We picked up a computer game at the Dedham Best Buy today. When I handed it over to the register clerk, he immediately asked (even before he rang it up): "Can I see an ID, please?"
What? When did buying a computer game become a matter of national security? Still, I replied, simply: "No."
He said he had to see an ID. Best Buy employs secret shoppers and he could get in trouble if he didn't ask for and see my ID. I countered I'm not giving you an ID to buy a computer game, especially since I'm paying cash. He said he'd have to go get his manager.
At which point I gave him one of those "I'm a very quiet guy, but I will make a scene if you persist" looks as I told him, again, sorry, I'm not going to give him an ID, so please go get your manager. At which point he relented, whether because his secret shoppers would mark him down even more if he got into an argument with a customer the entire front part of the store could hear or because he couldn't believe a secret shopper could possibly act so appalled, I don't know.
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Comments
It's disgusting. Stores
By Anonymous
Sat, 10/04/2008 - 10:09pm
It's disgusting. Stores want home phone numbers, addresses, and zip codes. They act as if you owe it to them, your personal information. Then they sell it to other companies. Assholes. Too few people push back or complain. Thanks for doing so.
Hell, Radio Shack may have
By grahams
Sat, 10/04/2008 - 11:09pm
Hell, Radio Shack may have pestered you for your phone number and other personal details, but I never had them ask for ID. Which was helpful, because I always gave them fake personal details.
Toys R Us
By adamg
Sat, 10/04/2008 - 11:13pm
They always start off your transaction by asking "May I have your phone number please?" But unlike Radio Shack of old, or Best Buy this afternoon, when you say "no," they don't then pester you.
Yeah, I find that a casual
By neilv
Sat, 10/04/2008 - 11:29pm
Yeah, I find that a casual but firm "you don't need that" -- works in most cases. With the right intonation, no Jedi mind trick hand wave is necessary.
The latest innovation in the "Your Papers, Please" category is asking for birthdate and/or ID when customer attempts to purchase a can of *computer duster*. This is in response to an innovation in the "Inhale Anything That Is Bad For You" category.
This store policy is especially annoying when they only sell duster with bitterant. A month ago, a while after cleaning out a keyboard, I walked through that part of the room again, and could suddenly taste the bitterant on my tongue, like I'd been drinking extremely bitter coffee. Earlier this last summer, a female friend and I had each taken a few target shots with a duster gas-powered Airsoft gun. A short while later, we kissed. Fortunately, this was not our first kiss, as the bitterant suddenly in our mouths tasted like death must taste, and we both would've run away in horror.
To clarify: I haven't
By neilv
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 3:51am
To clarify: I haven't experienced interrogation over computer duster at Best Buy. That was Staples and then (looking to symbolically 'punish' Staples by not giving them my business the next time) Target.
Don't know where I'll try next, when the current can of bitterant runs out and I need to clean a keyboard or power an Airsoft toy.
A funny thing about this consumer situation is that, if I find a store that sells computer duster without interrogation and even (please, God) without bitterant, I'm not sure that I should plug them in blogs as I normally would. While plugging might send the store customers who want duster for legitimate purposes, and generally contribute to positive buzz about the store, it might also send them undesirable customers who are crazy enough to be huffing computer duster (would you like an antifreeze chaser with that?) or get the store in trouble when one of their corporate parent's lawyers sees the blog and worries about liability.
Canned air
By Jay Levitt
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 1:46pm
Neil,
Markertek sells lots of Chemtronics dusters that don't seem to have bitterant. I recommend the Ultra Jet kits (ES1020K) - you buy the stainless steel nozzle once, and then just refills after that. I go through about a can a month (snacks + cat + delicate Apple keyboard).
I'm not any more worried about teens mail-ordering huffing supplies than I am about them mail-ordering expensive wine.
Thanks, Jay! Shipping for
By neilv
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 8:06pm
Thanks, Jay! Shipping for one can of ES1020 (no K for me) is about $10, so I'll wait til I need some other things they sell too, if I don't find a cheaper local or mail-order source for that product or similar bitterant-free HCF-134a before then.
