By adamg on Thu., 4/11/2019 - 1:21 pm
On strike on Truman Parkway in Hyde Park.
At 1 p.m., the United Food & Commercial Workers declared a strike against Stop & Shop across New England. As workers walked out of stores, managers, with nobody left to do any work except for Marty the Spill Finding Robot, shut the stores and associated gas stations.
Announcing the strike:
On strike in Dedham:
Topics:
Free tagging:
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Comments
Solidarity.
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:02pm
Solidarity.
Yep
By Oscar Worthy
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:10pm
I'll get my raisin bran elsewhere til this is resolved.
I already get my raisins and bran elsewhere.
By jmeltzer
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 4:31pm
At stores with reasonable prices.
Have you reviewed the offers?
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 10:23pm
Have you reviewed the offers? Do you pay 8.6% of the cost of your health insurance?
The real minimum wage
By Jon Carry
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:28pm
When you demand more than you are worth you will either get fired or the company goes under and you get laid off. The real minimum wage is zero.
Nah not really
By spin_o_rama
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:43pm
But go off
not when labor organizes it
By labor man
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:44pm
not when labor organizes it isn't
Yes, because why should
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:54pm
Yes, because why should people make a decent living wage with benefits? Thank the unions for the rights that you have in the workplace now. When unions are strong so is the middle class. But you do you.
But if you collectively bargain for higher wages...
By fungwah
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:57pm
You might find that you're actually worth more to the company than they're currently paying you and they're actually able to pay you more for the work you do, just unwilling without that leverage.
It's the opposite
By Terrapin
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 3:48pm
If you collectively bargain you will be paid what the company contracts with the union to pay for the average value of your coworkers in your union. So, if you are an employee of above average value you will be paid less than you otherwise would. Plus Big Lou will take his union dues out of your check to pay for his "expenses" in representing you.
If you feel you have value you should want to be a free agent. With the employee protections in current law there is no need for someone with skills to offer to join a union unless you just want to be able to avoid drug testing or produce less than you otherwise could.
But it's OK because all of these employees will be replaced by robots within the next decade or so. They better grab what they can now. I'll go to Star Market and help speed the process.
You're post is so full on
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 3:54pm
You're post is so full on inaccuracies it's comical. But hey, keep hating organized labor. See how well you are valued as an employee when organized labor is gone. I'll give you a hint, not much. And stop and shops plan is to become a fully automated store. Do you think you'll be seeing lower prices and stop and shop? Yeah right!
Robots can’t do everything!
By Kay logic
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 5:18am
Robots can’t do everything! They still need people.
Lots of assumptions there
By fungwah
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 4:11pm
But I'll start with one - companies don't pay people what they're worth, they pay people the smallest amount they can in order to keep them working. Ideally in a perfect market these would be the same; but in a world where large corporations have outsize power vs individuals and it's not always possible even for an above average employee to easily find work elsewhere instantaneously, collective bargaining is one of the best ways employees of all levels have of exerting pressure on companies to increase that "smallest amount", which benefits everyone.
I'm sorry for many of you
By Terrapin
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 10:32pm
But you seem to have absolutely no understanding of economics. Yes, it is called the dismal science for a reason but it is not that which you have issue.
These anti-capitalist statements have been absolutely wrong. Yes, I understand you all have a political motive to make your statements, but they have no truth in terms of economics. Companies cannot act as you say and continue in business for long. There is a true market for labor and actually it currently is in favor of the employee, not the employer.
You all can say what you want but the statements being posted about capitalism and corporate profits are wrong. I can't provide an education in macroeconomics in blog post but I suggest you all look into one. Collectivism through politics is not a way to avoid the laws of economics no matter how much you may hate it. Good luck in life if you think collectivism will make you free.
I agree education is needed - you should read up on labor laws
By fungwah
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 9:24am
Pot calling kettle black
By habeasdorkus
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 4:41pm
Probably shouldn't be talking about other people's knowledge of economics when you aren't showing you ever took anything more than micro 101. A lot of your statements aren't actually backed up all that well by the empirical research.
So, if you are an employee of
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 4:21pm
So, if you are an employee of above average value you will be paid less than you otherwise would.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahah do you even capitalism, dude
the idea people get paid what they deserve hasn't been true since... idk, the industrial revolution?
and I quote
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 7:00pm
.....
....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Which ones, exactly???
The few that are still left?
OK
By Terrapin
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 10:34pm
I'm not sure what your point is, but you certainly can type HAHA as well as my kids did when they were preschoolers. Well done. Enjoy life in your group home.
Wow dude
By lbb
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 10:28am
You certainly are above it all and beside the point.
Enjoy your sabbatical at the Sorbonne.
you knew exactly what my point was
By anon
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 1:51pm
which is why you chose to ignore it.
