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Apartments proposed for parking lot behind the Morrissey Boulevard Super Cuts
By adamg on Sun, 10/30/2022 - 8:49pm
Rendering by Embarc.
City Realty of Brookline has proposed replacing a rental-car parking lot with a five-story, 52-unit apartment building at 13 Norwood St., between the Red Line/commuter-rail tracks and the Morrissey Boulevard building that houses Super Cuts and where Boston Market used to be.
In a filing with the BPDA, City Realty also proposes 50 parking spaces.
The units would be split between studios and 1- and 2-bedroom units, with seven apartments rented as affordable.
The company hopes to begin roughly 18 months of construction on the $18.9-million project in the third quarter of 2023.
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Comments
three-tone box
Tan -gray-white. How much of recent construction has similar design and color scheme?
Would prefer the turquoise panels of Mid-Century Modern
Building construction
Multi unit clones of this building are appearing all over the place lately. They go up very quickly, and they look pretty nice initially, but I seriously wonder the quality of construction and their potential lifespan.
To be honest these new
To be honest these new apartment buildings just like condo's and townhouses are cheaply made which means these buildings will only last 30 years. Triple Deckers are built strong with red cedar wood which is why they are over 140 years old.
Can't speak to the longevity
Can't speak to the longevity of these buildings, but triple deckers catch fire all the time, are packed full of lead paint, and often overcrowded.
Affordable housing has to be built affordably so it's not gonna look especially dazzling or unique
2 parking spots
shy of the total amount of units.
Location
Requires a car.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
You can't say that.
All renters are able bodied 26 year olds with degrees in urban planning who bike everywhere.
Therefore no one needs a parking space per a lot of commentators here.
For any of you ritually cutting themselves because there is going to be parking here, as someone who grew up in the area, Fields Corner and North Quincy are 25 to 30 minute walks and the service on the 20 is slow. If there was any place in the city that you might need a car, this is it.
You are getting housing where there was a parking lot. There has never been housing on this site. For those of you who love to bike, the Neponset Trail is nearby and you can bike on the Morrissey Blvd. sidewalks. No one is going to stop you.
Win win.
yes, John is right about something.
But as biking person that lives nearby, we need to change the bus route. There are several new buildings going up on this side of Morrisey Blvd. The 210, 202, and the 201 are a couple blocks away, but this is a busy urban highway. There needs to be at least one if not two more pedestrian walkways. The bus already diverts to pass by the CVS and Stop & Shop during the daytime.
Infill Stations
The T should look at an infill station or two along that stretch of the Red Line. That would make car-free and car-light living in the area much more feasible, and new above-ground stations aren't especially expensive, compared to other capital projects.
Got an extra trillion
Sitting around? When it comes to MBTA there's so much grift and corruption it costs seven figures to paint a bench, imagine how much it would cost to build a new station.
ok John Costello. Tons of
ok John Costello. Tons of seniors and disabled people use e-scooters and bicycles to get around, but you're convinced it's only all the cool young men you're threatened by who ride bikes.
Transit riders and cyclists are sick of getting scraps while our tax dollars go to subsidizing people who refuse to travel outside of their air conditioned luxury boxes. Drivers get enough hand-outs as it is. Free roads, free+cheap parking everywhere, polluting our air and waterways, and 40 thousand deaths from traffic violence every year but sure, it's those young brats on bicycles who are the nuisance.
Broken Clock...
No argument, it's a transit desert, nobody who can afford market rate is going to live there without a car. The MBTA should be looking at a Neponset infill station on the Braintree line, but they aren't and probably won't. If they had built a station there, then you might expect a lot of us pro-bike, pro-transit folks to play to the stereotype you've built in your mind. But unlike the car maniacs, the rest of us actually look at local conditions regarding such questions.
This area needs a Red Line stop
The train goes right by here to Quincy without stopping.
Where?
There are a lot of logistics involved in putting a stop somewhere along this stretch.
First, the commuter rail is on the westerly side of the tracks, not the Morrissey Boulevard side.
A Red Line station would have to be on the easterly side of the tracks (the water side).
That means getting rid of local businesses and / or houses.
