The Globe reports Police Commissioner Ed Davis promises an investigation into whether the force used to subdue a teenager with outstanding warrants at his arrest at Roxbury Community College was justified after somebody posted this video (possibly NSFW):
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they beat up more than just kids..
By anon
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 4:47pm
...a Boston cop was just arrested for beating up their wife.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/201...
Police brutality is only
By CS
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 5:41pm
Police brutality is only allowed in the inner city, duh!... Thats why you didn't see this in the media. "Don't tase me bro" however...
The only thing offensive I
By Bri9801
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 5:44pm
The only thing offensive I see, well hear, in this video it the poor use of the English language on behalf of whoever is using the video camera
I'm no grammarian myself, but....
By pierce
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 5:54pm
I don't think you are using "on behalf of" properly, the "well hear" is kind of clumsy written as it is, and you typed "it" when you meant "is".
Beyond that, thanks for your thoughts Professor!
Ill tell you all what.
By Pete Nice
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 6:38pm
How many of you would consider the following.
I'll have a gun in my waist and lie face down on the ground. 5 of you of you can have guns, batons, and pepper spray. Then you can all try to handcuff me. How would you do it? What if I didn't put my hand out? What if I reached for my gun? What would you all do?
Remember that these cops don't know if the kid has a gun so they can't take a chance shooting an unarmed man.
You're starting to win me
By pierce
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 8:00pm
You're starting to win me over. Or at least, I'm beginning to see your point better.
I don't know police procedure for this specific situation aside from all those years watching COPS (which I wouldnt equate with actually having gone through police training, but I imagine is somewhat more accurate than purely fictional portrayals).
OK so we have asked you to lay down and you complied, but you will not pull out your hands, and while you have a gun in your waist we don't necessary know that, but we are cautious to the possibility but also don't want to shoot an unarmed man.
Of course I don't know how close we are to you when this happens, or the layout of the space. But with that as the situation, I would imagine we have guns drawn pointed at you from different vantage points, and you realize it. We scream to show your hands, but you don't. We scream ultimatums. We threaten to shoot. No hands. We have cops on different sides of you, slowly moving in toward you, guns pointed. As officers we are literally putting ourselves at risk, but we are armored to some degree, and know we are trained for this situation, while the suspect is not. At some point, we pounce. At the point several things could happen:
1. you pull out a gun, but we recognize the gun and kill you before you can hit one of us, an ideal situation and one we are trained for.
2. you pull out a gun, and shoot one of us before we can recognize the gun, but we know you can only get off one. you are killed.
3. you pull out your hands, we recognize this and don't shoot.
4. you keep your hands hidden. I have 8 other men crowded around you. they may not be able to pull your arms and hands out from under your body, but they sure as hell can keep you from bringing them out yourself. With some weight and muscles you can be fairly well restrained, if you are too wily: pepper spray. Taser. Cork bullets. Whatever, we have a whole arsenal of things to use, right? Why would we need to resort to thuggish tactics?
I mean I know that the taser and spray and cork bullets are potentially very dangerous themselves but there is logic and science to them, and an exercise of control, that isn't there with the thug punches and cheap-shots. And to be honest at that point you could even tell the dude look show us your goddam hands our we're going to taser you.
Also why don't cops in this day and age record their own situations like this? They can do it from cruisers, but why not have a protocol for it away from cruisers. If they are following their own rules it can only help them in court, and save us tons of money on investigations like this. It wouldn't be too tough for one of those cops standing around watching to be video (not audio) recording.
Yea here is the thing.
By Pete Nice
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 8:33pm
Well First off the Boston Police don't have tazers, so they couldn't be used here. Then there is the debate whether or not the tazer is more force than the punch. If you punched 1000 people and tazed 1000 people, more people would probably be hurt by the punching. But people do die from being tazed, but most of those people who do die actually die from heart attacks because they are on drugs anyway, as the majority of people who resist arrest are under the influence of some sort of drug as well. And drug users have weak hearts, and will die more often than the normal person when their body is put under the stress of fighting cops and resisting arrest.
