Dr. Stephen Dorner, an emergency-room doctor at Mass. General, posts video taken by an MGH physician's assistant, on her way home after an overnight shift caring for Covid-19 patients, who asked a woman on the Orange Line to pull up her mask.
Of course, it didn't end there:
This passenger not only got in another passenger’s face while unmasked, but then followed this PA through the station where she got off, continuing to scream at and taunt her. @MBTA what are you doing to keep the public safe? This is completely unacceptable.
Violence against healthcare workers is at an all time high. We put our lives on the line caring for patients in this deadly pandemic. We should expect to have the ability to get home safely.
Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
Ad:
Comments
The offender's face...
By lbb
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 9:47am
...will be on a lot of cameras, I'm guessing.
What a completely
By Michael
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 9:51am
inevitable and foreseeable event, when the authorities declare a mandate with no plan or hope of enforcement beyond whether an exhausted bus driver or supermarket clerk decides it's worth the aggravation and the possible violence to remind you of the policy.
Grossly misplaced blame
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 11:55am
What the hell is wrong with people that we (a) need a mandate to do an obviously decent and compassionate thing for our neighbors that costs us pretty much nothing, and (b) need the threat of force to enforce such a mandate.
We claim to be a civilization, not a pack of god damned savages.
Exactly
By Will LaTulippe
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:20pm
This (expletive) doesn't own the train, and was asked to wear a mask on the train, thus, you wear the (expletive) mask.
"Mask debate" is a fallacious premise. Walk to (expletive) JP if you have a problem with that, (expletive). Better yet, just never leave your shelter. Microhousing and UBI now. Both would fix so many problems.
The response by the MBTA
By anon (not verified)
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 10:01am
We cannot ensure your safety while underground on the MBTA as our heroic police officers are too busy writing parking tickets and traffic citations above ground. So far we have not issued one citation for failing to wear a mask while travelling underground on the MBTA.
I would have kept away from her
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 10:13am
Filming her was an aggressive move.
She knows nothing about that woman or her medical and mental history.
Asking where the woman worked looked like a threat.
By Joe B (not verified)
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 10:27am
Seems the woman recording wanted to find out where this woman worked. Why? So she could share the video and have people call the employer demanding this person being recorded lose their job?
Not having a mask on at all times...
By StillFromDorchester
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 11:20am
Is now enough to be shamed, regardless of any risk. If your mask is not on all the time are you 100 percent going to infect everyone in your vicinity.?
Maks and Vaccines are absolutely the smart thing to do but we go overboard, at the airport they have people in line stand 6 feet apart and then everyone gets on an airplane and sits inches from each other.
The train wasn't packed and in my eyes this woman posed no risk if you just stayed away from her. The person filming just felt like publicly shaming her in my opinion.
That's not really how the rule of law works
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 1:21pm
We have a process, in which we all have the right to participate. We decided to pool our money and buy something that we can all share (trains). We decided what the rules were going to be while using that thing we bought for ourselves (e.g., no spilling food and drink; no fouling the air with smoke; no playing loud music; no spitting, pissing, or shitting in the train; wear masks during respiratory pandemics, etc.)
You might personally agree with or disagree with any of these rules that we all worked out through a valid democratic process. They are certainly not infallible... you could argue that a given rule is excessively restrictive, or doesn't accomplish its intended purpose, that its costs outweigh its benefits, or make any of a number of other arguments.
But the time for making any of those arguments was when the rules were being established, not when you personally board the train. What you don't get to do is to unilaterally decide that a given rule doesn't apply to you.
She broke no "law"
By StillFromDorchester
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 2:07pm
She pulled her mask down.
Shhhh
By John Costello
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 2:31pm
You are ruining the narrative that most are following.
See some people don't know the difference between an advisory and a law.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-mask-re...).
So therefore, you are correct. No law was broken.
A law was (kind of) broken
By Waquiot
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 2:57pm
Specifically, 42 USC 264, which allows the CDC to impose remedies to prevent the spread of communicable diseases through regulations (42 CFR 71.32) The current order was issued through Executive Order 13998.
That said, no punishment for noncompliance is mentioned.
You're getting perilously close...
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 10:53pm
... to sovereign citizen bullshit there.
The law delegates to the T the authority to make rules. While you are correct that those rules are not laws, that's a technicality, a distinction without much difference, in that remaining on T property while breaking the T's rules constitutes trespassing, which is in fact a violation of the law.
You are not as wrong as he is, but still wrong
By Waquiot
Thu, 12/30/2021 - 10:41pm
But the CDC did not give the T authority to make rules. They (or in reality the President) mandated the wearing of masks. Now, how airports, commercial aircraft, passenger railroads, public maritime vessels including ferries, intercity buses, and all forms of public transportation carry out the mandate is another issue. My gut is that they can remove those who refuse to comply from the modes of transportation and perhaps bar those who are non compliant from utilizing the services, but it's not like the T are empowered to arrest those who are not wearing masks.