Other things you need
By Jay Levitt
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:24pm
Permacel gaff tape. Everyone needs gaff tape. They just don't know it till they try it.
Was it a violent game? If it
By ShadyMilkMan
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 1:07am
Was it a violent game? If it had a higher rating they would be justified for asking for your id.
On the other hand I am very familiar with the operations of Best Buy (at least the base of it, I was very very familiar with it 4 years ago Im sure its gotten worse) and would not trust their associates with my contact info beyond my name. I remember for a while they were getting caught signing people up for free trials without their knowledge because the store would get X number of dollars for every X number of trials pushed on people. The most risky time for that is when your buying a computer, they will make you think you have to fill out and sign half the stuff they have you fill out and sign when you really dont. My favorite thing was when they would be selling someone a product and when they found out the person had no interest in buying service or accessories the associates (with major prodding from management) would tell the person that it wasnt in stock (when it was.) The second step to that was then pulling it up in the system and telling them the store in the next town over had it in stock and the person should go there. Rinse, lather and repeat.
Needless to say Best Buy was not one of my favorite places to deal with. Its awash in corporate craziness that manifests itself in an overzealous workforce that will do anything not to get yelled at by the management. It also helps that their store management gets paid very well (A GM goes upwards to 100,000 and more, thats pretty damn good in retail world below the regional level.) So lots of these people think they will make it there someday.
Best Buy does this for video
By mattm78
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 7:21am
Best Buy does this for video games with certain ratings. If you look at the register you'll see it flash to check ID or something after they scan certain games. They just do it for everyone instead of kids. They've done it for years.
Right but...
By eeka
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 1:11pm
If you're clearly over 18, I'm pretty sure they aren't required to see proof. When I'm carded for spraypaint and similar things, the person is usually apologetic and is like "oh, it beeped because we can only sell it to people over 18...sorry about that" and will type in a random birth date, or their own, or something. Only a few times they've asked for my ID, I tell them no, and they're fine with it.
http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
Clearly over 18? Dont stores
By J
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 1:47pm
Clearly over 18? Dont stores that sell tobacco have a sign that says if you look under 30 you get checked for ID?
M rated games = 17+ and Best Buy requires ID check because of political action taken against them (Hillary and Leiberman)
Who decides who looks over
By ShadyMilkMan
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 4:50pm
Who decides who looks over 18? I have friends well into their 20's who on a very casual day (old jeans and oversized sweatshirt) could pass for 17. I was an older looking teenager/early 20 something who never had a hard time getting anything while my friends (some of whom were of age for what we were doing) would get carded and investigated by employees. You just never know, a rule is a rule. Sure someone who is 40 wouldnt pass for 17 but some of them get carded because that 28 year old guy you just carded for buying the same game is gonna be pissed if he thinks that your carding him just because he looks 17 , and the 40 year old just walks away with the game. Age is a funny thing, some stores dont want their employees playing the carnival game of guess my age and weight.
That's an improvement
By Jay Levitt
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 1:55pm
Oh, about the time they started calling the cops to arrest their customers for buying something, or taser them for not buying something, or simply arresting them themselves (illegally).
Or price checking
By Eighthman
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 8:58am
I remember a brouhaha in the Washington DC area many years ago -- before Internet pervasiveness -- about how Best Buy would kick people out of the store who were writing down prices.
Would buy from Radio Shack before Best Buy...
By Cleary Squared
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 2:06pm
A couple of months ago, when I bought a new video game for my PSP, the cashier tried to pump me for magazine subscriptions and scratch protection. She was exuberant and a little pushy, but by the second time I said "No," she calmed down and gave me my item.
These days, all I do is scan for stuff at Best Buy, and when a blue-shirted employee asks me if I need anything, I just say no. Then I buy it elsewhere cheaper.
Radio Shack is a little less pushy, but not by much. They still ask for addresses and if I want to buy product protection, but 99% of the time they leave me alone if I say no.
They were entirely right in
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 7:21pm
They were entirely right in asking you for ID if your game was rated as such. Regardless of how old you are, or think you look, the employee is prompted to enter a date of birth into the computer to verify the age of the customer buying media rated accordingly, and was just doing his job. Best Buy is actually a really good company. Unlike other electronics retailers I've worked for, they don't pressure their staff with disciplinary action for not meeting unrealistic sales goals, and the non-commission environment is better for everyone than a commission-based pay system used by other stores.
