to find anybody who gives a damn if a place is really the Financial District, and hasn't been part of Beacon Hill proper since the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants in 1854. It's still "Downtown" because area near the geographic center of a dense urban area = Downtown.
City Hall. Or, Government Center, if you have to
adamg, say you're going to City Hall. Or, the courthouse. Or, the Kennedy Building. Or, what-have-you. Or, Government Center, if you have to.
Arborway, if your shutting out of the pedantic warbling produces posts like that, I'd say you need to try harder. Anyway, I'm having trouble figuring what "geographic center" means in your post.
Will LaTulippe, yes, everybody else in this city is stupid. Seriously.
So you get to be the boss?
"say you're going to City Hall. Or, the courthouse. Or, the Kennedy Building. Or, what-have-you. Or, Government Center, if you have to."
So you get to be the boss of how people announce their locations? People use "Downtown Boston." At home, I have an old book that give a map of all the roads in each city and one of pages is Downtown Boston. My parents use it sometimes to what part of Boston. My friends use it sometimes to indicated the general direction or location. If people want to use that instead of saying "Chinatown," "Government Center" or "Financial District" then I can understand enough of what they are trying to convey. It is an acceptable enough way to communicate semi-superset of the neighborhoods. If they or I want to use it, we gonnna use it dammit!
Why should the city discourage this?
If people park in outlying neighborhoods and take the T the rest of the way into the city, that's a GOOD thing. The city should keep whatever incentives are now in place to encourage this behavior.
Why the city shouldn't encourage this
Let's look at Roslindale Square. There are two parking lots there. One's a pay lot at the commuter-rail lot. The other is a free city lot a couple blocks away, intended for people shopping in the Square. If lots of cheap commuters fill up the free lot all day, there's no place for people shopping in Roslindale Square to park. If I just have to have Thai food and can't find a space in Roslindale Square, well, I'll just head over to West Roxbury.
In practical terms, a few months ago, the city put up "Two Hours Parking" signs in the free lot. No idea how well it's enforced.
On the Street Too
They don't just take up the 2-hour spots in the free lot, some of them park on the street in the Square rather than paying $4 dollars to park in the T lot because they figure if they only get a $15 ticket every once in a while it beats paying the $4 for parking every day (and the T DOES ticket). This may be a problem unique to Roslidnale but I somehow doubt it. People will go absurd lengths to try to game the system.
This is a problem in
This is a problem in Wollaston, where the side streets hardly ever got ticketed even though parking is posted limted to 1 and 2 hours. There was one guy who would leave his car next door. One day his alarm went off and wouldn't shut off, and when the neighbors complained about the noise, the cops had the car towed. The guy had the audacity to demand my neighbor pay the $100 towing fee. Yeh, keep dreaming buddy! That didn't stop him either. He just picked a new house to park in front of. <.<
It isn't a good thing when
It isn't a good thing when people in their own neighborhood can't park in the spaces because some cheapskate is gaming the system. It's bad in the Fenway when investors, whom don't live in the neighborhood, get and use 'resident' parking permits to grab all the resident parking only spaces during games. Parking permits really need to be restricted to full time residents only in addition to longer hours on meters and higher fines.
I'll tell you Ron.
I lived in an area once where I had overnight parking but did not have anywhere to park during the day so I had a resident permit to park on the street during the day. But all the commuters (who did not pay taxes in my town) came on in and parked on my street to take the train into work. Why can't they just park in their town and take the train from their town? I don't mind as much if you live in West Roxbury but drive to Jamaica Plain to take the train from Forest Hills, but if you live in Dover and drive into Jamaica Plain to park to take the train........I might have a problem with that.
I admit it, I once parked on a JP street to get into town
Normally, I'll park in one of the pay lots by the T stop, but both were full and so I drove up South Street until I found a side street, parked there, then took the 39 into town. I felt kind of funny about it, even though I knew I'd be back well before any residents with normal jobs.
Every once in a while I would park at the American Legion.
for quick trips into the city. I think Martinwood road had some spots that weren't checked either.
Where Do We Park?
I own a condo in Cleveland Circle where there are no options (no garages) for overnight parking. Since I don't own a car, I don't even get the benefit of an overnight guest parking pass (as a Zipcar member we really should be able to purchase these). So, when out-of-town guests spend the night they're out of luck for parking. I wish the mayor would better address our alternatives.
Aren't the meters right on Beacon St available?
Or up Chestnut Hill Ave.?
If its late enough you should be able to find some of those spots. I'm not positive about the rules there though either but I remember being able to park over there a long time ago.
Along the Reservoir
There is plenty of non-resident overnight parking down Beacon st along the Reservoir. There is also a few spots on Strathmore and Sutherland up past Cityside.
Non-resident parking spots on Comm Ave too
At least there used to be when I lived there a few years ago. That's where I had guests park.
parking
So what is the issue with trying to save money? Why cant we try to save money? Why not be inviting to those coming in from out of town. it is incredibly expensive to park in Boston. Taking the T from outside town is a disaster as well. But anywhere the authorities can see an opportunity to make more money....they will take it