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Might want to be a tad more careful where you park in Boston
By adamg on Mon, 07/02/2018 - 9:33am
Parking-ticket fees have just gone up.
Special bonus: The city will no longer tow cars blocking street sweepers on streets with overnight sweeping. Instead, the owners of those cars will get $90 fines. People who park in no-parking zones on streets with daytime sweeping will get $40 fines - and might just have to pay even more, because towing of those cars will continue.
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Space saver fines-
Space saver fines-
Chair: $90
Broken Chair (left leg) $120
Broken Chair (right leg) $110
Furniture before 1983: $100
Furniture after 1983: $90
Tasteless Furniture: $200
Furniture with elegance and design: $10
Working kitchen appliance:$80
Broken kitchen appliance: $200
Grandmother, child, pet or someone with sad face: $40
Pet supplies: $100
Anything from LL Bean: $500
Dead Animals: $20
What the hell is that: $300
All others: $400
what a difference a word makes!
Methinks you meant "owners of those cars will get $90 tickets."
Ouch. I wonder if that will include outer neighborhood side streets where, wrt street cleaning, it's been passingly rare for cars to be towed or ticketed up to now.
Fine, just fine
Thanks, fixed - and, yes, I should confine my writing to air-conditioned rooms, not our porch!
Has anyone pointed out that
Has anyone pointed out that street cleaning in central neighborhoods every single night of the week from 2:01 am to 7 am is ridiculous? Why not just do it once a week on each side, so people can park overnight when the T isn't running, or do early-morning business in the city?
Right?
What happens if you want to have sex with a girl in Beacon Hill or Back Bay and sleep over?
Or if there's an urgent
Or if there's an urgent problem with a server at 3 am, and you have to drive to the office to fix it.
Cue the whining …
OH NOES people who are able to pass a driving test and pay for a car and insurance and gas and maintenance will now be CHARGED more by the GOVERNMENT when they BREAK THE LAW by not being able to FOLLOW DIRECTIONS which are posted on signs. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Who know what's next: the city may try to enforce speeding violations? The horrors!
Have a lot of coffee
This morning, Ari?
So government should get more money?
Why do you support this regressive tax?
Will my man, heres the thing
If you break the law, you get fined in some cases. Its not a tax because its pretty simple to avoid, just don't break the law and you don't have to worry about a fine.
But then again, the major issue is BPD/BTD don't have the best track record when it comes to enforcing laws that keep our roads safe. I'd love to see a point where BPD is even ticketing cyclists that break the law, all that together would make our streets safer for all.
Instead, here we are arguing that people who illegally park are being persecuted by the city government,
Because there's never
Because there's never anything confusing or unfair about parking rules or enforcement.
For example, I've never gotten a straight answer about what these signs mean on Saturday and Monday morning. Or how a guest is supposed to get any sleep when they have to move their car every 2 hours all night. https://goo.gl/maps/bqJTL5Zit8k
Guest should ...
... leave car at home.
Yeah, if everyone else just
Yeah, if everyone else just left their cars at home, think of how little traffic you would have to deal with, and how easy it would be to park when you got there.
This sounds like a great recipe for an equitable and convenient transportation system.
Wait, where's the transit improvement? Well, this plan has the same exact transit improvements that were provided when Southie got resident parking: None.
This is the same exact
This is the same exact transit improvement plan that is being provided along with these increased parking fines.
Won't someone think about the
Won't someone think about the tourists who are too lazy to take the T and too cheap to pay for parking!?!
The Cheapest Tourists
... park somewhere outside the city and take the T into the city.
Done this with NYC several times.
Just wondering.
Do you park in Westchester and then pay for the Metro-North and MTA? Or do you pay to cross the GW or Tappan Zee and then pay for NJ transit and then pay for MTA? Do you park illegally in residentially or street cleaning signed Riverdale (if you take the HH Parkway) and then take the 1 train over an hour into the city? Do you leave your car on the east side of the Bronx (if you take 95) and the take an MTA bus to to the 6 for over an hour?
Seriously, you might be able to spin this ball of yarn to people who don't know NYC, but this claim is ridiculous. The options are not cheaper than parking in Manhattan, and even if you saved a few bucks, why go through the aggravation of it all?
