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Bambi better run: State looks at letting hunters into Blue Hills Reservation
By adamg on Thu, 09/10/2015 - 2:13pm
The Patriot Ledger and WATD report DCR is looking at letting up to 240 hunters into the 6,000-acre reservation over a four-day period in early December to cull an expanding deer herd that officials say threaten both reservation habitat and public health.
DCR is planning public hearings on the proposal after first presenting it to elected officials in a private session. One of the public sessions is scheduled for Thursday, Sept. 24 at 6:30 p.m., at the Ponkapoag Golf Course, 2167 Washington St., Canton.
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I know that area like the back of my hand and am licensed. Will they increase the tag limit?
This is very necessary
The deer population is extremely high in the area - far higher than is sustainable. The Fells and surrounding neighborhoods are having the same issues and deer sightings and encounters are way up - my son left for school one morning, inadvertently cornered a doe who panicked and left some hoof marks on his chest. The tick problem is enormous, too.
However, they need to completely close the reservation during this hunt, and create a perimeter where the reservation meets residential areas. The population surrounding the area needs this buffer, and the people who will want to be hiking the trails or walking their dogs "off leash" will need to be kept clear of the area.
The probability of accidents with this cull is far higher than in areas of NH where everyone knows to wear blaze orange when in the woods in the fall, as this is an uncommon activity and the number of potential mistaken targets per square mile is vastly higher.
Or wolves?
Wolves aren't super likely to kill humans so I think just reintroducing them might be the safest option. Could go mountain lions if we want to spice up the thrill of hiking around here as a plan B.
Long shot - Boston Dynamics probably has already designed some terminators that they'd like to test out on live targets, but I think that would go over worse than Boston2024
Plenty of Coyotes, but that isn't the entire picture
At least in the Middlesex Fells Reservation, the deer populations have been producing fat packs (yes, packs ... or maybe groups .. they aren't strictly solitary) of Coyotes/Wolf hybrids for several years. It seems that the Wolfyotes or Coyves can't reproduce fast enough to control the deer population. (plenty of fat rabbits, too!)
There have been some recent publications about this phenomenon between prey and predator population numbers and how predators just don't reproduce fast enough to keep up. This appears to be a universal limitation that transcends ecosystems. http://phys.org/news/2015-09-ecologists-predator-prey-pattern-diverse-ec...
Yes!
I'd like to see this.
I don't think we need to have
I don't think we need to have the whole reservation shut down while the hunt is on, but I hope there are very visible posters at all trailheads telling people what's happening and giving safety tips. I think the buffer zone around residences is already taken care of by state hunting law, or at least by standard hunter safety training.
No I think we do!
Many (most?) people hiking in the Blue Hills are not expecting hunters to be out among them. The downside of closing the area for a few days is mitigated by removing the threat of some 5 year old in a brown jacket being shot.
Maybe my opinion is biased
Maybe my opinion is biased because I grew up in an area where hunting is common, but I would think that announcing the hunt and posting safety tips for other park users (wear bright colors, keep dogs leashed - like they're supposed to be anyway, wear a headlamp at dawn/dusk, don't wear white mittens, etc) would be enough.
Each of us could then make our own informed risk/reward decision. You're not comfortable in the woods with hunters, or you're worried about the kid in the brown jacket, you choose not to go in the reservation that day. I am dressed in all reflective orange and yellow clothes and wearing a head lamp for my run (not too far from the truth, cars scare me), so I can choose to proceed with caution.
The fact that Mass doesn't allow rifle hunting for deer is reassuring to me, too... there are fewer accidents when the bullet doesn't carry for miles.
This is not rural New Hampshire
It isn't rural Oregon, either. In such places, people know what to do and have the gear.
They are also fewer and much further between.
My husband's brother had about six orange vests by the back door and we would put them on to head into the woods after thanksgiving dinner or other autumn gathering. My family had blaze orange stuff around when we lived in rural areas. If you don't live in an area where hunting is a way of life, happens every year, and happens all the time, you don't just have this stuff. I also don't much trust the state to properly get the word out - what they consider "notification" is often pretty pathetic and limited to their in crowd.