I specifically asked which "worker protections" you were referring to.
because our laws have been absolutely gutted over the past 40 years.
the notion that "but the law exists and is just fine as it is to protect workers" is an old capitalist-neoliberal line thats been used to marginalize unions and workplace democracy for a long, long time.
even though it's not true.
Greetings from the Group Home!
It's nice here. It's almost lunchtime, I'll get some soup.
If you think any worker is
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 3:29pm
If you think any worker is being paid what they are worth, then you don't understand the basic premise of capitalism. Capitalism only functions if people are paid less than the value of what they produce. The company would not profit otherwise. It is, by definition, an exploitative system.
I'm assuming you're using satire
By Terrapin
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 3:50pm
If not this is the most idiotic analysis I've seen on UHub.
Can you point out where I'm
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 3:57pm
Can you point out where I'm incorrect or is an ad-hominem attack your only response?
Yup
By Stevil
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 9:08pm
Because without profits and growing profits, your company ceases to exist. And so does your job.
If you don't get that - you've obviously never managed a business.
Don't know enough about pay scales at Stop and Shop - so possible they could have a beef. But a company has to make profits and if you don't grow those profits - it's only a matter of time before the financial grim reaper lops off your overhead.
Yes, I understand all of this
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 9:20pm
Yes, I understand all of this. My point is that under capitalism, those profits go to executives and shareholders instead of the workers who actually created them.
???
By Stevil
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 10:19pm
Without the capital of the shareholders (i.e. - owners) there would be no company to begin with. Would you invest in a company or even lend to a company that gave all its profits to workers? How does the company buy inventory, build new stores, invest in technology and so on without that capital? And what happens if you have a bad year - just tell your lenders oops?
And the managers are employees too. Part of the benefit of moving up the corporate ladder is you share in a piece of the profits. They don't get any of the profits unless they produce (if the comp system is properly structured - whole separate discussion). And if they don't produce, they get the boot and if they don't produce for a long time, everyone gets the boot.
Capitalism is the worst system possible. Except for all the other systems. I don't see too many people fleeing the country to live under those systems. Quite the contrary. We literally have people camping on our doorstep waiting to get in and I'd bet all of them would take those jobs at Stop and Shop in a heartbeat.
I'm all ears if you have another solution, but I can't even imagine what that is.
I'm all ears if you have
By ZachAndTired
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 5:28am
Three words: worker owned co-ops. We need democracy in the workplace.
Have at it
By Stevil
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 8:29am
The problem is capital - that's a necessary component. How do organizations like this raise money? Especially if you want to scale the operation for efficiencies and lower costs.
They're doing it all the time, Stevil
By lbb
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 10:39am
Do some googling. Worker-owned cooperatives are finding ways to do it. Look at what's going on in Milwaukee and Cleveland, for example.
Plus, your "capital" argument fails because the contemporary executive class hasn't made capital investments either. They've benefited from government giveaways and inherited wealth. And when they get yet another break, like the 2017 tax "reform", they don't reinvest it in the business, they give it to themselves and to shareholders.
The thing that breaks people's brains on this subject is the unspoken assumption about why a business exists. We assume it exists to make profits, but that's really limited thinking. Businesses provide needed goods and services to communities, partnerships with other businesses, and a living to their employees. And when they start to fail in any of those -- which we have been seeing in the US for a long time, and it's really coming to the point where it can't be ignored -- you have to question whether the whole business model is worth anything.
yes
By anon
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 1:58pm
man I love it when people treat the economy like the weather. "it just is what it is, theres nothing else and all we can do is predict it"
it's not some predetermined force of nature, its an invention of human beings, it is filled with failures just like human beings are and can be changed to anything else if we want it.
to the on-the-nose points above, I'll add worker coops are present around the world, please look to the example of Argentina, where, when the neoliberal economy collapsed in 2001, workers took over factories after the capitalists quite literally took all their cash out of the country in the middle of the night and shut everything down. the work continued in spite of the capitalists, not thanks to them.
You lost me...
By Stevil
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 10:37pm
...at Argentina. If that's the best you can do, you have no argument. Nice country, Buenos Aires is beautiful, but it barely functions as little more than a giant farm.
If you have a better solution, let me know. My friend is running a bootstrap startup. The employees own a big chunk of the company - and it's a brilliant idea. But if she can't raise the next round of capital, they are toast, because you can't pay anybody, their shares are worthless without capital and eventually they need to buy a pizza or something and need a real paycheck.
how is it irrelevant?
