Hey, there! Log in / Register
Imagine that: Roslindale Square to Forest Hills in just six minutes
By adamg on Tue, 12/12/2017 - 9:21am
The T and the city coned off all the parking spaces from Roslindale Square to Forest Hills on Washington Street this morning to test out the logistics of having a dedicated bus and bike lane on the road that serves as a congested funnel for numerous bus routes serving Roslindale, West Roxbury and Dedham.
T workers in yellow vests stood at each intersection to keep cars out - aided by T police, who patrolled the route.
Bus riders were loving it, especially after months of delays at Ukraine Way due to the Arborway project that had gotten so bad many people had taken to getting off at Tollgate Way and walking to the Orange Line. Scotteric reports/a>:
Our 34e is at capacity so we didn’t stop to pick up anyone. Just arrived at the bus station. That was pretty amazing! Let’s do this all the time! 6 minutes, fastest ride from the square to forest hills I’ve ever had.
Tucc06, whose bus did make stops, reports the ride from the square to the station took all of 8 minutes.
Bicyclists also seemed to approve - they had a much wider lane in which to not worry about motorists. As I stood at South Street taking photos, one woman gliding by yelled out: "Best! Thing! Ever!"
Local activists Steve Gag and Alan Wright, who were walking the route handing out fliers explaining the test, said the one problem seemed to be at Archdale Road, because of the large number of motorists turning there. Moving the bus stop to the Forest Hills side of the route might fix that, they said.
There will be a similar test next Tuesday. . The T and BTD are planning a more formal three-week pilot this spring.
Neighborhoods:
Topics:
Free tagging:
Ad:
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
I think ideas like this are great
Look at that traffic. Make driving during rush hour so difficult that it makes the T the better choice so that the only people on thecroad are those that really need to be there (emergency vehicles, local deliveries, contractors, salespeople etc.)
When can we get two lanes of this on the expressway?
If anything, it'll improve
If anything, it'll improve the vehicle travel lane since they won't be stuck behind buses anymore. When I rode it this morning, vehicles were moving along smoothly with minimal backup. Everything bottlenecks as you approach Forest Hills due to the construction, that has nothing to do with this bus lane.
Plus, when buses are even
Plus, when buses are even more awesome from having dedicated lanes, more people will ride them, thus cramming the passenger loads from 40+ cars into a single vehicle in another lane. Love these dedicated lanes!
Perhaps
Yes, possibly more people will ride them only if the bus schedule is convenient to them. It is too early to say whether one bus will replace 40 plus cars that now exist.
Obviously, there are some
Obviously, there are some elements of a bus schedule that are going to be inconvenient for certain passengers, but I found using the GPS-driven bus schedule apps really opens up the value of taking a bus. I started taking a bus to work 3 years ago and being able to glance at my phone and know how far away the bus is and what alternatives there might be for my location have been mind-opening.
A bus behind schedule (especially when you are home) is less of a hassle if you know it and can delay your departure.
Yeah, but
not everyone has a smart phone, including yours truly.
And you may have more flexibility in taking the alternatives.
Good for you, though.
Yeah, but
not everyone has a car, including yours truly.
I knew you'd find a way to complain about this and make it about cars, totally threw a curveball with the smart phone issue.
Good for you, though!
Your phone doesn't need to be that smart
I'm stingy with my data, so I call 617-531-0173 every time I'm walking to the bus stop to find out when the next bus is coming. You just need to know the bus stop number (and the Roslindale municipal building's stop number is 00636.)
Did someone quack?
How are we supposed to hear you if you never get out of your car?
Oh. Wait. That's a feature.
If you have a computer, you
If you have a computer, you can check on the bus from home.
If you have unlimited texting
https://mbta.com/news/1880
I tried it.
It doesn’t work.
The "Catch the Bus" app makes
The "Catch the Bus" app makes life so much easier!
yeah, the availability of
yeah, the availability of decent real-time information has made bus riding so much more usable for me and many others.
Traffic
This won’t help vehicle traffic at all if you cannot get around left turning vehicles.
Not the intention
but how do you do that in the first place? When it's not a bus lane, there are parked cars, and bikes. The only solution on left turning vehicles is for the traffic headed in the other direction to stop and let them turn.
Buses should have priority
There are likely to be a lot more people on them than in those cars anyway.
The bus lane is not to blame
It's 50 people in 50 empty cars that are taking up roadway space, causing traffic congestion and making driving during rush hour difficult. Three buses carrying 45 people each should be given priority over 50+ single occupancy vehicles clogging the roadways.
