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Almost no school-bus service this afternoon; union tells wildcatters to go back to work
By adamg on Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:48pm
BPS says most kids will have to get home on their own this afternoon as a wildcat strike by drivers against the city's new bus contractor continues - only 20 buses are running.
The steelworkers union, which represents drivers, told them they should return to work and first go through a grievance process with Veolia, which has the contract to run bus service for more than 33,000 BPS, charter and parochial school students in Boston.
The Globe reports Veolia formally locked out workers at the Hyde Park bus yard around 11:45 a.m.
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Comments
Ah, unions. The best thing
Ah, unions. The best thing that ever happened to this country!
Snark?
Sounds like someone's being a little snarky...
I think unions, overall (not entirely), are a bit self destructive in the present. They don't seem to be fighting so much as for what is right as they are fighting quite simply for "more." Now, this is a complete simplification, of course, but interpret it as you will.
But to say they've done nothing good is to completely discredit them for great strides made over the years decades ago. In general, I feel they had their place and time, and it should be admired. We as a society are bettered because of their past existence. The present is entirely debatable. Not to say that there aren't needs for them in some parts of the world for certain things, but I'd say most of the developed world is beyond their need. As indicated by declining union membership.
I'm pro-union, but I agree
I'm pro-union, but I agree with you completely. I don't really see what the bus drivers' issues are. GPS tracking. Yeah, cuz, um, if someone steals that bus or a driver decides that they're going to go to the Stop & Shop to run errands, then I think the company should know about that. If a driver isn't doing that, then there is nothing to worry about.
I'll never forget the bunch of retired MBTA employees who used to stand outside my T station. Ostensibly they were there to hand out pro-union flyers. Most mornings, however, they did little more than huddle together in a group and gossip. There were no flyers getting handed out, as far as I could tell. This would go on for many days.
Unions need to focus on the quality of the work their members produce as much as the quality of the compensation packages employers provide.
Globe has details about NLRB complaint
veolia violating union contract
The French-owned Veolia of Illinois Transport firm (which paid $180,000 to former U.S. Senator Al D'Amato's Park Strategies lobbying firm in recent years) wants to privatize public transportation and mass transit systems in the United States. After being awarded the City of Boston/BPS contract to run/manage the school bus transport system, Veolia's management started to violate the terms of the contract that the local school bus drivers union had signed with the previous management and which is still legally binding. So, in response, the bus drivers exercised their democratic right to walk off the job.If you check out the union-busting and anti-labor cost-cutting actions that Veolia's management have been implementing in Nassau County since they began managing the public transit system there, it indicates why workers in Boston area should not side with Veolia and the Menino administration rather than with the school bus drivers who are being victimized by Veolia.
Specifics?
Can you share specifics about the contract violations?
Self-destructive
Self-destructive, industry-destructive, community-destructive... sure, whatever you would like to call it, but destructive nonetheless.
So you
Completely disregard everything and zone in on "destructive". Right, good, grand. Enjoy your stubborn misery.
Enjoy your weekend!
I know I'm going to - especially the extra paid day off for the holiday.
Gee, I wonder how this weekend and holiday thing came to happen? (fully acknowledging that some people don't get them anymore ...)
I won't say that I'm "enjoying" my sick day today, but you get the picture.
are you also acknowledging
That people had days off before unions? That some people still have to work weekends, even with unions around?
Low-wage workers should get earned paid sick days, too
Especially the ones who work in food service and retail.
Everyone should get paid sick
Everyone should get paid sick time. If you're really sick then stay home, get better, and don't infect the rest of us.
But what have they done for
But what have they done for the American worker in the past 30 years? Yeah they did some great things in the past, but it's 2013 not 1953.
Well
if you live in Boston, they and the City have teamed up to have every household in the city on the hook for $18k worth of unfunded retirement benefits, so that's something.
To be fair, this is a failure of Menino to deal with a complicated problem. The unions' job is to max out their member benefits, not to figure out how to pay for it.