You also find that many people who resist arrest don't listen to anything you say even if you have a gun pointed at them.
Plus when you finally get the guy, pointing the guns at them doesn't do much either. Then there is the actual point where they actually resist arrest. Guys who have illegal guns when confronted by the cops do many different things. Many just realize that giving up is the safest thing for them. Others may realize that they are facing a lot of jailtime, especially if they are someone who may already have a murder warrant on them. Then they are at the end of their rope. Who knows when the guys will shoot.
Watch this video for instance. (WARNING, this is VERY GRAPHIC).
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=783_1206201875
Here is a guy with a gun who shoots himself in a police station. He could have killed anyone within the time of this video. What if the cops searched him and the guy started to resist? At what point does this guy decide to kill himself or the police? These are the situations you need to avoid. You have to get the gun out of his hands, and the hand punching is often times the best way to do it.
And actually, from the same site, watch this video of a guy similar to the one from Boston here (also very graphic)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10dea450e3
This is what could have happend here. Do you take the chance?
Trust me, police work can be easy, but these situations are never easy to handle. You always prepare for the worst, and you have to go by how you were trained. In my opinion, the officers in this video did what they were trained to do within the law.
And this guy ran and was
By anon²
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 12:18am
And this guy ran and was taken down.
You don't get 7-8 officers on a guys back like that if he's complying.
Also keep in mind that they knew they were being
By Dan Farnkoff
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 3:17am
vdeotaped, at least after the first minute or so of the video. I often wonder what goes on that doesn't make it to Youtube.
Yo...what do you mean,yo?
By anonymous hyde ...
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 1:11am
Yo...what do you mean,yo?
bottom line.....
By anonanon
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 6:11pm
....this kid resisted arrest and needed to be detained. He has a history of crime and also fleeing a detention center. The only thing heard lately out of Roxbury/Dorchester/Mattapan has been the need for more cops in its neighborhoods to clean up the criminals. When these residents get the attention they then question the methods (which if dealing with a person resisting arrest are warranted). How exactly should police officers handle the escalating situations inside these communities? As a resident of Neponset I will gladly take back the cops we have lost patrolling our neighborhood due to the "out cry" in these other neighborhoods.
Not to derail, but...
By eeka
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 8:14pm
You haven't been doing much listening if "The only thing heard lately out of Roxbury/Dorchester/Mattapan has been the need for more cops in its neighborhoods to clean up the criminals." There are tons of great things going on in these neighborhoods every day.
No brutality on the face of
By anon
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 6:50pm
No brutality on the face of it. I heard about this before I saw the video. I was expecting much worse.
Nothing gratuitous or excessive stands out on first viewing.
As far as I'm concerned the cops were just trying to cuff the kid. If he had allowed that immediately then the incident would have been over.
Cops beating on disarmed, searched, and/or cuffed prisoners is a whole different ball game. They should do hard time.
Couple body blows and knees while making a difficult arrest don't seem excessive to me.
They could have tased him AND pepper sprayed him as far as I'm concerned.
Reasonable force to safely take him into custody.
He could have put his hands behind his back immediately and avoided all of this.
As far as I'm concerned the
By pierce
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 8:13pm
Where in the videotape do you see that?
Have any of you ever done jury duty? You assess based on evidence you are presented. This video only shows a cop punching a kid, who is trying like hell to get away from it.
At this point any of you who wasn't present at the scene but can vindicate the cop's actions--based on a notion that the kid was resisting arrest, wouldn't show his hands, or jumped up and did the macarena on the hood of a cruiser--is doing so purely on your own imagination of events not shown here.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily enough to convict the cop, either, but how anyone can look at this video and say "oh i think it's justified" is beyond me.
Jury Duty?
By John-W
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 9:21pm
I'm not a fan of people who abuse power and I'm no expert on police procedures (not even a novice), so I don't honestly know whether this case is extreme or not. I know I wouldn't want to be punched like that, but I don't want to be shot either.