Let the kid do his job, or take your holier-than-thou attitude somewhere else.
I believe adamg was
By neilv
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 7:35pm
I believe adamg was objecting to the presumed policy of the store or chain, not to the discretion of the employee.
I'm having trouble imagining adamg treating a store employee inappropriately, and his description of the interaction is consistent with that impression.
Best Buy might indeed be a good company, I couldn't say, but that doesn't mean that they are perfect in every way. Nor does that mean consumers should never point out any imperfections so that Best Buy and other businesses might learn from the mistakes and improve.
It was a Sherlock Holmes game
By adamg
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 7:54pm
Excessive violence? Dunno. I think the box might actually still be in the car and I don't feel like going out and getting it.
Until my post here started getting replies, I admit, I didn't know about IDs and the age thing on computer games. I don't tend to buy many, and the ones I have bought (aside from this one, I guess) have tended to be either strategy games (SimCity 4) or appropriate for a little (well, now not quite so little) kid. So I've never had to deal with the rating system.
I appreciate that the guy was doing his job. At the same time, if he had told me the real reason he needed to see my ID, I probably would have just shown him my driver's license. I get it, even when the buyer is a middle-aged shlub who hasn't seen 18 in a loooong time. But instead, he just told me something about "secret shoppers." I get enough crap in my inbox and my actual mailbox as it is without wanting more. I have enough paranoia about my identity as it is, as well. If I do have to produce my ID, damn right I want a better explanation why.
OK, the game is rated M
By adamg
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 8:09pm
Or 17+, so, yes, it makes sense he'd want ID. Again, however, if he'd told me why he really needed ID ...
My guess is that the kid
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 8:16pm
My guess is that the kid said the "secret shoppers" line because he assumed you did know about the ID thing, or maybe he doesn't know that it's age verification for a 17+ video game, he just knows that he needs it. Yes, Best Buy does ask for phone numbers, addresses, and the like, but they don't sell your information, it's used internally, and mostly for things that benefit you, like receipt tracking.
Can we calm down with the
By grahams
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:06pm
Can we calm down with the "They Have To Check for ID" rhetoric? There is no law requiring stores to check ID, and the ESA's rating system is voluntary, not government imposed. Best Buy is CHOOSING to check ID so they look good to the public. I would have done the same thing: questioned the policy and asked to speak to a manager. There is no chance they would get my ID.
Why the hell not? What's so
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:13pm
Why the hell not? What's so holy and sacred about your ID? I don't understand why you can't just hold out your ID so someone can type your birthday into their little keypad.
Please, let me obtain this Sherlock Holmes video game. No, you may not ascertain my age, you government spy! Big brother! Patriot Act! Aaaaah!
Because I have no confidence
By grahams
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:16pm
Because I have no confidence that they are only going to do noble things with that information. Because it's my private information, and they haven't given me a good reason why they need it. Because that information has value and they are giving me nothing in return for it, I can easily go to another store that won't require ID.
I'll just forward them this,
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:24pm
I'll just forward them this, then. You make that information readily available on the internet, plus an abundance of other "private" information. Here's a good reason: it's a store policy that they check ages for video games and movies so teenagers don't buy R-rated movies. Blanket policies such as checking ID for every sale are more fair to everyone than allowing exceptions in the instance that some cranky jerk with nothing better to do than raise a stink doesn't want to show his ID because he doesn't want the government reading his mind or whatever. That information has no value, it's a date that doesn't get connected to anything, and they ARE giving you something for it: you tell them your date of birth, they let you buy the video game. If you think the man's out to get you, take your self-righteous shopping somewhere else, because chances are, not even the manager wants you as a customer.
That bio doesn't have my
By grahams
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:30pm
That bio doesn't have my driver's license number or my address on it.
That is not a good reason. I don't care if teenagers buy R rated video games or movies. That is the job of parents, not a store.