Apologies to Stevil
I initially misinterpreted your post, but just reread it (I thought you were blaming the bus lane for the traffic) -I shouldn't comment before coffee.
No offense taken
I take the bus occasionally on this stretch of Washington and drive there. This looks like a win win once people get used to it. Hat tip to the transit peeps.
"50 people in 50 empty cars"
"50 people in 50 empty cars"
G-g-g-ghosts?!?!
Haha maybe! :-)
It's all a matter of perspective. If one were driving a box truck or a van with no cargo in the back, they'd likely be referred to as empty. The same standard should be held for a sedan, van, or SUV, etc. with no passengers.
I know, just playing. It is
I know, just playing. It is outstanding, though, how much traffic is caused by, and complained about, by people who are THE reason why it's so bad: people who don't carpool, or take public transportation.
Haha maybe! :-)
It's all a matter of perspective. If one were driving a box truck or a van with no cargo in the back, they'd likely be referred to as empty. The same standard should be held for a sedan, van, or SUV, etc. with no passengers.
Should help traffic for cars, too
When there is a dedicated bus lane, then there is also a dedicated car lane. Take all those busses out of the car lane, and there is a faster drive time, too.
Emergency vehicles
They can also use this lane to get through the traffic faster.
Kudos
I rode it this morning and it really was transformative. It knocked the bus commute time down by at least a half and that's probably being conservative. It even put riders in a much better mood, you could see and feel it. Thank you to the city and MBTA for being willing to think differently especially for residents in this part of Boston who don't live on the main subway. Hoping this can become a permanent solution eventually.
make this permanent..
..and do a trial in other parts of the city. The #9 Bus in South Boston, South End and Back Bay should have this same setup. That includes East and West Broadway in SoBoston.
Fantastic!
Nice work MBTA and the City of Boston. Dedicated bus lanes and bike lanes are a no-brainer for moving people around a city.
Make these permanent!
Awesome!
What can I say? I enjoyed my morning commute! Doesn't get much better than this. Well, it does, with the Orange Line Extension, but this is a very welcomed band-aid.
It Was Really Fantastic!
I usually bike or take the commuter rail because that stretch of Washington can literally take 25 minutes to go just one mile. But I took the bus today to see how things went, and aside from the construction impact where the bus lane ended, it was amazing. Took all of four minutes to get from Roslindale Square to Tollgate Way, and I suspect the pending completion of the Arborway project will make the last 200 yards nearly as easy. Regarding timing, my entire commute was only 10 minutes longer than the usual commuter train based commute. If the end of construction can shave off another five minutes (that part took 7, so it's not hard to imagine saving another 5), then I will see no reason to spend more for the train.
Finally....
....kicking and screaming the City of Boston is dragged into the present and doing something other than preserving free parking at all costs. If you travel anywhere you will see that most cities around the world implemented bus lanes a long time ago. This is neither novel nor innovative, just a standard low-cost low-hanging-fruit measure to get people where they are going. I hope to see the City of Boston, other municipalities, DCR and MassDOT Highway implement bus lanes throughout the area! Remember, the MBTA only drives the buses they don't control the roads.
Mass Ave next?
This is fantastic! Mass Ave should be next, at least on the southbound side from Hynes to Washington. There is a parking and bike lane here, which could both be easily repurposed — sacrificing about 200 parking spaces (and the uber/left drivers’ waiting aimlessly zone) for far better commutes for about 10,000 people a day. Let’s do it.
They
Still need to make the commuter rail in West Roxbury and Roslindale zone 1A!
Nope
Then Winchester, Winchester Center and stops in Newton would be 1A, too.
Not the town you live in, it is the distance.
Don't confuse them with the facts
They also think the city runs the T.
Actually that's not the case
Actually that's not the case as it is Zone 1A to Fairmont on the Readville Line, and that is a longer distance than Roslindale and West Roxbury on the Needham Line.
Yes, it should actually be 1A
Yes, it should actually be 1A. Looks at the maps; we are subsidizing Needham. It costs half the price to go from Bellevue to Needham Center even though it is a longer ride (mileage wise).
You can also take the train from Hyde Park to RI for less money than BB to Bellevue!
Yes, people who cross the 1A
Yes, people who cross the 1A-1 boundary are subsidizing the very few people who only ride from 1 to 2.
Commuter rail fares are out of control, except 1A is kept artificially low. This makes for absurd situations involving the 1A-1 boundary.
The solution? Lower the fares. Make them distance-based without any huge steps, and charge about 30 cents per mile with a $2.25 minimum.
