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MBTA to spend $8 million to keep Mattapan trolleys running
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Comments
Remember when
the MBTA said they didn't want more money, because they wouldn't know what to do with it anyway? Those were good times.
Mattapan Trolleys
Great news the High Speed line is the most enjoyable ride on the MBTA. Now if they could only figure out how to make people pay their fares
On the Mattapan Line, they pay their fares
Which amazes me, since the drivers leave the trains unattended at Mattapan. Still, people get on and tap their cards or put cash in, even with no one present.
Can you get me their names?
I'll write them in next election.
Don't give up your day job
Don't give up your day job
Great
Any other fresh zingers while you're at it? "I know you are, but what am I," maybe? "Yo mama?"
This old argument again
First of all, do you have any data to back this up? Or just "I saw someone not pay their fare therefore no one pays their fare"? I'm guessing the latter.
Second: I don't have the data, but I'd guess that the vast majority of MHSL riders are transferring to/from the Red Line at Ashmont. This is a free transfer (and it doesn't even count against your other possible transfers, i.e. you can still transfer to/from buses on the same trip). So most of the people are going to pay their fare anyway.
As for downthread comments about BRT, can someone explain why? Buses need lots of concrete, which would require rebuilding both the bridges on the line to allow a much heavier roadbed. And concrete doesn't last as long, especially at stops (acceleration/deceleration). Oh and rail cars last a lot longer than buses. And we already have the tracks in place. What makes a lot more sense would be modern light rail vehicles and upgrading the line where necessary (bridges, maybe power), which are proven technology and relatively cheap, and also provide a lot more capacity (if needed). No one has ever come up with a justification for BRT, and when the numbers come in, unless the books are cooked (which the T is capable of) it should be a lot cheaper to use the rails.
There is a valid point here...
The trolley is technically "part" of the red line, yes? I would say 90%+ using that trolley are coming OFF the red line at Ashmont or going TO the red line at Ashmont, at which point, they are paying or have paid already. If you made hard line efforts to collect fares (not that they don't already, I have yet to witness fare evasion on the trolley) for those travelling between trolley stops, they could pretty easily walk to where they are going. Or bike. Or scoot, whatever. Even if there was widespread waving of passengers onto the trolley, the revenue lost would be negligible, since most riders need to go through Ashmont.
Also, until fairly recently, the trolley was free to ride, so they are already collecting more than they used to.
Better use of funds?
Well its good to see that they want to keep the line running.
However, there are other solutions by purchasing from small companies that specialize in the manufacture of replica streetcars or ones that have special custom needs as is the case here.
Gomaco and Brookville are examples.
Gomaco Heritage Replicas (like in Lowell)
http://www.gomacotrolley.com/Resources/pages/trolleystyles.html
Brookville
http://www.brookvillecorp.com/streetcar-division.asp
Brookville can do PCC rebuilds or create modern units. Large companies that produce streetcars like Seimens, Bombardier, Kinki Sharyo and others are not interested in building just a few units. They want to build a fleet, so they would not bid. However these smaller companies that can do just a few are just the right size.
Its a nice piece of history but...
What would it cost to pave over the existing rail lines and run buses through there like the silver line?
Q. "What would it cost to pave over the existing rail lines?"
A. Sacred culture and living memory.
I for one
Wouldn't mind something newer, more reliable but aesthetically historic. Even if we (if it ever happens) apply the same idea to a S. Station to a N. Station connector. Appearance and functionality doesn't necessarily need to compete with one another.
Were not Hong Kong, were Boston.
Were stupid!
Were stupid!
Do you live in the area?
Have you ever taken the trolley? Do you watch the MBTA twitter or otherwise to see each instance of the T breaking down? There is a solid argument to be made that the Mattapan Trolley is already the most reliable line on the T. In severe winter weather they sometimes run busses if they cannot get the tracks plowed, but otherwise it runs like a top.
Also, $8 million is nothing when you are speaking of the T or trains in general. Any ideas what new trains would cost, not including the 3 miles of track and electrical upgrades to move them? It's akin to a cab company spending twenty thousand dollars to refurbish a dozen old, paid-for crown vics vs. buying a dozen new cars at $30k each.
In praise
Unlike the Silver Line, this trolley is fast and frequent. With its short cars, sometimes you need to stand, but it is never like the overpacked SL. Moreover, you won't wait 30 to 45 minutes for the next one. Also, the line is linear with very little interference from vehicles. Even at the most crowded crossing (Central), you won't be in a traffic jam. Finally, the RL trolleys tend to unload quickly.
I love 'em.
I'm all for keeping the
I'm all for keeping the trolleys and tracks in mattapan but the silver line takes 45 minutes now? 100% not true with the SL4 and SL5. I think the seaport SL does take longer but I doubt its that long. You can still make your point without the hyperbole.
Needham Line
I've never taken this line, but it sounds like a perfect realization of the daydream to convert the Needham line into something which is useful on the weekends. Especially if they added a stop at Millennium on Saturdays for the thousands of people who head up there for soccer games.
Heretic!
Pave the route through Cedar Grove Cemetery? You sir are a fiend!
Tracks were there first.
They built the cemetery around the tracks, you can see it based on the dates of the tracks being laid out versus the dates of the graves on the westerly side of the cemetery.
As someone who used to take this trolley a lot; it is fast, efficient, reliable, and since I was a kid, always staffed with a good crew.
If this line ran instead over a former commuter rail right of way, say from Alewife to Lexington or along the stupidly dug up old Watertown branch we would be talking here instead about the sacred nature of this proven transit system, as opposed to screw those other people who supposedly don't supposedly pay fares.
There are options for the line that can be explored not using Breda Type8s on this line. There are trolleys from all over the world of different types that could be purchased and adapted to this line.
Cheers to the Save The Mattapan Line people, including a good set of reps and a darn good senator from the northerly part of the line, as opposed to the corrupt kumquat from the southerly part of the line, who are working to keep this line going.
No Buses On The High Speed Line! Save The Mattapan Line!.
A lot more than 8 million.
A lot more than 8 million. Plus then you have to plow, salt, sand, fix potholes and chipped asphault, buy more SL busses because it's not like the fleet isn't using them all now.... for service more impacted by weather that holds fewer people.
The answer is to upgrade the crossing and loop so we could put refurbished GL trolleys on there, not take a step backwards to BRT (especially when there's areas in the city who desperately need that BRT as opposed to the big fat nothing they have now.)
The $8 million is only to
The $8 million is only to rebuild the trucks (motor/wheel assemblies) on 8 of the 10 cars, to keep them going another 5 years. A full rebuild for all 10 of the existing cars to get 15-20 more years out of them would probably be at least $25-30 million.. El Paso Texas is spending $18.8 million to do a full rebuild on just 6 PCC cars.
It sounds like it's a tourist attraction
A lot of time,labor, and $ being spent to maintain a quaint, out-dated attraction. Sometimes I get the same feeling with regards to the MBTA as whole,and the city itself. A very expensive to maintain tourist attraction.
In San Francisco
The non-profit Market Street Railway purchases and maintains historic streetcars and trolleys for the SF MUNI system. Has that method or something similar ever been kicked around here to anyone's knowledge?