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How can this even happen in a city like Boston?
By adamg on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 9:44am
The Globe reports doctors at Boston Medical Center are seeing an increased number of young children suffering from malnourishment:
Many families are unable to afford enough healthy food to feed their children, say the Boston Medical Center doctors. The resulting chronic hunger threatens to leave scores of infants and toddlers with lasting learning and developmental problems.
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Comments
fingers go a-flyin'
welfare mothers buying cigarettes and lottery tickets with my tax dollars...bleedin heart libruls...parents not interested in raising their kids...absent fathers...thugs and gangbangers...fat people...DEMOCRATS...fixie-riding hipsters...
Thought I'd just get all that out of the way...
postscript
...the ads I'm getting on this page view are for an obesity prevention program....
we. are. so. fucked.
Compound Problems
And sadly, just because a kid is overweight doesn't mean he's adequately nourished. Obesity prevention programs are a good thing, definitely, but are often not reflective of the reality among families who live in food deserts, or suffer from food insecurity. A doctor friend of mine tells a story about a young patient (maybe 7 or 8) who presented with hair loss and some other starvation indicators, but an abysmally high BMI. Turns out he was seriously nutrient deficient because he was getting all his calories from junk.
Yup.
n/t
The cost of food
As long as nutritious food (especially vegetables and fruits) are way more expensive than the dollar menu at McDonalds, cheap microwavable meals or a dollar box of pasta this is going to happen.
Regardless of what John-W said above, there are people who just don't have the money to buy nutritious and good-for-you food.
?
Is my sarcasm that bad?
Librul was a dead give away
but the rest of it was pretty obvious, too.
I don't think you have been
I don't think you have been to McDonalds lately. You can't leave that place without spending less than 6 bucks. There is plenty to eat that is cheaper and better for you too, if you know where to look or how to cook it.
True And Untrue
Better food available at a cheap cost? Yes, true.
However, when I'm opting for a quick meal before or after a softball game, I sometimes hit the Burger King in Southie. For my double cheeseburger, large fries, and chocolate shake, we're talking about five bucks. Shrink that to a kid-type size and we're probably talking three bucks.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Wendy's too
Wendy's has a lot of smaller items on the dollar menu and has been upgrading their menu lately - more whole food, more veg/fruit options. Moreover, you can order sandwiches without mayo (which I hate anyway) and cheese and other things that you may/not like or may/not want on there because they boost the calorie count by quite a bit. They also have decent salads, baked potatoes you can dump your own idea of stuff on, etc.
I fed myself, my husband, and two teens for $17 the other day, including drinks. How? One of us got an upsized combo - that was nearly $8, the rest ordered smaller things off the dollar menu, value sized drinks, etc. My husband and I split the big combo drink and all four shared the megafries.
The Wendy's Triple . . .
. . . is deliciousness defined. "The Baconator" that they offered a while back was the pinnacle of American cuisine. But more than one visit to Wendy's per month is not a good idea.
Boston.com headline fail
Eh...yes, starving children's stomachs do tend to distend. How insensitive.
Why food is so expensive
House prices were falling because fewer people can buy houses. This caused current owners to go underwater on their mortgages. So in order to keep prices up, the Fed created inflation. That way each dollar is worth less, and even though the value of your house has gone down, the price is supposed to be propped up.
Unfortunately the weaker dollar translates into higher prices for food and gas first, before it ever gets to the houses.
Stick to painting
This is not even close to the reason why. Stick to your day job.
The collapse of cheap credit because of the CDS debacle on Wall Street returned us to reality from over-inflated home ownership rosters (and real estate pricing). Home prices fell as a *result* of the loss of mortgages being handed to people who shouldn't have gotten them in the first place. People went underwater because they bought their house during a bubble and then the bubble burst. Inflation hasn't kept housing prices up at all (find any inflation adjusted graph of home pricing and you'll see that we're right where we'd be if there had never been a bubble through the Bush presidency years).
Meanwhile, inflation can't even come close to explaining gas price rises (again, find any inflation-adjusted gas pricing graph). Instead, increased speculation on oil pricing as well as emerging and rapidly increasing markets in India and China have decoupled oil futures from reality. Between that and oil companies willing to always raise but rarely decrease prices (instead pocketing profits higher than ever before), gas costs go up and up and up. The effect on food is that it costs a LOT of gas to move food around for nearly every stage of agriculture and sales. Food (particularly minimally processed food like produce) operates on such a slim margin that any increase in production cost is going to be immediately transmitted to the consumers. So, about the only thing you got right is that food and gas prices are permanently linked...but neither one's current rises are due to inflation. (I've also seen early rumblings that supermarkets are starting to act like oil companies in allowing prices to rise when they have to maintain their minimal profit margin, but when production costs go down, the price doesn't fall again...the supermarket uses that to pocket the difference while consumers get stuck paying the consistently higher price.)
