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How Boston could get 24/7 public transit
By adamg on Thu, 03/31/2016 - 8:08am
Use buses on existing routes and tie the service to getting workers to their jobs - especially at Logan - rather than worrying about drunken kids spilling out of clubs at 2 a.m., Ari Ofsevit, Jeremy Mendelson and James Aloisi write in CommonWealth.
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Comments
The article does make a
The article does make a great point. I remember when the article about the "secret" bus routes came out on Uhub, my first thought was why couldn't this be used for LNS?
Logic
This proposed solution makes way too much sense for the MBTA to ever adopt it.
Most clubs are 21 and over...
Most clubs are 21 and over... these aren't drunken kids spilling out of clubs at 2am, thesecare drunken adults. They should taken an Uber.
Yes, but ...
When you get to a certain age, 22-year-olds still seem like kids.
IIRC
That age is 23.
You definitely have a point
You definitely have a point there! Still, I think if you can afford to stay out drinking till 2AM, then you can afford to take an Uber. Or, party closer to
home if transportation isn't available.
listen
As someone who is a bit more than 21, and who likes spilling out of clubs after having had a great many drinks, I would like to offer my $0.02: why on earth should I have to rely on an individual car, part of a privately owned (and, in my opinion, totally shady) company, to get me home when I live in an allegedly major city? Why can't I rely on public transportation to get me and others safely (and cheaply) from the club to my apartment? Even if you look only at the spoiled drunks like me, public transit is a far, far better option. When you factor in that there are workers who also need to get from point A to point B during non-9-to-5 times, it SHOULD be a no-brainer.
Because the spoiled drunks like you
did not use the service:
http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2016/02/29/late-night-t-service-canceled-e...
hmmm
I don't know. It seems to me that an average of 13,000 people used it. It's entirely feasible that the drop from the launch of late-night service to December 2015 represented a few thousand of my fellow brats deciding to take an Uber or a taxi instead of a bus or a train - but it's not like ridership plummeted to absurdly low numbers. And of course there will be fewer people riding late at night on the weekend than during rush hour or a weekend afternoon. If the MBTA instituted late-night service with the expectation of 72,000 riders a night, they would be pretty misguided.
The drop from launch to
The drop from launch to December 2015 is because they cut back the service hours and increased the amount of time between trains. When you reduce service, you get fewer riders.
Don't forget they also cut
Don't forget they also cut the late night service hours back from 2:30am to 2am half way through the 'pilot'.
The late night ridership
The late night ridership numbers were solid, especially considering how little the T promoted the service. Should we shut down the Mass Pike at night because fewer people use it then?
There is a maintenance issue
There is a maintenance issue when running the trains most hours of the day. The DC Metro announced that they may need to shutdown the blue line completely for 6 months for maintenance. They said that having only 3-4 hours a day for repair and upkeep of the tracks is not sufficient.
The point of late-night T
The point of late-night T service to cater to such people isn't for their benefit, but the people on the other end of a potential DUI.
Tell drunks they "ought" to take an expensive cab/Uber and they're more likely to drive. Give them a cheap enough alternative and many will use it.
Shuttle service to the Leventhal-Sidman JCC for seniors, events.
Advocate for shuttle service to the Leventhal-Sidman Jewish Community Center for seniors, for special events.
Seriously
Everyone else on this thread is being distracted by sideshows and tangents.
On a scale of 1 to off-topic
This is really off topic.
But since you brought it up … The JCC built a campus in the middle of nowhere suburbia. Maybe it should be on their head to provide shuttle service, not that of the general public?
It's that kind of thinking
It's that kind of thinking that gets us a traffic jam of private shuttles I'm not allowed to use, or worse, thousands of jobs with no transit at all.
An example of developing a cooperative shuttle program...
Their offices and Combined Jewish Philanthropies' offices haven't any substantive response. If it's in the middle of nowhere there should be routine provisions for shuttles for seniors, for special events. Mount Ida College across the street has a shuttle, health organizations in the neighborhood have shuttles, corporate shuttles go by all the time. There should be some way to develop a cooperative shuttle program.
Or take the 52 bus
And advocate for the JCC to make a walkway for the short distance from bus stop to entrance.
Or, contact the people who you need to contact about this. I think the T has bigger problems than yours.
Buses certainly sound like a
Buses certainly sound like a better solution than running trains on a cost basis.
