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Hey, Gelzinis, people in Jamaica Plain don't have to drive to Cambridge for organic tomatoes
By adamg on Fri, 01/21/2011 - 10:17am
The Herald's foreign-correspondent approach to the Whole Foods/Hi-Lo news continues today. Peter Gelzinis, who normally knows better, rushes so fast to get to the class-warfare angle that he loses his way to the real story.
First, the "earthy-crunchy" set in Jamaica Plain doesn't have to drive to Cambridge for organic tomatoes, as Gelzinis claims. Even if they hate the two earthy-crunchy City Feeds, the Harvest and the organic-tomato-carrying Stop & Shop, your average non-Herald-reader would have a much shorter trip driving up to the Whole Foods in Brighton or the Trader Joe's in Coolidge Corner. More important, though, Gelzinis leaves the really outrageous part until the end: The fact that the Hi-Lo workers were treated like dirt. But that would have been a shorter column and isn't as much fun writing about as feeling morally superior to middle-aged hippies.
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Comments
and the Harvest. I think the
and the Harvest.
I think the Herald and Globe are only reporting on one of the two main issues here (upscale food versus the inexpensive & latin focused food). Having lived for several years in that part of JP, I shopped at HiLo to avoid the chain store Stop and Shop, and I think that is something people in JP in this case, and Boston generally, are frustrated about. Another chain. Harvest and the 2 city feeds were both upscale food stores, but independently owned. When dominoes tried to come to JP people fought and won, while people came out in support of locally owned Same Old Place (pizza place)after a shooting. People in JP and Boston in general appreciate locally owned businesses. This I think is being missed by our two lazy papers.
Except...
when it supports two Dunks within a block of each other. Jamaica Plain has a very funny set of rules when determining which chains are OK (Dunk's, 7-11, Stop & Shop) and which aren't.
My favorite part about the "We beat Domino's" story is that the petitioners were so adamant that another pizza shop would crush existing pizza places and that the area didn't need another pizza shop, etc. Yet what replaces La Pupusa in Hyde Square right between Nemo's and Ideal? You guessed it, another pizza shop.
A friend suggested that everyone complaining about how this Whole Foods will be a pox on our community and a plague on City Feed and Harvest -- both neighborhood stores that even the Harvest manager acknowledges tend to fare pretty well with a Whole Foods nearby -- should be branded so we can identify them when they're spooning organic hummus into their baby's mouth in the aisles of Whole Foods six months from now. You know, two years before their child reaches school age and their home hits the market (seriously, go to open houses in JP on any given Sunday and count the cribs... it's like a sad timetable that just keeps repeating).
I understand that keeping KFC, McDonald's and other chain retailers off Centre Street in the 80s and early 90s gave us the thriving center we have today, but it also sets a false standard. I've heard Starbucks mentioned on several occasions during this argument and I'm now openly hoping one comes into town -- preferrably in the Jamaicaway Books space. Maybe that will finally sink it into people's skulls that independent shops like La Pupusa, June Bug, Velouria, Zon's, Jamaicaway Books, and Petal and Leaf aren't being killed off by "chains." In Jamaicaway's case, there was nothing in the area competing with it.
Instead, these shops are going out the way shops usually do -- through market fluctuations, rent hikes and the decision of the owners. That's what happened to Hi-Lo which, again, wasn't forced out by a chain but closed by its Newton owners and leased to Whole Foods. Perhaps instead of using a dated, misguided approach to "saving" JP, why don't you look at each business on its own merit and let that guide the planning process? Domino's may be a bad fit, but Whole Foods seems like a good one in many ways -- and one that could make our good independent organic shops (one of which I'm a member of) even better.
what about the Harvest Co-op?
what about the Harvest Co-op? Right on the other side of JP.
Yep, and the Harvest
Obviously, I would fail the entrance exam for the JP Earthy-Crunchy Organic Foods Society. Adding 'em in.
I was unaware that you had to
I was unaware that you had to pick up the phone and call Sanchez before you opened a grocery store in JP. Why should that be? Organic tomatoes? What is this clown even talking about?
Whit
Obviously, you don't, but ...