BTW, the "white mittens" reference is nothing but a pile of victim blaming - the hunter that shot that woman was hunting illegally, as he was far too close to a house He also shot at something that shouldn't have been a target - I was strictly taught to shoot only when I had a solid target in sight (solid target being a forequarter or chest), not at "something that looked kinda like a deer's ass and moved". Shitty hunting, illegal hunting.
You may call it victim
You may call it victim blaming, but I never went into the woods during hunting season wearing white anything after that happened.
The part you missed
She was in her back yard. Her. Back. Yard.
The "hunter" was firing a weapon at an uncertain target, namely a part of a deer that you don't shoot at, within a few feet of several houses, including that of the woman who was IN HER BACK YARD.
But thanks for playing.
I don't understand why you're
I don't understand why you're picking a fight with me. I never said the hunters were in the right, and I don't see how that precludes taking reasonable precautions.
Because
No reasonable person should have to protect themselves from being shot in their own backyard
If it's the case I'm thinking of...
...ya, she was in her own backyard. Hanging clothes.
I can't remember if it was a 'clean' aim at her or some sort of odd 'magic bullet going very far' situation, but the bottom line... jury found him not guilty.
OK,UPDATE: Read Chaos's link. Yup, that's it. 1990 sounds right. She walked from the house to the woods, 50 yards. Not hanging clothes.
This hunt could go fine..good hunters, GPS maps of the area, stuff like that.
Even better, just put geraniums and marigolds in designated areas and wait.
I don't know why, but I also
I don't know why, but I also remembered this case happening while hanging clothes before I went and found a link.
These hunters are going to be
These hunters are going to be in a state park, not your backyard.
It's simple
it's a guess, but it's simple: you're taking a position advocating responsible precautions that tacitly accepts the presence of firearms and firearm owners out in the open going about their lawful business as part of the every-day and expected rather than invoking the name of the concept with the fear, dread, and loathing one usually reserves for the name of the Devil. Failing to do the latter sets off a certain class of people. Frequently the same sort of people that believe automobiles are a tool of the devil and the roads would run better without their presence.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
Cars and Guns scare me for the same reason: they are easily used to take a life and require pretty minimal certification to use (if we're assuming they are used legally, which obviously is not true in many cases for both). As such, I can't wait for the roads to be full of self piloting cars, and I say that as a regular driver (and former professional driver).
The Blue Hills Reservation, if I recall, is a moderately small, highly used area bounded by residences. What could possibly go wrong? Not that it's actually any worse than a normal day on Blue Hill Ave, just a few miles North.
Or, as our dear Tom Leher put it:
"And there's ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now,
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred Guernsey cow."
"The deer hunt would be the
"The deer hunt would be the first allowed in the reservation since a public agency acquired the land in 1893."
"Deer hunting is allowed at many other state parks and town forests as well, but officials acknowledged that few if any are as heavily used or as close to Boston as the Blue Hills."
"a resident of Green Street in Milton and the president of the Friends of Blue Hills" {snip} "initially opposed to any hunting in the reservation, but she said that after researching all the alternatives, including trapping and relocating the deer, she decided that hunting was the only way to get the population under control. Now, she and her neighbors arrange for bow hunters to thin the population of deer on their own land, killing 15 a year. "
http://www.patriotledger.com/article/20150909/NEWS/150906686/12662/NEWS#...
“There should be some public vetting of the plan,” [State Rep. Tackey] Chan said. “(Blue Hills) is a big, public space in an urban area that is heavily used. It’s not an open green space in Western Mass.”
http://www.patriotledger.com/article/20150902/NEWS/150908708/12662/NEWS
Bow hunting.
That's humane...
Now that I've had a bit of time to think about it, it's not a hunt. It's a strategic kill by DCR to cull the herd.
So, why treat it like a hunt? A bunch of hunters stalking deer is a hunt. This is more like a buffalo hunt.