I agree with you that EM
I agree with you that EM Painter's post wasn't spot on, but could try--dare I say it--to be nice for once? From what I've seen on this blog, you tend to cut people down with alarming regularity. When you start thinking and acting like that, when you routinely forsake civility in debating with others holding different viewpoints, the difference between you and the people you rail against becomes difficult to see to an outside observer.
thanks
Oh thanks, but then I say something nasty back! ah the internet
Selective memory
I'm nicer to the people for whom I've learned discussion, reality, and facts might have an effect (see EMP's response for my justification).
I'm sure my acerbic posts leave a more lasting impression sometimes, but if you search around, you'll find plenty of examples where I post without animosity (linked examples not exhaustive).
Besides, my first response was a giant uncivil cut down? I didn't even use any name-calling! I was hardly wound up for that pitch. I'll need to be careful of my own strength.
deflationary risk
Have you heard Ben Bernanke address "deflationary risk" every other week? What do you think he's talking about? I never said that it worked, except for stock prices. He has said he wants to get those prices up.
Your gas/oil/food theory is generally junk, everything but the kitchen sink going into your argument. Maybe you're not old enough to have lived through previous periods of inflation, but you can watch Soylent Green to remind you of a time when people had to come up with a hundred cockamamie explanations why food got so expensive. In that movie they blame it on algae.
The monetary explanation is obvious, clear, simple and demonstrable. I'm not hoarding gold coins for the super-pocalypse, there are reasons for these things and I understand that everybody is doing their best. But even Boston exists as part of a national economy.
Statistics
I would be interested to know whether this conclusion was reached based on an interview of pediatricians at BMC who, in their judgement, believed the children to be dangerously under-weight or whether it was based purely on the weights of children pulled off of intake forms measured against whatever number has been deemed "dangerously under weight." I only raise this because my kids have always been on the low end of the weight spectrum that peditricians use but our pediatrician has always said that those are just stats, and my kids are perfectly healthy. It struck me that the article referred to a 1-year old who was 19lbs versus the "average" of 24 lbs for 1-year olds. In a society as fascinated by statistics as we are, there is a danger to drawing conclusions like this based solely on numbers rather than the judgement of pediatricians who assess the individuals childrens' health. That said, there are, sadly, many people who can't afford to feed their family properly and meet all of their other necessary financial obligations, so the numbers may well be true, in which case shame on us all for allowing it to happen.
I'd like to know what they
I'd like to know what they are buying that's unhealthy. I know the standard food stamp benefit is 200/mo (with no income period) for ONE PERSON. With dependents (kids) its even more. So what are they buying?
The article says that the featured family was living in a hotel that only had a fridge and a microwave. I'm not where this person learned to cook, but there's a ton you can buy with a Microwave. Ever here of Microwave veggies? Or slicing up some apples and spreading peanut butter on them?
I also would like to know HOW their food stamp benefits are being spent and where. I'm sorry I have been in Tedeschi's too many times to see welfare momma's buying 40 bucks in over priced garbage. I know that supermarkets aren't easily accessible from some areas (even though a recent article in the Globe said that Mass had more supermarkets per capita than anywhere else in the US). But, god for bid, that someone has to walk a bit further to save a few bucks on some groceries (to make it go further).
But no, I know people are walking to the nearest overpriced Stop & Shop or Tedeschi's buying food there. I mean I know, and you can argue with me to the hilt that this isnt true with me (and wont win), that the mentality of many food stamp beneficiaries thought process is "well I'm not paying for it, the state is, so why do I need to waste my time looking for a bargain when I can get food at the nearest store, even if its overpriced". Its true, I see it all the time.
Case in point, I have a friend who collects food stamps. He lives in Dorchester and the closest supermarket to him is Shaw's @ JFK (Morrisey Blvd). I went grocery shopping with him a few weeks ago to that Shaw's. I could not believe what that Shaw's charges for groceries, and this store serves MANY MANY people from Dorchester, who I know are food stamp beneficiaries. So out of convenience, people are shopping there, rather than getting off their ass and shopping at a cheaper store (heck of the Shaw's Pru was cheaper than this location). I asked my friend why he doesn't shop at Market Basket in Chelsea. "Too far" was his reply. Too far for what? Too far to make your 5 bucks you spent on 3 tomatoes to get 10 at Market Basket. Folks, people are just lazy.. very lazy. Again if it was their own money, I bet they'd think twice about shopping at that Shaw's.