If nothing else, it's good business sense to let the elected officials in an area know, because they can make your life tougher when it comes to any required permits or whatnot.
Disagree
Sanchez has overstepped his boundaries. This is a free-market situation with a ton of upside for JP residents of all socio-economic backgrounds:
(1) The Hi-Lo was a dump and a commercial failure.
(2) Whole Foods is coming in and HIRING 100 people. They are routinely ranked as one of the best employers in America. So, folks of low or medium income as well as their children (some of which may be at-risk inner city youths) now have access to getting a job at one of the best places to work in the country, just as many of their suburban peers do. (I recognize this is a grocery store, but for unskilled labor most are at a consensus that a job at whole foods is one of the better gigs you can get.)
(3) Hyde Square was at risk of becoming a ghost town or, worse, infiltrated by low-grade tenants, such as a dollar store or a Walgreens. Instead, it could potentially be headed toward a renaissance.
(4) Sanchez is behaving like a political thug, stomping around and raising hell on behalf of 20 PERCENT of JP residents (hispanics). Textbook case of what is wrong with urban pols. How exactly is he sticking up for this group? He should shut his mouth before he gets repudiated by the solid bloc of feel-good
yuppies that put him in office. Sounds like this moss hill hack is upset no one from whole foods dropped by to kiss his ring.
(5) The downside is that access to certain ethnic foods may be curtailed. This is mitigated by local bodegas in and around JP. There are also larger markets in the Boston area that cater to that group.
Apologies to come across so fired up, but after a week of reading the stories in the globe and the herald you would think that a meth factory or terrorist outfit was going to be renting out the hi-lo. I'm psyched for JP and can't wait to drive over from South Boston the day the whole foods opens!
and all of us from JP are
and all of us from JP are really excited for your arrival. So its a good thing that a chain grocer that someone from South Boston wants to drive to is coming to JP so the people who used to shop at HiLo can drive to other neighborhoods that have these larger Hispanic markets? That just seems like a lot of wasted driving.
Well, a lot of the stories I
Well, a lot of the stories I read about Hi-Lo customers had them coming from Hyde Park and Lynn so it's not as though any of these businesses only had locally based customers.
"All of us from JP"
That one clause sums up this story in a nutshell: A certain segment of JP always feels it necessary to voice their beliefs as a proxy for ALL of JP.
I, for one, welcome anyone from beyond the neighborhood who's kind enough to bring business into JP. One person's "wasted driving" is another's thriving commercial district.
Never speak for me again.
"All of us from JP"
That one clause sums up this story in a nutshell: A certain segment of JP always feels it necessary to voice their beliefs as a proxy for ALL of JP.
I, for one, welcome anyone from beyond the neighborhood who's kind enough to bring business into JP. One person's "wasted driving" is another's thriving commercial district.
Never speak for me again.
Okay, I'll take the T! Or
Okay, I'll take the T! Or maybe I'll just move in!
FYI - Latest census says neighborhood of JP is 20% hispanic, down from 1/3 in 2000. That's where the number comes from.
And just when I thought the sell-out from Moss Hill Sanchez was the lowest of the low, Felix Arroyo rolls out central planning! More power to the Latin Quarter! (Hyde Square is as much the Latin Quarter of Boston as the South Boston Waterfront is the "Innovation District" - they are both meaningless Menino namesakes.)
As far as lawsuits are concerned, unless whole foods decides to sell smut or something so non-grocery related that zoning laws are violated, there is no lawsuit to be filed. Causing or inciting gentrification is not a cause of action in the american legal system last time I checked. Not sure a neighborhood association representing a modicum of the community will have its constitutional rights violated by this either.
Maybe folks are so up in arms because this is a bit of a watershed moment for JP. I could have called it the first time I ate at ten tables a few years ago, or when boston magazine said this past year that JP is one of the best places west of the city (as in downtown) to live, but the fact of the matter is that JP has gentrified, and rapidly.
This whole foods is like a nail in the coffin, I would guess, for the folks that preferred it to be a little edgier or remain resistant to gentrification. Somewhat analogous to when the convention center was built in South Boston - the city ran roughshod over the locals, who must have realized the battle against gentrification was for all intents and purposes lost.