Charging $1.50/mile is absurd if our goal is to encourage transit use.
Not artifically low
BUILD ME A GODDAMN LIGHT RAIL LINE AND WE WILL TALK.
1A are stations CLOSER than Braintree.
Same people who bitch about commuter rail fares are also bitching about "just drive buses on the lowell line right of way". Leave your couch and see the world people.
A light rail line would cost
A light rail line would cost a billion dollars.
Running the commuter rail more often and charging a lower fare? Nobody knows what that would cost, because nobody has officially proposed it.
Yes, but this is not nearly
Yes, but this is not nearly as ridiculous a situation as you present it. Of course tickets that don't involve Boston are going to be significantly cheaper - all the congestion and crowding is headed into Boston. Why shouldn't the T be discounting interzone travel, since every butt they get into a seat on those trips is essentially free money - it doesn't cost anything extra to carry a passenger from Hyde Park to RI.
I hope to see this happening...
...elsewhere in Boston. Soon!
This looks promising. But how
This looks promising. But how long until it looks like those dedicated bus lanes for the silver line on Washington Street in the South End?
Not the same type of lanes
I get your concern, but the implementation is quite different because it's only for two hours, rather than 20. They put cones all along Washington St. to physically separate the bus/bike lane from the car lane, and there was also a heavy staff presence, though I'm sure it will become smaller as the tests continue. With the cones and probably a greater density of buses than the Silver line creates, there really wasn't any good way for cars to try to use the lane. Also worth noting, the car lane was flowing better than usual, as there were no longer any buses to gobble up real estate.
The Silver line bus lanes in the South End have no physical separation because a parking lane remains between the bus lane and the curb. This requires that cars be able to cross through at any point along the route, and also encourages double parking. Neither is really possible in the Roslindale implementation.
As long as everyone behaves
I saw a cab make a right turn onto Washington (around Archdale) and zip right up the bus lane. If people cheat, the buses will lose all the gains. I hope they add some enforcement if the experiment continues.
In some cities, taxis are
In some cities, taxis are allowed to use bus lanes.
I know it's not the rule here (if there even is a rule behind the bunch of cones). But it works in other places, even when they have a lot more buses per hour than we do.
Exactly
The bus lanes on Washington St in the South End are backwards: They should be where the parking is and parking should be where the bus lane is. Another thing the City should look at is what Paris does. There, HOV lanes on city streets are physically separated by a curb, with breaks every few hundred feet and restricted for use only by buses, multi occupancy vehicles and vehicles accessing the parking lane.
My understanding is that
My understanding is that Paris doesn't get very many instances of accumulating snow. Any dividers on streets need to address the fact that we get snow and it has to be removed physically instead of waiting for it to melt.
Irrelevant. A bus lane is
Irrelevant. A bus lane is going to be plenty wide enough for a snowplow, since a snowplow is not any wider than a bus.
Irrelevant ---
Yes, a bus lane is wide enough for a snowplow but it isn't just that simple. If there's a barrier next to the bus lane, the snowplow can't push the show from the middle of the street all the way to the curb. Then there is a line of snow on the barrier and it melts and refreezes into black ice in the bus lane.
The issue is not the snowplow
The issue is the bollards/dividers, which both increase snow accumulation in the lane and impede snow removal.
If they go with an actual
If they go with an actual curb, it's still only maybe 6" tall - plenty low enough for the plows to push snow right over. You might end up with a little bit of snow sitting there, but that's hardly going to be a major issue.
If this actually were an issue, every road with a median would be a problem with snow removal.
One problem
How will the plows get all the snow to the wheelchair ramps and bus stops if there's a divider in the way?
Good point.
We need better enforcement in the South End.
What adding another travel lane can do
Keep up the good work. Add more travel lanes on more roads please!
Induced demand
is a thing. google it.
Induced demand - Yes, more people will take the bus
and then more buses will need to be added. Such a horrible thing for government to satisfy transportation demands of the public.
Our roads have mostly been at current capacity for 75 years while construction of new residences and businesses has continued unabated. It only makes sense to add roadway to satisfy the huge, pent up need for more transportation.
Boston population in 1940:
Boston population in 1940: 770,816
Boston population in 2017: 673,184
The problem isn't the number of residences. It's cars. And a lack of fast, frequent transit.
Here's the cool thing about these bus lanes
They actually make it so you can run more service without adding any buses. Because the bus is faster and more predictable, the schedule can be shortened and layover/recovery time reduced. So a bus that used to make 2 round trips at rush hour can instead make 3.
Take the sidewalk?