None of those
There are other options that don't involve any of those. You clearly haven't used the internet to try this in eons.
I won't list them here as they are numerous and variable, but it doesn't involve hours on trains ... and it really depends on where in the city you intend to end up and where you are coming from.
Let me explain how this is done for those who know that you can use the internet to find parking: you go online and search for one of the parking sites that covers the area where you wish to ditch the car. Then you look into which of the possibilities might offer a weekend or multi-overnight rate.
It ain't the 1980s when you took your chances with street parking.
Give me a break.
"I won't list them here as they are numerous and variable, but it doesn't involve hours on trains ... and it really depends on where in the city you intend to end up and where you are coming from."
i.e. I lied and was called out on my bullshit.
Those are literally the only ways into Manhattan from Boston via public transportation, not even counting CT. You said you park outside the city and take the subway in because it's cheaper and that just isn't true.
Tell me the last time you went to Manhattan, what neighborhood you stayed, where you parked outside the city, what train you took not using those options and the total cost. i'll find you a garage that's cheaper and more cost efficient.
I'll step in.
Was going to NYC for a day on the weekend. Rather than drive to the City, pay the tolls and deal with the traffic (yes, there's even traffic there on weekends) I drove to Darien, right off the highway, paid nothing to park in a big commuter lot. Caught an express train to the City, got off at 125th 50ish minutes later, and took an M60 over to meet friends in Queens. Later I took the N back downtown to catch the train back up from GCT.
But, yes, let me know about the Midtown garage which is cheaper.
(FWIW, with multiple people you can usually find a space on the UES/UWS and take the subway from there.)
Another option
If you have multiple people, it can be cheaper to drive in and then bury the car for the duration. Again, all it takes is a bit of planning and internet use.
My son and his friends have done this several times - they use the internet to find a garage or lot in the neighborhood they plan to stay in that had a weekend or multi-day rate, and used transit to get to places in Manhattan, to Yankee Stadium, etc.
I have also done similar in Montreal, ditching the car for $30 CD for 72 hours and using the bikes for a long weekend stay.
Looks like JPNative needs to learn some computer skillz.
No, he doesn’t. JP is right
No, he doesn’t. JP is right on.
I lived there (with a roommate that had a car for a few years, also rented cars all the time, drove delivery vehicles for jobs) and I laugh at you.
Park in the LES or East Village — been doing that for multiple visits over the course of the 7 years it’s been since I moved from NYC and I have never gotten a ticket. Overnight parking, day parking, leaving car on the street for 2 days.
Yes, if you want to park in midtown then by all means think you are saving money while wasting time taking public transit in.
Lived in NYC for 7 years
Lived in NYC for 7 years (Manhattan for 6, Flatbush for 1) and came here to say YES TO ALL THIS!
People who think they are beating the system by parking in the outer borrows are being fleeced.
If the sign is confusing
And a visitor gets a ticket, the best thing would be to challenge the ticket. I'd say the same if the fine were $10 or $100.
Otherwise, the best thing is to obey the signs or other markings.
The fine amounts are to discourage illegal parking. Some illegal parking involves safety issues. Other illegal parking involves quality of life issues (resident parking, two hour parking limits in business districts.) When the fine amounts are too low, it's more worth while to get a ticket than to park in a lot or garage.
No, the best thing would be
No, the best thing would be if the city didn't put up confusing signs.
The sign makes sense
Just follow the rules between Monday and Friday. Any tickets outside of those times should be thrown out.
But unless the fine amounts
But unless the fine amounts are posted (and maybe they should be), higher fines are not a deterrent. Look at the difference between a sign that says "do not block intersection" vs one that says "don't block the box - $150 fine".
$10 is enough of an annoyance for most people. Most law-biding folks don't want to break the law, even if it's a minor ordinance that's hurting absolutely no one. The small percentage who don't care aren't going to be deterred any more at $60 than they were at $40.
That's understood
But it's still regressive. The fine is $40 whether you make $26,000 a year or $260,000 a year.
Why is the fine increasing? $25 to $40 is a 60% increase. Do you believe in your heart of hearts that government services will improve by 60 percent?