That information DOES have value. My birthdate may be trivial, but my drivers license number and address have value and I have no interest in giving that information to Best Buy for free. I would much rather go to a store that won't harass me.
It has nothing to do with "The Man", and I don't think there is some kind of retarded conspiracy. I just know that stores routinely sell this information to data aggregators to build profiles of customers to advertisers and sellers. It's perfectly possible that Best Buy is not one of those companies, but I have, as you say, a "blanket policy" not to give that information out.
So, you think a teenager's
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:39pm
So, you think a teenager's going to be able to memorize a 12-digit string in a few seconds' time while also punching your date of birth into a computer, where the screen (and prompt for date of birth) is plainly visible to you? There isn't even a space to enter a driver's license number anywhere in any of Best Buy's systems, except for MAYBE the one holding the info on the people that driver their cars. As for your address, Best Buy REALLY doesn't care. Half the time, we just end up putting in the store's address because the system doesn't take international addresses. And, like I said, the date of birth entered for a video game or movie purchase is just checked against the age required for the item. It's not even stored.
I'd think that someone so concerned would at least read a company's privacy policy (or, y'know... live in a lead box, where they can't read your mind).
I need to stop feeding the troll
By grahams
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:41pm
I don't care about their privacy policy, it's much easier just to keep my information to myself. And I have no idea what's they can input on their screen, because, again, I just keep my information to myself.
It seems pretty straightforward, and I believe you're now just arguing to argue, so I don't think I'm going to bother responding to you anymore.
Now I see
By Jay Levitt
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:33pm
You are actually being logical, and you understand the idea of economic exchange, but you've missed something.
Specifically, here's the leap you've made:
1. Best Buy's cashier asks for my driver's license
2. Best Buy policy is to use my driver's license to obtain my date-of-birth
3. Therefore: By handing my driver's license to Best Buy, I give up only my date of birth, and only to Best Buy/
Nope. By handing the cashier at Best Buy my driver's license, I'm giving that cashier temporary, but complete, access to everything on that license. Five years ago, I might have postulated wi-fi spy cameras, but now, that'd be silly; all anyone has to do is leave their cell-phone's hi-res cam recording video of the countertop, and they'll have a very nice collection of licenses at the end of the shift.
And if you think collecting driver's license numbers isn't a privacy risk, I'll request you to answer my previous post.
Well, I didn't say
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:43pm
Well, I didn't say collecting driver's license numbers isn't a privacy risk, I said collecting dates of birth isn't. Do you guys give bouncers or bartenders a hard time when you go out? They actually scrutinize IDs, whereas the cashier would've just had to find and enter the birthdate. Sometimes, bars and liquor stores even SCAN people's IDs. But I'm guessing THAT'S okay with you guys?
Breaking my aforementioned, short, silence.
By grahams
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:48pm
I (unfortunately) don't get carded anymore, but unlike buying videogames, when it comes to booze I don't have any other choices, not to mention it is the law.
When I can buy my videogames at Target or Gamestop across the street without having to prove my age, I'll just do that. There is no law requiring BB to check my ID, they are doing it as their own corporate policy. I disagree with that policy, so I spend my money elsewhere. I don't see why you find this unreasonable, nor do I really care.
It may not be a law, but
By J
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 12:46am
It may not be a law, but it's pretty damn close to one.
If Best Buy didnt do it voluntarily, it WOULD be a law, and then theyd be fined when a new register guy didnt do it.
Again, Hillary and Lieberman have pushed pretty hard to make it law.
Im pretty sure Target and Gamestop both require ID checks as well. I know walmart does.
Reality
By Kaz
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 1:32am
It's not close to law. Every time it comes up for discussion, it plays itself out in the media and the industry agrees to self-regulate. The closest Hillary and Lieberman came was an expired bill left high-and-dry in committee back in 2005 (only once did they push this and not hard enough to even get it out of committee).