Take the sidewalk?
Pay for it?
Just "Add more travel lanes" is not particularly constructive without suggestions as to how..
I suggest "Fewer sing-occupancy motor vehicles please!" but without systematic murder, I don't know how to achieve that. And apparently that's really bad when state-subsidized.
Great!
What took them so long? This should have happened years ago.
Only weird thing was the sign at Cummins Hwy
As you came down Cummins into the square there was a big DOT sign which said 'No Stopping!' alternating with something about the bus lane. I then saw the person in front of me stop at the line, then run the red light as they presumably thought they were supposed to. There was a transit advocate there at the sidewalk who helpfully gave the driver the finger so good times abounded.
I waited for the green light assuming the No Stopping warning was for someone else although it was set up to be read by the drivers on Cummins Hwy.
Traffic vs Parking
I've joked about signs pertaining to parking being on the same poles as traffic regulations (Stop sign with No Stopping Anytime Tow Zone underneath). It's very rare that common sense doesn't prevail though... I'm concerned for this driver in a general sense.
There is a clear difference in design between traffic and parking regulatory signage. It's not a new thing.
Sure
It's just that in this location, the sign made no sense as worded. The curb parking on Cummins Highway wasn't impacted...
Is a portable electronic sign
Is a portable electronic sign a parking sign or a traffic sign?
Parking signs are still traffic signs
They just happen to convey parking restrictions and permissions, which is why they are of specific size, shape, and legend. Now, the majority of drivers typically encounter electronic message signs in situations that involve actual traffic movement. And, with rare exceptions, these electronic signs cannot be programmed to look like standard traffic signs.
So flashing "NO STOPPING" on an electronic message sign, which does not look like a normal permanent parking sign, at an intersection controlled by standard red-yellow-green traffic lights is a recipe for possible confusion. However, the solution is very simple - just MOVE the electronic sign far enough away from the intersection so that it's obvious the message does NOT apply to movements through the intersection.
duplicate comment
deleted
Duplicate comment
deleted
No Stopping means no stopping
No Stopping means no stopping (i.e. parking or waiting) at the curb. It doesn't mean ignore red lights :-)
Looks like a nightmare!
Looks like a nightmare! Wouldn't it be nice that everyone's schedule and place of employment allowed them the luxury of taking the bus. However, for many busy working parents with children, it's just not feasible to rely on public transportation. Furthermore, not everyone is physically able ride a bike to work, but keep pretending that this isn't a reality for many people while you're delighting in the fact that these people are stuck in artificially created gridlock for this morning's rush hour. Happy holidays, to all of you Grinches!
Do you ever drive on that stretch of Washington Street?
I ask because commuters in cars did not actually lose anything, as anybody who lives along or drives on the road would know: The road is always just one lane in each direction, and that didn't change this morning. And Washington Street has been a tough commute for years now, so that didn't change, either.
What did change is that people who normally park on the street had to find someplace else to park. That, perhaps, is an issue that needs to be addressed, especially after the 300-or-so-space lot across from Forest Hills goes away, but that's not an issue that affects people actually drive on the street.
I got BINGO
Didn't even need the free space with "artificial gridlock" on a road that already has only one lane each direction.
Keep on trollin'!
Your comment is just so wrong
The car lane works better when buses are no longer in it. This is a win for everybody with the exception of a few hundred parkers who may need to park slightly further from where they would prefer.
I remember this particular item coming up
Back in the 1990s (or perhaps early in the 2000s) the transportation reporter for the Globe penned a column when he complained about how the MBTA buses on this very stretch of road was slowing his commute, specifically because they didn't pull all the way over to pick up passengers. I had to write to him to explain that the buses were helping more people by doing that since if they pulled over, no one would let them back in.
Except for the loss of parking, this configuration is a win for drivers and a win for bus rides. Why anyone (other than those who live and park their cars on the street) would complain about this is beyond me.
Gentrification Issue
I am in favor of this, but there should be an awareness that eliminating on-street parking impacts lower income people who cannot afford an apartment that provides parking more than higher income residents.
“A developed country is not a
“A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation.”
- Gustavo Petro
I don't like losing parking
I'm going to pretend that it is an equity issue.
Yeah. Equity issue, that's it!
Never mind that this doesn't eliminate parking, it just regulates parking. You can still park overnight across the street and (gasp) cross the street!
It is an equity issue.
If the number of parking spaces are decreased, it means that a number of parking spaces are no longer available for those who live in the apartments along the route. Gasp!