Honestly astonishing to me the number of people who blithely accept that their government at any level will spend their forcefully taken money wisely and efficiently despite repeated examples to the contrary.
they charge fines as a
they charge fines as a deterrent, the income the city gets from it is aside the fact. $25 dollars has been shown not to be a great deterrent, because people still do the thing, so they're increasing the dollar amount. plenty of people who wouldn't blink at $25 may think twice about losing 40.
that said, I agree its regressive, and these kind of fines are just the cost of doing business for the rich and entitled. the fine should really be some kind of percentage point, the way speeding tickets in sweden are.
Doesn't matter what you make
You choose to park you vehicles in a way that breaks the law, you pay the fine. Choose to speed or run a red light, same deal. If you want to take your own advice, vote in someone to the city council that supports your idea here.
As for loaded question you setup, I'm not answering that. Instead, refer to the Citys announcements about these increases and how the additional revenue will be used for further parking enforcement, bus lanes and other transit efforts. I do believe in my heart of hearts this will improve transit in the city, with BTD/BPD enforcing the laws being a part of that.
Honestly its amazing to see the number of libertarians that blithely hand wave away fines for breaking the law as the big evil government forcefully taking money from them. Something something personal responsibility right?
Wasn't my responsibility
Until government made it one.
Go look up "voluntary" again.
Driving is voluntary
Parking your car is voluntary.
Being responsible for where you store your vehicle is not voluntary.
You do know
It was the gummint built the road, right?
Roads cost money. Paving,
Roads cost money. Paving, cleaning, plowing etc. costs the city tens of millions of dollars per year. Why should people without cars subsidize people who chose to drive in a city? Why shouldn't drivers who break the law pony up and pay for the roads they use? Parking on city streets is a privilege, not a right.
Which card gets played more on UH?
"Roads", or "Ayn Rand?" I really need to keep score.
Wish I could have taken a picture of College St. in BVT yesterday, or hell, of I-89 North between Richmond and Williston. You can literally see grooves in the right lane of the latter, and this is in a state that taxes you 6.8% if you make $40,000 (3.55% below $37,900).
I'm done taking you seriously if you insist again that public money pays for road maintenance. Frickin' look at the actual roads.
As someone who has worked with the DOT...
Yes, public money does go into roadway maintenance. Not sure if this model is still used, but it's divided up in a few ways. At the district level for State/MassDOT (there are 6), and then there are two other funds, the Western Turnpike (WTP) and the Metropolitan Highway System (MHS). Money is also funded federally through the Federal Highway Administration (FWHA) and asset management and maintenance programs needs to meet MAP21 standards to get funding through that, too.
In a few less words, you have no idea what you're talking about.
What am I
A (expletive) liar?
Yes, I know that road repair is literally funded publicly. For Chrissakes. If that's the case, then why have I seen this aforementioned groove for several years now?
Parse the difference between "public money is allocated for road maintenance" and "public money is actually spent on tangible road maintenance" and then rejoin the discussion.
Are you talking about the rumble strip?
...?
(headdesk)
The rumble strip is not in the right lane, or in any lane. These are grooves worn into the road by cars driving over them repeatedly.
I was just making sure, bud.
Clearly it's not a priority for Vermont. Most things in the public sector get addressed because some concerned citizen speaks up. Not sure how you'd go about doing it in Vermont since we're residents of MA, but I'd hardly start the tantrum you're throwing over it. That's just me, though.
The problem is the roads are
The problem is the roads are in the same condition as they were 10 years ago. You can't drive half of a mile without hitting a pothole. This increase would not be a problem if there was evidence to support that they are in fact going to clean up the roads. There is just no possible way of knowing what exactly are they going to do with the money. Parking on city streets is definitely a right not a privilege. Not everyone owns a home with a driveway or garage. Where should millions of people park? Please let me know if you have a few extra spaces in your drive way.
Because...
Because that's the way taxes work. You should know this.
People without cars still benefit
Even if you do not own a car you benefit from functioning roadways. A few examples, How do you think your groceries and basically anything else you purchase get to the store? Your mail to your doorstep? A heart attack victim to the emergency room? The firetrucks to a burning house? The police to a crime scene? People who think because they don't own a car means they shouldn't have to pay taxes to maintain and expand roadways need to expand their thinking as to what roadways are used for.