Maybe we are seeing the same thing here, because I've never seen so many folks (and the papers) fired up about a grocery store before. Feels like something bigger is at stake.
The hypocrisy is what gets me
Back in 2008, the 81 neighborhoods where Whole Foods proposed opening new stores had and average median household income is around $63,000, or $22,000 more than the U.S. average, according to the 2000 census. In those neighborhoods, 74.06 percent of the population is white.
That year, Whole Foods opened four outlets in Atlanta but, instead of targeting a diverse southern Atlanta suburb, opted for 88.6-percent white Alpharetta. In Seattle's Interbay neighborhood, Whole Foods spurned 49 percent-white, $16,000 median household income neighborhood that is home to the city's largest community garden for an 88.4-percent white neighborhood where the residents average just more than $49,000 per year.
Only when Whole Foods opens in an ethnically and economically diverse neighborhood like Hyde Square, however, do people around here bitch and moan about it. Suddenly, opening in a neighborhood they'd usually ignore is "racist."
Oh, and let's talk about "local" for a second -- calling out City Feed specifically. Did you know that all of Whole Foods' fish and seafood products -- you know, the ones Harvest and City Feed don't feel the need to carry in any significant amount -- come from boats in Gloucester contracted to Whole Foods' Pigeon Cove facility there? Also, looking at the local supplier list for the Mass. Ave. Whole Foods, they're contracted with Allendale Farm in Brookline -- as the Hyde Square branch would likely be. They've created local jobs and, by Hi-Lo's own count, will be increasing the number of jobs in Hyde Square by 53. Again, I would think eliminating local jobs in Hyde Square -- or deliberately pricing products out of range of that community, as our good friends on Boylston Street and with the big "Buy Local" would be far more racist.
The City ran roughshod over the locals?
Actually, some of your own real estate folks were among the first to flip the 'hood. I was once told that Louise Day Hicks always supported rent control because it would help keep Southie the way it "was". Ray Flynn did likewise. Jim Kelly disagreed and helped open the door for the very people that have changed the neighborhood somewhat. Still rather live in JP though.
Surprised I agree with this much of your statment
Again, it's been amazing to see all of the Moss Hill and Pondsiders rushing to the defense of "the Hispanic community." Excuse me, but "the Hispanic community" (which has to be way more than 20% of JP) isn't exactly a helpless entity in these parts. It's a community that makes its voice felt here and wouldn't hesitate to show outrage and an outpouring of support for the status quo at Hi-Lo.
But the Hispanic community isn't one train of thought. In the comments field on the various sites, this community is broken down into individual voices that appear split on the issue. Not everyone's convinced this move is necessary, but not everyone's convinced that Hi-Lo is all it could be -- or all the surrounding neighborhood deserves. In some cases it will be missed, but no mourned.
Again, I challenge any non-Hispanic Hi-Lo defender to find Fernandez Spa, Ruggerio's or any of the other shops the cover with the blanket "bodega" label. Did you ever get a sandwich or sweet bread from one of these places? Hell, did you ever go there for a reason beyond cultural tourism (a recipe involving tomatillos, a soup you read about in the Atlantic, etc)? Just stop in for some bread and eggs?
I won't dare speak for "the Hispanic community," as I'm not part of it. As a white boy on South Street, though, I look forward to adding Whole Foods to shopping agenda that includes Harvest, Fernandez, Blanchard's, Fiore's, Yumont and Ace.
Exactly
I'm so tired of the Pondsiders dictating what's appropriate for certain parts of JP. They've been stickin' their unwanted noses in my part of JP (Parkside, Egleston) for ages now- advocating for shit they don't want in their backyard but are happy to have in mine because it suits their liberal sensibilities(and I'm a crazy liberal, so I know of what I speak).
I would venture to guess that these well-off folk have not stepped into Hi-Lo in a very long time, if ever. And they sure as hell haven't been to my side of JP and visited our numerous hole-in-the-wall bodegas or even Ruggiero's (if someone tried to replace Ruggiero's, though, I'd be on the front lines protesting. I need my wine delivery!)