I think the pension
I think the pension shortfalls have been known for years--decades even--but I'm not really sure what the answer to all that is now. When I worked for the city 11% of my paycheck was sucked into the pension system (some of my older colleagues with more years in were paying a lot less than that.) I would have loved to have that 11% to contribute elsewhere, I didn't have a choice. On top of that I had my own IRA (because I wasn't stupid enough to think that the pension system was going to be around when/if I retired from the city.) So, if I wanted to fund my own IRA properly, in addition to my mandatory pension contribution, that meant like 25% of my salary was going to my retirement. I couldn't afford it.
If that 11% had been invested in a traditional IRA, that money would have really added up during the years. Since I didn't get income on that money, I think I got something around $30,000 when left after eight years. The pension system was able to use my money as an interest free loan for that time.
Years of employees who under-contributed meant that those of us who were younger were left picking up the tab. The easy answer to that is the contribution rate should have been raised for all employees when the shortfalls were discovered. It wasn't. The unions made that pretty impossible. This is another area where I feel unions were short-sighted.
Unions didn't actually get us
Unions didn't actually get us sick time, the 8 hour day, or weekends. But thanks for playing!
I'd like to learn more about
I'd like to learn more about that. Have a cite?
source?
thx
Please, share your sources
I'm interested - so long as said sources aren't blogs but actual historical references, that is.
Henry Ford
No less than Henry Ford himself... You should know that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford
Ford implemented the 5 day
Ford implemented the 5 day work week,5 dollars a day pay and the 8 hour day to keep the unions out of his factories.
Please read up on your labor history
Unions organizing and strikes for better pay and working conditions and paid time off and limited hours went on well before Ford decided to keep unions out by doing better.
I'd suggest a trip to Lowell, but that's a National Parks Service facility.
Source.
Source.
I'd suggest you just say you're wrong for once.
Unless you happen to have
Unless you happen to have today off, you seem to be getting paid for spending your day commenting on here...
Comprehension?
What part of "sick day" did you not see?
Not that I didn't do about 7 hours of work anyway ... just avoided spreading kid plagues to my coworkers.
Ah history
Is the argument that I should support unions because of legislation unions advocated in the 30s? That's like the Republican Party telling African Americans, "Enjoy that 13th Amendment! Vote GOP!"
You act like that isn't what
You act like that isn't what the GOP does. "Party of Lincoln" ?
Swirls maybe strawberries had
Swirls maybe strawberries had something to do with it , you are smart you can figure it out!
Strawberry locker?
Actually, when I think of strawberries and labor law/labor rights, I think of picking strawberries for money when I was 12-16 years old.
Truly back and kneebreaking work, that. But, at least I wasn't out there at age 5 like my parents were because the state had banned field laborers under age 12 sometime before.
James R Hoffa,
James R Hoffa,
'' In 1930, while still a teenager, Hoffa became a freight handler in a warehouse of the Kroger Grocery and Baking Company in Clinton, Indiana. Here came a turning point in his life, brought on by what he called a need for self-preservation in the face of meager pay and poor working conditions. The young man soon led the other warehousemen in a successful strike that would become a part of the Hoffa legend: by refusing to unload a shipment of perishable strawberries, they forced the company to accede to their demands. With his prowess as an organizer quickly recognized, Hoffa left the warehouse in 1932 to become a full-time Teamster organizer in Detroit, Michigan. The four coworkers who had helped him carry off the strike at Kroger left with him and remained on his staff throughout his career.''
( http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/James_Riddle_Hof... )
You found Jimmy Hoffa?
And it's Swirly!? OMG - is she typing from the endzone of Giants Stadium?
Nah
Mythbusters used underground radar to probe the endzones (and the rest of the stadium) and found no pockets of missing concrete that you would expect to find if a body had been buried (and rotted) within the foundation. They knew what to look for because they buried a pig carcass in the sidewalk outside of their studio/facility as a controlled test (leading to complaints from the other tenants that caused them to relocate to a new facility).
You know who doesn't have independent unions?
China.
Yeah. I've heard they install nets around their factories to prevent the suicide jumpers from hurting anyone walking out the front door. But, I guess that demonstrates they don't need stupid unions in order to get safety measures in place, right?
Hey, and in 2008 they finally got a labor law passed. So...that's something.
fair comparison...
Because the US is JUST like China in every other way, but the ability to form unions.
Sorry
Life is messier than a thought experiment or controlled scientific environment.