Track design. I know the Red Line is slow here but it was built for 55 MPH. You have to able to give trains enough room to slow down coming down off of the bridge.
Ridership - A train station here would make Shawmut look like Grand Central. The population is only sort of there.
The area's populace. The area is filled with Erin Murphy supporters and people who don't think cops are the Waffen SS. Why should they get any transportation? (Snark).
Also, wetlands - Most of this neighborhood is built on fill. The Back Bay is on fill but there were seawalls holding the tide back. They are not here. The center of the ice at the old Neponset rink used to go down at low tide. This would be an engineering challenge.
Thankfully, the snobbery that kept a Neponset station from being built in the early 70's from Quincy (Ha!) and Braintree has gone away.
Put it inside the rotary
near Phillips Chocolate and Boston Bowl. I doubt many people use the current green space there. There is no need to remove any homes or businesses.
No
Put it on the one place that is the most inaccessible spot along the whole line? Nah.
There is already a foot
There is already a foot bridge serving the rotary and it can be accessed by both north and south bound traffic. I've often said that location would be perfect for a T stop to serve the Port and Pope's Hill.
give an example
Is there another station above a highway?
Charles/MGH station
is over Storrow Drive
I feel naive for wondering if
I feel naive for wondering if that can't be fixed without it turning into an impossible boondoggle? And since you mentioned the defeated idea for a Neponset station, do you know if there was ever a slated spot? I'm guessing there wasn't.
???
A red line platform is what, ~600'? The station would span the entire island and have entrances on either side of Morrissey. It would be as accessible as the new Lechmere, MOS, MGH or any other elevated station in the world.
Tell Me You Don't Know The Layout There
Without telling me you don't know the layout there.
The sky bridges to get over the commuter rail tracks would have to start on Southwick Street and / or you would have to take away the playground of the Muprh. Do you want to have to say to the kids, hey you can't have a playground.
If the junkie gauntlet at Newmarket is any indication, there will be another Clifford Park situation on Pope's Hill Street and in the Victory Road ballfields right away.
On the other side of the tracks you would probably have to get rid of Lamberts. Do you know how many people get cheap, fresh fruit and veg from there? A lot. It is a lot cheaper than S&S. I know a few people who got their first jobs there when they could have taken a different path. I know people who have been in Lamberts for nearly 40 years. Do you want that to go away for a few hundred people a day?
The rippling consequences for a few hundred passengers a day would be detrimental to many.
The rotary is a terrible place for a station.
Yeah, nah
I go through there on a regular basis. What are you even talking about on the sky bridge or taking kids' playgrounds away? It would literally be a simple central platform station in the existing ROW, with entrances on either side of Morrissey (and hell, maybe one in the rotary, too). The ROW is more than big enough for stairs + an elevator like the new Lechmere station. This isn't terribly complex. The existing pedestrian bridge wouldn't be affected at all, although I suppose you could tie into it if you really wanted.
There are over 100' in the existing ROW. There is no need to touch anything outside of the ROW, full stop. Suggesting Lamberts would go is bizarre. As for ridership - well, there haven't been any actual studies but it would almost certainly be more than a couple of hundred a day even at the opening, plus we are literally talking about this in the context of the redevelopment of the entire area with high-density housing. You do realize that DCR is redesigning all of Morrissey, too, right? Might not want to check it out, the bike lanes, traffic calming, and pedestrianization of it might make you blow a gasket.
But anyways, how does that go? Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without telling me. This isn't terribly complex or complicated.
Do you mean Tenean Beach?
Its not fancy but we locals do use it.
Thanks Whitey
For burying bodies right under where we used to look for tadpoles and other mutant late 70's Boston Harbor fish.
you mean on top of Dunkin Donuts?
That isn't much space. And you would need suspend a platform above Morrisey Blvd. It takes more space than commuter rail stations. Where would the fair gate go?