Very simple math, actually. If you have 30 folks needing parking spaces for 30 cars and you get rid of 20, than those 20 will have to hunt for parking spaces. And if there are no parking spaces, because all the ones are already taken from folks living on the other side of the street, then I guess they are out of luck, right?
Yawn
Lets put it in simple language:
If it were a true equity issue, then the city would pay people to not have cars in the city.
Your bizarre fixation with OMG MY CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR is ridiculous. You are not owed any special subsidy for taking public land and polluting the air for your silly little entitlement fetish object.
Or they can just park on an
Or they can just park on an adjacent street.
artificially created gridlock
You mean all those cars just came down from heaven and were not driven there by human beings?
Amazing.
luxury of taking the bus
You're possibly the first person to ever imply riding the bus is a luxury for the elite.
I don't know about you
but I often peer through my opera glasses at the plebes driving their shoddy German-made SUVs along Washington Street, sip my morning-commute glass of Chablis, adjust my coat tails, and say to myself, "Thank God I can afford to ride the bus."
You have a weird idea of luxury
And for the record, buses during the time in question are quite full of people taking their children places.
There was no gridlock. EVERYONE got down Washington faster. Cars, buses, bikes, everyone.
This pilot bus lane took ZERO
This pilot bus lane took ZERO space from moving cars. It actually added capacity to the road, by taking the buses out of the travel lane into a new bus/bike lane that is normally occupied by the bike lane and parking lane. So drivers actually got more capacity with this bus lane in place. The fact that there are so many people driving is another issue altogether. Perhaps if transit were regularly faster, as it was today, some of those drivers would switch to transit, freeing up capacity for those who really do have no other option but to drive.
I'm sorry
I must have mistyped a URL or something... is this universalhub.com? Yeah? With a long comment thread about public transportation, where everyone seems to be agreeing with each other that dedicated bus/bike lanes are a good thing? No turds dropped into the punchbowl about over-entitled bikers, or bus driver pensions?
I'm scared, guys.
In New Jersey, politically
In New Jersey, politically-connected hacks get jail sentences for this kind of shit.
Feel better?
Good Experiment
I am all for fixing the bus issue. However, today test is really worthless. Unless the City is committed to, towing cars and plowing Washington St curb to curb. Otherwise this does not work. Today you had the DPW commissioner at the Square watching.The traffic pattern at the station is a large contributor to the bus problem and nothing has been done to fix that. The mornings can be bad but the afternoon is the real mess. The schedule is useless and it can be 30 minute wait for a bus that is then packed full. This glimpse of what it could be is really nothing more than for show unless it is backed fully by the city and I have not seen any backbone to do that. Lets see in the Spring when we do more than one commute
Great Innovation!
This should be implemented in place of GLX.
Wow
I ain't been driving on the train tracks since mah daddy got drunk and didn't wanna take the road!
The irony of the empty GLX bus
This would work on Somerville's heavily used Broadway to Sullivan, but not the actual GLX route. The bus line running parallel to the GLX corridor, MBTA 80, runs empty all day. In contrast, the Rozzie buses are packed, but the Roz Orange extension is "ludicrous" according to Stephanie "CLF-GLX" Pollack. $3.5 billion for the GLX, but zero bucks for West Station, Orange to Roz, Orange to Wynn, The Fairmount, et
It does? Go on, Professor.
First of all, the current cost estimates have GLX down to about $2b, but, yes, it is expensive.
But the 80 bus is empty? I've seen a lot of people getting off the 80 bus at Lechmere for an empty bus, I can tell you that much. Maybe it's empty where you see it, but it certainly picks up a lot of passengers along the way.
Also, it doesn't exactly run to Sullivan. But the buses that run there are pretty full, too.
Nelson Nygaard nailed this issue
Somerville bus use is lower than other regions in Boston, so why does the area get billions while others get nothing? see report link below. No matter how Sec Pollack and GM Ramirez fudge the numbers, Somerville does not merit even a billion for LRT. The 80 and 85 run dead through Somerville. Ultimately, Somerville bus service requires streamline & shrink, not expansion. 85 can be replaced with RIDE services, if RIDE wasn't an all out disaster. Global Contact, yet another terrible vendor decision by Sec Pollack. 80 buses can be redirected to Broadway. A few million for BRT-like components on Somerville's Broadway can be added to the capital planning, and that's it. That's all Somerville needs.
https://www.tbf.org/-/media/tbforg/files/reports/increasing-ridership-on...
What does the Fairmont Line have to do with Somerville
They’re completely different places.