And folks, you CAN be overweight and malnourished. It has nothing to do with body weight at all. It has to do with vitamin levels in the blood. Case in point, I'm not a small guy, weight wise. But I recently was told by my doctor that I am malnourished. How can this be? I'm about 60lbs over my ideal weight. It is because they did a vitamin check on blood samples and said I lacked several vital vitamins.. namely Calcium and Vitamin A & D. (yet I drink Milk daily)
Yeah the kid may be overweight, but if he's eating a diet of high carbohydrates and fats, they are going to be malnourished.
This really shows you that the Food Stamp system is broken, waay broken.
PS - I love how all the boston.com posters are having a field day and saying "dont allow food stamps people to buy drugs and smokes". Thats the biggest LIE I've heard, haven't these people actually BEEN on food stamps to know what you can and can't buy. Of course that's not stopping people from doing EBT card trades for cash (where you trade the amount on your card for physical cash), and THEN buying whatever with the cash but this becomes an enforcement problem for the state.
Not for nothing...
I've seen stores take EBT for everything from cigarettes to lottery tickets and even blunt wraps.
Which stores are those?
Part of the general EBT concept was that they are supposed to be automatically electronically auditable (e.g. which transactions bought what items). Of course, that doesn't mean audits are done.
tell us
I'd love to know these stores that do this.. please tell us.
Just because someone is buying smokes along side food doesnt mean food stamps are being used. The registers take care of this.
It's all fungeable
Like you and Swirly, I doubt very much that the stores are accepting EBT payments for cigarettes. However, money saved on food purchased with food stamps can certainly pay for cigarettes, candy, and alcohol. Maybe the one account doesn't directly pay for the vice items, but it certainly frees up funds for that purpose.
Correct.
Correct. The money that is saved by using food stamps instead of paying with their own money can be used for this purpose.
Of course there's a HUGE issue here with that, the DTA (food stamps folks) need to do their job and investigate that these folks don't have more income than what they declare to get food stamp benefits.
However, I say all of this with caution. Some of these bodegas that take EBT always make me go HMM. Many of these places do not employ more electronic means for registers. I mean, how many bodegas do you see still have the 200 dollar Casio Register from BJs? There's nothing stopping folks from ringing up some smokes as 2 gallons of milk and then just entering the total amount into the credit card machine (EBT cards use the same machine).
This is why I've often thought EBT should not be accepted at smaller markets for this reason. The big supermarkets are setup to automatically determine what's a valid EBT purchase and what's not. Bodegas.. not so much.
Exactly!
These are the stores I spoke of earlier. I will not name any as that's not my way, but they are places owned by whites, Indians, Latinos, all walks of life.
Here's a hint, 9 times out of 10, you'll see a big sign, usually in Sharpie that screams "We accept EBT".
This is something I've seen go on since I was a kid in Bunker Hill where I watched people use WIC to buy smokes and beer.
I definitely see this happening
A lot of the corner stores will sell you cigarettes, diapers, TP, shampoo, whatever, and they'll ring it up as a food item that costs the same.
You really expect people to
You really expect people to drive from Dorchester to Chelsea for groceries?
I know MB is cheap, but that's quite a haul. The gas, time, and tolls will balance out much, if not all, of the savings.
Does your friend have a car?
The area Market Baskets are out of the way for many people, especially those without a car. And for many people, time is important as well.
Also, driving from Chelsea to Dorchester involves a toll
on the Tobin Bridge. Yes, you can avoid it by driving through the wholesale produce market on Beacham Street, but then you'll have to spend more money on replacing your car suspension.
y'all missed my point
I think everyone kinda missed my point. It wasnt about just going to Market Basket. I think it was about going elsewhere than the nearest overpriced bodega or supermarket to make their dollar strtech.
and its shameful to think how much Shaw's jacks people because of that location. And SuperValu knows this and continues to do it. (and the state ALLOWS them to do it)
And yeah, regardless of a car, I found a way to get to cheaper groceries. Many many years ago I collected food stamps, and I remember going half way across town to a Foodmaster because I know it was significantly cheaper than going to the 4 Stop & Shop and Shaw's that were very close by. Because I know I could make the stamps stretch much further than I did if I went nearby. And No I didn't own a car at the time so it was a VERY long trip on the T.
