By adamg on Wed., 7/9/2014 - 7:50 am
WCVB reports, says the T is also investigating Transit Police officers who liked the post about Father's Day in Roxbury or commented on it.
Topics:
Neighborhoods:
Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
Ad:
Comments
A racist AND a crap speller.
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 8:56am
A racist AND a crap speller. Just the person to be teaching at the MBTA training program.
Conservative pearl-clutchers who think this is a free speech issue start whining in 5...4...3...
The internet is public and
By gotdatwmd
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:06am
The internet is public and people should be smart enough to know what to post publicly and as a member of the community meant to protect and serve that local area, it was a dumb thing to post.
That being said I can't count how many times in my life I've heard variations of that one liner from individuals from all walks of life.
You have heard this so many
By anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:38am
You have heard this so many times you can't even count the number? You must surround yourself with racists.
No, I don't.
By gotdatwmd
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:50am
No, I don't. It's a joke. I think Patrice O'Neil had a variation of it on stage as well.
I've heard it a bunch of times...
By dmcboston
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:43am
I knew a Vietnam vet that made it about 'going on a Pacific cruise on Father's Day (note spelling) to get my Father's Day presents from my kids'.
It was self depreciating humor more than aimed at a specific community. OTOH, he really didn't like the Vietnamese, for some reason.
Variations or not, doesn't
By flo
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 3:16pm
Variations or not, doesn't make it right.
Obama
By bulgingbuick
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:35am
socialists, constitution, illegal, Marsha, Duval, Ebt, Ebt,Ebt....Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Um...
By dmcboston
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:52am
Huh? Is this some kind of rant against conservatives? Cause then I guess the answer is "Bushhitler, Cheney, Kock, Kock, Kock, ad infinitum".
Oh, the WMD Iraq problem? Hillary, Kerry, Bush were right all along. Watch for fun updates from your new ISIL Caliphate.
All of which has little to do with an MBTA police instructor with little common sense. See? Try to stay on topic.
How
By bulgingbuick
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:58am
do you breathe inside that bubble?
FYI: you spelled Koch wrong
By anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 12:37pm
FYI: you spelled Koch wrong in your witty reply.
Racist?
By anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 1:22pm
How is stating an inconvenient truth racist? Roxbury is well-known for its huge population of illegitimate babies on the dole.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit
By adamg
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 7:54pm
Back in my day, racists were proud to be racists. What the hell is wrong with today's youth?
If you want to be a racist, fine, own up to it and wear your racism proudly - on your head, in the form of a white sheet. If nothing else, it'll save the rest of us the trouble of pointing out that people who make statements like this guy did are, in fact, racist.
Bullshit?
By Anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 8:36pm
Citation please! Median income for that particular zip code, average household size, percentage of single mother households? Screaming bullshit and lobbing a bunch of insults won't do!
Here's why I yell bullshit
By adamg
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:22pm
Without bothering to look up the statistics or do anything that would involve actual research, I will concede that poor neighborhoods have higher percentages of what many people would consider indications of social ills, including single parenthood.
But let's be honest here: People defending this guy are not just pointing this out because they deeply care about fixing the problems of poverty in Boston. I will even be so bold as to say they don't give a shit about the community the comment is about. They are doing so because it's become the social acceptable way to be a racist: Say something racist and then, when called on it, go all cutesy and go "facts are fact, just sayin'. Who's the racist now?"
How come nobody ever demands the white community do something about the troubling propensity of its young men to commit mass murders? Where were all the cracks about how dangerous the white community is thanks to incidents like the South Boston guy biting off and swallowing somebody's lip in a bar fight?
Like I said, if you're going to be a racist, cut the crap and be honest about it.
White community
By Anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:47pm
There's plenty of demands to do something about white mass murderers, they're everywhere if you just pull your head out of the sand and start seeing everything instead of only things that you want to see. Also, deaths due to gun-toting "victims of racism" outnumber those due to white mass murderers by a factor of 500 at the very least, and that south boston nutjob of yours got a longer sentence for biting a lip off than many get for pumping someone full of lead. And while that cop's comment is indeed racist, it's no worse than comments we all hear from blacks about whites every damn day of the week, so go find a napkin and wipe those white guilt tears of yours.
Yes.
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:34pm
Yes.
Edited to say-- yes to Adam's comment, not the apologist above.
South Boston
By Sheckie
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 11:01am
It's always South Boston playing the boogie man here.
SpellCheck_OFF
By flo
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 3:15pm
Perfect response. faRther??? Was he really serious, or so hate-filled that he didn't bother proofreading his rant? Laughing my butt completely off at a fool who becomes the joke. Get an education. In fact, his punishment should be to write FATHER on a post card and hand it to every single child in Roxbury AND he MUST look them in their eyes. Oh my goodness, what a dunce!
exam
By fanonscudder
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:17am
is spelling on the civil service exam?
Noe.
By dmcboston
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:25am
Noe.
No, the civil service exam
By Refugee
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:26am
No, the civil service exam does not test for spelling.
Do you hurl insults at your coworkers and bosses whenever they send you a text/email containing a typo or autocorrect error? That's an even faster way to get fired.