Also, you should register and get a name. Not necessarily your real name. Perhaps “Bus 80”
Everything - Fairmount-Roz-GLX-West-Etc
They're all intertwined
Did you read the N/N Fairmount report? Specifically the GLX portion?
I read the introduction
Including the scope of the study and poured over the table of contents. No mention of Somerville or Roslindale. Lots about Dorchester, Mattapan, and Hyde Park for some reason.
Since I’m too lazy to read a 65 page report, how about some quotes to prove your point.
Hey, I read the whole thing
The GLX is barely mentioned, and only to point out the potential of the Fairmount Line. You are completely full of shit. No wonder you post as an anon.
You need help.
When the Needham Line trains are cut to pay for the GLX
And the Ros bus situation gets 5X worse, then maybe you'll understand. The state doesn't have a $1 billion match to pay for the GLX. Guess where the money is coming from. Existing service, maintenance, repair, and future cap pots. R.I.P Ros OLX, West Station.
That’s your opinion
And you are entitled to it, but after the BS you tried to serve up in regards to the Boston Foundation report, I am of the opinion that either you are delusional or have limited intellectual ability, which puts puts a cloud over your opinions.
Excellent points, excellent find
The N-N TBF report makes a great compare/contrast statement:: which expands to other sections of the region. The Rox OLX, West, and Fairmount should come before the Som GLX due to current ridership, need, and impact. Great move spotlighting it
I think you should read the report before commenting on it
The point of the comparison was to show that the quality of service provided by the Fairmount Line results in poor ridership compared to the quality of service provided by other projects. The report only makes judgements on the Fairmount Line. The report does not cast aspersions on any other proposed project at all. What you should be doing is not going on some delusional offensive against a project whose merits have been evaluated by the Federal Transit Administration and seen to be a public good by rather advocate for an upgrade of the Fairmount Line to rapid transit quality service. You know, like what they are doing with the GLX.
Another title, why does the GLX cut the line?
Winter Rozzie/Everett/Allston/Roxbury/Somerville improvements all come before Pollack's vanity project
Because it is a Big Dig mitigation requirement
In addition to cutting muster with the feds and getting funding because of the demonstrated need.
Arborway Green Line Ext was also Big Dig mitigation
It's gone,. forever
The GLX was unfeasible at $340 million in the mid 2000s
Were you even around then?
Bus 80 isn't the only input to that line
The 80 is usually packed at rush hour in both directions, and busy at most times of day.
There is actual data on this question
But rather than going to the official source, I defer to Miles. For those who don't want to click on the link, it's the least used bus out of Lechmere but still gets a decent ridership, mostly from Somerville, which would be the GLX area.
I do find the obsession with the 80 to be annoying. There are several buses that serve the GLX area in addition to the 80.
It doesn't just serve Lechmere
It serves intermediate spots in Somerville both ways all day.
Not all buses are used to commute into the city. We need to stop thinking like that.
So let's go anecdotal
And read with Miles wrote-
Saturday
Saturday
Fine
You were given hard data and objective anecdotal evidence of ridership. I suppose we could be like you and just make things up, so I’ll tell you that every rush hour run of this bus arrives at Lechmere packed to the gills. There. Are you happy?
Ah nope
I ride the 80 every day from Magoun. Sometimes I'm the only one on the bus
Probably because everyone
Probably because everyone else is riding the 89 into Sullivan.
I live just up the hill from Magoun and the 89 is often standing room only by the time it gets to Main St.
Every time I'm standing out in the freezing cold waiting for an 89 that may or may not come, and see one pass me by because it's too full, I repeat to myself "people on the Internet say buses in Somerville are empty" until magically, an empty bus appears to whisk me away to the Orange Line.
Wow, didn't expect this reaction. But glad it happened
Since the 90s its been the same brick wall. The GLX numbers don't work, period. From low existing bus ridership to trench construction costs. It simply doesn't work. Instead its been the same roller-coaster between "it's official, the GLX is happening" to "GLX is $bil/mil over, x is fired" for decades., The victims are renters aka students. Rent goes up based on speculation, goes down after the latest GLX overrun reveal. We can only hope the "GLX is $4 billion" reveal happens sooner rather than later in 2018 for the sake of everyone. Ros, Rox, Alls, everyone suffers, because everyone is paying billions for the GLX
There’s a report from the Boston Foundation
It’s not exactly about the GLX, but discusses how a project like the GLX can satisfy potential commuter demand and probably pay for itself. I don’t have a link, but hopefully some anon can put the link up in this thread so you can see for yourself.