...and how would you live
...and how would you live without the cheery greeting the Ruggiero's guys and gals give you every time you come in? I love just going in there to chat and hang out.
Kidding. Ruggiero's is definitely crucial for those of us in "Parkside" but I never go in without the half-real fear that I'm about the get shot...by one of the owners. They are a tight-lipped, grim-faced bunch.
Naw, one of the brothers is
Naw, one of the brothers is friendly.
I hate going in there. In
I hate going in there. In fact, I don't. Go to the place on Green that the Asian family runs or the little store on Washington at the end of Montebello. I wish Ruggierrios (sp?) would go out of business.
I love the family that runs
I love the family that runs Green St Market. I wish they'd make some serious changes to their store though--it doesn't have to be Cityfeed but it could be a little broader.
Can you be more specific?
Who is advocating what for Egleston Square or Parkside that you don't want there?
the "liberals" in egleston
the "liberals" in egleston (Parkside?) oppose an affordable housing project for homeless people. Now a Whole Foods in Hyde Square. See ya later JP
McInnis House rehab
Some do oppose it, but the rehab of the former Barbara McInnis House has very strong community support.
Well, then if you are angry
Well, then if you are angry about Sanchez, don't look at what Councilor Felix Arroyo is talking about:
http://npaper-wehaa.com/elplaneta/2011/01/21/?utm_...
"Podemos ver si hay otras opciones para esa localidad. Las alternativas pueden incluir otros almacenes cuyos propietarios también sean locales y que atiendan el mismo tipo de clientela, como Brothers Supermarket o America’s Food Basket."
For our non-Spanish speaking members, Arroyo says that he's going to see what other options are available for "that location"...(seemingly meaning Hi-Lo, I don't see how else to read it) and he suggests other supermarkets that serve the same type of clientele and then throws his support behind two potential other private businesses.
Go here for the bot translation.
So that's interesting.
I'm not sure that's exactly what he's saying
My Spanish is a bit rusty, but I think you need to look at the entire paragraph to figure out what he's saying:
Or, en ingles:
So the context seems to mean he's saying he just wants to see if he can get another largeish (as opposed to corner bodega-ish) Hispanic store in the area, not that he's trying to block Whole Foods. Guess I'll drop his office a line to see what exactly he meant.
I agree that it's vague...it
I agree that it's vague...it depends on what he means by "location" but that seems like a strange choice of words to describe a neighborhood.
But, do let us know. Thanks!
Yeah, after doing some google
Yeah, after doing some google searching I think you're right on the broader meaning of "localidad".
This is why I never list Spanish on my resume.
Yeah, you do that, Mr.
Yeah, you do that, Mr. Important Reporter. *snicker*
Ah, my little anklebiter, why aren't you out playing in the snow
Either I do nothing and get accused of being a lazy blogger who doesn't know how to report or I try to do some basic reporting and get accused of, well, whatever it is bugs you today.
Playing in the snow....
...would require this troll to crawl out of his parents' basement.
So the answer is...
steal Hyde Park or Dorchester's markets for JP. Oh, that's really nice. P.S. If Hyde Park has America's Food Market, why are so many people from Hyde Park bemoaning the loss of Hi-Lo.
Simply put, this won't happen. It sounds like the leasing agreement is already in place and the cost of a lawsuit to fight it -- coupled with the vacating of the Hi-Lo during that process -- would likely result in a food desert instead of any real solution. Councilman Arroyo is making the argument he needs to make, but I think he's just aware as anyone else that the building and land isn't his to give.
Also
There's a Whole Foods near Symphony Hall, about two miles from the Hi-Lo.
My wife is from South
My wife is from South America. We live in JP. Occasionaly we go to Hi-Lo when she wants to make an authentic dish. Guess what? The prices there are not that great when compared to Stop & Shop. The meat and produce are both lacking in quality as well. I am sure you are all weekly patrons though!
I am not a fan of Whole Foods either but how could this not be the best thing for JP? I own a home right near there and am estatic. Like someone else mentioned, sure beats a dollar store opening up.