But my point to all of this is, people will pay for over priced groceries just out of convenience. Maybe if it wasn't their dime, people would think twice about it.
On a different note but on the same pricing vein. I've noticed Stop & Shop and Shaw's price fix depending on location. If they are near each other, prices are lower. If there isn't a competitor nearby, the prices are higher. Dollar to dollar, a Stop & Shop in Revere has different prices than a Stop & Shop in Stoneham. (Just look at the flyers between the stores and you'll see.)
Yet Market Basket has the same flyer for the ENTIRE chain, and the prices are the same. So a person in Chelsea pays the same price as someone in Warner, NH. I've yet to understand how Stop & Shop and Shaw's can get away with that.
Clearly there's no way reason for S&S or Shaw's to be this way. Yeah Market Basket's business model may be different but it just shows that S&S and Shaw's just like to jack people on prices just because they can.
Maybe the state should step in...
And the problem is????
So, what's the issue? There's nothing wrong being done here. S&S/Shaw's are setting their prices on a more discrete geographic level. So what?
As far as jacking people on prices, that's what companies do - they charge as much as possible for the retail model they wish to follow. Some companies are discounters, some more full-service, and some price depending on the local competition. It's a lot more work than the Market Basket model of charging the same price everywhere, but it's smarter.
I'm no S&S fan, and really try to avoid it as much as possible. My wife is a Market Basket fan and goes out of her way to get to one. People make their own choice about where to go.
Fresh Food has always been sketchy here
If you travel to places on the west coast, closer to Floridex, or Chicago, you get produce that is much higher quality for less than half the price.
Seriously. I grew up spoiled in the foodtopia known as Portland and the quality of produce her is better than 20 years ago, but still low - artillery grade peaches and tomatoes. Scabby potatoes. The prices are very high by comparison, too. I think that citrus fruit is the only fruit that I see cheaper and nicer on the east coast.
This is all, of course, because there really isn't much food production in the region any more - PEI and Maine potatoes are about it. Food that has to be shipped a long way is generally not ripe, and is lower quality by the time it gets here.
At least produce IS available in Boston - even at midsummer in New Brunswick, finding anything other than blueberries or potatoes or cabbage was darn near impossible.
Meanwhile, processed foods are the same price they are just about anywhere. Color me unsurprised that people buy junk and not fresh foods when time for preparation and money are low.
Food for thought.
Farmers Markets
Have local food that is 1-2 days fresh and in general do not have crazy prices. There are some good ones in the Boston area.
But people are not mentioning the fact that many parents simply are not good parents. These are the parents who don't even feed themselves properly and send their kids to school without anything. Then during the summer the kids have to fend for themselves and have to eat anything they can find, which is usually candy.
Farmer's Markets are Summer Only
The longest running markets are from Late May to November. I think it is wonderful how they have reached out to accept non-cash assistance and vouchers and the like. It is all very helpful.
The rest of your comment makes me wonder if you have ever put in a 50-60 hour work week when your partner wasn't home and you had two young, non-independent kids to chase after. Then try it without being able to order takeout as a backup. Then try it without a kitchen. Chaos reigns - I don't know how I would be able to do that long term and still have sane, fed kids.
Although I have to say that I know well-intentioned parents with enough wealth to live in an upscale suburb and have one full-time parent who take their kids to Costco and let them throw just anything in the cart. I thought my kids would be jealous when they saw what their friends got to do - but they were pretty horrified (even though my younger one is a human pacman growing 1" a month right now).
Somerville has a winter's farmers market
I got some great stuff like beets, squash, greens, and carrots there all winter (plus I discovered watermelon radishes -- amazing in salads). I've always lived around here so I never knew our produce was inferior.
I don't have kids but I work long hours and it is tough to plan and prepare healthy meals when I know there are myriad cheap fast-food or frozen options available. And it's hard enough coming up with easy, healthy dinners that taste good to me -- I can't imagine trying to get kids to eat them too.
Where in Somerville and what
Where in Somerville and what day/s during the winter do they hold it? I'd love to get in on that.
Somerville winter farmers' market
this year was at the Armory, 191 Highland Avenue, Saturdays from 10 am to 2 pm in January, February, and March. They were very busy! The schedule may well change for next winter.