$23 Million GLX operating loss each year - MBTA forced to absorb
Tufts and other groups refuse to chip in. They know Stephanie Pollack has a personal interest in the Green Line Extension. She will just skim and tax others, including you. Tufts+ will get the GLX whether or not they chip in. Rozzie will have to chip in, by force. And W. on a personal note. You call people stupid and unstable all the time because they make cogent arguments you disagree with, yet you made the claim that the GLX will pay for itself. There are no words.
Look
Go back to what that other anon wrote. He claimed that the Boston Foundation wrote a report that said the GLX should not be constructed, when the GLX is barely discussed. When someone claims that a report is about something when it is in fact not about that at all, I have to wonder about their mental state. I don't like belittling other people. I did it a few weeks back after nicely pointing out to someone that their repeated use of such language did not help the debate and they called me out on suggesting that. I just gave back.
It is not a cogent argument to just throw things out that have no bearing on the point at hand. Referencing a report that has nothing to do with the issue and claiming that the report shows something it didn't is not a cogent argument. Come back with something real and you'll get a real response. Heck, there's another crazy anon that says the T cannot even build the GLX because Amtrak will be running on the rails next to the line. You know, something the FTA would have noticed in the application and something that happens with the Orange Line between Back Bay and Forest Hills. Somehow this issue brings out anons with arguments that show a certain cognitive dissonance.
Double Yes!
This is the ultimate test. Will Pollack be objective and postpone the GLX for stronger winter resiliency after the latest round of failures.
Stop replying to yourself
It makes you look bad.
GLX will not be post poned
Get that out of your anonymous head!
It was COURT ORDERED and should have been built 25 years ago.
Again, the Arborway GLX 2.0 was also court-ordered
It was cancelled without penalty by its own author. The court-ordered line has been moot for years
Arborway failed its environmental review
And neither the city nor many of the abutters wanted the trolleys back. I don’t agree with the decision, but the facts are there. Conversely, GLX is so supported by the affected cities that they are pitching in with municipal funds to aid the project. The state backs it, as does the federal government.
You live in a world of alternative facts, which probably means the actual facts are lost on you.
State changed regs to get out of Arborway GLX
Hence why it failed. They found a loophole in the CLF crud and pounced. Guess who was in charge of state regs at the time? The same is happening with the GLX Medford. Most state and fed reps have called the project unsustainable. Most Somerville and Cambridge citizens agree the public payments are extortion. Nobody wants the Medford GLX except for the CLF, Secretary Pollack, nervous officials, realtors, and a few transportation enthusiasts. The transport $$$ would be better spent in Roz, Dudley, and E Boston
Um, okay, whataver
If this will make you sleep better at night, believe what you want to believe. The GLX is the worst idea in the history of public transportation. No one will ever ride it. It's going to cost trillions of dollars to build, and in the end Amtrak will no longer be able to run trains on Maine because of it. If these are the facts you choose to believe, nothing will ever convince you otherwise, and everything you see will convince you that your view is right, even if the things you see have nothing to do with the project.
That "report" is 5 years old
It isn't even linked on the Boston Foundation website.
Put up or shut up.
Not happening
Pollack will bankrupt the commonwealth before she cancels the Somerville GLX. Her own words. Really
Nope
The Commonwealth needs the GLX and much, much more.
Bankrupt? Seriously? No. Cost overruns that Mahtha and friends allowed to be paid out is the problem honey. Public transit will NOT bankrupt the Commonwealth. Building lots of roads and replacing them all the time out west will.
Yes! Somerville only needs BRT, not LRT
Put a larger quicker bus on the route between Tufts and Sullivan, and the slated GLX 2.2 billion can be put towards a rail system that doesn't crash 5-10 times a day
WTF?
You clearly do not work, live, or have ever been anywhere near this area.
Go away, troll!
Actually the numbers say no-build, not even BRT
BRT maybe in 2030, not today.
Logistically, almost no hitch
I had a fear that the construction in between Firth Road and Archdale that has been slowing my commute would still be going on, and the construction was going on in the parking lane, but the only hiccup for my commute was some odd wielding going on at one point. I do go in early (7:30 at the Square) so the benefit wasn't really there for us, except that somehow the bus was able to beat me from Tollgate to the station, a fact I cannot figure out. They still have to figure out how to deal with people taking rights at Ukraine Way and the buses going straight, but I'm certain that will clear up.
I will say that dealing with parking and the morning commute seems easier than dealing with the PM rush, but if that works out, the trip home will get very easy for folks.
Hyde Park Ave. Next Please!
nuff said.