I think an important point here is in your jury duty comment. Universal Hub is not a jury. None of us have been called as expert witnesses (good thing because none of us were there). The point of a message board like this is to have a conversation, voice an opinion. Opinions and cowboy hats, every asshole has one. Some people might have more insight than others. Some might feel more strongly than others. But given that none of us are appearing in the dock, swearing on a bible and stating our names for the record, well, everyone's opinion is sort of holding equal weight here for the most part.
But honestly, are people sitting down at the keyboard in a black robe and powdered wig ready to cast judgment on every friggin' thing, from incidents like this to tuna cans nailed to trees? A Rodney Kingesque video'd beat-down, the umpteenth delay on the T within a week, something kind of insightful observation (yet still Seinfeld-like in its picayune nature), well let's hear it. Maybe it'll start an interesting conversation.
But getting so riled up on every happening -- y'all gonna have ulcers.
I get it, it's a public
By pierce
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 8:40am
I get it, it's a public forum, and here we are presented with a fairly grave current event in our society, one that seems illustrative of one or more problems with our society. So we all chime in. I"m just saying that the humility and logic that is embedded into the jury process is a pretty good model for conducting oneself in a discussion about this. I'm not trying to mandate moral code or tell people they are doing it wrong, rather saying "hey this is how you would make a real decision about this".
Where did I see that? It was
By anon
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 12:44am
Where did I see that?
It was the gist of the entire video.
He wouldn't cuff up and got put into submission until he did.
No prisoner can be considered safe until he is cuffed AND searched.
Of course the cops could have taken the avant garde method and tickled him until he fessed up.
I know people that have been subjected to this- on the street and in prison.
Once the cops want to cuff you up you have 2 choices:
Comply or fight for your life trying to get away or inflict injury on your opponents.
No mercy or money for the kid.
Gist is not visible, that is
By pierce
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 8:37am
Gist is not visible, that is your imagination filling in gaps based on perceived norms.
That is just the difference between you and I it seems. In my life I try to make decisions based primarily on facts. If they tell an incomplete story, and it is acceptable for me to remain undecided (as it is here for me) then I wait for more evidence.
End result of a city on edge
By Brian Riccio
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 7:10pm
I saw nothing out of line here. Given the fact that 9 year olds carry MP5's in this city, the cops must have felt that they needed more of them to serve this warrant on a kid who apparently has a reputation for rabbiting. Obviously these cops weren't taking any chances and the kid obviously resisted. Which you just don't do, dawg.
That's criminal. An MP5 is
By anon
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 7:48pm
That's criminal. An MP5 is way too expensive to give to a 9 year-old.
Seriously
By eeka
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 10:44pm
I mean, a Mazda mp5 would be hard for a 9-year-old to drive very well anyway.
City-council president outraged
By adamg
Wed, 10/27/2010 - 11:05pm
Statement from Mike Ross:
Mike Ross is a ever
By anon²
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 12:21am
Mike Ross is a ever increasing douchebag
Mike Ross has turned into a Robot.
By Pete Nice
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 9:22am
I knew him since he was a kid. Very nice person but everything is political with this guy. He can't take a stand and talking to him now is like talking to a robot.
Which goes to show politics
By anon²
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 6:28pm
Which goes to show politics corrupts absolutely. If not in criminal terms, in soul.
Wait'll
By ijustworkhere
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 6:53am
he realizes the suspect was a college kid, on the fringe of Mission Hill. Medals all around.
Ayanna Pressley, too
By adamg
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 9:06am
She tweeted this morning:
That was nothing....who're
By anonymous hyde ...
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 1:08am
That was nothing....who're the babies whining? Why so many cops? Because the 'kid' was a menace and non-compliant with the laws of a civilized society. If a suspect refuses to comply with law enforcement, what should a cop do? Let him/her go? Tase him/her? Beat them with a club? Shoot them? He's not an angel, and will probably be a societal problem his entire life.