Put down a salt lick, have one guy fifty yards away with a (licensed by DCR for this purpose) .30-06, bang, head shot, instant kill. No arrows sticking out of a wounded deer, no pain. You want sport? Hunt in season or in Maine with a .30.
Ya, it's cold, but you want to cull a herd as humanely as possible, right?
500 feet from a dwelling
Discharging a firearm within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling without consent of the owner is illegal per state law. (MGL Ch. 269 § 12E)
There's the citation I couldn
There's the citation I couldn't find. Thanks.
Loaner blaze orange
They could post signage and loaner blaze orange vests for people to wear on the trails that they could then leave when they exit the park. Alternately they could have the hunt in a subsection of the park and close just that to all but the hunters who got the permits (with a different section for the hunt each day).
"In a closed door meeting,
"In a closed door meeting, DCR officials revealed their plan to allow 240 hunters to hunt on designated Mondays and Tuesdays in December. The hunting would take place in the Milton, Canton and Quincy portions of the park."
1) Where are the 240 hunters going to park?
2) I think it good they are restricting it to low use days (Mondays and Tuesdays)
3) Milton, Canton and Quincy portions have Randolph Ave, Chickatawbut Rd, Wampatuck Rd, Hillside Rd, Unquity Rd are cross thru this area. Hunting laws say that hunters cannot "Discharge of any firearm or release of any arrow upon or across any state or hard-surfaced highway, or within 150 feet of any such highway, or possession of a loaded firearm, discharge of a firearm, or hunting on the land of another within 500 feet of any dwelling or building in use, except as authorized by the owner or occupant thereof. " so I think the cars traveling on the roads would be OK, however given the parking sitution, I would be concerned with the hunters traveling back to their cars. Even if they are wearing blaze orange. And I would be concerned with pets because they have less places that they can wear a lot of blaze orange.
Some answers to your questions.
There is plenty of parking at Houghton's Pond as well as nearby at the Trail Side Museum and at various trail heads in the reservation. The reservation is 6,000 acres with a variety of spots (along sides of roads) for folks to park. We are not talking about 2,400 hunters only 240.
Hunters travel in hunted woods, that is what they do and the majority know the rules. They wear bright clothes and they do not fire on something until they are sure it is a deer not a dog. They usually do not pick each other off either (but sometimes it does happen).
And keep your pets inside during the hunt if you are that nervous.
Send some of the hunters to Burlington
My parents counted a herd of just under two dozen deer passing through their yard in their relatively thickly settled suburban neighborhood (which backs up to 300 acres of Town-owned conservation land and Water Department property) last week. They did a number on their yew hedges and then ran out into the street. Several years ago, I came very close to hitting a deer (as in the deer's rump brushed the hood as it darted in front of me) with my father's car on Chandler Road there. I lived there for the first twenty-something years of my life and only saw deer in the area after I left.
Edit: Inserted description of the neighborhood and Street View.
Betting closes November 31
Over/under on the number of accidents, which I will define as unintentional shootings of non-deer mammals (dogs, cows, humans).
I'm taking the over at five.
how about bow hunting? or at least black powder?
I don't feel safe having people hunting in the Blue Hills with regular rifles. Would they shut the roads down? Doesn't it have to be a certain distance from the road anyhow?
I agree that the population needs to be controlled, but safely.
lol
Get real
Why not?
Why not? It has been a common way of allowing hunting without having guns. Weston has allowed it for the past few years.
State law sets a minimum
State law sets a minimum distance from a roadway which I believe is 100 yards.
Well, you know
safely for humans
Here are MA deer huntring rules
"The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters."
http://www.eregulations.com/massachusetts/huntingandfishing/deer/
You can't hunt with a rifle in MA.
n/t
"Discharge of any firearm or
"Discharge of any firearm or release of any arrow upon or across any state or hard-surfaced highway, or within 150 feet of any such highway"
Shootgun slugs
The plan outlined Wednesday calls for permits to be issued to hunters who would be split into two groups of 120, each allowed to hunt either on the first or second Monday and Tuesday of December. Each hunter would be given a designated territory in parts of the reservation in Quincy, Milton and Canton. {snip} For now, hunters would only allowed to use shotguns with slugs, not buckshot.
http://www.patriotledger.com/article/20150909/NEWS/150906686/12662/NEWS
~~~~~~~~~
Sticks to the Massachusetts hunting laws. Bow hunting is not allowed in December.
