State House News Service reports the T will run subways, the Silver Line and 15 bus routes until 3 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays in a one-year pilot.
WBUR talks to T General Manager Beverly Scott, who says she hopes the year-long pilot is the first step in a long-term journey towards 24-hour mass transit in the Boston area.
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So when do we find out
By GoSoxGo
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:12am
the "select" bus routes are that will be running as part of the pilot program? The only thing I have seen regarding this has been some vague references to "15 busiest bus routes." While this sounds appropriate, demographics need to be considered.
Of the top 15 bus routes, two are Silver Line routes (SL1 and SL5). The SL5 will probably get ridership but not the SL1. Nearly a third of the routes are based in Roxbury and Dorchester. Many of these routes are skewed by the amount of schoolchildren that use these lines. Would demand be there at 2am?
One reason I ask is purely selfish, as I live in South Boston and would use the #9 bus if it will be one of the "select" routes. It did have Night Owl service back in the day, although I lived in Cambridge at the time and did use the overcrowded (!) Red Line Night Owl bus. The problem with the #9 is that it does not technically fall in the Top 15.
The MBTA Blue Book (last published in 2010) shows that the last rider count on the #9 was performed in Spring of 2006 for weekdays and Winter 2008 on Saturdays (2004 on Sundays)! Southie has grown tremendously since then and many who have moved there forego a car and rely on the T. I would not be surprised if 1,000 more people take the #9 daily now as opposed to 8 years ago.
Bus service to Southie is generally bad to begin with. The #9 is almost always standing room only between 5:30 am and 10 pm. I know, because I take the 5:35 am bus twice a week to work, and take a 1:30 pm and 10 pm bus on other days. One night last week, I waited 38 minutes on Herald Street as of the 2(!) buses on the route, one was running on-time and the other was 15 minutes late. I've seen these two buses run less than 5 minutes apart before, with a 50-minute gap afterwards. One of my friends watched 5 (!) full buses drive by D St. a couple of weeks ago during rush hour before 45 minutes later one stopped.
Hopefully the T will announce the routes shortly (or at least put something on their website), and late night service (yes, it's only a couple of hours two nights a week -- but it's a start) will help.
Silver line South Station to Airport
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:15am
That should be 24/7 no excuses.
OK, I'll give you the SL1
By GoSoxGo
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:37am
as the airport is important, and workers and travelers alike will benefit. But as the T likes to consider the Silver Line a "rapid transit" service, I wonder if it would even label it a "bus" for this program, or as a "subway" line that run late anyway.
buses
By Saul
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:19am
http://www.wbur.org/2014/03/13/mbta-late-night
If this is the actual list
By GoSoxGo
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:48am
(which is not published on the MBTA web site) does this mean that South Boston will be completely ignored? Is the Silver Line involved? (see comments above). The #9 starts in Copley Square and connects with the Green, close to the Orange, Silver and Red Lines, as well as serving the busy Broadway corridor.
32 and not 34?
By adamg
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:16am
So no service down one of the busiest (at least during the day) bus corridors out of Forest Hills?
they neglect the total ridership of the buses
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 3:57pm
that run between rozzie square and forest hills - instead focusing on ridership of single bus lines. I've raised this issue with the T a couple times and they've never responded. Maybe you can do better.
here are the numbers from 2010:
http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/documents/bluebo...
the 32 bus sees 7000 boardings a day, which puts it at #9 - the 34 only sees 3,500 - but if you add up the 34E and the 34 and the 40 (which more or less share the exact same route), you get around 8,200 (which would place that combined line in the top 10), and if you start adding up other lines that run through the square:
let's start with the 35, 36, and 37 (which share the same route for a few miles - the 35 actually joins up with the 34 and 34E after making a detour through west rox) - that's 2,200, 3,000, 1,400 = 6,600 - another candidate for late night service.
then you have the 30 and the 51 - both around 2000. that's another 4,000. all added together, you have around 18,800 riders on lines that pass through the square on a daily basis - I assume only a small fraction of these riders never actually pass through the square - but I'm sure the T has boarding statistics at forest hills for each of these lines - and all of those riders pass through rozzie square.
as an aside - this is one reason why rozzie square needs an orange line stop.
Subway, SL, key buses
By Matthew
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:01pm
And the list of buses is identical to the list of "key bus routes" which were designated a number of years ago by the T as being special. I don't know the reasons why those 15 were chosen, and not others, but that's how it is. Yes, I know it misses out on some pretty important bus trunk corridors, like Washington Street towards Roslindale, as Adam points out.
South Boston is not served by any key bus routes (although the 9 and the 7 are pretty important). My understanding, though, is that the residents of South Boston hate buses and anything that might possibly take away a few parking spaces.
I also seem to recall that the old Night Owl buses of 2001 originally had a route 9 but that was abandoned very early in the program. Maybe this time it will be different and they will add route 9 due to popular demand.