OK. I think I have it figured
OK. I think I have it figured out. The hipsters like the fact that the neighborhood they plan to move out of when they have kids is very diverse. They liked that the Hispanics had their own supermarket, until they got a chance to replace it with Whole Foods. Now the Hispanics can shop at bodegas and the ethnic section at Stoppies. Also, when you move to JP, if you buy your condo near the hill or the pond then you are a non-gritty poser. I got it.
Putting the "super" in supermarkets
I think the arguments about Whole Foods being overpriced are accurate, but don't hold a lot of weight when you consider that Stop and Shop is just a few blocks away. It is a real triumph to see a grocery chain like Stop & Shop in an urban neighborhood, providing a wide range of affordable groceries to local residents. Whole Foods will be a great alternative to Stop & Shop, although perhaps serving a different market or supplementing trips to Stop & Shop.
So, that's price, but what about food that reflects the diversity of the area? What if JP residents could focus some of their energy on putting pressure on Stop & Shop and Whole Foods to expand the "ethnic grocery" options in those stores. If the hispanic market is 20% of the local population, with the right advocacy, maybe S&S and WF will see this as a good business opportunity, one which will also promote good community relations.
The Globe just did a price
The Globe just did a price comparison on Whole Foods' prices and found that overall for staples (comparing the same items or as close as possible) they are surprisingly price competitive. I did a similar price comparison when I lived elsewhere and found the same thing. If you do a google search, you'll find similar results.
What clouds the issue though is that Whole Foods has a lot of really expensive stuff.
We in JP deserve a good selection of quality organic goods. S&S has a paltry selection. City Feed and Harvest are down at the other end of Centre and each have their own problems.
S&S already devotes a lot of space to latino groceries. They also have a very low variety of produce because of this. My guess is that Whole Foods will also tailor their selection; they would be stupid not to. And perhaps the bodegas will step up their game. And there is Tropical Foods on Melnea Cass.
I don't think that it would be ethical to force Whole Foods to hire all of the Hi Lo employees. It would be good of Whole Foods to interview all of them.
Has S&S been "involved in the community"? Has Hi Lo? Nope. so why the double standard with Whole Foods?
if they were replacing hi-lo
if they were replacing hi-lo with a business that was not yuppie/hipster approved, the outcry of racism on this site would be deafening.
If Whole Foods were replacing...
a market that wasn't the Motif Number 1 of the JP amateur photo artist set. the silence would be deafening. Again, the Whole Foods didn't drive Hi-Lo out, Hi-Lo's ownership invited Whole Foods in.
Yet the same people who usually champion the cause of working- to lower-middle-class people having access to nutritious food and quality produce are suddenly apoplectic about a place that sells both opening in an area that needs both. Denying everybody else access to the nutritious organic products usually reserved for well-off, lily white neighborhoods seems far more racist.
By that logic, we should also
By that logic, we should also offer them bakeries that make cookies for their dogs. Why should they be deprived? If this gentrification continues, soon you will see gang bangers from Boylston and Mozart putting away their guns and partaking in flash mobs, pillow fights on the common, pantless train rides and the inexplicable photography of MBTA facilities. Many of them already have ponytails, so they're already halfway there. I like where this is headed!
cookies for dogs?
You do realize that there IS just such a place within walking distance (mine) of Hi-lo? (Green Street, or if that one has closed there is similar one on South Street near St. Thomas. There was also one near the Monument but that closed.
I seem to be on the proverbial fence on this argument. I passed JPSouth's(?) litmus test of having shopped in Fernandez's for staples (ok it wasn't bread/eggs it was beer, is that a staple?)
I have shopped Hi-lo, but was disappointed with the produce, I tend to go to Baby Nats instead, if I don't want to drive I walk to the Harvest. Almost every time I walk out the Harvest I kick myself for going there due to their surly service(except Ms. W.), high prices, slow (if not long) lines, etc.
Whole Foods, I welcome you!
Um...
What are you talking about? There is Polka Dog which is a high-end pet store but hardly a dog bakery on South. On Green Street there is a vet office and a dog groomer but no bakery. And near the Monument--huh? There was a bakery that closed where Station 8 used to be, but a dog bakery? No. I think you're exaggerating wildly or just very confused, or I somehow misread your post...