While most hunting occurs between October 1 and February 28, the most intensive hunting activity occurs during deer season. In general, deer season is:
Archery: Mid- October - first Saturday after Thanksgiving
Shotgun: First Monday after Thanksgiving - third Saturday in December
Muzzle Loader: Third Monday in December - December 31
http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dcr/massparks/recreational-activities/h...
They mainly use bow hunters.
They set up tree stands and occupy them at dusk and dawn.
Here's an example of typical rules from the town of Medfield.
http://www.town.medfield.net/index.cfm/page/FAQ/pid/21803
I met a bow hunter in Andover at Deer Jump Reservation a few years ago, not far from where the Boston cop was caught flogging his trouser trout.
The hunter's stand was in a wooded buffer zone behind one of the River Road office complexes.
They may use firearms out in rural MA but populated areas get bows and they shoot toward the ground.
Handguns allowed?
We always took a handgun along when bow hunting, because it was sometimes necessary to quickly euthanize a wounded animal.
Not likely.
Here's the relevant segment from Medfield, which is typical of others I've seen.
Metro Boston is a very densely populated area with firearm discharge prohibition in most towns (other than registered gun club ranges and a few Town Forests).
The main gun zones are in Wildlife Management Areas and it's still low velocity things like shotguns or black powder. Those were paid for with hunting license fees and are fairly far from the core metro area. Martin Burns WMA is way up in Newbury. Burrage Pond is down in Hanson. It was a bankrupt cranberry bog seized from Cumberland Farms for tax liens.
The Hockomock, (my favorite) is down near Raynham.
Circular firubg squad
comes to mind...
culling isn't a great solution.
Aside from being painful and terrifying for the animal who is injured and dies, culling alone isn't really an effective long-term solution. Some interesting humane population management ideas for consideration:
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/magazines/2014/05-06/out-of-season-alt...
Some of these technologies are new, emerging, and expensive. Interesting nonetheless. Note that with some methods hunters have a critical role of shooting the deer with tags, tranquilizers, or birth control. Something for everyone.
nope
Sterilizing deer does not seem very humane to me. Neither does getting hit by a car or dying of disease caused by overpopulation. I would prefer that they be killed as humanely as possible, and I would also prefer not to have 240 people shooting guns in the Blue Hills Reservation.
Not an isolated population
TNR programs work with cats because people watch for newcomers at the feeding stations, trap them, neuter/spay them, and release them. TNR colonies require constant surveillance and action. Also, you can get the pregnant cats into a shelter and raise the kittens such that they are accustomed to humans and adoptable - not exactly possible with fawns.
Also, how, exactly, is trapping an animal and performing surgery not painful and terrifying?
And expensive
And really expensive
Starvation isn't a great solution, either
As for your other solutions, they are very expensive, especially when you can get hunters to do it for nothing.
FWIW, I don't hunt, and I definitely couldn't shoot a deer.
deer hunting at blue hills
no hunting, please. it's a public space just a few miles outside of the city in a very well populated area.
if the deer run out of food, they'll move to a place where there is more food available.
as for the Fells, i am there every weekend running for hours on the trails there and i've never seen a deer. i'd love to know where they are at.
seems odd that we seem to think we can "manage" a problem like this when we can't seem to manage our own families.
The deer will get sick long before they run out food and move on
I understand it is unpleasant to kill a beautiful wild animal, but I think that the white tail deer population cannot control itself. I am against shooting guns in the blue hills but it is not the only alternative.
let the curry cross country team...
"track" them down....you know, like in the olden days when men/women were real hunters. how hard is it to aim and pull a trigger?
It's the aiming part that gets most people
How good is your aim? If you don't actually know, then it's not as good as you think.