The Armory tried continuing these markets into the spring on Sundays, but these were less successful and the last one (on Memorial Day weekend) was cancelled.
Thanks for the tip!
I'll keep an eye out for that.
Yea I've done all that.
I'm just saying some people but their own personal life before feeding their kids. I'm not indicating parenting is easy for anyone.
I'd say the majority of the malnurished kids in this country are malnurished because their parents are lazy and stupid and not poor and can't afford the right foods.
Just my opinion.
EDIT: Ok, many of these parents have mental health issues and cannot help themselves or their kids. So they aren't all lazy and stupid.
Oh and two little ones is easy. I've done it with four.
just got back from trip to west coast
My impressions, as from many previous trips, are that while west coast produce is less expensive, price differences are now less extreme and more nuanced than you describe.
Had a few days to myself and spent them walking through SF. Took note of food prices. Overall produce in supermarkets was less expensive than here, but not by as much as you describe (~25% max), and the real 'commodity' produce (bannanas, head lettuce, carrots, potatoes etc) was nearly identical. But like most big cities, SF has fewer supermarkets and *many* more mom&pop street-level grocers selling at 60-75% chain-retail prices (with comensurate swings in quality level). There are some here too (eg Baby Nat's), but overall Boston has a distinct lack compared with other big cities. Otoh, nowadays we have enough big markets in every part of the city that there are no true 'food deserts' like you find in some parts of SF, chicago, etc.
(fwiw, packaged goods prices were comparable. Milk/dairy/cheese - especially the quality stuff, was more. Paper and pharm were higher. Meat was a bit more. Fish was much cheaper. Bread was cheaper.)
SF has only a couple of true farmers markets, but they are much bigger and run multiple days/week. As with Boston, produce there appears to be high quality (didn't buy and try) but often not waht you'd call cheap. It did not appear that SF farmers mkts support food assistance program purchases as do Boston's.
The mix of produce is different on west coast. While I saw, as always, a *lot* more pacific-rim veg/fruits - especially melons and stone fruits, there were fewer varieties of root and green leafy veg types. That's changed - or I should say, it seems as though west coast was similar 20 years ago to now, but since then Boston has approached the west coast variety of asian and central Am produce, but also has more African and S. American produce, which is less common on west coast. Obviously, this is a reflection of immigrant pops.
As per quality - overall, west coast gets the win in looks, although there were exceptions. I think North-south transportation is easier in Pacific than Atlantic, so access to quality year-round seasonal produce is better.
But as I've noticed in past, when I take careful note, I realize that markets on west coast offer *fewer* varieties of apples, greens and root veg than Boston markets. And while their cherries and mass-market berries are better looking and cheaper than ours, I noticed that they did not seem to have the less-flashy but so much tastier local crop strawberries and blueberries that we get here in season.
Overall, I think it's easier to find good-quality produce in Sf year round, but for planetary variety, Boston gets a marginal, but still suprising win. As I indicated above, i think thats a result of our more varied immigrant mix, rather than any regional/geographical advantage.
So if you are trying to feed a family with healthy fresh food, SF beats Boston, although depending on where you are from, you might have to change your cuisine preferences.
***
An addendum re: retail prepared food (lunch counters, restaurants, etc)
the economic troubles clearly hit SF *much* harder than Boston. Margins are tighter, and competition is fierce (about 1/4 of places I tried to visit had gone under in last year). Result is suprisingly affordable prep'ed food. Some examples - high quality bentobox lunch in Castro for $9, big quarter pie of za and drink in Soma for $4.50, 2 person meal at downtown micro-brewery/tappas bar, $55 (Thirsty Bear, btw - I highly recomend - that pre-tip price was for a pint apeice, a tasting plate of cheese+3oz beer sample, and four tappas plates).
Jeez, blame much? If someone
Jeez, blame much?
If someone is in a motel there isn't going to be storage, so the moms may be going for something that doesn't require it. They probably don't have a full set of cookware handy either.
Farmers markets that I go to tend towards expensive boutique herbs and heirloom tomatoes.
"Far" may be more than distance. Adding $3-5 bucks for the T may squash the math for them.
Foodstamps don't increase just because your kids aren't in school getting free meals; there are summer food programs but no guarantee that one will be near where you live.
I'm okay just saying that I am appalled if kids are going hungry and that I think we as a society should try to fix it rather than sniping at people I don't know who live in unenviable circumstances.
You need to go to different farmers markets then.
Somverville has a good one, as does Brookline, Newton and there are several in Boston that I haven't been to in a while.