The rest of us will make due with applicable comparisons. You'll just have to always wonder if unions are why 12 year olds are making your shoes or if it's the fact that rice is their main staple instead of corn.
Thats if Veolia
allows them back to work, they violated their contact and can be fired. The ball is really in Veolia's court, im assuming they will make a statement at some point today.
Everyone is Ronald Reagan: "Fire Them!" they say.
Under their contract and the current conditions, school bus drivers do not have the right to a wildcat strike. Nonetheless, they did file a complaint with the NLRB, so it's not clear to me that they're illegible to be fired.
I hope we get our school bus drivers back on the job tomorrow because keeping kids out of school is not an acceptable collateral damage. At the same time, the NLRB must adjudicate their complaint promptly.
A proportional consequence, but not their employment, could be extracted as a disincentive and warning to other labor unions for ill-conceived job actions that do not comply with labor law.
Uncertainty, uncertainty, uncertainty.
Let's move on to the next question.
Given the tone that this dispute has taken on (now some of the rank and file appear to be defying their own union), who is eager to put their kid(s) onto one of these buses, even if they actually run tomorrow morning? Today it's a wildcat strike - tomorrow, might it be some number of drivers who decide that they "are not going to drive my bus full of school children another inch" or some other ridiculous thing?
As I have said before, it is, more than anything else, the uncertainty that surrounds public schooling in Boston that compels so many young families (you know, that "middle class" that everyone professes to want to keep in the city) to flee to the suburbs.
This is just another example of that uncertainty.
I trust the people who drive my kid's bus.
I'm not sure if I would trust a replacement employee.
Ever hear of a CORI check?
They aren't instantaneous, that's for sure. So this sudden wave of properly-checked people with anti-perv credentials and driving licenses for transport would come from ... where exactly?
So yes, agreed that the current drivers are better than some guy pulled off the street without credentials - as if they would just toss them on the buses like that.
I love how some people think that just anyone can drive a school bus.
CORI, etc.
Swirls (I'm adopting another poster's name for you, because I think it works!), I don't think that you comment was directed at me, but I thought I should mention that the CHSB does have the capacity to run a CORI essentially instantaneously, and has done so in special circumstances (in my past professional experience, and the check was not on me). You are correct, however, in that they do not typically do this in the normal course of business.
All of that said, I still think there is a good chance that some of the wildcats from today are going to lose their jobs.
CORI only one requirement
While I agree that some wildcatters will likely lose their jobs (and maybe they should), it isn't simply isn't possible to fire the entire group in one swoop and get replacement drivers (aka scabs) on the buses by tomorrow morning.
You would need to find and recruit a sufficient number of unemployed people with the right licenses and with the ability to pass that CORI check and get their verification of right to work in the US overnight. That's a tall order.
Probably not gonna happen.
CORI checks ARE instantaneous
CORI checks, along with Interstate Identification Index ("Triple I") checks of criminal records in the other 49 (or is it 56?) states are instantaneous when requested by police. Since Ed Davis has never said "no" to Menino, it could be done in no time.
Too bad Menino doesn't have the courage of Reagan
Order the drivers to report back to work immediately or be terminated, as did AFL-CIO life member President Ronald Reagan in the 1981 Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) strike in 1981. After the lessons of PATCO, with thousands of air traffic controllers fired for jeopardizing public safety with their illegal strike, my guess is many of the 600 drivers would return and those who didn't could be easily replaced in this economy. Grow a set, Menino.
Death of the American Middle
Death of the American Middle Class started when Reagan fired the PATCO controllers. Enjoy your retirement as a McDonald's burger-flipper or a Wal-mart greeter.
The death of the middle class
The death of the middle class started with unrealistic expectations built upon the postwar boom when the US had no industrialized competitors left standing.
Unrealistic? Yeah, heaven
Unrealistic? Yeah, heaven forbid that someone should expect that working a steady job should be enough to buy a home, raise a family and retire, just because millions of people were able to do so during the longest period of prosperity in our nation's history.
Might as well wish for a unicorn, too, huh?
You're pretty good at talking
You're pretty good at talking about what people should expect out of life.
And you're pretty good at...
And you're pretty good at... what now?
