MassLive reports the T is on the verge of a $723-million deal to replace the current CharlieCard system with a newer system that will let riders pay by tapping their phones or credit cards rather than plastic cards. And it'll work on commuter rail, too, and let riders board buses and trolleys through the rear doors.
Oh, don't worry, there'll still be cards for the phoneless, but they'll cost $5 apiece.
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My only concern is with bus riders
By Waquiot
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 12:04pm
I mean, they aren't going to be putting add value machines at every stop, so how will they be able to pay if they don't have enough on their card or don't have smartphones or whatnot.
Yes, I know that those who pay with cash when they board buses slow things down, but this will be an issue. I guess TfL works with these guys in London, so I'd be curious to see how the bus situation plays out there.
POP
By cybah
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 12:49pm
You know.. there's this thing called POP other systems use. Proof of Payment. Maybe just let the people ride until you get to the station and then you can pay if you want.
Of course lots of fare evasion, but with POP, it's up to TPD to spot check people to make sure they have fare on their card or even cash to pay said fare.
Great
By Waquiot
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 12:55pm
And if they were proposing POP we'd talk about that, but they aren't proposing that.
They are
By bgl
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 12:59pm
The MBTA has said that POP is coming with the new fare system, and even this article alludes to it (without using the exact term - oh wait, it does for the CR and goes on to say it will also be used on the Green Line).
Light dawns on Marblehead
By Waquiot
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 2:14pm
I read the Commuter Rail part, but that just sounded like what they do already (checking passes and taking tickets from the outbound passengers) minus the cash part.
I did track down a bit about how TfL (another user of the system) works cashless buses. If you have their equivalent of the Charlie Card but without a monthly pass, you can run a deficit of one bus ride, but you have to pay it off quickly (I believe within a day) or you get an extra charge. Of course, one can also add value to the card in shops, which the T really has to do. When I was in Dublin last I bought my Leap Card at a convenience store and paid my bridge tolls at gas stations.
But it's not POP unless there's deputized staff checking for the POP. Will the T really do that?
Tap at exit
By Sock_Puppet
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 5:31am
This would be another function of the tap to exit machines. They would know if you paid to get on. So you go on the back doors of the trolley. Fine. Getting off at the station, you pay then.
All Well And Good...
By Div2Supt
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 12:32pm
But shall 8-cent commutation checks from the Camden Street Line still be valid for a through passage to Cambridge or Charlestown if I transfer at Scollay's Building or Dock Square?
$5 fee unclear
By XenaKat
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 2:33pm
I couldn't tell from the article. Is the proposed $5 fee for the new Charlie Card a one-time fee charged when you get the actual card, or is it a $5-per-ride fee to try to force people to use their smartphones or credit/debit card?
If it's a one-time fee, that makes sense. My local laundromat, as well as the laundry company that owns and maintains the machines in the laundry room in my apartment complex charges a one-time fee of $2 to obtain the "smart card" used to run the machines. Additionally, the laundromat will refund you the $2 if you are moving out of the area and turn in your card (they will NOT refund any balance on the card, it's the customer's responsibility to use up any funds on said card).
If it's a $5 per ride fee, this will only harm the poorest of the poor who don't have and can't get smartphones or credit cards, but still depend on the T to get to and from work or work-training programs. That doesn't sound ok to me.
One time per card, but that
By J
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 2:56pm
One time per card, but that doesnt change that typically the charge is $1 to $2
Biggest (only?) flaw
By blues_lead
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 9:27am
Yeah, only real flaw in the plan I see is that $5 is a lot for the smartcard. $2 seems right to me - annoying and a hassle, but not exorbitant.
How much does it cost the T (or the contracted company) to buy the cards?
Not a flaw but something to be wary of: access. We need to watch the T/contractor like a hawk to be sure that fare machines/participating stores are especially represented in poorer areas with less internet penetration.
Is there still going to be a
By anon
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 7:09pm
Is there still going to be a way to get a card/ticket anonymously? Last time around, the ACLU had to threaten to go after them to prevent the CharlieCard system from being a submarine attempt to make the new fare system into a massive tracking/surveillance system.
Yes
By blues_lead
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 9:11am
My understanding is that you will still be able to pay cash at the machines, you just be able to pay cash on board. So you can pay $5 for the card, and put $X on it, all anonymously (besides cameras, which are on the buses anyway).
From the article: "The new
By anon
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 8:05pm
From the article: "The new gates will also have something the current gates don't have: An area to tap for entry and exit. They'll be made that way in case state transportation officials ever decide they want people to pay to get out"
So Charlie for real will be riding 'neath the streets of Boston.
Or they could use exit taps to adjust the fare
By Neal
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 9:18am
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's how it's done in Seattle. Passengers tap their Orca Cards upon entry and are charged the highest fare, and when they exit, they tap their card again and some of that fare is refunded, if it does not exceed the highest fare.
They used to have exit fares
By anon
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 10:20am
They used to have exit fares at the southernmost Red Line stations on the Braintree branch.
I don't have a smartphone and
By Tim Mc.
Mon, 11/20/2017 - 11:17pm
I don't have a smartphone and none of my credit cards support NFC, so I guess it's the $5 card for me. I can deal with $5 if it's sturdy and will last for 5+ years, but I have a sinking feeling about that.
If we get what Chicago gets
By Waquiot
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 9:26am
It doesn't look too bad. They are issued with 5 year expiration dates printed on them, and you get your $5 back when you register- well, you probably don't get the money back, but it gets credited on your account. Since this is the same group doing Boston, we can cross our fingers and hope we get something like this.
one huge flaw
By fenway
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 4:59am
The proposed system wants to use contactless credit/debit cards. and most people right now don't have one as banks are not embracing the concept.
If you don't see this symbol on your card - it won't work
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02566/...
Um
By cybah
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 5:20am
No Contactless Credit/Debit cards also include ApplePay and Samsung Pay.
Allows
By blues_lead
Tue, 11/21/2017 - 9:17am
The new system allows contactless credit cards as fare media. It also allows passengers to use smartphone payment or smart card (basically Charlie Card) payment.
What if your phone dies?.....
By anon
Wed, 11/22/2017 - 12:19pm
What if your phone dies?..............
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