As for which stores participate in the ESRB ratings nonsense, the ESRB has a Retail Council who all agree to monitor Mature and Adult Only rated games. These stores also agree to be audited by surprise 15-yr-old shoppers attempting to purchase the games (these are the "mystery shoppers"). They have yet to do better than 80% compliance with their own policies as a whole. Then again, the only enforcement is internal to each company or, up until he was disbarred, Jack Thompson could have sued them as he's done in the past and gotten absolutely nowhere. These companies are:
* Best Buy
* Blockbuster Video
* Circuit City
* GameStop
* Movie Gallery/Hollywood Video/GameCrazy
* Sears/Kmart
* Target
* Toys "R" Us
* Wal-Mart
If anyone else cards you buying a game, they're doing it on their own. That having been said, Adam being carded is absurd since the Retail Council only have to card under 17 by their own policy and nothing at Best Buy says that they card everyone. In fact, you can find a PSA from their President on their website saying that they only card people who seem under 17.
oi
By sup3rmark
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 1:45am
The PSA video linked from this page actually doesn't say "that they only card people who seem under 17." It actually doesn't mention carding at all. It just says they don't sell games with high ratings to kids under 17.
And...
By Kaz
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 1:51am
You think they'll accomplish that goal by carding guys who look like
[img]http://www.cmswatch.com/uploadedimages/features_fe...
this? The point is that they intend to card kids (especially just to catch the 2-3 "mystery shoppers" who are there to audit them). This employee's "card everyone" nonsense doesn't jive with what their president says in that PSA. But whatever, it's pretty obvious what's going on here and some people are just here to argue over pedantic blather as if it's important.
Even collecting only birthdates
By neilv
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:56pm
Even collecting only birthdates is bad for at least two reasons:
1. If you don't think this is a problem, you missed the last decade-plus evolution in database correlation.
2. America right now is awash in slippery slopes away from ideals to which we aspired and to some extent had achieved.
When it comes to unnecessary privacy invasion even in matters that seem trivial, I think it's our patriotic duty to imagine we're stereotypical stubborn Texans, and civilly but firmly decline. It's people constantly demanding "Comrade citizen, your papers, please!" that ain't soundin' too neighborly, nor too American.
1. in what? 2. i didn't say
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:58pm
1. in what?
2. i didn't say they only collect dates of birth, period. i said that for that prompt, it's just date of birth. the address prompts come later, for other reasons (i.e. the customer is purchasing services that might need to be looked up later, made INFINITELY more easy with the ability to search by phone number or address).
The exigencies of running an
By neilv
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 10:04pm
The exigencies of running an electronics chain store do not trump the foundations of Liberty. :)
That's all I have left to say on this topic.
Ouch!!
By independentminded
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 5:27am
What's next...mandantory chip implantation? I sure hope not.
Bars scanning IDs
By Jay Levitt
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 8:20am
Wrong. Plenty of discussion on comp.risks about that one, too. The only difference is that there's nobody standing up for bars saying "Hey, it's just your driver's license! What are you, paranoid?"
Why not ask, instead of guess?
Difference between bars and Best Buy
By Ron Newman
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 8:57am
Bars are legally required to avoid selling to people under 21, and they check IDs to avoid very serious legal penalties if they fail to observe this law. A bar can lose its license for serving underage patrons.
There is no law whatsoever requiring Best Buy to pay any attention to ratings of video games.
Why the hell not indeed
By Jay Levitt
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:26pm
sup3rmark,
What's your driver's license number?
it's a code that can be
By sup3rmark
Sun, 10/05/2008 - 9:49pm
it's a code that can be pretty easily figured out, just by knowing the first name, last name, and date of birth, actually.
Are you sure?
By eeka
Sat, 10/11/2008 - 11:09pm
I thought MA was one of the states that doesn't use Soundex or similar coding. I don't even think MA license numbers have a check digit, do they?
http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
Other stores, like Bed Bath
By Route 66
Mon, 10/06/2008 - 12:55pm
Other stores, like Bed Bath & Beyond have started doing this foolishness, perhaps in an effort to cull demographics info for marketing purposes. It's tedious and it's insulting. The clerk makes you feel like you're this ogre for not acquiescing to their perfectly 'normal' request. There's nothing normal about it.
I, as a consumer, should not have to jump through hoops to make a purchase. These policies will only work to push people to shop online even more than they are now, if only to avoid these intrusive practices.