Don't argue with crazy
This guy is sitting at home fat, dumb, and happy on his union pensions and or disability payments that came from the union he was a member of while being a cop.
Somehow, that's different though.
Happy?
He never seems happy when he posts on here.
Re: Don't argue with crazy
Crazy? Fat? Dumb? Disabled? I love it Swirly, name calling, the last refuge of the out-argued! Liberals, tolerant as long as you agree with them. As for Vaughn, don't mistake my unwillingness to play along with the libs for unhappiness. Life is good and I'm quite happy, sir. I appreciate your concern though.
So you haven't heard the phrase before?
Well then, let's say that you are adiposity challenged with reduced intellectual capacity, but increased capacity for enjoyment.
Oh, and please explain to the class why you are playing this "I hate unions" game while you are feeding off of the hard work of a union? Unless you are refusing your pension and benefits on moral grounds just to take a noble stand.
Good point
Because if there's one event that a large (and growing) number of historians and economists are agreeing to, regarding the start to our current economic woes, it's the firing of the ATC workers by Reagan. Union busting has led to decades of economic downturn for the middle class and a concentration of money and power with the corporate heads.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/opinion/reagan-v...
Also, aren't you a cop? A unionized government job? And you don't find that hypocritical?
Middle class "shrunk" upward under Reagan
Actually, middle class income grew significantly under Reagan and any shrinkage of the middle class was upward. Public sector union membership is also up dramatically since Reagan. Conversely, private sector union membership has plummeted as outrageous union demands have driven millions of jobs overseas and forced bankruptcy on the unionized manufacturers, airlines etc. that remained. Yes, I'm a retired cop and proud union member who gladly worked, many a night, weekend and Christmas but never went on strike. If I did, I'd expect termination as should the bus drivers. As Reagan, a former labor union president, said in his speech, linked in my earlier post, he supported the rights of private sector workers to strike but government employees are different. I agree.
because somebody randomly said so on Yahoo
You do realize how that ask thing works at Yahoo, right?
But it was on the internet, therefore it MUST be true.
See also "wikipedia reference".
Union membership
Yeah...because private union membership disappearing and public union membership rising couldn't possibly be correlated at all. As companies blew up more and more union contracts, people retreated to the safety of public union contracts where the government wasn't allowed to act like a robber baron and actually had to abide by its own rules. The government job became the safe one with guarantees (because of the unions) while the private jobs became the wild west with companies treating their employees like temps (because the unions were gone).
In theory, I agree that public unions are unnecessary. The government employer is supposed to be "the people" and the employees are also "the people", therefore "we" would never treat "ourselves" poorly. Unfortunately, there are assholes with opinions like yours that think "the government" (us) is the problem and therefore 'we" should get more for "our" tax money while also paying less because "they" are costing "us" too much. So, how are "they" to protect themselves from being ripped off the same as any private non-union employee if we didn't have a public union looking out for "them"? So, in theory, great idea...in practice, a total failure because "we" are greedy and unwilling to let "them" be treated fairly because "we" are squeezed by private companies...so why should "they" be any different just because they work for the government (us).
What?
So in your world, people are clamoring to get into public union jobs and escape the clutches of the evil private sector? Can't say that's my experience.
You don't think there's any validity to the argument that tax payers should have any concern about where their money is going? The problem isn't that there is a government which offers services, it's that the government fritters away money like it's free and the system is often gamed to maximize individual gain (see temporary promotions prior to retirement, bodybuilders on physical disability, etc...) Can you specifically point out an example of some exploited city worker who is cruelly overworked and underpaid? Or is it just that as soon as there weren't union protections, the (Democratic) mayor would instantly strip away all worker rights and protections?
History also shows that the
History also shows that the increase in average atmospheric temperatures is directly correlated with the decline in the pirate population.
http://sparrowism.soc.srcf.net/home/piratesarecool...
It's fact, you can't argue with that.
Everyone knows...
What really did those pirates in were those decades of demanding fat-cat union high-wages and pensions... ;-)
their union already did...
As loath as I am to defend Mr. Menino, the union already ordered the workers to go back to work. Right up in the original posting, there is a copy of a letter from the union clearly stating that this is an authorized wildcat strike and that they should return to work immediately.