Would you feel the same way
Would you feel the same way if the T fined you if you didn't swipe your pass properly and the turnstile buzzed?
So far all the whiny comments
So far all the whiny comments are from car haters. I wonder why that is?
Well Will is whining
per usual, but he's definitely not a "car hater."
What's the opposite of whining
In this scenario?
I'm not going to
argue ideology with you. We have different views on the role of government.
With regard to this specific issue, I'm supportive of raising the fines. I hear your argument as far as regressiveness, but we need some cracking down on parking violations in Boston. Increasing fines will motivate people who violate the law to stop doing that.
The money will be going to things I support, like improved bus service and pedestrian/bike infrastructure. I don't agree with the raises that you cited in another comment, but unfortunately I can't do anything about that.
Sure you can
Vote against the councilors who voted in favor of the raise. Are you under 18 or a convicted felon?
Also
It's not about ideology, it's about your understanding (or lack thereof) of incentives.
If I don't pay these new increased fines, eventually, I'll have a gun pointed at me for operating a motor vehicle. Ipso facto, government has no incentive to spend the money it collects now efficiently, because it can just take more from you at eventual gunpoint to cover whatever spending it deems prudent.
I spent 13 years in schools, and that notion was not uttered to me by a teacher once. Funny how that works when the state is the one sponsoring the place.
I'll believe the improved bus
I'll believe the improved bus service promise when I see a bus get a green light at D Street, or some repainting of the bus lane markings on Essex Street. Until then, it's all just talk.
this city is so stupid
Why is double parking such a small fine? Is that why double parking is essentially unenforced?
This sends an idiotic message. Ticket for a No Parking or No Stopping/Standing zone? That's twice as much as parking in the middle of the street, so go ahead just park in the middle of the street.
If you leave your car in the
If you leave your car in the middle of the street, you're definitely going to get towed, and you may get a ticket, as well. The tow fees are significantly higher than any ticket fee.
You may get towed in the other instances as well, but it is much more unlikely.
Not on Columbus Ave on a
Not on Columbus Ave on a Sunday.
Don't forget
Your City Council voted itself a raise. Have you gotten a raise at your job?
Let's maybe get that voter turnout up past 35% next time, huh? Walk your lazy ass into a voting booth.
Meaningless increases
If BPD and BTD continue their history of not enforcing blatant parking violations.
Yep!
EOM.
Not sure where you are, but
Not sure where you are, but in the past year I've gotten a permit only violation in a non-permit zone (clearly marked by signage), an over time limit ticket when I moved to a different street after one hour, and once parked at a broken meter, it was fixed during my stay and a ticket immediately issued.
Other than double parking, I see far more examples of excessive (and even erroneous) enforcement than I see people breaking the rules and getting away with it.
I'm usually on Comm Ave. when I see this
Car after car after car double parked in clearly marked bike lanes, bus stops or fire hydrants. Countless time I've seen BTD/BPD cruise by without doing a thing about it. This isn't just a safety issue for cyclists, this also delays emergency vehicle responses, apparently something to be selectively outraged about.
The problem, beyond erroneous ticketing which is obviously not ok, is that they do not do anything about things directly related to safety issues but have no problems tagging meter violations or cars without permits when I've observed it downtown or around Brighton.
What part of Boston do you
What part of Boston do you see this in? Our neighborhood tickets for parking violations / tows for street cleaning, (though I realize this will no longer be the case), all of the time and have for the past 12 or so years that I've lived here. The worst double-parking offenders I observe are uber and lyft drivers... unfortunately they get away with it because they're double-parked for only a few minutes at a time.
Previous Ticket
When i first moved to Boston back in 2015 i got a $90 ticket for parking in street sweeping but my car was not towed...... had they already been applying this structure? anyone else experience something similar??
I only play an Internet
I only play an Internet lawyer on TV, but doesn't state law limit Boston's parking fines to $50 except for hydrants, bus stops, and handicapped spaces?
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Sect...
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleVII/Chapter40/Sect...