By adamg on Fri., 6/8/2018 - 5:14 pm 
Plenty of time to take a photo of the gridlock.
Butch reports it took him 45 minutes to go the roughly two miles from Jamaicaway to Forest Hills this afternoon.
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Not so fast...
By 500Monkeys
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 6:53pm
There is more construction activity out there right now than at almost any point since the overpass demolition. There are lane restrictions and raised manhole covers all over the area - north, south, east, west - as they get ready for final paving and striping over the next few weeks. Construction continues in the central median and on the two (!!) central plazas. The northern head house and upper busway roof are still to come, but that steel is starting to be staged for erection it looks like. Yesterday the southbound turn lane onto South Street from the eastbound Arborway was closed entirely. There is ongoing construction and ever-changing detours at every pedestrian-used corner and crosswalk from the Courthouse to the Arboretum, from St. Mark to Ukraine Way. The bike lanes are a weekday parking lot by the Courthouse since the permanent parking in the bus yard hasn't been provided yet. It is definitely no picnic for any mode right now. But because of all that I firmly believe it is too early to judge the effectiveness of the final configuration - we just aren't there yet. The whole point was to provide a multi-mode solution for all users and an improved recreational corridor for the city on these parkways - and I think it will get there before they're done.
Though horses would currently be faster than cars at rush hour, I recommend holding 'em for now.
Arborway Mess
By Green Team
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 7:26pm
I understand everything you said but it would be great if the raised castings were done in small phases rather than raising most of them closing lanes and snarling traffic until the roads are paved. This is a major thoroughfare with three main roads meeting in one location including a major hub for the MBTA. It appears to me that the Commonwealth didn't take that into consideration when the project was funded. So much for the initial impact study. When this mess is complete it will be much nicer and a pleasant parkway than the ugly metal structure called an overpass hovering over what was meant to be the connection of the Emerald Necklace from Jamaica Pond to Franklin Park by Fredrick Law Olmstead (the man that brought you the Boston Common and oh yes Franklin Park). Until then I will continue to bypass this mess of a project!!!
It's Olmsted. And no, he didn
By anon
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 12:39pm
It's Olmsted. And no, he didn't bring us Boston Common. Did you really type those words? Or Franklin Park, for that matter. The land was sitting there, Olmsted didn't pay for it, and he didn't import it from France. Olmsted's park design did not include a golf course. Or ponds. Or a zoo. Or a hospital complex. Or a sports stadium. But if you squint, the rest is his. Sort of.
Sorry, Olmstead Designed both
By Green Team
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 7:53pm
Sorry, Olmstead Designed both including the Emerald Necklace. (Wikipedia)
Green Team loses
By anon
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 10:28pm
Wikipedia does not confirm your wrong statement about Olmstead. It's interesting that you cite Wikipedia , but no links to anything.
So here we go, with links
Olmstead article.No mention of Boston Common
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Law_Olmsted
Boston Common article. No mention of Olmstead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Common
Green Team draws
By Waquiot
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 9:04am
Franklin Park is indeed an Olmsted creation. Boston Common predated Olmsted by a few centuries, so suffice to say he didn't create it.
it would be great if the
By Rob
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 9:03pm
No it wouldn't.
If they did it in small pieces, you'd complain about how long it was taking and the quality of the final result - seams between short segments all the way down the road, trying to match grade and pitch for each one.
It would be great if they
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 2:28pm
It would be great if they installed the raised castings one day, then paved the next day.
Usually they put in the raised castings, leave it a bumpy mess for a month, then sweep in one night and pave it all.
Yes,but will it EVER be done?
By hollydollydoo
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 7:49pm
Yes,but will it EVER be done???
Your continuing enthusiasm is heartening
By Waquiot
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 11:00pm
Despite the contractor's best efforts to break you.
First, why is this work being done during times of high traffic volumes. Feeney are doing work that involves closing lanes of Hyde Park Ave by the Forest Hills T parking lot, but they don't do it at peak times. Heck, they get a lot of it done on Saturdays. There are roads with raised casings all over the place- just go on any parkway in the West Roxbury area and you'll see. Yet somehow cars manage to travel on those roads with a minimum of fuss.
Second, your description of what is going on does expose the lie that is the construction timetable. Major work was supposed to be completed by December, and I give them enough credit in that the lanes shifted by then, but they also said that the minor features would be done by now (ignoring the situation at the upper busway, because after all bus riders don't count.) Will they ever be done? Is it possible to have more than 5 workers on the site at one time?
Third, why the heck did they build a bike lane only to have it used for parking. I really hate to use harsh language, but that is utter bullshit. They are planning on using an existing space for parking. They've had 3 years to get it done.