This whole concept just works much better...
Highly limited services attract limited ridership. There just wasn't enough previous late-night service to do much good. Making it universal (all night, all the time) solves that part of the equation. Make it a public service and not the drunk shuttle ("Vomit Comet") and you're on to something.
This plan passes the "it's what they do in most major cities" test. The early morning service numbers show that there's demand. Would be a huge win-win, just wonder if there's any appetite at MassDOT or the governor's office for something so urban-focused. My fear is that there is not.
fingers crossed
Hoping that Baker is practical-minded enough to grab this and run. It makes so much more sense. The real clientele for this is going to be late/early shift folks (many of which are already crowding up the limited routes currently available at these times) and they have no problem reading a bus schedule, dealing with the "stigma" of a bus ("they're for the Poors! Where's my Uber??") and even better, given that so many work at larger employers (Logan, Longwood entities) reaching out to them to publicize and educate about available routes, changes to schedules or procedures is made a lot easier.
I'm having a hard time finding the downside to this plan. If it doesn't get implemented this administration is opening itself to accusations of not giving a turd about working class people, not being practical, or just being plain fuckin stoopid. That's assuming that there isn't some sort of unintended consequence of this plan that is demonstrably nasty (cutting into private sector profits does not count - besides, there's still plenty of drunks to take home on Friday and Saturday nights).
Very well, said, John-W
and for all of those reasons, I think that the administration will in fact insiste on implementation of something like this (via the FMCB, of course). Perhaps the feds can give Beacon Hill a little nudge (or, if you prefer, "cover") on this via the civil rights analysis.
Baker
If this was to be done, it would be done by a private company, not the MBTA. This is baker's dream come true and would have a solid case for privatizing this service.
I agree also
Much more logical for the people who need the transportation at that time of day and they can still do the much-needed subway maintenance. With less traffic, the buses would meet timetables more betterer (or something like that).
Since buses, as well as cars, sit in rush-hour traffic,
if there are buses during the late-night/early morning hours, the buses won't have to sit in rush-hour traffic. I still think that trains are better, however, since they're much more efficient.
I could see running buses during late-night and early-morning
I could see maybe running buses during late-night/early-morning hours, but not during the day, and certainly not during the morning and afternoon/evening rush hours.
Uber
I think Uber or a similar service needs to step in to replace the MBTA as it isn't working and will not improve unless they find a way to cut their costs or find a huge new revenue source.
Uber is *not* the right model to replace MBTA
Much of Uber's success comes from its willingness to break laws, exploit drivers, and ignore certain population segments. The MBTA isn't allowed to give the finger to folks in wheelchairs, for example. Uber is happy to do so, except in areas where they are being forced to by lawmakers.
Good for the MBTA for refusing to break laws and ignore certain
population segments (such as giving the finger to folks who use wheelchairs). The day that something like Uber, or any similar model replaces the T will be the day the Boston ceases to function as a real city, and that there'll will be traffic jams at all hours of the day and night, rather than just at rush-hours.
Amusingly enough, the same
Amusingly enough, the same can be said of Uber: they're burning money fast, and they're going to have to make some cuts or price increases if they don't find a way to profitability (which they haven't yet). There's been $9 billion of venture capital poured into expanding the service, but it's not clear that all that money isn't just being used to keep fares unsustainably low in an attempt to draw more customers.
Yeah, Uber is the right model
Hyde Park to the Airport? Just $24-$30! Even split three ways it's $8-10, and probably not a particularly straight line, which may or may not happen at night. And it might take a while to get an Uber to your neighborhood at that time of morning. And the that Uber driver is stuck at the airport at 4 a.m. without a fare, so they'll be about as happy about having made that trip staring down a $4 tunnel fare (and, no, it's not really fair that cabs have to pay more than TNC operators for tunnel tolls) back to the city where maybe they can get another fare. So they make $24, but it takes an hour, they pay a $4 toll, drive 15 miles in the middle of the night. Not sure that's going to be a winning proposition.
But, yes, the private sector is the solution.
I think it was mentioned here
I think it was mentioned here or own the Boston sub reddit that this would be a good opportunity for a company such as Bridj to step in.