FTA amended their master agreement
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 12/31/2021 - 10:17am
FTA issued an amendment to its Master Agreement to incorporate the requirements of the CDC mask order. FTA’s Master Agreement contains the standard terms and conditions that apply to every grant, cooperative agreement, and loan authorized by federal public transportation law or administered by FTA. The amendment includes enforcement actions FTA may take for non-compliance.
False
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 3:23pm
The scare quotes don't help you here. Yes, neither MBTA rules nor CDC orders are technically laws themselves, but the law delegates to the MBTA and to the CDC the authority to make rules and issue public health orders, which then carry the force and effects of laws.
If The T Orders You To Wear A Poodle Skirt
By John Costello
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 3:26pm
Will you do that too?
Because, you know, they ordered you too. Right?
I mean it really isn't a law, but you submitted to the diktat, right?
I try to avoid skirts on the T
By StillFromDorchester
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 3:38pm
You might end up with some dude waxing his
shelaleigh in front of you because a little leg is exposed. :0
That's really a stupid hypothetical.
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 10:56pm
That's a stupid hypothetical. In part because the rule-making process is multi-stakeholder, broadly participatory, and inherently biased away from making ridiculous rules that will not enjoy broad support.
If the T made wearing poodle skirts a condition of riding, I'd probably choose not to ride, while also lobbying my state government to wise the fuck up.
This Is High Comedy
By John Costello
Thu, 12/30/2021 - 8:12am
All the people on UHub who yell out "Bootlicker" for anything to do with law enforcement all of suddenly turn into Dirty Harry meets Edward Exley meets Laurence Tribe when someone on a train pulls down her mask.
There were what 12 or 13 people in a 600 square foot space and this person is 10x more evil than the kids who beat the crap out of old person at Andrew the other night.
If this person was in a 600 square foot restaurant with 12 or 13 people sipping a beer, no one would say anything.
You people are daft. Go for a walk. A long walk.
For Chrissakes
By Will LaTulippe
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 2:48pm
The MBTA doesn't have a monopoly on this person's movement. I don't love government, but they only run the trains. They don't own Uber or Lyft or bicycles or this (expletive's) legs.
The train is the property of the MBTA. The MBTA asked them to wear a mask on their property. I don't even need to make it a legal argument, it's a (expletive) moral one. The train isn't theirs, and they were asked nicely. (Expletive) off. I'm capable of wearing my mask when asked. Why isn't this person?
Yes, safety is important
By Keiko
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 11:28am
But not wearing a mask is an aggressive move too. As is double and triple parking. Yelling at and threatening someone who is just doing their job. Bullies getting what they want is why they're increasing.
Sometimes you need to stand up for yourself or for what is right.
What if....
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 11:59am
That woman has had the vaccine and a booster and tested negative the day before and also has COPD? And was trying to breathe? What if shes mentally unstable?
I would just keep away and reduce my risk.
A lot of assumptions I know, but so is filming her without knowing anything.
What if, indeed
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:00pm
She's still required to wear a mask on the T.
Then the T is not a safe place for her to be and she should not be there.
If her mental instability poses a risk to herself of to others, then she does not belong on the T.
If her mental instability....
By John Costello
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:08pm
So you support testing all T passengers for their own safety?
Got it.
Not at all
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:32pm
No, I support people who are unable or unwilling to behave in reasonably civilized ways keeping themselves off the T or being kept off the T.
There's no "testing" involved other than the same testing that applies to any other behavior: if you are duly convicted of assault, you get a time out.
What About People Walking Down The Street?
By John Costello
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:39pm
It appears you support a mental "stop and frisk" policy to check people's behaviors.
The T is a public space no more different than walking down Columbus Avenue.
You appear to be supporting China's Social Credit System.
Get me a rulebook when you get a chance so I can comply to your mores.
Stop it.
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:00pm
You're arguing disingenuously. I clearly stated that I support no such thing.
And we have laws governing behavior walking down Columbus Avenue. For example, the law making assault a crime. And other, slightly more restrictive laws governing behavior on the T (for example, you can smoke a cigarette on Columbus Avenue but not on the T.)
Stop arguing disingenuously. I support no such thing.
Here you go: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws
No You Stop It.
By John Costello
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 2:04pm
You said above you are for testing people to see if they are mentally able to take the T.
"If her mental instability poses a risk to herself of to others, then she does not belong on the T."
You said it. You did. OK Cop.
Here is a link for a selection of boat oars so you can row your statement back:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=boat+oars&crid=3QK3WBFL...
Show me again?
By Bob Leponge
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 2:12pm
Show me again where I got within 100 miles of supporting preemptive testing, or testing of any kind?
if you are allowed to keep posting without a mental test...
By cinnamngrl
Thu, 12/30/2021 - 12:47pm
Actually, people are given a no trespass directive on the T every day. Using public transportation is not actually an entitlement. Testing everybody everywhere would actually help us end this pandemic, but it is not feasible.