Well ...
By tired of this bs
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:59am
There is that time that my boss purchased wiring and hardware supplies, and put on his expense report that he spent $326 at Gaybar ...
That's legendary.
In my line of work
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 1:54pm
A grammatical error gets one a well-deserved razzing from ones' co-workers.
what I don't understand
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:19am
While I understand Roxbury is a predominately black community, I'm not sure how race is involved here.
Yes with broad assumptions and insinuations, sure its a bad comment. But if you didn't know Roxbury was a black community would this still be a valid point?
I honestly (and I wait to be flamed on this) this is making a [i]broad[/i] assumption about what he said and putting words in his mouth. Sure its [i]assumed[/i] that's what he meant but it isn't clearly what he meant it. B
Then to now chastise the fellow officers for liking the post.. again, making a very broad assumption about what those offices were saying and feeling.
I really wonder how far this will go. Again not saying its right or OK but there's a fine line between what was really said and what was insinuated.
Say you're a black man
By Brian Riccio
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:25am
which I know you're not, would you want to be pulled over by this "officer"? And there is no fine line, he insinuated that Father's Day is confusing in Roxbury because none of "them" know who their real fathers are. The man should be fired.
Irrelevant
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:32am
Your question is irrelevant. I understand what is insinuated, but it wasn't what was said. Where did he say race? He didn't.
Again you are ASSUMING this is what he meant. You're putting words into people's mouths. You can't do that.
The law will see this as face value.. nothing more, nothing less.
Again not sticking up the guy, but again the court (and if he's fired, he will sue) will only see this as face value and nothing more. Stop trying to insert words or insinuating what he MIGHT have meant because it doesn't hold water.
dog whistle
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:48am
Cybah, I would say that the increased use of racist dog-whistling since the first Obama campaign, by people who think they're being coy in their bigotry, means that now we must call them out.
That this cop didn't not use an all-caps slur does not mean what he wrote isn't racist. By specifically citing Roxbury-- not Beacon Hill, not Allston, not the North End-- he wanted the people who read the post to make the connection. Then he wanted to be able to claim that he didn't mean anything racist, it's all you nasty racists reading something into it!
So, I'll adjust my first statement: he's a racist, a crap speller, and a coward.
Are you inside his head?
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:52am
Are you inside his head? Do you know this for fact? Unless he admits to it, its all speculation.
You don't. It's just ASSUMED this is what he did. Not fact. Courts only care about facts, not assumptions.
So again, stop making broad assumptions about this situation
And btw let me clear the air, I personally could care less about this guy and yeah if this is what he meant to say, sure I hope they can his ass. But what I AM trying to point out is that the assumption that goes along with this and why you can't punish someone for an assumption because this is not what its said.
Yes, we are ALL inside this
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:54am
Yes, we are ALL inside this small corner of the guys head because he invited us there. That's what dog whistling is.
when you're the only one hearing dog whistles
By aging cynic
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 9:22am
it would seem to indicate that you're someone's b!tch.
Adam....
By Michael Kerpan
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 9:51am
... is it okay for posters to call other posters a "bitch"?
Just wondering.
Mr freedom-of-speech-aging-cynic seems to be "testing the limits".
We can just be gracefully "politically correct"
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 9:58am
And ignore it because we make allowances for the fact that this particular poster is quite clearly grappling with numerous intellectual and behavioral challenges when facing discussion in an adult setting.
Clear reference to the black community
By JCK
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:15am
I don't think there's much room for debate here, quite honestly.
If you don't think he was referring specifically to the black community, how do you interpret his post?
Not for me
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:27am
My personal opinion has little to do with this and how I interpret this
Your word... interpret is exactly what I am trying to explain. For each person it could mean something different. This is what I amt trying to say.
Someone in Roxbury would interpret this far different than someone in say Seattle.
Understand?
Don't see why you're trying
By Finn
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:16am
Don't see why you're trying to be so clever. It is well known locally that the residents of Roxbury are primarily African-American. The cop knows that that's how people perceive it, otherwise the joke doesn't work.
wow
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:42am
What part of this do people not understand?
I'm not trying to be clever. I'm trying to point out that at face value it means virtually nothing. Take it at face value and it removes all the connotations about it. Yet people keep trying to throw arguments at me varying from "its a local comment only locals will understand" to dvdoffs way out there dunkin donuts comment.
It just doesn't fly. Sorry. Don't make assumptions about something you aren't 100% sure about, regardless if its 'local lore' or not. Local Lore does not make it factual.
Bottom line: Unless he comes right out and admits it OR someone finds a way to be inside his brain to 100% understand what he meant OR they find other supporting issues (i.e. previous similar encounters or posts).
So stop making extremely broad assumptions that aren't based on fact. Just stop.
Then again, to this crowd (Uhubbers) who often take many other posters comments out of context and insert their own words/thoughts/ideas into it... it's just another bark in the kennel. In short, I don't think people understand the whole point I am trying to make because they do in other places too. (hard to see when you have blinders on)
Regardless, I'm done with this discussion. I've said what I wanted to say and I'm done. Thanks for a lively debate on a typically boring Wednesday morning.