Yes
There are basically two potential places to put the stop - there and further down towards port Norfolk. Prevailing wisdom and potential ridership seems to put it there in the rotary. There is more than enough room for the station. I am more concerned that DCR doesn't screw up the new Morrissey Blvd design.
i am starting to spiral on this
Do you realize that the subway is above the road? The existing foot bridge seems insufficient for a station. You would have to build a platform with a second story so that you can access both directions. Then there is the bloody history of that rotary. I mean hopefully it will be safer and slower when they redesign the boulevard.
I'll be honest
I don't really understand what you are saying here. Yeah, obviously the Red Line is elevated here. As for over a 'highway', like I said: they are redesigning all of it, and even then, if Morrissey is a 'Highway' then Lechmere/MOS or MGH are about the same (along with numerous other elevated stations). It really isn't some crazy uncommon thing, even in Boston. As for the danger - a platform is 600'+ long, there would be entrances on either side of Morrissey, possibly even on Conley depending on positioning and the ROW there. As for the footbridge, I don't really see the point, this would be completely different and a brand new station. You would only need one story - with either a center platform or side platforms and egresses for each at street level. No need for a second level, there is more than enough room in the ROW there for it. Again: no one from either side of Morrissey would need to step foot onto Morrissey to access this station.
very different
Lechmere is parallel to the main road and higher up. MGH is downtown so you can't really compare the money and effort that went into that station. This part of the subway is bare minimum height for trucks and buses. In fact, the road dips under to train bridge which already causes flooding. This rotary already has eyeline problems that have caused some deadly accidents. I don't see how you can build supports for a platform that doesn't make that worse. I will be glad if it is slowed down and narrowed but it was supposed to include a bike lane and better pedestrian access.
Very different?
I should probably just stop responding, but, what? Do you think building elevated stations is hard? There is 250' of bona fide terra firma on the existing island for support just like the current elevated structure. There is land on either side for support, just like the existing structure. Do you think you can't easily span a 40-50' roadway? Wonder how all the old El stations did it. As for height: what does that have to do with anything? They could keep the new structure the same height. Or raise it, or undercut the road a bit on the road redesign. There is no need to change it if needed. What do bike lanes have to do with anything? A station by default would also increase and make better the pedestrian experience.
Have you seen either of the entire new building complexes over the Pike in Fenway? It straddles the pike and railroad tracks - amazing. Hell, the entire Prudential center is built over the highway and railway and has a subway there to boot.
Sorry, I can get that you don't like the idea, but to argue this is some insanely challenging/impossible thing to build is ridiculous.
it would be nice but it is not possible
All of the other station you are mentioning are much higher the current height of the bridge. If you really drive through there, how can you not notice the way the road dips down under the tracks? Don't you notice foot of water you have plow through when it rains hard? The platform would have to be bigger than that narrow bridge and their would not be enough clearance around the rest of the rotary. It would need support posts and I think it would further reduce the sightlines for that road. Changing the height of the bridge is more difficult than you think. This area is important, but it is not the Fenway or Beacon Hill.
I can tell you a plan my neighbors would love. It would be to take the land from the comfort inn and ramada and build a station there. My neighbors are desperately afraid of the Pine Street taking over the Comfort Inn for Elderly housing.
Again: what?
The station would be elevated just like the current bridges. The station can be built at any height. Placing it in the rotary allows easy access from either side of Morrissey without pedestrians needing to cross it, which your idea does not have.
The ROW is over 100' wide in the rotary and even wider on the school side. A center platform station like Assembly or Lechmere requires 40-50' width at most. There is no land taking needed, there is plenty of room for a Red Line station and the Old Colony double track.
The new station can span Morrissey just like the existing bridge can without reducing site lines. This is simple engineering - I already pointed out numerous other projects that span much more complex sites. Hell, look at the skyscraper being built over the South Station. The fact that Morrissey floods has nothing to do with this station. It is elevated above the roadway. DCR's redesign of Morrissey is taking flooding and climate resilience into account, although that has nothing to do with this elevated infill station.
This is a fairly simple straightforward thing, there is nothing complex here. There is nothing difficult to understand or grasp conceptually.
ok
Please explain what you mean by "the station can be built at any height".
The mbta scrap yard
Located on Conolly Street.
The UHub bike brigade would say otherwise
Bike brigade, assemble!