I want to hear more about this
HPA from Forest Hills to Metropolitan Ave is 2 lanes each direction, so traffic seems to flow well (other than Forest Hills backups, of course.) Are you talking the Cleary Square area or something different?
Southbourne approximately
Toward (away from) Forest Hills can be pretty bad in the mornings (evenings). Start getting close to Walk Hill and Ukraine and it gets crazy. I used to bike on Hyde Park ave but too many close calls (cars inches from my handlebars at probably around 40 mph) forced me on to side streets until Walk Hill (and/or sidewalks). Also, I can't recall ever seeing less than two 32 busses - often four - back-to-back (primarily inbound) and packed.
So
Say clearing the parking from Walk Hill to Ukraine Way? You can't go further in since the buses have to get into the left lane.
Not too much can be done outbound. There is congestion at Blakemore and at Roslindale's Bermuda Triangle (Cummins, Canterbury, and Hyde Park Ave) but those are short distances.
Wish list
Neponset or Southbourne up to Weld Hill inbound AM.
Ukraine (or Walk Hill) to at least Blakemore outbound PM.
Just my personal wish list.
Yeah traffic does flow pretty well from Eldridge Road south; but that's the problem. Although speed limit is 30 people effectively drive at speeds as if they're on a 2-lane 55 mph highway. I've had my own close calls and I've seen some really bad car wrecks on this stretch. I see a lot of bike commuters trying to use Hyde Park Ave. as well. Also, once those new condos and the new apartments become occupied (near Walk Hill and Ukraine), that's probably going to add another level to the chaos of getting through this area.
I disagree respectively with your second idea
I walk from Forest Hills to Florian or sometimes Blakemore in the PM (need the exercise.) The traffic flows well up to Neponset, then between the Neponset cut through traffic and the light at Blakemore all goes to pot.
How about HydePark Ave?
The equivalent trip on Hyde Park Ave (Cummins Highway to Forest Hills), served by one bus route, takes far longer than 6
minutes.
I've done it in 8 minutes
At 8 in the morning, but only when school is out. Other times, I'm off the bus before Walk Hill and still making better time than the bus.
Footpad has some good thoughts.
Recipe for Road Rage Waiting
Recipe for Road Rage Waiting to Happen.
Why?
No space was taken from cars. Cars actually gained space without buses there.
Are you saying that we can't have nice things because drivers can't be trusted to throw motorized tantrums when not feeling completely special all the time?
Flagmen instead of cops?
I'm sure Boston's finest weren't happy seeing MBTA flagmen directing traffic on city streets. This experiment won't last long when the powerful police unions from BPD and MSP decide to fight the bus lane unless more police details are hired.
There were cops there
I passed 2 staties on foot who tried to stop a car that was in the bus lane. To be fair to the driver, this was right at Ukraine Way.
Look at all that space! Has
Look at all that space! Has anyone ever thought about having an elevated train line along Washington Street?
Question for cyclists: if
Question for cyclists: if there was a dedicated bus lane that would make it faster for you to commute to and from work, would you opt for taking public transportation, ie the bus, instead of cycling?
Maybe
Here's the thing: let's say you live in Westie and work at the LMA. If you take the bus and train, you have to transfer at Forest Hills and then walk from Ruggles. If you bike, it's a one-seat ride to your office.
But cyclists generally support transit! It means fewer deathmobiles (cars) on the road. We should have a discussion (not screaming match please!) about the merits of shared bus/bike lanes like this one where streets are not wide enough for both.
Most cyclists use all modes
Most Rozzy cyclists that I know are firmly in favor of this lane not only because we also take the bus at times, but because it is superior for safety over the narrow door zone bike lanes on Washington.
fewer deathmobiles (cars) on
Anecdotally, I've found bus drivers to be the least courteous to cyclists. Even taxis are better. Buses terrify me.
It seems like they never actually realize how long their vehicle is, and move back over after only the front half has actually passed you, and they don't generally move over far enough or slow down at all when passing.
As for shared bus/bike lanes, I guess they're better than sharing a lane with all traffic, but it would make me very nervous to have a bus that was full and thus not making stops stuck behind me the whole way in. It also sucks getting stuck behind one (or multiple) that are making stops. A face full of diesel exhaust on a cold morning is not fun.
Buses not stoping
The thing is, they have to stop, because the bus in front of them is making all stops. That's one of the differences between a dedicated bus lane and a lane the buses pull in and out of at stops. With the bus only lane, there is no way for a full bus to pass a stopped bus in front of it. So there's no skip stopping, but there is also less bunching, because the bus ahead of the line isn't stuck in gridlock.
Pages