C'mon, John
By merlinmurph
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 2:59pm
Hey John, take a step back and read the thread again. You should find you're being unreasonable here.
Apparently you don't ride the
By anon (not verified)
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:12pm
Apparently you don't ride the t.
I have breathing issues I'm fully vaccinated someone gets in my face and records me for pulling down my face mask on anything mbta related that isn't packed in like a sardine can then yeah I'm gonna pull it down so shut the. Fuck up
People with COPD or mental health issues need to get places.
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:40pm
I stand by my assertion that filming her was an aggressive act.
Just like you're required to wear a mask you're required to keep your dog on a leash,
I saw a guy at the park with his dog not leashed , I could have filmed him and made a scene, but I chose to mind my business for safety's sake.. I doubt he would have punched a woman in the face for filming him ,
but why risk it?
No
By lbb
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 12:51pm
It was not.
Not everybody gets to "get places" in the manner of their choosing. Can't refrain from driving drunk? Then you shouldn't be able to drive. Can't comply with simple rules like wearing a mask, occupying not more than one seat, not smoking and not threatening other passengers? Then you shouldn't be able to use pubic transit.
That's your choice and your judgment; it's not a requirement.
It's very simple: you may not do things that risk harm to others. It doesn't matter if you "know better" - you don't get to give someone else's heart a workout wondering if you are a nice fully vaxxed fully boosted person with COPD or a mental health issue.
I made assumptions
By StillFromDorchester
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:11pm
Just like the person filming her, if she was vaccinated and tested negative for covid she was no risk, filming a stranger on the T just sitting there is a risk..and she chose to film her. I originally said what I WOULD HAVE DONE.
Of course no one in this thread knows anything about the woman and I'm positive the person who pointed her phone at her also knew nothing, except her mask was down.
Do they need to know more?
By lbb
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:26pm
Do they need to know more?
This isn't an abstract philosophical debate. This is public behavior impacting others.
Life is not measured in absolutes
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 1:25pm
That's not true. What is true is that if she was vaccinated and tested negative for covid she was much lower risk than an unvaccinated and/or untested person would be. "much lower" and "no" aren't the same thing.
COPD doesn’t prevent anyone from wearing a mask …
By Lee
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:04pm
…
Exactly!
By JPMom
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 2:43pm
Thank you, Lee, for making this obvious point. Masks do not obstruct breathing. If you don't believe me, test your O2 sats with a pulse oximeter with and without a mask on.
Video-recording from ~12 feet
By Rob
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 1:46pm
Video-recording from ~12 feet away is not aggressive.
Going up to the person and yelling at them would be aggressive.
Let's try not thinking in such binaries
By eeka
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 3:08pm
Of course people with psychiatric disabilities are permitted to use the T. That's like 10% of the population. Most of these folks are causing absolutely no harm to anyone.
People who get up in people's faces and threaten bodily harm are not permitted to do that anywhere. There are laws about that sort of thing. People don't get to do that regardless of any supposed reason. People who are in fact completely unable to respect others' bodily integrity live in heavily staffed facilities and have multiple escorts when they need to get places.
Exactly right
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 1:25pm
It's about the behavior, not the diagnosis.
Fuck off
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 5:47pm
You are NOT a doctor. You are NOT a public health expert. You are not engaged with the disability or mental health communities.
Stop making excuses for stupid violent assholes like yourself and grow the fuck up.
Stay the fuck at home if you are too fucking much of a little snowflake to cover your fucking face.
Fucking get that?
Fuck Off?
By StillFromDorchester
Thu, 12/30/2021 - 1:24pm
Wow.
Accountability is the difference
By DotYourEyes
Wed, 12/29/2021 - 8:38am
There was no immediate intervention by law enforcement, so it would be an investigation if anything upon complaint.
The nurse gathered and shared the evidence.
If you want people held accountable for their actions, the best thing you can do is make it easy for police to do their job.
COPD
By Lisfnord
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 5:48pm
What if she has COPD. Well, I have a respiratory disease, and in fact don't have 2 complete lungs anymore, and I can breathe just fine through a mask. If your breathing is so labored or so impaired that a mask is actually a problem, you should probably be on oxygen. Which this woman wasn't.
Being an asshole
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 5:44pm
Is an aggressive move.
Pull your head out of your copspace = video is NOT a weapon, honey.
Dorchester upbringing
By Ellen (not verified)
Tue, 12/28/2021 - 6:10pm
Walk away from trouble. Move to the other end of the train. Don’t make eye contact. Never ever say anything to anyone.
What trouble
By StillFromDorchester
Sat, 01/01/2022 - 2:24pm
A woman with her mask pulled down? If she was sipping a coffee it would be fine but since she wasn't the person felt the need to Video her and take a risk of starting trouble, when she could just move away If she felt like she was going to catch something..
She felt like publicly shaming her.
Pages
Add comment