In short, this is a horribly mismanaged project that proves how horribly the planning was. I really, really want them to prove me wrong, but things like this just make me think I am right.
Indeed
By Michael Kerpan
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 12:07am
A half-hearted, poky effort overall -- and next to no effort at all so far for the benefit of bus riders.
Must be lots of JPers voting up this bull pucky apologia
By Jeff F
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 4:34pm
I was in this traffic jam. Finally got off the 39 around where James Gate used to be and walked the last few blocks to FH in order to catch my connection (passed the previous 39 which had been 10 minutes ahead of us before I even got there).
At 4pm all the traffic lanes were open. There was no construction taking place (same as many other times when I've encountered horrendous traffic). You asserion about the turn onto South street being closed at that time is false.
Also when the traffic is already crawling at ~3mph, raised castings make no additional difference. You don't see the drag effects of things like that unless the traffic is already going 20+ mph. And the fact that bike and pedestrian travel is impeded by sidewalk construction makes, if anything, a positive impact on vehicle flow, as there are fewer places where peds/bikes wait to cross.
Forest Hills is a mess, far far worse that it's been in the past. The project to 'fix' if has cost far more, taken far longer, and inconvenienced many more Bostonians than any of its defenders are willing to admit.
But hey, all you JPers living nearby get such great views when you look to the southwest now! Who cares if the (often less-well-heeled, often darker-skinned) folks of Roslindale et al are having hours, days, weeks of their lives wasted, stolen by this fustercluck, amirite?
Please show the class
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 10:05am
Present the studies and cost estimates that prove that replacing the bridge would not have caused such issues.
That Rainbow Brite herself would have magicked away all the cars to make it all better, and made it as cost efficient in less time than building a new OMG change nothing egostructure memorial to lost opportunities.
The southbound South St turn lane WAS closed on the 7th
By 500Monkeys
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 10:59am
...the day before I wrote my post (check the date). I'm under the impression that was also the date of the photo that I was responding to as well.
Raised manhole covers - and sketchy lane markings - throughout the project area absolutely disrupt the speed/comfort/confidence/progress of motor vehicles. Detour tape, cones and closed crosswalks, pathways and desire lines absolutely disrupt the passage of pedestrians and bikes - I don't see how you could dispute that.
Given the state of flux and confusion things are a mess right now throughout, for ALL modes - as I stated.
On the delays: The Mass Historical Commission spent a year considering the conversion of Shea Circle to 'Shea Square' before demolition even began. MBTA blew a year of work on the central plazas fumbling the platform jet fans (their original responsibility rather than the Highway Division), and another 6 months at least foot dragging the upper busway roof design and procurement (not to mention the interior station ADA work which you'll properly complain about for the next few years). MBTA and Highway are both part of MassDOT, but the lack of coordination between these state agencies/departments has been a significant factor in the timeline erosion in my view.
No one ever imagined the construction period was going to be a picnic, but many, many organizations and individuals who participated in and followed the planning process closely believed then and continue to believe now that the END result will be worth it for Forest Hills, JP, the rest of the city and the region.
And I'm not touching your classism or racism charges.
This kind of gridlock will
By anon
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 6:56pm
This kind of gridlock will keep increasing all over Boston in proportion to all the parking spaces being added to the city's supply at every new office building in the city. Walsh needs to show some leadership and reduce or eliminate parking spaces built at new office and commercial buildings. And Baker needs to stop dithering with the mbta and do more than not cancelling all of Patrick's initiatives moving forward. Baker and Walsh may be car guys too important to use public transportation, but the rest of the areas residents need more and better service.
Blocking the "box"
By Daan
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 8:04pm
How much of the gridlock was caused by folks who went through a yellow light and then had to stop in the intersection box - causing drivers on the crossing road delays?
Downtown on Oliver Street a 4 bus waited 5 minutes at Oliver and the 93 exit because with every light cycle drivers pulled out of the exit into the box in spite of the yellow light indicating to stop. So traffic that had the green signal could not move. Gridlock.
If the city BTD actually did their job they would have cops at both this intersection and Forest Hills playing parent since many drivers are playing as children.
When drivers start following simple rules and common sense of using the road then they can start kvetching about how "those people" are messing things up.
As bad as a person who didn't vote whining about Trump.
They really should have
By anon
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 8:16pm
They really should have someone flagging at these sites. Doesn't have to be a cop - private flaggers are allowed in Massachusetts.
Don't Block the Box
By BB from Dot
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 10:19pm
In NYC there are serious fines for "blocking the box" i.e. an intersection. I've seen a few signs in Boston like that, but very few. What a great way for the city to make money if we posted and enforced it.