Just one more:
By Finn
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 3:13pm
Just one more:
"So stop making extremely broad assumptions that aren't based on fact. Just stop."
Could you forward that to the cop you are so vigorously and mysteriously defending?
Objective vs. Subjective
By JCK
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:34am
Yes, it's (theoretically) possible he meant something different from the black community. But that not an objectively reasonable position to take.
How someone in Seattle would interpret his statement is entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with this.
You're being too clever by half here. No one else seems confused by his intent.
Intent doesn't matter
By eekanotloggedin
Thu, 07/10/2014 - 3:25pm
It doesn't matter one bit if I say that I meant something to be a polite and inclusive statement if a sizable number of people are going to find it offensive. If that were the case, I could go around saying whatever I want about whatever demographic I want and be like, no, I didn't mean it offensively. But I can't, and I wouldn't, because words mean things.
And even if we take race out of the equation for the sake of your argument, is it appropriate to make comments that reasonable people find cringeworthy about a whole group of people, and then say that facts back it up? Various demographics have higher-than-average rates of mental illness, substance abuse, and whathaveyou, but on what planet is it OK to call people drunkards, junkies, deadbeats, or anything of the sort? You realize there's a huge difference, right, between saying that a particular ZIP code has more single-mother families than average, versus HURR HURR THEM PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHO THEIR DADS ARE. One is a fact. One is disrespectful and is showing that the speaker views a group of people as a "them." Once someone views someone as "the other," it's really easy to not treat that person the way you'd want your family members treated.
If you don't know the difference between these two kinds of statements, you shouldn't be working with the public either. The people of this city, especially the people of color, have the right to have a police force in which there's been at least some effort to hold officers to a standard of respecting all people.
Cut the crap
By Brian Riccio
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:49am
Ask anyone who has spent ten minutes around some of the old Dunkie's in this town and you know exactly what he meant. Take it from someone who lived in the Bunker Hill projects during busing, I know exactly what he meant. I've been hearing that same line about Roxbury since I was 5 years old.
Fine
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:55am
Again, courts and the law don't see it this way. Which is my point.
I'm well aware that its 'known' but again it was not said. Big difference.. you cannot tack on some 'assumption' because you heard it since you were five at an old school dunkin donuts. It just doesn't work that way. You need facts.
Let me regurgitate for you what I said above so my point drives home yet again
"And btw let me clear the air, I personally could care less about this guy and yeah if this is what he meant to say, sure I hope they can his ass. But what I AM trying to point out is that the assumption that goes along with this and why you can't punish someone for an assumption because this is not what its said."
His employer is not taking
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 9:58am
His employer is not taking him to court, and does not need to meet evidentiary standards. If this guy wants to fight it through his union or with a labor lawyer, fine, but that's not what's happening right now and his employer does not have to meet those standards at this time.
but if he's fired
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:00am
but if he's fired he will.
That doesn't matter right now
By bibliotequetress
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:16am
That doesn't matter right now. And, frankly, it will probably never get to court but will be resolved in union mediation one way or another, so it may never need to meet civil case standards. The employer is not obliged to go there right now.
But should it hit that point, well, other dog whistle cases have gone against the accused, so "that's not what I meant" when that is clearly what he meant might not fly in court either.
You'll excuse me
By Brian Riccio
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 10:24am
but ole Dunkie's is local street slang for cops. And the fact is that the cop made a racist comment on a public website and any Judge who has lived here longer than ten minutes will know what he meant. Certainly anyone from Roxbury will know what he meant. Do you spend a lot of time in Grove Hall?
Bingo
By bosguy22
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:02am
Who cares what people in Seattle would think, we don't live in Seattle. I could say "people in Roxbury love friend chicken and watermelon" and someone who lives in China may not be able to interpret my remarks. That doesn't make them right.
however
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:11am
This is why making broad assumptions is a bad idea, especially in cases like this.
Because you don't know how it will be interpreted and by who.
Are you really saying that
By Finn
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:20am
Are you really saying that anyone who's lived in this area for any length of time would read the cop's joke and say 'I don't get it'?
let's follow your logic
By anon
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 11:27am
so anyone could carry around, say, a noose through certain areas of the city.. without saying why, and that would be ok, right?
because, hey, I would be reading way too much into it to assume what it meant, and the poor fellow might just be a rope enthusiast.
Correct
By cybah
Wed, 07/09/2014 - 12:01pm
Because as I keep repeating.. I don't read between the lines and take people at face value.
You don't know people... seriously you don't. Maybe its time to stop making broad assumptions about people you don't know anything about just because they look/act/talk a certain way.
Its the same argument with people with expensive cell phones who use EBT. Everyone hates it, everyone makes comments about it, but yet no one bothers to fully understand WHY that is. Because maybe if you understood it, and didn't make broad assumptions about people you might have a better understanding of people.
Back to your point and the noose. Same thing.. unless you go and ASK them why they are carrying it around, you wouldn;t know. You'd just be left making your own assumptions about something you know little about.
Pages