By anon
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 12:18pm
and if you think Argentina is "little more than a giant farm," well, you're letting your ignorance show.
there are plenty more examples of worker coops around the world, and in the united states, if that will suit your american exceptionalism a little better.
additionally
By anon
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 3:12pm
kickstarter! patreon! the classic "capitalists put in money, labor puts in labor, everyone benefits" has been SO broken and SO untrue for SO LONG that we now have entire economies sprouting up around "labor collectively provides money, labor puts in labor, everyone benefits while capitalists continue to rewrite laws and not pay their taxes and treat cash like it's points on a video game and they need the high score"
That's nice
By Stevil
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 10:41am
I work for an employee owned biz (me and my wife). But it's small and will stay small by design. Our business exists for all the reasons you mention and not really to "make profit" - our profit is our income. But we're not going to take on Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs any time soon. sons you mention.
If they can make it work, good for them. But without capital, very hard to scale. Depends on the business. Dirty Water pizza was/is worker owned after the break up. Don't see that going very far. Not saying you can't do it, just not likely to ever be very big especially in a capital intensive biz.
As for your second paragraph, do some googling yourself. Cap-ex has indeed expanded significantly - just not as much as the Republicans hoped. But it's definitely up. And your point about inherited wealth is WAY off base. Very few Americans are wealthy due to inherited wealth (depending a bit on your definition of wealthy.
Who said anything about ALL
By anon
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 7:34am
Who said anything about ALL PROFITS? Workers here just want a decent wage and some benefits, much like you enjoy. Stop and shop can definitely afford this. No one is trying to destroy the company.
I enjoy
By Stevil
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 10:53am
You do realize I work for myself (as noted above in an employee owned biz that I own). Anything I "enjoy" including paying tens of thousands of dollars in rent, health care, government fees and more a year, comes directly out of my pocket.
Do me a favor - go pull Stop and shop's financials and show me that they can "afford" this. Maybe they can. I don't know. But before pulling numbers from thin air - prove it. Grocery margins are notoriously thin and they are competing with the likes of Walmart and Amazon and my local favorite when I can get there market basket. Go get their numbers and come back with a proper analysis.
Broken out by country
By E
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 2:49pm
https://www.aholddelhaize.com/media/8807/ahold-del...
Ahold Delhaize breaks out the financials by country. The summary report (link above) has some information regarding S&S (pages 2 and 3).
So.....
By Stevil
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 3:10pm
Perhaps anon above wants to explain how a biz with about 7% margins (measured by EBITDA) and 4% operating margin can dramatically increase wages in a business with competitors pounding out price reductions like Amazon and Walmart?.
How do you know S&S can afford it?
By merlinmurph
Sat, 04/13/2019 - 11:06am
Yes, I understand the parent company made $2 billion last year (I haven't verified it), but S&S needs to stand on its own. Do we know the numbers for S&S?
yes
By wokers will win
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 7:33am
they are right, workers produce the value of a good through their labor. At every stage from extraction to distribution, it is workers who do the actual work. To the worker go the spoils.
The first cut
By Jon Carry
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 7:57pm
"No one is paid what they are worth" is Marxist dribble. But let's use your dribble as it is illustrative. No one goes to a supermarket just to pay high prices. People shop around for lower prices. So you could argue that corporations aren't paid what they are worth either.
...
By anon
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 8:12pm
How so?
Show your work.
So you're arguing that
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 8:12pm
So you're arguing that consumers are exploiting corporations by paying the prices that they're asking for? This isn't a valid comparison at all, but let's put that aside for a second. Corporations aren't people. They're not even sentient beings. Do you really care if a corporation is being exploited (which, again, they aren't)?
Mom and pop grocery stores, then
By Roman
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 8:39pm
Five of them within walking distance of each other. Only game in a one horse town. Whose fault is it then that they can't charge $8 for a pint of milk?
Oh boy, I knew it was only a
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 8:44pm
Oh boy, I knew it was only a matter of time until your dumb ass showed up. Care to move the goalposts any further?
Typical socialist
By Roman
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 1:16pm
world view demolished with a single pointed question...doubles down on insults.
Back to the point at hand comrade: if capitalism is theft from the worker, how is it not theft from the employer too?
Because the employers are the
By ZachAndTired
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 2:30pm
Because the employers are the ones committing the theft, you obtuse asshole! Are you arguing that employers and employees are somehow stealing back and forth from each other like some weird game of hot potato? Your question was neither pointed nor did it result in the demolition of my worldview. It was asinine and completely unrelated to anything I had said, so I didn't answer it. I resorted to insults because you are a moron who never makes arguments in good faith, so you're not worth engaging with. It has nothing to do with my political leanings. Please fuck off.
dude I kind of have a crush
By anon
Fri, 04/12/2019 - 3:17pm
dude I kind of have a crush on you for that
Striking from a low skilled job is dangerous.
By StillFromDorchester
Thu, 04/11/2019 - 2:42pm
I hope they work it out.
I shop at the Stop and Shop on Freeport St. and I will continue to.
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