I came here late to add that
I came here late to add that Bridj is run by scum. Their website lists in their "team" more than 20 office rats, but no driver. Even if night runs would have 2-3 riders, Bridj would not provide the buses, because they won't do anything unless the buss is filled. Something to do with the unused capacity and other crap they heard in high school economics classes.
Hell will freeze over before Bridj will be able to compete taxis. It costs as much as the latter, but it comes by every once in a while, like a unimportant MBTA bus. Once the hype they create on Facebook will go away, the VC money will dry, and Bridj will become history. Unless the city funds it and cuts monopolies for it, because it finds it as useful as an independent schools are (money to cronies, fake anger within trade union leaders, and so on).
They have no idea
These people have no idea why this won't work and why the T won't do this. And it's not for the reasons that most people understand why the service was cancelled in the first place. It's a far more complex reason.
And frankly, because buses worked so well on the last iteration of Night Owl service, which was exactly this.. buses.
troll
or just plain ignorant. Pretty sure the failings of the Night Owl service have already been covered in previous posts on this site, but the person to ask would be the Div2Supt.
because
because I'd trust internet commentators over people who have actual knowledge of the situation.
because...
...anons have a great track record of establishing their credentials on topics.
Please adopt a handle so we can attribute your great insight and actual knowledge to someone.
Buses for two hours a night...
...two days a week is hardly the same as a dedicated network which runs all night, seven nights a week. At that point you likely have enough critical mass to make this special network work.
I'm sure someone will start citing Carmen's Union working rules which won't allow this, or will make it too expensive to operate. Contracts can be changed - might take some time, but they can be changed. They're not a physical constraint.
I don't want to push union-busting, but I still think 589 might want to think twice about pushing back too hard. This would essentially be a new service - I'm sure the privatization bent of the current governor wouldn't mind doing this if it were contracted to a private company.
Reading Comprehension
This is covered in the article, and in my longer blog post, but here's an explanation with small words and visual aids if you didn't follow:
2001-2005: bus service runs for two hours Friday and Saturday nights. Really only useful to the club/bar scene and a few late night shifts. Buses follow rail lines to a fault, use night-only stops, and have circuitous routings to reach these stops (because Boston, mostly) which mean long trip times and high operating costs. Buses are of no benefit to large overnight employers like Logan and hospitals and hospitality.
This proposal addresses these issues: buses follow existing routes and use existing stops, have straight routings and shorter route times, and provide all-night service every day, so that they are designed to benefit overnight job access, and if some drunk kids ride on a Friday night, it's an ancillary benefit.
A great article.
Well thought out, well reasoned, well written, and beautifully contrarian (voices for expansion of services rather than continuing contraction). I say this as someone whose monthly pass is going up by 10% and will never use this service, but who recognizes that it is a matter of basic transportation equity.
In terms of real (read: political) appeal however, the article's emphasis on getting late/early shift workers to/from work, and the affirmative deemphasizing of providing the service for "late-night partiers" is the winning point. This is what will carry the day (whether with the T, the Legislature, or the feds who are looking at the civil rights matter associated with the discontinuation of the late-night service).
Lastly, it was great to see Ari O. out there in CommonWealth. I don't know him personally, but he is a great voice of reason and common sense, and perhaps best of all, has clearly gotten the attention of everyone in DOT. They must shudder when he walks into a meeting, a scene that I hope to witness sometime soon.
These routes would (unlike
So, what killed the Night Owl service was that people had trouble finding where the buses stopped, and you want to repeat that? We need either dedicated late-night bus routes with their own number and bus stop signs with the route number and schedules, and signs leading to the stops from the nearest subway station OR the buses need to run an exact copy of the subway routes, stopping at the stations themselves. If people have to do research ahead of time to figure out where the late night bus stops, very few people are going to ride it, as we saw with the Night Owl. Almost every station outside of downtown has a busway attached, and this is where a first-time rider would look for the bus.
That was part of the logic behind running actual trains for the latest experiment in late-night service. Need to take the T at night? Just go to the station and board a train as you normally would, just with a slightly longer wait.
I'm not saying late-night service cannot be done just with buses. In fact I think it could be done very well, as it has been in other cities. We just need to be very careful and deliberate in planning the service, and recognize people's expectations.
true but...
Yes, having buses stop at nonstandard locations is a problem, but I think the issue here is not to have day-time service just extend into the night with no differences. The volume and nature of the riders are different at night, but more easily characterized.