Enforcement there is a little different
By Neal
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 1:42am
The boxes are camera enforced, so cars that remain the intersection after the light changes get tickets in the mail (and points on their insurance). Also, there is no right turn on red allowed in New York City, so that helps reduce gridlock caused by cars entering the intersection and obstructing the way for cars with a green.
At least half wrong, and
By Rob
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 6:30pm
At least half wrong, and maybe all wrong.
Wrong. What actually happens in NYC as opposed to most other places is that that Turn On Red is legal only where specifically posted (most other places you can unless there's a No Turn On Red sign) because (in part) of all the one-way streets and special lanes.
I'm less sure about that. NYCDOT website is clear that they use camera enforcement for red-light violations at some locations. While red-light violations certainly can contribute to gridlock, the most recent release I could find about gridlock and painted & signed don't-block intersections was for live, in-person enforcement.
You are correct, NYC does not
By DTP
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 8:47am
You are correct, NYC does not currently use cameras to enforce 'don't block the box', but they are considering doing so, and de Blasio supports it.
But the vast majority of
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 2:33pm
But the vast majority of traffic lights in NYC don't have the "Right on red allowed after stop" sign. The ones that do are in very quiet areas.
Blocking the box
By eva
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 1:33pm
Here is some real info I got a few weeks ago:
"There are plans for Don't Block the Box markings at South and Washington, and also at the busway intersection near Arborway and Washington Street."
I hate the construction and have been waiting for it to end for months... As a bicyclist, I love the new design, and I'll love having easier access to the other side of Arborway. Even if I didn't, that ship sailed years ago... why waste energy on something that's a done deal?
I've heard it said again and again... traffic will increase up to any new capacity that is built, which means that traffic is never going away. If you live in a city, that's a given. If you live outside the city, you'll be stuck in traffic driving in.
As an individual, you have to come up with a strategy for reducing the impact on yourself. In our household, we use a mix of public transport, a car, a scooter, and a bicycle, depending on where we're going and how far it is.
Best thing I ever did was move the hell out of JP
By anon
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 9:52pm
Lived in Roslindale and Hyde Park, too; Washington St is a cluster F of epic proportions, as are the streets around F.H. The planners who originally designed the streets and housing, I don't know what they were thinking making a main atreet so narrow going tbrough JP up to The West Roxbury Pkwy intersection; from tbat point onwards into Dedham, it turns into a Los Angeles-like Blvd.
So grateful to live in JP
By Sally
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 6:40am
so that I rarely HAVE to drive anywhere. I understand that some people HAVE to drive but it’s amazing to me that people are like “it took me an hour to drive the three blocks from my house to Dunkies!!†and then they wonder why the traffic is so bad. If you are able-bodied, think about how you can AVOID using your car for every trip to CVS and then maybe everyone will get around a little easier. If we don’t build build and plan so that people can walk, bike or T to where they need to go, this problem will never go away.
Another over-entitled JPer - never been past Forest Hills?
By Jeff F
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 4:03pm
Nice strawman - No one here said anything like that line you "quoted".
Fyi, over a third of the city lies to the south and west of the FH 'terminal'. None of us Bostonians who live in that third are within walking distance of a regular T station.
Also fyi, a great many of us already live without cars. I, for instance, was stuck in that traffic jam, on the 39 bus, with a big-ass package, trying to get to FH so I could take *another* bus, and then walk about a quarter mile up a hill to get home. A one way trip of about 5 miles took nearly an hour and a half.
Before you spout off with holier-than-thou platitudes, take a moment to consider that unlike you, most Bostonians don't live within a couple blocks of a vibrant commercial district with multiple mass transit options at their fingertips.
And the screwed up traffic at FH really is worse than it was - much worse - and it really does affect our lives in substantial, negative ways. It steals hours of time from us every week - and that adds up to days, even weeks of our life every year.
- a former JPer who loves the neighborhood but wishes fewer smug assh*les lived there.
you're close
By SC from JP
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 8:03am
You even hint at the real problem. Instead of finger-wagging about people's transportation choices, we need to support increased building in JP and other transit-accessible areas, so more folks have viable options that don't involve a car. It's obvious that the bulk of traffic moving through FH are residents of areas south and east. They might like to live somewhere like JP and not have to deal with this mess, but they can't afford it because JP doesn't have enough housing units.
Oh, Sally..
By whyaduck
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 9:12am
It is not the folks driving to CVS and back that are causing the bulk of traffic congestion. It is every day commuters, by and large, including the influx of Uber and Lyft drivers, a sucky public transit system, fewer folks being able to live near were they work, inadequate road system to handle all the traffic, etc.
Yep
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 10:12am
And they need to get on bikes when they can and stfu.