I grew up in the so-called ghetto and this is typical behavior; lot's of melo-drama, out of control, lack of discipline at home, in schools, general chaos, and of course non-stop violence. Many people, kids and adults, act like children and the cops, social services, the government are substitutes for a real, responsible mom and dad. It's pathetic. If the 'kid' acted like a man and took responsibility for his transgressions, he wouldn't have had 6-9 'white' cops holding him down, trying to put cuffs on him. BTW: would the chick commenting on the video prefer if the cops were black? Would that have made her feel better? Black cops would have done the exact same thing. They don't want to be wrestling with a 'kid', trying to cuff him, not knowing if he has a gun on him and about to start shooting. She be damn happy to see just one of those cops show up when she's being jumped, assaulted, robbed, raped, murdered. She'd be singing a different tune.
And taxpayer funded R.C.C. shouldn't even be still open for business. It's been badly managed for decades and has a well deserved crappy reputation.
BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A
By anon
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 8:10am
BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT STORY DUMB ASS...U SOUND STUPID U THINK U SOUND SMART BUT U DONT.... OF COURSE THE POLICE WOULD BE THERE WE CANT TAKE THINGS IN OUR OWN HAND..IF SOMEONE WAS BEING BEAT UP, RAPED WAT EVA THE POLICE IS THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN DO ANYTHING BOUT THE SITUATION..SHUT THE HELL UP RIDING THE POLICE d^$K LIKE THAT THEY DONTEVEN DESERVE..HOW THE HELL 7 PPL GET SHOT IN 17 HRS HUH..FUCKING SMART GUY
Please check your keyboard
By anon²
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 6:25pm
Please check your keyboard for a broken cap locks key.
thank you.
Herald: Kid was using cop's handcuffs as weapon
By adamg
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 6:44am
The Herald provides some excerpts from the police report on the incident, adds:
Explain
By anon-a-rama
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 8:29am
Will somebody explain why two people making $12 an hour at a house for older retards or mental patients manage to restrain and subdue a nutty resident without such force, and five cops have to punch? Seriously - these guys are lame and they would be fired immediately for that shit!
Maybe the cops should go work in nutty houses for $12 and hour and learn to do it right? Or does being paid 10x as much as a house aid does make them too special to learn?
People in these places do not have guns first of all.
By Pete Nice
Thu, 10/28/2010 - 9:19am
And do you really thing the workers in these places (I won't even get into what you want to refer to them as) have perfect restraint practices?
You have hundereds, maybe thousands of mental patients killed every year in this country by staff or by themselves in locked facilities. There are easily thousands of additional lawsuits against mental facilities for improper handling of patients that lead to injury, death, torture etc.
And the funny thing is, didn't this kid escape from one of these places in the first place? Maybe if the cops were trained there, this kid would still be free?!
(The above comment probably didn't deserve a civil response anyway but I bit)
Cops TV Show
By anon
Sat, 10/30/2010 - 7:24am
I love watching the TV Show "Cops" when they show a person resisting being cuffed. They struggle and scream bloody murder. After they're subdued they say,"I wasn't resisting."
BPD @ roxbury comm. college
By anon
Mon, 11/01/2010 - 10:16am
why isnt what happen before you see 12 officers trying to put this kid in handcuffs and IS IN FACT RESISTING. there werent 12 boston police officers just hanging around out front of the college just waiting to pick out somebody to mess with. is this kid even a student at the college? and as far as the kid taping making racial remarks himself and quoting that his aunt is a state rep. what does that mean? he's untouchable? and ive been in situations where there were all black police officers and myself being a white male, does that mean its ok to do whatever i want and i can pull the 'racecard'? and if this were a 'racial' issue, there are at least 3 black officers in this video and maybe even more. and yes i will agree that what you see on the video is a little agressive but again where the footage of what happen before they were able to get him on the ground? funny how thats not there...
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