If what we're trying to address are night/early shift workers, I think we have a good idea as to where the service is needed and the employers involved. Communication of how the service runs (not the T's strong suit as repeatedly proven) should be coordinated with these employers. And whadda ya know, Secty Pollack not only sits on the Board of the T but also of Massport, so this shouldn't be too difficult to coordinate. All the hospitals down at Longwood even have an entity (MASCO) dedicated to managing transportation concerns of their employees and customers. If we can't make this work we might as well wrap this thing all up and go live in a cave.
Do we really even know if these hypothetical
night/early shift workers want to wait for a bus or would find waiting for a bus convenient? Some, I am sure, work 11pm-7am which is within the Ts subway service. Would not it be better to do some up front work and see if they even want it instead of assuming that they do?
pudding proof...
[insert Cosby joke here]
The very early morning service that does exist (and is heavily used) and the short time that we had the late night service provides an indication that off-hour shift workers would use it. If people feel like a packed morning bus run is not proof enough, then the transit planners at MassDOT should be doing some surveys of workers at these large employers (and in the case of MASCO and some others there may be data already available).
And who knows that data could be used to...I dunno...guide the routing and timing of the buses, as well as educational (multilingual) outreach? We can populate Mars with robot geologists but we can't fucking figure out how to run a few bus routes at night in a major North American city.
The point is this builds off of existing early morning service
Read the first lines of the first four paragraphs of the article:
The whole point is that bus service that runs for two hours on Friday and Saturday nights following a bunch of routes which are used at no other times of the day just doesn't make sense. The T has this early morning service and it works. It should be the baseline for expanded late night trips.
why so tense?
Do you always shout the first three words of every thing you say?
It sounds like the use of MBTA trains for late-night service
would be far easier for everybody. It's ironic that they managed to spend tons of money on the big-dig, but don't have enough money to really fix our MBTA system. Kind of disgusting, imho.
There were good reasons, I am sure, why both the
late night MBTA service as well as the "Night Owl" bus service were cancelled. I, for one, do not think the MBTA, with all its current issues, is going to read the article and say "Hey, let us do that!" Even if the article is correct and the MBTA realizes 25 percent revenue from offering this service knocking down the $1 million dollars per year cost to only $750,000 per year, I can't imagine that they have additional funds just laying around to run these buses, along the lines cited, 24/7. (The MBTA was 9 billion dollars in debt with a 3 billion dollar maintenance backlog as cited: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/02/09/woes-are-bigger-than-beve...). I think their punch list probably contains more important items like fixing the Red Line switches.
Methinks the Commonwealth article is long on creative thought but short on practicality.
How much did late night service cost?
About $10 million. This costs $1 million. And gets people to work. Transit isn't about making money.
woot. woot.
Ari O for MassDOT Secretary!
(or at least head of planning.)
I have a difficult time
I have a difficult time taking anyone who uses a non-word such as methinks seriously. You want to go wild and crazy and wasted in Boston? Pay for your own Uber ride home. Working adults with real responsibilities don't need to pay for drunk 22yr old frat boys stumbling out of bars at 2am in the city of Boston who want subsidized rides of convenience. Grow up. Or call your Mommy to bring your drunken spoiled ass home.
I have an equally hard time
I have an equally hard time taking someone seriously who is unaware that methinks is a perfectly valid, if archaic, word.
Agreed
'Methinks' is a perfectly cromulent word.
Why does the state have the
Why does the state have the money to run a commuter ferry AND the new Greenbush Commuter rail line? Or why does the state have money to run commuter rail trains after 8, and on weekends, when regular commuter rail subsidies are close ($10+) to late night? Seems like Baker and other conservatives have this puritanical disdain for having anyone doing anything other than sleeping after midnight, even though many people work or socialize later. I dont think late night commuter rail is just workers, its lots of people going for drinks or dinner or sports events after work, why are they more worthy of subsidy? I think it should all be offered, but Baker zeroed in within months at late night, at first paring it back to weaken it and then recently killing it. It seems like he just played politics, giving his base something to cheer about (cutting socialized transit) while continuing to invest in highways.
The commuter rail is
The commuter rail is uselessly infrequent *and* expensive to run off-peak, because it is run inefficiently.
No love...
...For Quincy and Braintree in this proposal?
The plan sounds good otherwise, but it feels like a mistake to leave out those two communities.