Hey
By No Name Nobody
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 10:33pm
As long as construction workers and police can stand around and make Top Dollar for another 2-3 years. "Traffic problems" who cares. Go Marty
How many of those construction workers are union?
By anon
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 10:51am
You do know unions are major $supporters$ of Democratic and 'progressive' politicians and campaigns?
Disclaimer: I'm a union member.
Not many
By Waquiot
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 10:03pm
Since they typically have only 5 guys out there from day to day. But they are probably all union members. All five of them.
I wonder who came up with the bright idea ....
By Michael Kerpan
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 12:45pm
... of rarely (if ever) using more than skeleton crews for the work on Forest Hills Station?
Check your jurisdiction
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 1:28pm
This is a MassDOT project. Not City of Boston.
Yeah, it is a amazing
By whyaduck
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 9:13am
nothing gets done with all those union guys just standing around on projects. Just look how many never, ever get finished.
HEY EVERYONE
By rb
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 10:55pm
LET'S ALL DRIVE TO THE SAME PLACE AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!
It's not a traffic jam
By SwirlyGrrl
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 11:04pm
It's a flashmob with cars! Or a meetup ...
Absolute shit show
By anon
Fri, 06/08/2018 - 11:35pm
I was trying to get from Dot to West Roxbury last night at 7:00pm.
Seems like the traffic patterns are close to done but it sucked ass.
I was just trying to stay in the middle lane to get thru Forest Hills and there were left only and right only lanes popping up forcing people into my lane.
Lights seemed timed wrong too.
Traffic should flow better non-rush hour, never mind rush hour.
BTW, I'm all for bike traffic and lowering car volume. I'd stick a needle in my eye before I rode a bike thru there.
I'd like to hear from the
By anon
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 10:03am
I'd like to hear from the cyclists who were in favor of eliminating the overpass: has cycling through this neighborhood improved now that it is gone?
IIRC
By Ari O
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 11:31pm
It wasn't just cyclists.
It saved $20 million, too.
But, yeah, blame the cyclists.
One little thing
By Waquiot
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 2:29pm
The non bridge project is now budgeted at $10 million (and rising) over the estimated cost of the bridge proposal.
In the end, the cycling community was used to sell a project that has lead to what is pictured.
My dear
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 12:28pm
Then what would the bridge project have cost?
Stop living in yesterday - your rosy eyed nostalgia is sad and innacurate.
My view of the past is dead accurate
By Waquiot
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 3:36pm
The overpass was built to prevent gridlock in the area. Now the overpass is down, and this is what you get.
Last week, I saw an ambulance trying to get from the Mattapan side to the Arboretum side. Lights and siren on. In traffic. Any yes, it happened (which I will admit is a coincidence that works with what happened later in the week) and no, it would not have happened if there was an overpass still.
But sure, let's ignore the evidence right in front of us. The at grade solution is working gangbusters. All the rest of us have to do is start wearing your rose colored glasses.
I’m a Roslindale Cyclist that
By anon
Sun, 06/10/2018 - 8:26am
I’m a Roslindale Cyclist that was against the JP yuppie bridge haters, now look at the mess of double parked cars alongside FH. Thanks naive JP scum
Traffic counts changed much...?
By b from Ros
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 10:28am
Design is only part of the conversation. Are more people trying to pass through these days?
Good point
By anon
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 2:00pm
That's a good point that metrics are needed to see what's really going on. Though if I had to take a guess I would say that traffic through the area has decreased, due to people finding alternate routes due to the construction (and sticking with them).
But how good were the alternatives?
By Waquiot
Sat, 06/09/2018 - 3:04pm
Forest Hills is a chokepoint for a reason. Lots of roads come together, and between the railroad tracks, cemeteries, and of course the Arboretum, there are a lot of obstructions. At some point, the alternative routes become onerous and you hope the original routes will get better.
Missing the over pass yet?
By whyaduck
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 9:14am
I guess there was a good reason to keep it, huh?
No
By anon
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 9:47am
You are ridiculous. You don't live there. You don't seem to have the slightest idea of the FACT that REPLACING the overpass was STUDIED and REJECTED because it would have caused far more problems and cost far more money.
Oh, BUT MY CAR. Yes dear. You have a car. How special.
Cost more money? Yes
By Waquiot
Mon, 06/11/2018 - 10:47am
But replacing something with basically the same thing would not have caused "far more problems."
Of course, the original study did say that the at grade option would add no more than 45 seconds to the time it would take a vehicle to get from Franklin Park to the Arboretum, so we can see now that the study might have been a little bit off.
-signed, someone who remembers the rehab of the bridge in the 1980s.
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