The key bus routes were
By J
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:25pm
The key bus routes were simply the 15 lines with highest ridership and most frequent service.
Eh, not quite
By Matthew
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:39pm
For example, the 9, 70, and 86 non-key routes are currently listed as having more ridership than the 71, 73 key bus routes. On the other hand, that may be due to changes in ridership in recent years. And the 71, 73 are "special" already by virtue of being trolleybuses (under normal circumstances).
the 34, 34E, and 40 all share
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 4:06pm
the 34, 34E, and 40 all share the same route - all combined it would be ranked the 8th busiest. not to mention there are 6 other bus lines that run through rozzie square...
Alas...
By Div2Supt
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:44pm
The old Route 09N was a laughable failure. A 2003 count showed only an average of 5 pax. After ten years of intense development (perhaps too intense, but that's a debate for another time) and a steady stream of yuppies marching across the Broadway Bridge, potential ridership could be enough to warrant at least 30-minute late night headways. If demand grows, you could even whittle it down to every 20 minutes.
Picking the Key Routes was easy and seemed logical. "Those routes are wicked busy during the rush hours! So why not late at night, too?" Except now large areas (teeming with potential ridership, no less) have been left out. Live on Cedar Street in Somerville? Guess you'll have to snag a taxi from Davis or Sullivan. Making your way home to K Street and East Sixth? Better slip out of those heels and into your running shoes!
Hopefully, the ridership data and trends will speak for themselves in the end. Ideally, the network could be tweaked to better serve the area as a whole.
Cedar Street in Somerville
By Michael
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 4:31pm
They'll be fine once the Green Line extension is finished.
Well....more probably, their grandchildren will be fine once the Green Line extension is finished.
One Reason the #9 and Others Failed
By GoSoxGo
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 6:29pm
is because of the way the Night Owl was set up. All of the subway line buses originated in Govt. Center. Very convenient if you were actually in the Faneuil Hall area and needed to catch the bus home, but pretty useless otherwise. I know people who would be waiting for a Green Line bus in Copley Square to get to Govt. Center to connect to another line who were routinely passed up by the buses, which refused to stop unless someone was getting off the bus there. The other issue was there were no bus apps back then. There was no way of knowing when a bus would arrive -- if ever. Many people connect to the #9 from the subway -- most notably at Copley Square (the start of the route) and at Broadway (Red Line). I think the new system as planned would work quite well.
They're the already
By nathanw
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:54pm
They're the already-designated "key bus routes". http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/t_projects/?id=...
Other people have listed them, but it's not a new selection of routes for this project.
Global Business is 24 hours
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:14am
Many of the companies that are expanding their workforce in Boston have global coverage. That means shift work. That means people needing to arrive or leave at all hours.
I know at least three companies who would much rather expand their operations in Boston, but stay in NYC because their people can get around.
names or it didn't happen.
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:56am
names or it didn't happen.
which bus routes?
By DaveA
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:15am
I can't find an actual press release or any details...just curious--did the T list what bus routes will be involved?
In addition to the Silver
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:57am
In addition to the Silver Line, the 1, 15, 22, 23, 28, 32, 39, 57, 66, 71, 73, 77, 111, 116 and 117.
Both Silver Lines?
By Ron Newman
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:18am
both the one to the airport and the one on Washington St to Dudley?
so just have our wives take
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 10:42am
so just have our wives take the redline home alone after getting off work at the hospital at 3am. good idea.
How Does She Get Home Now?
By Elmer
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:04am
?
Because women are defenseless
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:15am
And crime is at record levels.
Try more reason and logic, less sexism please.
drives. no traffic at those
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 2:59pm
drives. no traffic at those hours.
24-hour service is a great
By PeterGriffith5
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:13pm
24-hour service is a great idea! All we need is some new trains, new tracks and perhaps some new employees.
In the meanwhile, instead of working with all haste to bring the equipment up to something that approaches reliability, we are expanding the Green Line to medfuh and the commuter rail to New Beige. I am generally in favor or expanded public transportation, but it's clearly wrongheaded to spend transportation money for projects until the existing crumbling system is not repaired.
Translation
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:19pm
Blah blah blah If I ran the world blah blah I'm ignoring people who were supposed to get service years ago because ME! blah blah blah.
Talk to the car drivers
By Kaz
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 3:51pm
They wanted to drive downtown and through town more and more. The highway had to be replaced and expanded. The only way that's allowed is to mitigate the extra cars by expanding things like public transportation offerings. It was supposed to be part of the cost of upgrading the highway, however the State never wanted to actually do that work to begin with. So, the first chance it got, it dropped the problem on the MBTA's doorstep and ran off calling the Big Dig a victory.
The projects you are talking about are due to the Big Dig highway improvements, not because someone at the MBTA is a moron at placing expansion priorities above maintenance.
Speaking of stupidity.