Ah yes
All unions are useless because quite a few of the current ones are corrupt and only concerned about the welfare of their own and enriching their leaders (the same as the government and big business, I might add). But unions are no longer needed? Because there are no underpaid, poorly treated workers in this country with few rights and no benefits? Oh wait... The white/middle class privilege in these union discussions is overwhelming. I expected better of the posters on here, and I am not sure why.
Funny because I'm always
Funny because I'm always hearing how unions are trying to keep minorities out in Boston.
There is a happy medium, you
There is a happy medium, you know. I read these posts - one extreme to another.
That is the problem with most everything today..Yes, unions were valuable - in their time and maybe for some unskilled low wage workers who find themselves at the mercy of their employer. I tend to think most of the middle class you speak of never belonged to a union and have no need - at least in the private sector. I don't see myself ever joining a union. I wouldn't fit in with a union for one.
There are an enormous amount of people
in this country at the mercy of their employer. Times are a changin', again. And of course most of the white collar middle class has never belonged to a union or feels "they wouldn't fit in with one (what does that even mean?)" it's why so many middle class white people demonize unions as a whole and claim "their time has passed". Right wing propaganda (with absolutely no help from the left wing) doesn't help. Luckily the way things are going, middle class white people will no longer determine the fate of this country.
Sheesh.
Not one remark regarding "being thrown under the bus"? Not one? Head to the coffee machine, folks ...
I hope the drivers
return to work tomorrow. It's really disruptive to both the kids who are at school and those who can't get there to have them out. I can't even begin to think what parents are doing if they need to work and can't get their kids on the bus! The bus drivers have gotten Veolia's attention if that's what they wanted. But if they wanted sympathy for their cause, there are a lot of parents who aren't feeling very supportive.
I'd like to know what the
I'd like to know what the average attendance rate was in the BPS today. At my school, it was surprisingly good. Maybe, just maybe, BPS parents & students are more resourceful than many people give them credit for.
Let's ask the mayor
82%, compared to a normal 92%.
Pretty good, I'd say. And
Pretty good, I'd say. And raises an interesting question about the real need for so many buses and drivers. It was certainly easier to get around Boston yesterday without them on the roads!
A teacher at my school told
A teacher at my school told me last week that the late bus tried to drop one of the students off in South Boston. This bus was only supposed to drop students off in Dorchester and East Boston. They need to be tracked.
Well the buses are rolling
Well the buses are rolling today, yet many people are calling for the workers' heads on platters, everyone is a labor lawyer. The powers that be want Boston to be perceived as a forward world class city , yet they allow this to happen. This action is well beyond the issues of dollars , its about how people are respected in the city of Boston. People need to work for a society to function , and workers need to have dignity . There are Greenways , murals on the Greenways, random pianos on the streets , and all other sorts of la da la cultural bullshit propping up the facade, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts , the wee people just trying to make their daily bread ,it looks like BPS and the other big cheeses fail the course. The taxpayers should look beyond the wildcatting workers and see the essence of the issue , and not allow this mentality , instead of taking the easy way out , blaming it on unionism. I have said I was against the busing before it started, because it was a social experiment cloaked in the pretense of equality and opportunity, when it was just a deflection and avoidance of the responsibilities and capabilities of the powers that were, to put out a quality product of education , instead of diluting it. But these people have nothing to do with that, they are entitled by a Greater Power , that need no election to any man made office , to work with dignity and respect. This was a drastic action , at least respect the fact that these people had the cojones to stand up for what they believed , and maybe give a thought to why they did it. Not that I am a labor lawyer, but maybe they all had a drink of water from the water bubbler that hasn't had its filter changed in a decade and got a stomach problem.
My take away
A big FU to BPS parents who had to miss work at all kinds of jobs yesterday, white and blue collar, to make arrangements for their kids' transportation.
The drivers are members of a union, an entity whose primary purpose is to represent them in labor grievances. If that's not effective, why are they members of the Steelworkers union? If the union is a good thing for them, then why the need to ruin everyone else's day instead of working through the accepted channels? This isn't under-represented group of migrant farm workers here.
I have no more respect for these people than I do for the GOP that shut down the government - its the same principle at work.