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 1:57pm
Regarding to "your" response to "Vicious Circle". So, in your (obviously correct) opinion, you think the T should just "flip the switch" and start running 24/7 without extra personnel? That's basically what I'm saying. The T has some huge problems now, crime, people jumping the gates, etc. Oh, and that pesky thing - that they never make any money. If this were retail, would you be so sarcastic (and not so bright) to suggest that if shoplifting were happening, it would be no big deal if the items being stolen were only a couple of bucks? I'm not saying give up on the idea, I'm saying make it run well, which, (as others have pointed out) the T doesn't do a very good job of even with their "limited" current hours. But, hey, you're not worried about it..you don't need the T when you've got a high horse!
No, they should not, yet
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 2:46pm
Obviously they can't just start running 24/7 as is. The tracks are not designed for it, right now. Buses, like in Philly, would probably be better off anyway for the late, late night stuff. What we don't need is a bunch of extra station attendants standing around picking their noses on the taxpayer dime, as you seem to want.
The biggest problems are deferred maintenance and not enough service. Not crime, as it ain't the dirty 1970s anymore, and not fare evasion. I jumped on your obsession over fare evasion, cause you ought to know that trying to wipe out evasion is impossibly expensive. It's not worthwhile to spend more money on chasing fare evaders than you get back from them.
If I was running a shop, and my problem was someone lifting a two dollar item every so often, and I had to hire a $100 per hour employee to catch them, then yeah you bet I would just let it go. If I was spending $800 a day to catch a few punk kids who steal candy, I'd soon be out of business.
So Then, Remove The Fare Gates And Make It Free To Ride The Ⓣ
By Elmer
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 3:47pm
It's an option worth considering; it would completely eliminate the huge cost of fare collection, and it would likely boost ridership. Otherwise, why should all the honest passengers pay when scofflaws can easily ride for free?
When fare jumpers are caught by the Ⓣ Police, they're frequently wanted for other crimes, so tightly controlling the entry system can potentially make the overall system safer. But when the fare gates are broken and/or left wide open with no control, it defeats the purpose of having them there in the first place.
That's the other extrme
By anon
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 3:55pm
I think the T gets enough back that it is worhtwhile to put some effort into getting fares. They just should not go to the extreme of spending more money on fare collection than they get in return. Most people, like our friend above, don't think about the costs of enforcement, they just see some guy go around the fare gates, and they get upset that shit happens, and they whine about it.
The fare gates are left wide open on new years eve, the system runs late, and it seems to work out well. Much better to have people on the T than on the road, drunk.
HubWay is the answer!
By Markk02474
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 7:02pm
Shouldn't Hubway be used by the small number of people needing personal transportation during off hours, instead of MASS transport? Put HubWay stations in locations you think need to have extended hours. Problem solved. Oh, and especially when Hubway adds mopeds to stations to legally serve people with disabilities.
Keep Digging
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 7:05pm
Most folks already think you are a "crank from Arlington".
Just keep cranking up the inane clueless babble.
Hubway shuts down for similar reasons that motorcycles - and mopeds - can't run well in the winter.
But keep deluding yourself that expensive spacehogging individual solutions are the only ones in an old city. We will keep laughing at you.
So empty 4mpg buses are the answer?
By Markk02474
Fri, 03/14/2014 - 4:00am
Bus and train transportation are inefficient when lightly loaded. The buses get about 4 MPG, while cars are mostly 20-35 mpg, and fuel injected Yamaha mopeds are well over 100 mpg. That doesn't even consider the cost of the drivers. Subway trains are not so light and efficient either when empty. There is a reason why the MBTA is the biggest electricity user in the whole state. Yeah, I'm sarcastic, but at least not a delusional dreamer out of touch with reality. Late night service won't make sense until local cities allow places to stay open late. Get local colleges to agree to make every student buy an annual T pass. Then, after a few years for people to get into the habit of staying out late, there might be enough ridership. Increase ridership again by lowering the drinking age back to 18. Until all the other components for success are getting into place, take that $20 M that late service would cost and put it into maintenance so many thousands of people get more reliable service between 7 AM and 7 PM. Walsh is just looking for headlines during his mayoral honeymoon period - late night service is for him not the gullible public.
I just noticed...
By Karl
Sat, 03/15/2014 - 5:56pm
That in the new program on the extended hours, if your train breaks down, and you miss your final bus and you're not on one of the key routes on those nights, you're screwed. That's right, they are NOT holding ANY buses at those times on what is technically early Saturday and Sunday mornings (but is considered Friday and Saturday by MBTA scheduling). So if you are not on a key route or right off the subway, be prepared to take a cab anyway. Just that you won't have to take a cab as far. So in a way that is kind of a victory. Note that they ARE holding the buses at the normal times on non-extended mornings, and the key routes will have their final buses held as well on the extended mornings.
At least it's a step in the right direction, although I do see a valid point in wanting to fix the infrastructure and vehicles, but this extra time will mean extra revenue (not much, but every little bit counts). At least it's not that stupid bus thing where you couldn't even use your monthly passes. I think THAT was what killed it, in fact.
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